The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Moss was being held long after the play was dead. He has a right to defend himself, the guy grabbed him and wouldn't let go even after Moss threw the shadow punch. If a grown man came up to me and grabbed me and wouldn't let go what am I suppossed to do? Moss did what he had to do to defend himself.

As for Tatupu he speared portis in the helmet with the crown of his helmet, yes this is football, but there are rules, and that is illegal. If CP wasn't a tough tough dude he could've gotten a concussion or worse, watch the Portis highlights on redskins.com it's clear as day.

Defend himself from what? His jersey getting wrinkled? There is absolutely never a reason to throw a punch on the field. PERIOD.

I agree, but Moss argressively pushed the player. His hand was open. No fist = no punch.

WTFever. That was NOT an "aggressive push."

7 seconds in to the clip

Looks like his hand is open to me. Hard to tell on that clip, but it really didn't look like he was trying to hit the guy. Just push him off, very aggressively.

uhh, maybe i'm the only one who noticed this, but the seahawks guy moss went after was in fact wearing a helmet. that's not made out of NERF, it's not an old-school leather helmet, it's very very hard.

this brings me to 2 thoughts:

1) it is exTREMELY unlikely that moss threw an actual close-fisted "punch" at a guy's rock-solid helmet. even in a fit of aggression, your instincts probably tell you that you're far more likely to break your hand than to harm him in any way whatsoever.

2) even if moss DID actually think he could land such a Herculean blow that it would smash a hole right through the helmet and knock the guy out, and upon actually attempting this somehow managed to avoid breaking his hand-- even if he DID punch the guy in the helmet, it would be utterly comical and completely preposterous to even suggest that he ought to be suspended for it.

there was literally no possible way in which he could've harmed the other player. punching the guy in the ARM would have even been a more serious assault.
taking a swing at another player looks bad, though, for the league's "image"- i get that. that's why you fine the guy, MAYBE. but even then, we're not talking about moss going up to another player and just swinging at him. the other guy very clearly was the instigator and wouldn't let go of moss, despite obviously knowing the play was over (seeing as the ref was standing RIGHT THERE. there is a huge difference in the way "the public" would feel about that, and thus what the league might reasonably need to do to protect its image.

die cowboys die wrote:uhh, maybe i'm the only one who noticed this, but the seahawks guy moss went after was in fact wearing a helmet. that's not made out of NERF, it's not an old-school leather helmet, it's very very hard.

this brings me to 2 thoughts:

1) it is exTREMELY unlikely that moss threw an actual close-fisted "punch" at a guy's rock-solid helmet. even in a fit of aggression, your instincts probably tell you that you're far more likely to break your hand than to harm him in any way whatsoever.

2) even if moss DID actually think he could land such a Herculean blow that it would smash a hole right through the helmet and knock the guy out, and upon actually attempting this somehow managed to avoid breaking his hand-- even if he DID punch the guy in the helmet, it would be utterly comical and completely preposterous to even suggest that he ought to be suspended for it.

there was literally no possible way in which he could've harmed the other player. punching the guy in the ARM would have even been a more serious assault.
taking a swing at another player looks bad, though, for the league's "image"- i get that. that's why you fine the guy, MAYBE. but even then, we're not talking about moss going up to another player and just swinging at him. the other guy very clearly was the instigator and wouldn't let go of moss, despite obviously knowing the play was over (seeing as the ref was standing RIGHT THERE. there is a huge difference in the way "the public" would feel about that, and thus what the league might reasonably need to do to protect its image.

...and it entirely misses the point. This was not an action in a "bang-bang" play... it was a deliberate shot taken after the play in an act of aggression. That was not a "push". The db was holding... that should have been called. Regardless, it was a technical violation of a rule, not assault. The same may not be true of what Moss did.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Moss was being held long after the play was dead. He has a right to defend himself, the guy grabbed him and wouldn't let go even after Moss threw the shadow punch. If a grown man came up to me and grabbed me and wouldn't let go what am I suppossed to do? Moss did what he had to do to defend himself.

