The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I'm not for blowing it up. I'd say if we could get Parcells in the FO and he'd be willing to work with Zorn for at least a year than I'd say do it. I read an article how Parcells turned around Miami of all teams. Now they really sucked and now they're in the play-offs?
Having Parcells or someone like him would make coaching this team so much easier.
I'm not for changing the coaching staff either. The one reason (I think) that our defense has done so well over the years is that we've had consistency there. I would've liked Greg Williams as our head coach. It wasn't his fault the offense sucked.
I think the reason we're 8-8 is because we've had some consistency with Joe Gibbs there for four years. If he hadn't been Joe Gibbs he'd been fired too. Keep Zorn for at least another year. I'd like to have Cowher but he's not going to touch this team. He's already been offerred the Job. He's going to Denver if he goes at all. He'll have more control there than he would in Washington.
If we could get the GM from New England I'd be happy too.
Who really believes that there is going to be a change in the front office?

Trample the Elderly wrote:I'm not for blowing it up. I'd say if we could get Parcells in the FO and he'd be willing to work with Zorn for at least a year than I'd say do it. I read an article how Parcells turned around Miami of all teams. Now they really sucked and now they're in the play-offs?
Having Parcells or someone like him would make coaching this team so much easier.
I'm not for changing the coaching staff either. The one reason (I think) that our defense has done so well over the years is that we've had consistency there. I would've liked Greg Williams as our head coach. It wasn't his fault the offense sucked.
I think the reason we're 8-8 is because we've had some consistency with Joe Gibbs there for four years. If he hadn't been Joe Gibbs he'd been fired too. Keep Zorn for at least another year. I'd like to have Cowher but he's not going to touch this team. He's already been offerred the Job. He's going to Denver if he goes at all. He'll have more control there than he would in Washington.
If we could get the GM from New England I'd be happy too.
Who really believes that there is going to be a change in the front office?

Tramp, Parcells would never come here unless he was assured by Danny and Money that he'd have full control. But if you could land a Parcells or a Scott Pioli to run the front office, then you'd have to blow it up. Because they will probably start over with the coaching staff and trim alot of fat from the roster via cuts and trades. Give the new front office guy and new system five years to turn around without making any major changes.

The one thing that many of us Skins fans have been crying for is continuity. If you can get an elite GM to come here, then let him rebuild this franchise over the next five years with a true program. Let at the top teams in this league and in the playoffs now, besides San Diego.

Tennessee - Fisher and his front office have been in place for a while;

Baltimore - The front office has been in place for a long time with their only mistake being holding onto Billick too long but now they are back in the playoffs with that strong defense;

The Giants are right now, the example or model for building through the draft;

Pittsburgh has been a model of consistency even after Cowher left and some of the coaches like our very own Russ Grimm (even though their blocking has suffered);

New England - Even though they missed the playoffs, they finished 11-5 with a backup QB that had not started for any team since High School until this season. He sat behind Leinhart at USC;

So it can be done if you find the right front office people and give time. Our problem is that we have not found the right front office people and we haven't given anything any time.

There are a number of different ways to build and support an NFL franchise at the highest level. Most of them are very easy to identify.

We have a team that is owned by Dan Snyder - we can only hope that things will change but that is not a very realistic hope

What to do?

General Manager.

General Manager.

General Manager.

Again ...

General Manager.

General Manager.

General Manager.

Any questions?

General Manager.

General Manager.

General Manager.

Once again ...

roybus14 wrote:

Trample the Elderly wrote:I'm not for blowing it up. I'd say if we could get Parcells in the FO and he'd be willing to work with Zorn for at least a year than I'd say do it. I read an article how Parcells turned around Miami of all teams. Now they really sucked and now they're in the play-offs?
Having Parcells or someone like him would make coaching this team so much easier.
I'm not for changing the coaching staff either. The one reason (I think) that our defense has done so well over the years is that we've had consistency there. I would've liked Greg Williams as our head coach. It wasn't his fault the offense sucked.
I think the reason we're 8-8 is because we've had some consistency with Joe Gibbs there for four years. If he hadn't been Joe Gibbs he'd been fired too. Keep Zorn for at least another year. I'd like to have Cowher but he's not going to touch this team. He's already been offerred the Job. He's going to Denver if he goes at all. He'll have more control there than he would in Washington.
If we could get the GM from New England I'd be happy too.
Who really believes that there is going to be a change in the front office?

