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Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 10:23 am
by Bob 0119
(d)oink wrote:El Mexican wrote:Countertrey wrote:Then I read the first post and thought "this is the only reason Vinny and Snyder are the FO of this team. Some of the fans simply have too much faith in them".
No kidding???? We get to decide who owns the team??? WHY DIDN'T YOU TELL US SOONER?????
No we don't.
But fans can be critical when things are clearly not going well and maybe take off those burgundy and gold glasses.
You can also emit your opinion with your wallet. I'm sure Vinny and Co. will listen to that.
Right on! I'm going to start emitting my opinion with my wallet starting today. I'm pretty sure by the end of the week Mr. Snyder and Mr Cerrato will be on a plane out here to meet face to face and discuss the spending freeze; then, pending a resolution, the Organization will struggle to remain afloat for a few years, but has a decent chance for at least partial recovery. I'm sorry. As a fan, it was my only course of action. I hope for them, it is a hard lesson learned.
Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:37 pm
by gibbsfan
i,ve done the same ( d )oink..
so i,ll probably hear from them as well.
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:43 pm
by HanburgerHelper
This topic is pretty much dead now but yes, I think the Skins are the only team on the rise for next year. Maybe I'm just an optimist but here's my reasoning:
Eagles are on their last gasp to win an SB (and doing quite nicely). If they don't, I'm thinking McNabb is history, maybe Reid. It's obvious the glory years are coming to a close in Philly which is why they're trying like hell to do it now. This team will disintegrate next year. I hope they win this year. Reid and McNabb deserve it.
Cowboys, well isn't it obvious now? They're sticking with Wade Phillips and they haven't gotten better since Parcells left. Phillips had zero to do with 13-3 in 2007. It was Parcell's foundation. In fact, he probably prevented them from going 15-1. It came unraveled this year for them and I don't see them getting better, only worse.
Giants? Sure they have a good team but don't tell me that they didn't decline at the end of this season. I just think they will start to trail off permanently. They got hot at the end of 2007, that's all. Heck, we nearly beat them twice in 2007. They weren't that great all of 2007. Now that Plaxico and Shockey are gone, Manning has no go-to guys. And Strahan is retired and Osi is hurt. How long can you keep two 1,000-yd RBs in the backfield under contract? Answer: One year.
I don't love Cerrato. Far from it. But I think they're starting to "get" this draft thing. Patience is the key. Snyder needs to stick with a freakin coach and a personnel strategy and let it ride out to its conclusion (and stay out of major team decisions past finances). If he had stuck with Shottenheimer, I really think we'd have gotten much closer to a SB by now. They need to start making smart personnel decisions with their vets. Too many people are this forum are so in love with some guys they forget this is a business.
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:50 pm
by Bob 0119
It was a good thread, man. It made it three pages. You've got to let it go. Every thread needs to die sometime.
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 6:04 pm
by Deadskins
Bob 0119 wrote:It was a good thread, man. It made it three pages. You've got to let it go. Every thread needs to die sometime.
I'll miss it though.
RIP SOTRT
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 7:14 pm
by SkinsJock
Man that was fun
I might also be a bit of a homer but I did get a lot out of some of these posts.
thanks guys - I think this team could be a pleasant surprise to some of us and there are a whole bunch of negative fans who will be eating crow, big time, this coming December
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:29 pm
by Gibbs4Life
He also loved Brunell.
Ouch
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:33 pm
by Gibbs4Life
What exactly was the reasoning behind picking Fred Davis?
The only positions I would have seen as not needing to draft were TE and RB, I really don't get that one. I like Fred, what I've seen anyway which is not much, but with
ey it really makes no sense.
The sting of the Jason Taylor extravaganza will force our hand in trading pick #13, we'll probably give it up for a 2nd and a 6th
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:36 pm
by Deadskins
Gibbs4Life wrote:He also loved Brunell.
Ouch
Who are you quoting? This is why the
button is your friend.
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 8:38 pm
by Gibbs4Life
Who are you quoting? This is why the button is your friend.