As for Tatupu he speared portis in the helmet with the crown of his helmet, yes this is football, but there are rules, and that is illegal. If CP wasn't a tough tough dude he could've gotten a concussion or worse, watch the Portis highlights on redskins.com it's clear as day.

Defend himself from what? His jersey getting wrinkled? There is absolutely never a reason to throw a punch on the field. PERIOD.

I agree, but Moss argressively pushed the player. His hand was open. No fist = no punch.

WTFever. That was NOT an "aggressive push."

7 seconds in to the clip

Looks like his hand is open to me. Hard to tell on that clip, but it really didn't look like he was trying to hit the guy. Just push him off, very aggressively.

You're kidding, right? I guess the hand (whether opened or close, it's still the same thing) drawn back, and then forcefully thrust ot the guy's facemask enough to turn his head almost 90 degrees (that's to his shoulder, btw) isn't considered a a flagrant attack. Granted, I'll give the nitpicking open-handed vs close-handed strike argument, but I think in light of the video proof, that it will still warrant the same repercussion. I understand cutting your home team some slack, but come on...if someone had done that to Smoot or Rogers, you'd be calling for the death penalty.

VetSkinsFan wrote:I understand cutting your home team some slack, but come on...if someone had done that to Smoot or Rogers, you'd be calling for the death penalty.

Exactly.

PulpExposure wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I understand cutting your home team some slack, but come on...if someone had done that to Smoot or Rogers, you'd be calling for the death penalty.

Exactly.

Word.

PulpExposure wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I understand cutting your home team some slack, but come on...if someone had done that to Smoot or Rogers, you'd be calling for the death penalty.

Exactly.

Prettttyyyy much.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Moss was being held long after the play was dead. He has a right to defend himself, the guy grabbed him and wouldn't let go even after Moss threw the shadow punch. If a grown man came up to me and grabbed me and wouldn't let go what am I suppossed to do? Moss did what he had to do to defend himself.

As for Tatupu he speared portis in the helmet with the crown of his helmet, yes this is football, but there are rules, and that is illegal. If CP wasn't a tough tough dude he could've gotten a concussion or worse, watch the Portis highlights on redskins.com it's clear as day.

Defend himself from what? His jersey getting wrinkled? There is absolutely never a reason to throw a punch on the field. PERIOD.

I agree, but Moss argressively pushed the player. His hand was open. No fist = no punch.

WTFever. That was NOT an "aggressive push."

7 seconds in to the clip

Looks like his hand is open to me. Hard to tell on that clip, but it really didn't look like he was trying to hit the guy. Just push him off, very aggressively.

You're kidding, right? I guess the hand (whether opened or close, it's still the same thing) drawn back, and then forcefully thrust ot the guy's facemask enough to turn his head almost 90 degrees (that's to his shoulder, btw) isn't considered a a flagrant attack. Granted, I'll give the nitpicking open-handed vs close-handed strike argument, but I think in light of the video proof, that it will still warrant the same repercussion. I understand cutting your home team some slack, but come on...if someone had done that to Smoot or Rogers, you'd be calling for the death penalty.

Wow! I may be under playing it a little, but you are way over doing it! I have been jabbed much harder than by people congratulating me. That wouldn't have hurt w/o pads.

Look it was very dumb for him to do, but he clearly wasn't trying to inflict any harm on him. A right handed person trying to hurt someone would you their right hand.

PulpExposure wrote:The Skins and the fans should be careful about calling for suspensions.

After all, Moss is in line for a suspension WAY before Tatupu.

Matt Light didnt get suspended so if Moss does that would be ridiculous.

MDSKINSFAN wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:The Skins and the fans should be careful about calling for suspensions.

After all, Moss is in line for a suspension WAY before Tatupu.

Matt Light didnt get suspended so if Moss does that would be ridiculous.

Your point?

Matt Light clearly deserved suspension. Didn't happen. Probably a good sign for Moss.