Tramp, Parcells would never come here unless he was assured by Danny and Money that he'd have full control. But if you could land a Parcells or a Scott Pioli to run the front office, then you'd have to blow it up. Because they will probably start over with the coaching staff and trim alot of fat from the roster via cuts and trades. Give the new front office guy and new system five years to turn around without making any major changes.

The one thing that many of us Skins fans have been crying for is continuity. If you can get an elite GM to come here, then let him rebuild this franchise over the next five years with a true program. Let at the top teams in this league and in the playoffs now, besides San Diego.

Tennessee - Fisher and his front office have been in place for a while;

Baltimore - The front office has been in place for a long time with their only mistake being holding onto Billick too long but now they are back in the playoffs with that strong defense;

The Giants are right now, the example or model for building through the draft;

Pittsburgh has been a model of consistency even after Cowher left and some of the coaches like our very own Russ Grimm (even though their blocking has suffered);

New England - Even though they missed the playoffs, they finished 11-5 with a backup QB that had not started for any team since High School until this season. He sat behind Leinhart at USC;

So it can be done if you find the right front office people and give time. Our problem is that we have not found the right front office people and we haven't given anything any time.

That's only IF we could get Parcells. We both know that Parcells wouldn't come to Washington because of the very same reasons you pointed out. It's apparent to everyone except Danny Boy. There isn't going to be any consistency (on offense) as long as hard head gets his way. You know and I know Zorn is gone next year if we don't go 10-6 or better. The players know that too. That's why they don't give a damn. They've seen it for too many years.
I really don't understand why anyone who pay to watch the Skins play at home at the price they pay? I could pay maybe 25 dollars? And how much is the food and beer up there? What about parking? At RFK they let you bring some stuff in. I've never been to FedEx?

Redskin in Canada wrote:What to do?

General Manager.

General Manager.

General Manager.

Again ...

General Manager.

General Manager.

General Manager.

Any questions?

General Manager.

General Manager.

General Manager.

Once again ...

One more time! INCOMPETENCE, FAILURE & GREED

How about bringing in some of Holmgrens offensive staff.

As far GM. If I had a choice I would try and lure Ron Wolf out of retirement.

Too bad Dark Side DS loves Vinny too much to let him go.

To the people who have voted "blow it up" or who have otherwise suggested major changes: You forget that this is a people business.

Real life is not fantasy football. If the FO makes major changes now, or if the owner makes major changes in the FO, it only undermines the franchise's credibility. The Redskins have a reputation for throwing money at big names and making major short term fixes that don't pan out. If they continue that pattern, it will make the team the laughingstock of the league.

People keep saying that Snyder should hire a "real" general manager. Well, what if he cannot get the guy he wants? In fact Snyder tried to hire two "real" general managers before settling on Vinny. Why do you think he had trouble recruiting the guys he wanted? Do you think it will get any earier to recruit the best if the revolving door keeps revolving?

We finished 8-8. Not 0-16. Not 1-15. Not 2-14. We beat Philadelphia twice, and Philadelphia is still in. We beat Arizona, and Arizona is still in. We beat Dallas once, and we almost beat them twice -- they were on the cusp of getting in. All with a rookie head coach who had never called plays before. We have something to build on here.

Please everyone, QUIT YER BITCHING.

Trample the Elderly wrote:.. I really don't understand why anyone would pay to watch the Skins play at home at the price they pay? I could pay maybe 25 dollars? And how much is the food and beer up there? What about parking? At RFK they let you bring some stuff in. I've never been to FedEx?

You really should have a talk sometime with DEHog

I do not support Snyder but there is something very special about seeing a Redskins' home game - on a nice fall day, when the team comes out on the field (actually just a few yards from DEHog's seats it is a special place to be .... and then you have to watch this product that Snyder and Cerrato continually seem to be able to screw up.

The prices are absurd - a family day at FedEx is over $500.00 minimum and that's in the not very good seats. Food and drink prices make you feel as though you are being gouged. You definetly need a loan to afford good seats

I'm happy to watch the games from home...for free. LOL

I only regret not being able to tailgate with the THN family, thats the ONLY thing I miss.

Snout wrote:People keep saying that Snyder should hire a "real" general manager. Well, what if he cannot get the guy he wants? In fact Snyder tried to hire two "real" general managers before settling on Vinny. Why do you think he had trouble recruiting the guys he wanted? Do you think it will get any earier to recruit the best if the revolving door keeps revolving?