Quoting hamburger on opening post of thread
Posted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 11:18 pm
by PulpExposure
I'm a huge optimist...but...I don't think I've ever seen a post that called for this emoticon more:
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 1:56 am
by old-timer
JSPB22 wrote:At the end of training camp, I don't remember anyone complaining about our draft, or the fact that we had picked up Jason Taylor.
Then you don't have a very good memory. With regard to Jason Taylor, many of us called it a bad move from day one. Many of us howled when a team with so many glaring needs drafted a TE when this is one of the few positions at which we are well set. Second tight ends can be picked up as FA's, and Todd Yoder is perfectly suitable as a second TE in any case. Davis may or may not be a good NFL TE, but surely any FO with any competence could have traded the pick to a team which ACTUALLY NEEDED a TE, in exchange for a player on the OL or DL who actually may have done us some good. Common sense, but that's way to much to ask from OUR FO.
There was some grumbling about the price, but no one could argue about what he brought to the table.
That's a very dubious proposition. Trading two picks, one of them a 2nd rounder, for a 34-year old DE is unarguable? I beg to differ. Many people, including myself, argued that it was a poor decision at the time and constantly afterward, until our point was made manifestly obvious and prove on the field and in reality. I think all of us who so argued have been vindicated.
Then the wheels came off with one freak play against the Rams, and suddenly all the naysayers came out of the woodwork.
That's not fair. I was a naysayer long before the Rams game. I was just temporarily in remission when we went 6-2, hoping I had been proved wrong. I wasn't, apparenty (unfortunately). As managers, Vinny and Danny suck. This is not a theory to be argued, but a fact (check our record for the last 10 years) to be explained. Saying they suck is no more anti-Redskin than saying that Brandon Lloyd sucks. And the contention of some to the contrary is insulting and stupid.
The armchair GMs knew it all along. They would have done things differently, and the Skins would be poised to win their fourth SuperBowl right now if we had only done what they now knew was the right course of action. Stuff happens! Deal with it. If there was someone who knew every right move to make, their team would win the SB every year. Here's a news flash: Only one team wins the SB each year, and no team has ever won it more than twice in a row.
So your point is what, that we should be satisfied with the chronic mediocrity that Snyderatto has brought to this team, because 'only one team can win the Super Bowl'? Is that your point? Or would you like to re-phrase that?
Do I wish we were still playing? Damn straight! But I'm not going to second guess every move the franchise makes if we don't win every game.
I believe that's what the rhetoriticians call a 'straw man' argument.
Don't you think they want to win every bit as much as you want them to?
Yes, I do - but primarily for gratification of their own egos - not for the good of the Washington Redskins franchise. And that's why Snyderatto is a failure as an NFL FO - Snyderatto would rather lose their way than win it by some other person's way. There's a lack of humility there that is staggering. Cooke was at least as smart as Snyder in business, and he knew damn well not to dabble in things he knew nothing about. He hired a GM and let the GM run the franchise. Snyder thinks this whole franchise is nothing but his personal toy, ala George Steinbrenner. And as long as he continues to run this franchise as his personal hobby horse, we had all better get used to failed seasons and reduced expectations. That's the only way we can remain Redskin fans and not be disillusioned.
People make mistakes, and you have to take the good with the bad, and hope for the best.
So if they keep making stupid mistakes and decisions year after year, we should all be good and just 'hope for the best'? Puhleese.
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 5:07 am
by Deadskins
old-timer wrote:JSPB22 wrote:At the end of training camp, I don't remember anyone complaining about our draft, or the fact that we had picked up Jason Taylor.
Then you don't have a very good memory. With regard to Jason Taylor, many of us called it a bad move from day one. Many of us howled when a team with so many glaring needs drafted a TE when this is one of the few positions at which we are well set. Second tight ends can be picked up as FA's, and Todd Yoder is perfectly suitable as a second TE in any case. Davis may or may not be a good NFL TE, but surely any FO with any competence could have traded the pick to a team which ACTUALLY NEEDED a TE, in exchange for a player on the OL or DL who actually may have done us some good. Common sense, but that's way to much to ask from OUR FO.
