The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Deadskins wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:We need a back up and a starter to play as well as Jansen and Thomas did for the firrst eight games.

Or Heyer and Thomas did, anyway.

Heyer took CoOley out of the passing game. Let's hope the replacement plays as good as Heyer and CoOley did.

I don't really agree with that piece of conventional wisdom. Yes, CC did stay in to block on occasion, but he had a franchise best 83 catches last year, so obviously he was a huge part of the passing game. And yes, I do realize that some were dump-offs after he had released a rusher, but that is a TE's primary role.

Heyer's big 'debut' was two years ago, which is why everyone was raving about him last year. Jansen played most of the year last year....Heyer didn't, which allowed ey to actually play receiving TE.

I'm well aware of Heyer's history; I watch the games with his mother. Stephon started 7 games last year to Jansen's 11, and they both needed help. My point is that CC was still a big part of the passing game, regardless of the perceptions around here. And Heyer is a better pass blocker than Jansen at this point in their careers, so if anything, CC would have needed to stay in on passing downs more when JJ was in the game than with SH.

I'm glad you watch the games with his mother, but this in no way changes what happened on the field.

So Jansen starts more games in 08 than 07, ey gets more receptions in 08 than 07, but Heyer's the better tackle. Does that sound about right?

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:We need a back up and a starter to play as well as Jansen and Thomas did for the firrst eight games.

Or Heyer and Thomas did, anyway.

Heyer took CoOley out of the passing game. Let's hope the replacement plays as good as Heyer and CoOley did.

I don't really agree with that piece of conventional wisdom. Yes, CC did stay in to block on occasion, but he had a franchise best 83 catches last year, so obviously he was a huge part of the passing game. And yes, I do realize that some were dump-offs after he had released a rusher, but that is a TE's primary role.

Heyer's big 'debut' was two years ago, which is why everyone was raving about him last year. Jansen played most of the year last year....Heyer didn't, which allowed ey to actually play receiving TE.

I'm well aware of Heyer's history; I watch the games with his mother. Stephon started 7 games last year to Jansen's 11, and they both needed help. My point is that CC was still a big part of the passing game, regardless of the perceptions around here. And Heyer is a better pass blocker than Jansen at this point in their careers, so if anything, CC would have needed to stay in on passing downs more when JJ was in the game than with SH.

<cue golfclap> I'm glad you watch the games with his mother, but this in no way changes what happened on the field.

So Jansen starts more games in 08 than 07, ey gets more receptions in 08 than 07, but Heyer's the better tackle. Does that sound about right?

07 ey 83rcp Heyer start
08 ey 66rcp Heyer start

First off, I only mentioned Heyer's mom because you seemed to be giving me a lesson in his history with the team.

Second, I never said he was the better tackle of the two. I said he was the better pass protector at this point in their careers; incidentally, the very same reason given by Zorn as to why he started the season over Jansen.

I'd just like to say this.

We're not putting Heyer, Betts and others in positions to succeed. I simply don't think most guys can play for 2 weeks, get benched and then play 4 weeks later and be at full go.

I feel that if we just settled on these guys and gave them field experience and allowed them to mature their game, they'd be alright. We can't keep yanking them at the moments notice, there will be growing pains.

We're so used to having vets who have gone thru that already come in and play well but we have to understand that if we are to grow our own talent, they have to have growing pains. Sure we're taking baby steps to change the culture here but we're still fighting it in some ways and it stunting growth.

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:We need a back up and a starter to play as well as Jansen and Thomas did for the firrst eight games.

Or Heyer and Thomas did, anyway.

Heyer started the first three games but was knocked out early against the Cardinals and couldn't win his job back because Jon played so much better. JJ may not have been better in pass pro, but he was far and away better at run blocking. Either way it was Jansen and Thomas for most of the 6-2 start!!!

Deadskins wrote:First off, I only mentioned Heyer's mom because you seemed to be giving me a lesson in his history with the team.

Second, I never said he was the better tackle of the two. I said he was the better pass protector at this point in their careers; incidentally, the very same reason given by Zorn as to why he started the season over Jansen.

Wasn't he a UDFA that played his entire college career at Left Tackle?

Didn't make the team as a backup for C. Samuels?

Wasn't that dude named Wade ahead of him at RT on the depth chart his rookie year?




If Samuels goes down and both Jansen and Heyer are backups, who will step in?

skinsfan#33 wrote:Heyer started the first three games but was knocked out early against the Cardinals and couldn't win his job back because Jon played so much better.

I wouldn't go that far.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'd just like to say this.

We're not putting Heyer, Betts and others in positions to succeed. I simply don't think most guys can play for 2 weeks, get benched and then play 4 weeks later and be at full go.

I feel that if we just settled on these guys and gave them field experience and allowed them to mature their game, they'd be alright. We can't keep yanking them at the moments notice, there will be growing pains.

We're so used to having vets who have gone thru that already come in and play well but we have to understand that if we are to grow our own talent, they have to have growing pains. Sure we're taking baby steps to change the culture here but we're still fighting it in some ways and it stunting growth.

