The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

This suspense is killing me!!!!!

We can't count on anyone else to lose. We MUST treat this as we have treated our previous play-off runs. This time we're ahead, let's not let this slip away.

skinsfan#33 wrote:THIS IS A MUST WIN!

First, it is Dallas!

I agree with this!

But journalists use the term in the other sense: a must-win for our playoff chances or to keep key momentum going, etc. And that's obviously wrong, IMO. Think about it this way, we can lose this game and probably two others and still make it to the playoffs. Must-wins are when your margin of error is at or near zero, like the start of our 6-0 run at the end of 2005.


But you are completely right. This is Dallas, and for that reason alone we know it's a MUST WIN.

I must really be a moron. I'm sorry. Why do we have to win every game? I'll agree we need to play as if we have to win. but the Giants have a really hard schedule this second half. Ours appears a lot easier.

Giants:
Baltimore-tough defense.
Arizona-better team then people think.
Washington-hopefully we win.
Philadelphia-almost won the 1st time.
Dallas-played them close.
Carolina-pretty tough team.
Minni-tough if they play like a week ago.

Washington:
Dallas-hopfully we win.
Seatle-not a good team.
Giants-hopefully we win.
Baltimore-again hopefully we win.
Cinci-no defense, can be beat.
Philli-we should win this.
49ers-horrid team up until last week.

If....if we can win all our divisional home games then thats 3 and I would count 49ers, Seatle, and Cinci as should wins, not guarenteed but should wins. Thats 6 leaving us 12-4. I think Baltimore will be difficult for us.

I can see the Giants losing to Baltimore, Arizona, Washington, Carolina. that leaves them 8-5 not counting their Philli game or Dallas game.

Yes I'm a homer but I can see the Giants losing a few games here in the second half of their schedule and maybe us making up some of the difference.

I loathe that there is only one home game in December. Are schedule was made for us to fail. That we are 6-3 is a minor miracle, and a testament to what Coach Joe built and how Coach Jim has taken control of it.

With the Cowboys struggling the most among the top contenders, this is clearly a must win given the strength of the NFC south and East. The South has a combined 23-13 record, with the East being 24-12, so 9-7 simply will not make the playoffs this year, and 10-6 will be iffy, with tie breakers surely involved.

In order to win the division, we need to win out, unless someone thinks the Giants will lose 3 (very unlikely). The Giants will finish and win the division at 13-3 or 14-2.

If we lost to the Boys, we'd be facing another "must win" every week for the next six weeks, 4 of which are on the road, with the only 2 home games against the Eagles and Giants.

Taking into account that the Redskins have played poorly for the past 4 weeks, and were within one score of losing every game we've played this year, we could just as easily be 3-6 as we are 6-3. We need to stop the bleeding on Sunday, or we might find out that we aren't a very good team after all. We haven't score 20 points in 4 weeks, three of which were against poor defenses.

The other point about how the judging works comparing teams like Philly to the Redskins can be summed up in one statistic....Points for-Points against, with Philly at a +71, second best in the NFL one spot behind the Giants, with the Redskins +3, toward the bottom of the list of contenders. That's a huge margin, and shows that we are very fortunate to even be above 500 right now. In the stretch run for the playoffs, we have 4 games against teams that are legit contenders in Dallas, Balt, Phi, NYG, and 3 games against poor teams on the road that we have proven the ability to play down to and lose to (Rams/Browns/Lions).

To even consider difficulty of schedules ignores our loss to the Rams, and our struggles to beat the Browns and the pathetic Lions...the Lions only competitive (non-blowout) loss was to the Redskins.

The Redskins have not yet turned the corner from being a decent team to being a very good team, and that corner is Sunday night. And it all boils down to one player....Jason Campbell.

Jason Campbell's performance against the Cowboys, and the remaining 6 games will tell the story, and contrary to beliefs of the JC fan club, he hasn't proven anything yet this year except that the Redskin offense is still struggling to score points just as they did in 2007.