There was some grumbling about the price, but no one could argue about what he brought to the table.
That's a very dubious proposition. Trading two picks, one of them a 2nd rounder, for a 34-year old DE is unarguable? I beg to differ. Many people, including myself, argued that it was a poor decision at the time and constantly afterward, until our point was made manifestly obvious and prove on the field and in reality. I think all of us who so argued have been vindicated.
I'll respond to these first two together, since the second is predicated by the first. You are
still grumbling about the price, not what he brought to the table. He was the current NFL active sacks leader, and hadn't missed a game in 10 seasons. There was no way of knowing at the time that would not continue to be a sack machine. I'll give you the TE pick, but I still don't remember people complaining about the draft at the time. Even though we already had
ey, people thought Davis was a good prospect, and Kelly and Thomas were highly touted prospects as well.
old-timer wrote:JSPB22 wrote:Then the wheels came off with one freak play against the Rams, and suddenly all the naysayers came out of the woodwork.
That's not fair. I was a naysayer long before the Rams game. I was just temporarily in remission when we went 6-2, hoping I had been proved wrong. I wasn't, apparenty (unfortunately). As managers, Vinny and Danny suck. This is not a theory to be argued, but a fact (check our record for the last 10 years) to be explained. Saying they suck is no more anti-Redskin than saying that Brandon Lloyd sucks. And the contention of some to the contrary is insulting and stupid.
I was talking about this particular season. By the time we were 6-2 the Rams game was three games in the past. By your own admission, when we had finished with Dallas and Philly and were 4-1 (lines of my post you left out), you were quiet in your naysaying. Like me, you probably thought we were looking pretty strong, and I doubt you were saying we sucked. And, to use your own words, your contention to the contrary is insulting and stupid.
old-timer wrote:JSPB22 wrote:The armchair GMs knew it all along. They would have done things differently, and the Skins would be poised to win their fourth SuperBowl right now if we had only done what they now knew was the right course of action. Stuff happens! Deal with it. If there was someone who knew every right move to make, their team would win the SB every year. Here's a news flash: Only one team wins the SB each year, and no team has ever won it more than twice in a row.
So your point is what, that we should be satisfied with the chronic mediocrity that Snyderatto has brought to this team, because 'only one team can win the Super Bowl'? Is that your point? Or would you like to re-phrase that?
No, my point is that hindsight is 20/20, and if you are so prescient to know all the right moves you would be working for an NFL franchise, making millions of dollars, and your team would win the SB every year. All your bitching and moaning here at THN won't do a thing to help the Skins win, and it grows tiresome. Every year there are 31 teams that aren't satisfied with the way their season ended.
old-timer wrote:JSPB22 wrote:Do I wish we were still playing? Damn straight! But I'm not going to second guess every move the franchise makes if we don't win every game.
I believe that's what the rhetoriticians call a 'straw man' argument.
JSPB22 wrote:Don't you think they want to win every bit as much as you want them to?
Yes, I do - but primarily for gratification of their own egos - not for the good of the Washington Redskins franchise. And that's why Snyderatto is a failure as an NFL FO - Snyderatto would rather lose their way than win it by some other person's way. There's a lack of humility there that is staggering. Cooke was at least as smart as Snyder in business, and he knew damn well not to dabble in things he knew nothing about. He hired a GM and let the GM run the franchise. Snyder thinks this whole franchise is nothing but his personal toy, ala George Steinbrenner. And as long as he continues to run this franchise as his personal hobby horse, we had all better get used to failed seasons and reduced expectations. That's the only way we can remain Redskin fans and not be disillusioned.
And I agree with all of that, but I was talking about the team, and the coaches, not the FO. Still, what do you propose as a solution to our ownership problem?
old-timer wrote:JSPB22 wrote:People make mistakes, and you have to take the good with the bad, and hope for the best.
So if they keep making stupid mistakes and decisions year after year, we should all be good and just 'hope for the best'? Puhleese.