Regardless, Moss needs to get his mind right, and keep it during the game. If you don't think that the Giants didn't see him lose his temper, and don't think that they will be trying to encourage him to do it again, you are mistaken. If the G girls can't do it, it will continue with the Crows the following week. You will see Moss getting mugged pretty much constantly for the next 2 weeks, trying to force him to blow up. The only thing that saves him, would be the emergence of Malcolm Kelly as a force, and making them pay for spending to much time on Moss.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:Moss was being held long after the play was dead. He has a right to defend himself, the guy grabbed him and wouldn't let go even after Moss threw the shadow punch. If a grown man came up to me and grabbed me and wouldn't let go what am I suppossed to do? Moss did what he had to do to defend himself.

As for Tatupu he speared portis in the helmet with the crown of his helmet, yes this is football, but there are rules, and that is illegal. If CP wasn't a tough tough dude he could've gotten a concussion or worse, watch the Portis highlights on redskins.com it's clear as day.

Defend himself from what? His jersey getting wrinkled? There is absolutely never a reason to throw a punch on the field. PERIOD.

I agree, but Moss argressively pushed the player. His hand was open. No fist = no punch.

WTFever. That was NOT an "aggressive push."

7 seconds in to the clip

Looks like his hand is open to me. Hard to tell on that clip, but it really didn't look like he was trying to hit the guy. Just push him off, very aggressively.

You're kidding, right? I guess the hand (whether opened or close, it's still the same thing) drawn back, and then forcefully thrust ot the guy's facemask enough to turn his head almost 90 degrees (that's to his shoulder, btw) isn't considered a a flagrant attack. Granted, I'll give the nitpicking open-handed vs close-handed strike argument, but I think in light of the video proof, that it will still warrant the same repercussion. I understand cutting your home team some slack, but come on...if someone had done that to Smoot or Rogers, you'd be calling for the death penalty.

Wow! I may be under playing it a little, but you are way over doing it! I have been jabbed much harder than by people congratulating me. That wouldn't have hurt w/o pads.

Look it was very dumb for him to do, but he clearly wasn't trying to inflict any harm on him. A right handed person trying to hurt someone would you their right hand.

But a jab isn't open handed, so it's not the same thing, right?


He hit him in the facemask, so obviously there was no intended physical harm. That's not quite the point, though, is it?

Countertrey wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:uhh, maybe i'm the only one who noticed this, but the seahawks guy moss went after was in fact wearing a helmet. that's not made out of NERF, it's not an old-school leather helmet, it's very very hard.

this brings me to 2 thoughts:

1) it is exTREMELY unlikely that moss threw an actual close-fisted "punch" at a guy's rock-solid helmet. even in a fit of aggression, your instincts probably tell you that you're far more likely to break your hand than to harm him in any way whatsoever.

2) even if moss DID actually think he could land such a Herculean blow that it would smash a hole right through the helmet and knock the guy out, and upon actually attempting this somehow managed to avoid breaking his hand-- even if he DID punch the guy in the helmet, it would be utterly comical and completely preposterous to even suggest that he ought to be suspended for it.

there was literally no possible way in which he could've harmed the other player. punching the guy in the ARM would have even been a more serious assault.
taking a swing at another player looks bad, though, for the league's "image"- i get that. that's why you fine the guy, MAYBE. but even then, we're not talking about moss going up to another player and just swinging at him. the other guy very clearly was the instigator and wouldn't let go of moss, despite obviously knowing the play was over (seeing as the ref was standing RIGHT THERE. there is a huge difference in the way "the public" would feel about that, and thus what the league might reasonably need to do to protect its image.

