The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Redskin in Canada wrote:I want to be on record as OPPOSING any attempt to take the job away from Jim Zorn. I understand anger and frustration but Zorn has been one of the few bright lights this season. What is the guy guilty of???

Winning a few games and raising the expectations of a few to win a Super Bowl?

Come on guys, do not give any ideas to Danny. He might actually follow your advice!

Weren't you part of the Swishy defense force somewhere around the 1st Dallas game? I don't know if I wanna take your advice.

We suck. Here's who's in the doghouse


1.Jansen
2.Kendall
3.Samuels
4.Rabach
5.Thomas
6.Campbell
7.JTaylor

Gibbs4Life wrote:We suck. Here's who's in the doghouse


1.Jansen
2.Kendall
3.Samuels
4.Rabach
5.Thomas
6.Campbell
7.JTaylor

Zorn?

We have a phenominal secondary... I like Moss, Kelly, Thomas, Portis, ey, and Sellers on offense.
However, we just seem smaller and weaker and older than just about every team we play against. We are losing in the trenches. Our o-line and d-line both need an overhaul. Not completely, but 3-4 fresh faces would be nice.

I know we always say we need to build through the draft, and thats true. But i defenitely think this offseason we go after haynesworth and an olineman.
When was the last time this team got pressure on the QB? Haynesworth consistenly gets pressure from the interior which would free up others.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh... whatever... i hope i get hit by a bus tomorrow so i dont have to think about this team anymore.....

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'll tell you what, Zorn is an idiot for not giving Justin any help when he came in for Samuels.

He's a freaking idiot for that. That is inexcusable.

EVERYONE had to be asking that. Certainly Madden did. Where's the help on Suggs on the FIRST play!?!? But it's a lot easier to think of everything on the sofa in the living room then being a first year coach losing both your tackles in the same game. Zorn will improve.

It's not just this week, but ALL season. Our play calling sucks and that is Zorn. I agree Zorn has to go. All season long Zorn has done the same blasted thing and expecting to get a different result. The play calling is terrible and way to conservative and I'm tired of watching our defense come out week in and week out and be the only part of our team that does anything

I just don't see Zorn being replaced

die cowboys die wrote:i've been a big zorn enthusiast but the decision to punt on that 4th and 2 with a minute left from the RAVENS' 40 was inexcusable to the point of being criminal. find someone with half a brain to coach this pathetic team for once.

also contributing to this is the fact that zorn hadn't had the balls to bench jansen, who is beyond pathetic at this point, and now that heyer finally finally comes back in when jansen gets hurt, SUDDENLY we start moving the ball. ridiculous. any casual fan could have made better decisions on these matters.

I know I'm not supposed to curse, but asking for Zorn's head after his FIRST SEASON AS A HEAD COACH IS RETARDED!! WHY do we have such dumb, narrow-minded fans?!?! Half the bloggers on this site are such loose fans that at the first sign of someone having a mediocre performance as a head coach, WR, or any position on the football team should be fired/cut. WHO expected us to even be at 7-6 with a brand-spankin new head coach?? Dear God, Please send us the ultimate Belicheck. Brady, and Lewis to take our team to the super bowl. The End. FIRE JIM ZORN!!! WE GAVE HIM AMPLE OPPORTUNITY TO TAKE US ALL THE WAY AND HE FAILED. GOD AM I SICK OF PESSIMISTIC, DOWNTRODDEN, UNREALISTIC REDSKINS FANS!!! I may have been a part of the Skins family for 18 some odd years, but never, in the history of my NFL experience, have I ever heard such complaining from fans (until I got to San Diego.. haha)

I KNOW the Skins suck. I KNOW we had high expectations from them (after the first 6 games) BUT Zorn is a CHERRY head coach. ONE of these days the Skins will return to their Championship ways. Only ONE team wins it all. Please, all I ask is that we have faithful, relentless, REALISTIC fans. ITS JUST FOOTBALL!!!