Oh, you don't think that one player can make the difference, not even a QB? Think again. Look at the Jets at 7-3 with Favre (they were 4-12 last year. And though Flacco's overall stats aren't great, over the past 4 weeks his rating is 107 and the Ravens are tied for 1st with Pitt. Then look at the Cards with Warner throwing for 300 and 400 yards.

But the biggest example is Romo. Look at the Cowgirls with Romo and without Romo. With Romo they averaged 30 points per game, with Johnson they averaged 13.6 per game. Same receivers, with the addition of Roy Williams, and they couldn't get on the board.

This is not only a must win for the Redskins, it's a must perform for Campbell. The next 7 games will decide if Campbell is truly a franchise QB or just another stop gap measure in the search for one.

This is time for the Redskins to take a step towards being a contender or stay stagnant at the pretender level.

This is where we can step up and start putting teams away. We need to knock people out and take what's to be had. Let's stop letting the chips fall where they may and start snatching them up.

If the Pats can win without TOM FREAKING BRADY! We can make due without CP for a week or two!

RayNAustin wrote:the Lions only competitive (non-blowout) loss was to the Redskins.

Hyperbole alert! Ignoring the inevitable mention of JC in your post, this is just wrong. Here's a list of Lions games that were closer than the Redskins game.

10/12 Lost to Vikings 12-10.
10/19 Lost to the Texans 28-21.
11/2 Lost to the Bears 27-23.

It really does not matter what the current record is - we just need to win 3 more game this year - Cowboys, Giants and Eagles - because they are the teams in our division, not because it will define anything or prove anything

This Redskins team is not as good as 6-3 or as bad as we have looked in a few games - we just need to beat this team this week, anyway we can

IF we play badly and win, it will still prove nothing - we just need to beat this team this week and mainly because it's the stupid, freakin' pukes - THATS WHY



This team is playing above expectations this year and we all should enjoy how our team is playing instead of dreading which team will show every week, or thinking that IF we lose a game we are in dire straits. If this season has shown anything it is that no team is really good and cannot be beaten - with the way the giants can fold and with no leadership of note I will not be surprised to see them lose 4 or even 5 games over this last stretch

Irn-Bru wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:THIS IS A MUST WIN!

First, it is Dallas!

I agree with this!

But journalists use the term in the other sense: a must-win for our playoff chances or to keep key momentum going, etc. And that's obviously wrong, IMO. Think about it this way, we can lose this game and probably two others and still make it to the playoffs. Must-wins are when your margin of error is at or near zero, like the start of our 6-0 run at the end of 2005.


But you are completely right. This is Dallas, and for that reason alone we know it's a MUST WIN.

We might be able to lose two more if thay are the two remaining AFC games. The way the NFC is going this year there WILL be at least one 10-6 team watching the playoffs, maybe more, maybe even an 11-5 team will miss out.

So this is a must win.

I agree with RayinAustin on the part about Campbell steppeing it up.
Portis likely wont play and he has been carrying us. We cant expect his back-up (whomever that may be) to do it.

Decisions must be quicker, throws crisper , more accurate and this must all be done more consistantly than the last 4 games, primarily 3rd down and red zone.

Expect Dallas to run Barber much more, hit TO on shorter crossing routes and Blitz like hell on defense. Witten wont be used much in crossing routes due to his ribs, expect more short outs, hooks, screens and curls with TO and Williams doing the dirty work over the middle.

Without Portis, Campbell wont have the luxury of nice comfy pocket and someone to COSISTANTLY pick up the odd man rush. For that reason ey may have to stay in and block more than we want him to. That means tighter coverages on our remaining recievers and JC is gonna have to fit the ball into some tight spots with little time to think about it.

For the most part, this game rides on Campbell, HE must carry us this time. Thats not saying everyone else doesnt have to step up but, without a running game? the Cowboys D knows this too. Nothing takes the crowd out of a game like turnovers and sacks.

PulpExposure wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:the Lions only competitive (non-blowout) loss was to the Redskins.

Hyperbole alert! Ignoring the inevitable mention of JC in your post, this is just wrong. Here's a list of Lions games that were closer than the Redskins game.