Who did he try to get? I remember buzz about Ron Wolff, but I don't know if there were any real talks there.

But it doesn't matter. Snyder has created an environment where the people he might want won't want to work here. If most of that is perception rather than truth, it's still just as much an obstacle.

The best people are going to want total autonomy and expect to see/hear from the owner only on game day or passing each other in the hall. He gets to suggest all he wants, but every football decision needs to be 100% on the shoulders of that top football person -- and it doesn't get run by the owner.

SkinsJock wrote:but there is something very special about seeing a Redskins' home game

Or at least there used to be ...

I won't ever give up my season tickets.

As bad as we might think ownership and management is at times, it is still our team. I am a Redskins fan, not a snyder fan, a zorn fan, a Rogers fan (LOL)....I am a fan of the team. I will root for them even if they hit Detroit level.

SkinsJock wrote:

Trample the Elderly wrote:.. I really don't understand why anyone would pay to watch the Skins play at home at the price they pay? I could pay maybe 25 dollars? And how much is the food and beer up there? What about parking? At RFK they let you bring some stuff in. I've never been to FedEx?

You really should have a talk sometime with DEHog

I do not support Snyder but there is something very special about seeing a Redskins' home game - on a nice fall day, when the team comes out on the field (actually just a few yards from DEHog's seats it is a special place to be .... and then you have to watch this product that Snyder and Cerrato continually seem to be able to screw up.

The prices are absurd - a family day at FedEx is over $500.00 minimum and that's in the not very good seats. Food and drink prices make you feel as though you are being gouged. You definetly need a loan to afford good seats

You sit by me???? I sat in a lot of different areas this year, where are you??

As for going to the game...I love being able to spend Sunday with my son that's # 1. He will forever have those memories of going to the games with his dad and getting to know some of the players. As for the product...I guess since I started coaching I've realized just how hard it is to win. I love watching football, every kind Pop Warner, High School, College and Pros. The way I look at it is… I pay to see a football game, I have yet to pay and not see one. It’s how I've chosen to spend my entertainment dollar.
I would agree there is something special about tailgating with friend and being at the game.

DEHog wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

Trample the Elderly wrote:.. I really don't understand why anyone would pay to watch the Skins play at home at the price they pay? I could pay maybe 25 dollars? And how much is the food and beer up there? What about parking? At RFK they let you bring some stuff in. I've never been to FedEx?

You really should have a talk sometime with DEHog

I do not support Snyder but there is something very special about seeing a Redskins' home game - on a nice fall day, when the team comes out on the field (actually just a few yards from DEHog's seats it is a special place to be .... and then you have to watch this product that Snyder and Cerrato continually seem to be able to screw up.

The prices are absurd - a family day at FedEx is over $500.00 minimum and that's in the not very good seats. Food and drink prices make you feel as though you are being gouged. You definetly need a loan to afford good seats

You sit by me???? I sat in a lot of different areas this year, where are you??

As for going to the game...I love being able to spend Sunday with my son that's # 1. He will forever have those memories of going to the games with his dad and getting to know some of the players. As for the product...I guess since I started coaching I've realized just how hard it is to win. I love watching football, every kind Pop Warner, High School, College and Pros. The way I look at it is… I pay to see a football game, I have yet to pay and not see one. It’s how I've chosen to spend my entertainment dollar.
I would agree there is something special about tailgating with friend and being at the game.

People have different opinions. I tend to side with DE, here. When I go, I go with friends and I have a good time. The only time I spent $500 (well my bro did) was when we got dream seats. I've yet to spend $200 at a game. You go in hungry and eat until your full at the game, that's your dime, and not a very smart choice. My wife and I can tailgate eat good before the game. While in, I have to buy my kid a hotdog/pizza and a drink. If it's really hot or cold, I'll have to buy my wife a drink or two as well. Hardly the amount of money you speculate.

You don't go to Hawaii to eat beef and you don't go to a NFL game to eat food. Be smart.

Snout wrote:To the people who have voted "blow it up" or who have otherwise suggested major changes: You forget that this is a people business.

Real life is not fantasy football. If the FO makes major changes now, or if the owner makes major changes in the FO, it only undermines the franchise's credibility. The Redskins have a reputation for throwing money at big names and making major short term fixes that don't pan out. If they continue that pattern, it will make the team the laughingstock of the league.