...and it entirely misses the point. This was not an action in a "bang-bang" play... it was a deliberate shot taken after the play in an act of aggression. That was not a "push". The db was holding... that should have been called. Regardless, it was a technical violation of a rule, not assault. The same may not be true of what Moss did.

frankly, i am stunned that this continues to require so much explanation. actually, the point was established quite clearly but i'll correct an error in your response: moss was not responding to being "held" in the penalty sense, the "technical violation of a rule" sense (he had already done that multiple times throughout the game, telling the ref what was going on and asking him to watch what the DB was doing). in this instance, he was retaliating to being held as in "physically restrained", in a sustained aggressive manner CLEARLY after the play had been over. that is absolutely, in every sense of the word, just as much "assault" as moss swinging back at him.

your statements seem to reflect an interpretation that suggests "since the DB initiated his holding of moss DURING the play, it doesn't matter that he continued to restrain him and push him long after the play was over". that is obviously illogical, and simply incorrect. it is absolutely no different than if the whistle had blown to end the play and the DB then went up to moss and grabbed him and tried to violently shove him around. when the play is over, you have to let the guy go. to continue shoving him around is, inarguably, a violation of the rules and should be flagged for a personal foul.

the way you are depicting it is thus: the DB had committed "Illegal Contact" on moss, so he went up to him after the play and cold-cocked him. if that were even slightly accurate, i might agree that it was a serious offense that would deserve at least consideration of suspension. but the fact remains that that is obviously a gross misrepresentation of the incident, unless you dispute that the DB knew the play was over. seeing as that the ref is standing 5 feet away from them, that seems like an exceptionally weak possibility.

[/b]

die cowboys die wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:uhh, maybe i'm the only one who noticed this, but the seahawks guy moss went after was in fact wearing a helmet. that's not made out of NERF, it's not an old-school leather helmet, it's very very hard.

this brings me to 2 thoughts:

1) it is exTREMELY unlikely that moss threw an actual close-fisted "punch" at a guy's rock-solid helmet. even in a fit of aggression, your instincts probably tell you that you're far more likely to break your hand than to harm him in any way whatsoever.

2) even if moss DID actually think he could land such a Herculean blow that it would smash a hole right through the helmet and knock the guy out, and upon actually attempting this somehow managed to avoid breaking his hand-- even if he DID punch the guy in the helmet, it would be utterly comical and completely preposterous to even suggest that he ought to be suspended for it.

there was literally no possible way in which he could've harmed the other player. punching the guy in the ARM would have even been a more serious assault.
taking a swing at another player looks bad, though, for the league's "image"- i get that. that's why you fine the guy, MAYBE. but even then, we're not talking about moss going up to another player and just swinging at him. the other guy very clearly was the instigator and wouldn't let go of moss, despite obviously knowing the play was over (seeing as the ref was standing RIGHT THERE. there is a huge difference in the way "the public" would feel about that, and thus what the league might reasonably need to do to protect its image.

...and it entirely misses the point. This was not an action in a "bang-bang" play... it was a deliberate shot taken after the play in an act of aggression. That was not a "push". The db was holding... that should have been called. Regardless, it was a technical violation of a rule, not assault. The same may not be true of what Moss did.

frankly, i am stunned that this continues to require so much explanation. actually, the point was established quite clearly but i'll correct an error in your response: moss was not responding to being "held" in the penalty sense, the "technical violation of a rule" sense (he had already done that multiple times throughout the game, telling the ref what was going on and asking him to watch what the DB was doing). in this instance, he was retaliating to being held as in "physically restrained", in a sustained aggressive manner CLEARLY after the play had been over. that is absolutely, in every sense of the word, just as much "assault" as moss swinging back at him.

your statements seem to reflect an interpretation that suggests "since the DB initiated his holding of moss DURING the play, it doesn't matter that he continued to restrain him and push him long after the play was over". that is obviously illogical, and simply incorrect. it is absolutely no different than if the whistle had blown to end the play and the DB then went up to moss and grabbed him and tried to violently shove him around. when the play is over, you have to let the guy go. to continue shoving him around is, inarguably, a violation of the rules and should be flagged for a personal foul.

the way you are depicting it is thus: the DB had committed "Illegal Contact" on moss, so he went up to him after the play and cold-cocked him. if that were even slightly accurate, i might agree that it was a serious offense that would deserve at least consideration of suspension. but the fact remains that that is obviously a gross misrepresentation of the incident, unless you dispute that the DB knew the play was over. seeing as that the ref is standing 5 feet away from them, that seems like an exceptionally weak possibility.

[/b]

Your very creative interpretation of my response not withstanding, my point still stands.