Heyer got injured, not benched, but your point is still valid.

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Heyer started the first three games but was knocked out early against the Cardinals and couldn't win his job back because Jon played so much better.

I wouldn't go that far.

That is fine, but obviously the coaches agree with what I said, because even though JZ was itching to put Heyer back in he couldn't bacause Jon had out played him.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Heyer started the first three games but was knocked out early against the Cardinals and couldn't win his job back because Jon played so much better.

I wouldn't go that far.

That is fine, but obviously the coaches agree with what I said, because even though JZ was itching to put Heyer back in he couldn't bacause Jon had out played him.

Um no, that's not obvious at all.

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Heyer started the first three games but was knocked out early against the Cardinals and couldn't win his job back because Jon played so much better.

I wouldn't go that far.

That is fine, but obviously the coaches agree with what I said, because even though JZ was itching to put Heyer back in he couldn't bacause Jon had out played him.

Um no, that's not obvious at all.

Maybe not to you!

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Heyer started the first three games but was knocked out early against the Cardinals and couldn't win his job back because Jon played so much better.

I wouldn't go that far.

That is fine, but obviously the coaches agree with what I said...

Um no, that's not obvious at all.

Maybe not to you!

What's obvious to me is that you seem to think that Jansen played great last year. Focus on the comment of yours that I highlighted in yellow, with which you are saying the coaches obviously agree.

In order for something to be obvious it has to be readily apparent to most people. And I also didn't think it was apparent that Jansen outplayed Heyer. . .

Irn-Bru wrote:In order for something to be obvious it has to be readily apparent to most people. And I also didn't think it was apparent that Jansen outplayed Heyer. . .

And certainly not so much better.

yea, they were both equally atrocious

brad7686 wrote:yea, they were both equally atrocious

Jansen could run block, but was a virtual speed bump in pass blocking.
Heyer could pass block, but got run over in the run game.

Put together, they'd be pretty good RT. However, as they are, each has a significant defect in their game.

Deadskins wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Heyer started the first three games but was knocked out early against the Cardinals and couldn't win his job back because Jon played so much better.

I wouldn't go that far.

I would give the edge to Jon. His run blocking was way better and Heyers pass blocking really wasn't all that great just better than Jons. They both were a problem and the reason Jon wasn't taken out was because our strength was running the ball. Heyer might learn a few more tricks this year lets hope because youth is what we really need.

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:yea, they were both equally atrocious

Jansen could run block, but was a virtual speed bump in pass blocking.
Heyer could pass block, but got run over in the run game.

Put together, they'd be pretty good RT. However, as they are, each has a significant defect in their game.

I would even question Heyer's pass blocking. Although that's definitely the stronger part of his game.

Irn-Bru wrote:In order for something to be obvious it has to be readily apparent to most people. And I also didn't think it was apparent that Jansen outplayed Heyer. . .

Heyer got injured and then lost his staring job to a guy the new HC wanted no part of in training camp. Zorn did not want Jon to be the starter, but when he outplayed Heyer he couldn't give the kid his job back.

So that might not be obvious to some people, but to those who pay close attention to the team it should be.

the tackle spot on the left side may very well be the bright spot on the oline when there done shuffling every one around, It is simple, With the addition of a few good gaurds and great play from the center, it will solidify the oline, and the so called flawed system itself will be great. I mean the entire line is playing as a unit it was on and off last year throughout the games.
By the end the entire line started to show loads of weaknesses and it was primarily the gaurd ,center, gaurd area, that I noticed the most problems at, the line pass blocked, but couldn't hold up an entire seasons worth of compensating for the weak spot,

Heyer looked good to me, we got Dockary and Bridges, and isn't Jansen trying to play center.... thats alot of guts for him I hope he starts there it would be a good story too, "Long time tackle Jon Jansen starting in the probowl at center"

jeremyroyce wrote:I just want to know if Jeremy Bridges has had problems with the law, why are they signing him?

This may have been an isolated incident. We don't know what happened before he pulled out the gun. We don't know whether the gun was loaded. We don't know whether he made a threat, or was goofing around, or just being an ass.

Although an NFL player should to know better than to carry weapons into clubs (loaded or unloaded, for show or for self defense), a single incident does not make a pattern.

I think the character issues guys are guys who get into trouble on a regular basis -- and who do not learn from their stupidity.

Bridges has been arrested twice in the last three years

it is also a 16 game year hope he stays on the team

When exactly did Heyer fall out of favor. I remember him shutting Strahan down then next thing I know he's riding the pine.

Gibbs4Life wrote:When exactly did Heyer fall out of favor. I remember him shutting Strahan down then next thing I know he's riding the pine.

That was back in 2007

1niksder wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:When exactly did Heyer fall out of favor. I remember him shutting Strahan down then next thing I know he's riding the pine.

That was back in 2007

And I am pretty sure it wasn't Heyer vs Strahan 1vs1...