Zorn was placed in a difficult position right from the start. Hired as an OC and promoted to HC, while still effectively serving as the OC (installing his offense) and QC (coaching up Campbell) while learning under fire HC responsibilities. That's a mighty tall task for the guy, and there was bound to be a learning curve.

With that said, I think he's beginning to wilt a bit under the pressure and it's showing in a few areas, and this business of having the backup center play left tackle (arguably the most important line position for a right hand QB) without help is mind numbing. What makes that even harder to accept is benching Portis in the second half when he is undoubtedly the best backfield blocker in pass pro, as well as the heart and soul of this offense. What is up with that? You have offensive problems and you sit your best offensive player?

There doesn't appear to be a plan right now either. I don't see any measures being taken to try to fix the problems. I see the same offensive strategy throughout the last several games. Way too many runs on 1st and 2nd downs....like in the 4th Q, down by 2 scores?

Now it's a shame that the D couldn't stop that last big drive, but these guys have been ridden hard, carrying more than their fair share of the load, and it's not surprising that they'd fold up like that. I'm surprised it hasn't happened sooner or more often.

It's just a good thing the Redskins don't have a couple of TO's in the locker room or there could be a shooting incident.

And Campbell seems bewildered, and just seems to have accepted the status quo. It's not a pretty sight.

Whether Campbell is to blame or not, the one thing I do see is a guy with little to no fight in him. Where's the anger? Where's the disgust? Where is the competitiveness of a winner? It sure doesn't show in his face or in his play.

Um...fire the players who can't pass, catch, tackle...I'm thinking everyone had a hand in this...oh...and maybe start practicing at NIGHT...since we can't play after the sun goes down.

Yeah, when a team loses it's because of coaching and when they win it's because of the players.

The fact of the matter is, the Redskins are just not very talented.

They were a decent team who didn't make a lot of mistakes with the ball. Now Jason Campbell's inexperience is showing and he's thrown 6 interceptions to 3 touchdowns since the end of October.

We have not won a game in which Jason Campbell has thrown a pick.

But he's not the only one to blame. Other players need to step up, get their head in the game and stop fumbling or committing stupid penalties. When you have an easygoing guy like Zorn, sometimes teams aren't as fundamentally sound. It doesn't mean every coach needs to be like Woody Hayes, but this team needs to start playing like they want to win. The next three games seem pretty winable, but the way the Redskins have been playing I wouldn't sleep on the Bengals.

I say we should blew it up because this team's window is closing with the talent that it has. Moss, ey, ARE, Portis, etc. are getting older and their window is closing shut. Maybe not ey.

But Vinny and Snyder need to start looking at blowing this thing up and building it around these young guys. Just take a few lumps and get the rookie WR's and TE ready; get young on defense and build around the secondary, Chris Wilson, Montgomery and start over. We can always draft a RB so don't focus on that but focus on the OL and DL. We may be able to squeeze another season or two out of Fletcher and McIntosh. I don't profess to be a GM so I'm just suggesting.

Also, take a look at whether or not JC is the QB for this offense....

jeremyroyce wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'll tell you what, Zorn is an idiot for not giving Justin any help when he came in for Samuels.

He's a freaking idiot for that. That is inexcusable.

EVERYONE had to be asking that. Certainly Madden did. Where's the help on Suggs on the FIRST play!?!? But it's a lot easier to think of everything on the sofa in the living room then being a first year coach losing both your tackles in the same game. Zorn will improve.

It's not just this week, but ALL season. Our play calling sucks and that is Zorn. I agree Zorn has to go. All season long Zorn has done the same blasted thing and expecting to get a different result. The play calling is terrible and way to conservative and I'm tired of watching our defense come out week in and week out and be the only part of our team that does anything

So you want to fire Zorn, bring in a new coach with a new offensive scheme and wait for JC to adjust to that one also? Zorn has exceeded any expectation I had for this team. True they teased me going 6-2 but I think Zorn has the tools to get this job done. Give him time.

SkinsChic wrote:Um...fire the players who can't pass, catch, tackle...

. . . or block.

Fire Zorn? Yeah, great idea...