People keep saying that Snyder should hire a "real" general manager. Well, what if he cannot get the guy he wants? In fact Snyder tried to hire two "real" general managers before settling on Vinny. Why do you think he had trouble recruiting the guys he wanted? Do you think it will get any earier to recruit the best if the revolving door keeps revolving?

We finished 8-8. Not 0-16. Not 1-15. Not 2-14. We beat Philadelphia twice, and Philadelphia is still in. We beat Arizona, and Arizona is still in. We beat Dallas once, and we almost beat them twice -- they were on the cusp of getting in. All with a rookie head coach who had never called plays before. We have something to build on here.

Please everyone, QUIT YER BITCHING.

You have to "blow it up" in a way that shows fans and prospective FO people that this will not be a revolving door and that you are committed to rebuilding from the grown up for the next five years. That means that you get a qualified GM to find a qualified coach, set your staff then start building. The problem here is that change is always change except for Gibbs II but we didn't see anything lasting off of that because he was a shell of his former self and we still did not have a qualified GM.

It will happen this off-season for teams like KC and even Cleveland who are seriously persuing Pioli in New England. Which ever teams lands him, they are going to want to duplicate what he did in NE and that's build through the draft and make smart decisions about FAs. Plus find a staff to get-r-done.

RedskinsFreak wrote:Who did he try to get? I remember buzz about Ron Wolff, but I don't know if there were any real talks there.

But it doesn't matter. Snyder has created an environment where the people he might want won't want to work here. If most of that is perception rather than truth, it's still just as much an obstacle.

Beathard received and offer but declined.
tinyurl.com/Beathard
Bruce Allen received an offer but declined.
tinyurl.com/BruceAllen
We wanted to interview Rich McKay, but Tampa refused.
tinyurl.com/RMcKay


Cerrato was our fourth choice

roybus14 wrote:You have to "blow it up" in a way that shows fans and prospective FO people that this will not be a revolving door and that you are committed to rebuilding from the grown up for the next five years. That means that you get a qualified GM to find a qualified coach, set your staff then start building. The problem here is that change is always change except for Gibbs II but we didn't see anything lasting off of that because he was a shell of his former self and we still did not have a qualified GM.

Well, what if you try that, but it doesn't work? What if you cannot recruit a qualified GM? What if you give full control to a Hall of Fame coach, but he turns out to be a shell of his former self? Then what?

Everything that restless fans are clamoring for has been tried. In fact, the root of the problem is that Snyder has listened to clamoring fans TOO MUCH since becoming the owner.

Snout wrote:Everything that restless fans are clamoring for has been tried. In fact, the root of the problem is that Snyder has listened to clamoring fans TOO MUCH since becoming the owner.

BS
(Bad Statement)

He has been listening to his pockets and his EGO. He does not listen to anybody but himself right now. Joe had his ear and had him under control but only TEMPORARILY.

Redskin in Canada wrote:He has been listening to his pockets and his EGO. He does not listen to anybody but himself right now. Joe had his ear and had him under control but only TEMPORARILY.

Nonsense.

Fans and the media said he should give Turner one more chance, and he did.

Fans and the media said he needed to hire a "football person" and turn over complete control, and he did.

Fans and the media said that Marty had to go, and he complied.

Fans and the media said that he needed to hire a "real GM" and he tried (but failed).

Fans and the media went wild when he hired Spurrier.

Fans and the media demanded that he fire Spurrier, and he probably would have, except that Spurrier quit first.

Fans and the media went even wilder when he brought Joe back and gave Joe final say in all decisions.

Fans and the media weren't sure how to respond after Joe left, but there was widespread consensus that we needed at least some "continuity", so we brought in a new head coach, but kept the old defense and offensive running game in place.

We almost hired Jim Fassel, but when fans and the media threatened revolt, the owner backed down.

None of this has worked, and now fans and the media are looking for a scapegoat. It must be the owner's fault and Vinny's fault, because those are the only two constants since January 2002, right?

Everyone has an opinion about what the Redskins need to do, but I say that fans are looking at this the same way they look at fantasy football. It ain't that easy. Look back at the history of the Redskins over the last decade and you see a pattern of the owner doing (or at least trying to do) all of the things that the fans and the media clamored for. It has not worked.

Even if we get the diagnosis correct, that doesn't mean that we can cure the disease.

That's a lot of speculation. I doubt you'll be able to drudge up much proof on supporting that the fans/media had any significant input on his decisions.