No, by all means continue to go on whining about it and feeling sorry for yourself, and see how far that gets you.
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:21 am
by Bob 0119
There is always someone out there that can say "I called that a bad move" or "I told you that wouldn't work."
Those people typically say everything is a bad move, or respond to everything with negativity.
This is simply for times like these so they can say "I told you so" or "I said it first."
I agree with JSPB22 that those posters were noticably absent when the team was 4-1, but they couldn't wait to come back to the surface (like worms during a rainstorm) once the team started it's losing skid.
Maybe that's the way to be. Maybe I should just predict a loss at every turn, so that when they do lose, I can feel better about myself by saying "I told you that would happen."
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:56 am
by El Mexican
Bob 0119 wrote:There is always someone out there that can say "I called that a bad move" or "I told you that wouldn't work."
Those people typically say everything is a bad move, or respond to everything with negativity.
This is simply for times like these so they can say "I told you so" or "I said it first."
I agree with JSPB22 that those posters were noticably absent when the team was 4-1, but they couldn't wait to come back to the surface (like worms during a rainstorm) once the team started it's losing skid.
Maybe that's the way to be. Maybe I should just predict a loss at every turn, so that when they do lose, I can feel better about myself by saying "I told you that would happen."
I don't see it like that.
First and foremost, you have to remember we are fans also. We care for the team and live and die each weekend watching the team play.
But we are also realists. And we like to say when things are not going well in the hope that someone will pickup our voice and make some changes within the organization.
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 10:58 am
by CanesSkins26
I'll respond to these first two together, since the second is predicated by the first. You are still grumbling about the price, not what he brought to the table. He was the current NFL active sacks leader, and hadn't missed a game in 10 seasons. There was no way of knowing at the time that would not continue to be a sack machine.
Actually there was a way of knowing that he wouldn't continue to be a "sack machine" here....scheme. There were many people, including a Dolphins fan that posted on this site, that correctly pointed out that in Miami Taylor was used as a 3-4 linebacker and not as an every down defensive end. Furthermore, while he obviously played at defensive end for much of his career, he never played on the strong side like we had him playing. So what we essentially did is take an undersized 3-4 linebacker and ask him to start at left defensive end, an utterly stupid decision. In a recent interview with the Junkies Taylor said himself that the scheme we use defensively doesn't fit him. We traded two valuable picks and then tried to make him into something that he isn't. I lived in Miami from 2004-2007 and saw a lot of Dolphins games and we didn't even come close to using Taylor the way that they did, especially when Nick Saban was their head coach. They moved Taylor around to create mismatches and didn't just stupidly line him up at LDE and ask him to match up against tackles that are much bigger than he is.
Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 11:31 am
by Deadskins
CanesSkins26 wrote:I'll respond to these first two together, since the second is predicated by the first. You are still grumbling about the price, not what he brought to the table. He was the current NFL active sacks leader, and hadn't missed a game in 10 seasons. There was no way of knowing at the time that would not continue to be a sack machine.
Actually there was a way of knowing that he wouldn't continue to be a "sack machine" here....scheme. There were many people, including a Dolphins fan that posted on this site, that correctly pointed out that in Miami Taylor was used as a 3-4 linebacker and not as an every down defensive end. Furthermore, while he obviously played at defensive end for much of his career, he never played on the strong side like we had him playing. So what we essentially did is take an undersized 3-4 linebacker and ask him to start at left defensive end, an utterly stupid decision. In a recent interview with the Junkies Taylor said himself that the scheme we use defensively doesn't fit him. We traded two valuable picks and then tried to make him into something that he isn't. I lived in Miami from 2004-2007 and saw a lot of Dolphins games and we didn't even come close to using Taylor the way that they did, especially when Nick Saban was their head coach. They moved Taylor around to create mismatches and didn't just stupidly line him up at LDE and ask him to match up against tackles that are much bigger than he is.
I agree, but before the season, when we got Taylor, no one knew that we were going to misuse him. My point was that no one was arguing about what he brought to the table, not what we paid for him, and I stand by that.