So of these boneheaded ideas by fans make me want to...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:Well, then agreed on the solution, he should have been diverted to help out with Suggs. It is hard to understand even if they were thinking about the play sending the kid into play LT they shouldn't give him some help.

What's crazy is that Suggs was yelling at Zorn to warn him to help him. The guys on the radio were talking about it this morning.

Zorn has earned a couple of years as Skins head coach by the 6-2 start IMO. We can't score points against very good defenses, big deal, give him some time. Firing Zorn would be a ridiculously stupid move.


Did anybody really expect us to beat Dallas twice, NYG twice, or Pittsburgh. Baltimore is the only team I would have seen the Skins beating after the first game (of our last 4 losses), but they've really stepped it up. We lost to one bad team in STL, other than that the season is still a success in my eyes.

This is what Suggs said to Zorn....


"I actually pointed at Jim Zorn and said, 'You can't do this, you're going to get your quarterback hurt,' " said Suggs, who praised Geisinger's effort under such stark circumstances. "I was like, 'I don't think this guy is supposed to be here. You've got a mistake.' "

Wow

You have to keep Zorn around for at least a couple of years, and let him develop the team that he wants, not the one that he inherited. It's just not fair, otherwise.

Anyone who thought that Zorn would walk right into this team and turn it into a Super Bowl contender was seriously misguided; i.e., as if Joe Gibbs was the problem.

Zorn needs an OC, he has too much on his plate.

I think Zorn has a pretty good OC in Sherman Smith and Stump Mitchell seems like a capable assistant too. He just needs to delegate more.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I think Zorn has a pretty good OC in Sherman Smith and Stump Mitchell seems like a capable assistant too. He just needs to delegate more.

Yeah, you're right. That'll come in time too, if he's retained.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:I think Zorn has a pretty good OC in Sherman Smith and Stump Mitchell seems like a capable assistant too. He just needs to delegate more.

Yeah, you're right. That'll come in time too, if he's retained.

Seriously, barring a total collapse of the team and an open revolt by the players, the WORST thing that Snyder could do is act like a fan, overreact, and fire Zorn. We'd be back to step 1.

We need to rebuild this team, especially the lines. It's pretty clear.

Unfortunately the last really good lineman we had homegrown was Derrick Dockery. He's an elite NFL guard but he was a restricted free agent and the Bills broke the bank to get him.

I wonder if we could have locked him up a little earlier so we could have kept him?

Anyway, I think Rinehart and Heyer will be able to develop into good NFL linemen, but they need to do it quickly. Chris Samuels is 31, though still maintaining his effectiveness, Kendall is 35, Rabach is 31 (and I don't think he's that good), Thomas is 32 and he's losing it and Jansen is going downhill fast IMO.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Unfortunately the last really good lineman we had homegrown was Derrick Dockery. He's an elite NFL guard but he was a restricted free agent and the Bills broke the bank to get him.

I wonder if we could have locked him up a little earlier so we could have kept him?

Anyway, I think Rinehart and Heyer will be able to develop into good NFL linemen, but they need to do it quickly. Chris Samuels is 31, though still maintaining his effectiveness, Kendall is 35, Rabach is 31 (and I don't think he's that good), Thomas is 32 and he's losing it and Jansen is going downhill fast IMO.

It's time for a change but I'll be sad to see them go.

I agree, the line has been such a strength for years and I've been so proud of them, the dirtbags. It is such a shame that real Talented youth isn't ready on the bench on a night like last night. It is Vinny's fault, no one would be complaining if we'd gotten a giant second round tackle or pulling guard with Fdavis's pick, nor would we miss Kelley or even Thomas at this point. Zorn seems to want to use Moss, ey, El, and Thrash for whatever reason and if we were to draft wr's next year they would have had the added benefit of having time to run their routes and therefore having a fair chance at developing.

On a side note, for Thomas to have gone this far after only one year of football under his belt and at the age of 21 is such a good feeling. I think he will pan out and that's good because soon we will have the same age problem with our WR's as we do with the Line