VetSkinsFan wrote:That's a lot of speculation. I doubt you'll be able to drudge up much proof on supporting that the fans/media had any significant input on his decisions.

I agree Vet - AND despite the "speculation" - the fact remains, the people responsible for what has happened here for all that time are Snyder & Cerrato

Fans and media are not responsible - they are, for the most part, really stupid about how to make multi-million dollar franchises successful - that's why they are fans. The media in this town and especially with this owner are like sharks with blood in the water - there is nothing viable in what they report or intimate what is happening because their agenda is so biased.

They say that the biggest problem you have in trying to cure alcoholism is to get the person to admit and own up to that fact

Snyder is both the owner of the Redskins and he is reportedly a fan - fans should remain fans and let football people make the decisions


He most likely is well intentioned but he just cannot let go of the hope that he (& Cerrato) will get this thing turned around - it must seem awfully close to him and the real problem is he will not admit he does not know what he's doing

Fans and the media said he should give Turner one more chance, and he did.

Snyder brought the team too late in the off-season to make a change….Turner goes out and wins the division. Then Snyder buys high-prices over rated washed up vets but doesn’t sign a kicker when the media and fans are screaming to do so. Then he tells Turner to put George in at QB when everyone wants Johnson…Turner (on a very short leash) get fired when he’s 7-6. Who fires a coach at 7-6?? Now I admit I’m not ready to say bring Norv back but I would ask him if we can have our offense back because I haven’t seen it since he left!!

Fans and the media said he needed to hire a "football person" and turn over complete control, and he did.

And he couldn’t stand him self for it and fire Marty after 1 year!!

Fans and the media said that Marty had to go, and he complied.

Who said that we wanted Marty to stay!!

Fans and the media said that he needed to hire a "real GM" and he tried (but failed).

Hmm…I wonder why couldn't find a taker

Fans and the media went wild when he hired Spurrier.

Off course this was after they told him to fire Marty and hire SS

Fans and the media demanded that he fire Spurrier, and he probably would have, except that Spurrier quit first.

Really…that’s why SS at first denied he had resigned and got a very nice severance package.

Fans and the media went even wilder when he brought Joe back and gave Joe final say in all decisions.

This is a no brainer and this is the only person I believe Snyder listened to, I based that on a a person I know who use to work for Snyder

Fans and the media weren't sure how to respond after Joe left, but there was widespread consensus that we needed at least some "continuity", so we brought in a new head coach, but kept the old defense and offensive running game in place.

It that what the fans wanted All I have heard is Cowher for the last two years.

We almost hired Jim Fassel, but when fans and the media threatened revolt, the owner backed down.

I might give you this one…not. It wasn't that the fans didn't want Fassel...They told Snyder we already have the HC on staff in Zorn

None of this has worked, and now fans and the media are looking for a scapegoat. It must be the owner's fault and Vinny's fault, because those are the only two constants since January 2002, right?
Right!!

Everyone has an opinion about what the Redskins need to do, but I say that fans are looking at this the same way they look at fantasy football. It ain't that easy. Look back at the history of the Redskins over the last decade and you see a pattern of the owner doing (or at least trying to do) all of the things that the fans and the media clamored for. It has not worked.

Even if we get the diagnosis correct, that doesn't mean that we can cure the disease.

Your right it’s not easy but we have examples all over the league of how to build and run an organization and even when these organizations are down…it’s not for long…we seem to be doing just the opposite.

Look I try to base my opinions on as much fact as I can. What I hear the actual people say and some of the people I know, not on what I read in the media or on message boards. I also try to base my speculation on the same thing.

You have now proof the DS is basing his decision on fans and the media.

I say he not and here’s proof…If you and I were arguing this in a courtroom…My case would begin and end with exhibit A...Vinny. How long has the media and the fans called for his head??
Heck Vinny would be my star witness…by his own admission he acknowledges that the media and the fans don't like him and want him gone and yet he continues to be employed by the Washington Redskins??

I'm with you DE. The only fan The Danny listens to is The Danny. And I think he makes some of his decisions just to spite the media.

Snout wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:He has been listening to his pockets and his EGO. He does not listen to anybody but himself right now. Joe had his ear and had him under control but only TEMPORARILY.

Nonsense..

I was going to answer but my brothers have taken care of your post better than I would have.

There is a word constantly missing in the ethical code of this franchise since Snyder took ownership:

ACCOUNTABILITY.