10/12 Lost to Vikings 12-10.
10/19 Lost to the Texans 28-21.
11/2 Lost to the Bears 27-23.

You beat me to it.

This IS a must win game. Look at the Falcons and Tampa schedules and you will understand where I'm coming from. I believe we need to win 11 to get in and I don't think we beat the Eagles nor the Giants. That means 2 wins over

Cowgirls - W
Giants - L
Ravens - W
Eagles - L

We have to win against

Seahawks
Cincy
49ers

JSPB22 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:the Lions only competitive (non-blowout) loss was to the Redskins.

Hyperbole alert! Ignoring the inevitable mention of JC in your post, this is just wrong. Here's a list of Lions games that were closer than the Redskins game.

10/12 Lost to Vikings 12-10.
10/19 Lost to the Texans 28-21.
11/2 Lost to the Bears 27-23.

You beat me to it.

He did make some good points though. To me, JC has not proven much yet. I would rather him prove to be a consistent play maker that can throw for more than the 15 or so TD's he is on pace for. Dot get me wrong, i think he has been having a good year, and am glad he has avoided INT's and mistakes. But I hope/wish he could turn the corner and we could count on him throwing for 1 or 2 TD's every week like romo, farve, brees, warner, etc..

JSPB22 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:the Lions only competitive (non-blowout) loss was to the Redskins.

Hyperbole alert! Ignoring the inevitable mention of JC in your post, this is just wrong. Here's a list of Lions games that were closer than the Redskins game.

10/12 Lost to Vikings 12-10.
10/19 Lost to the Texans 28-21.
11/2 Lost to the Bears 27-23.

You beat me to it.

Hah!! You caught me......the statement was supposed to be "Lions only competitive (non-blowout) loss at home was to the Redskins, the others were Greenbay @ Detroit 48-25; Chicago @ Detroit 34-7 and Jacksonville @ Detroit 38-14. Between thinking and typing I simply missed the word "home". Great work detective. And therefore, all of the points are false? What transparent nonsense you constantly engage.

You really do have too much free time on your hands don't you? You just love to dissect my posts.....measure and inspect them with a microscope to find anything to latch onto. Why don't you just read the basic points of the discusion and agree or disagree. Or better yet, just make some point of your own.

RayNAustin wrote:This is not only a must win for the Redskins, it's a must perform for Campbell. The next 7 games will decide if Campbell is truly a franchise QB or just another stop gap measure in the search for one.

First of all, a sound argument can be made that every game is a must win.

As far as Campbell is concerned, he's already proven quite a bit. Campbell is currently the 8th rated QB in the league, has thrown the fewest interceptions of all starting QB's and has lead his team to a 6-3 record in the toughest division in football... all while learning a new offense once again. But I'm sure you'll come with more hyperbole, it's what you do.

Ray, please check your PM's.

SkinsFreak wrote:Ray, please check your PM's.

done.

RayNAustin wrote: Why don't you just read the basic points of the discusion and agree or disagree. Or better yet, just make some point of your own.

Because I've hopped on RayNAustin's JasonCampbell Carousel previously, and I know where it leads.

In circles.

SkinsFreak wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:This is not only a must win for the Redskins, it's a must perform for Campbell. The next 7 games will decide if Campbell is truly a franchise QB or just another stop gap measure in the search for one.

First of all, a sound argument can be made that every game is a must win.

As far as Campbell is concerned, he's already proven quite a bit. Campbell is currently the 8th rated QB in the league, has thrown the fewest interceptions of all starting QB's and has lead his team to a 6-3 record in the toughest division in football... all while learning a new offense once again. But I'm sure you'll come with more hyperbole, it's what you do.

The over use or misapplied use of "hyperbole" suggests the need to consult Websters.

As for Campbell, the only thing he's really proven so far is that he is inconsistent, with tendencies to go into protracted slumps, and failing to make the scoring plays in the Red Zone too often for comfort. Even for some of the games we won and he played well, the Red Zone issue is problematic (against the Saints and Cowboys we were 2 of 6 or 33% in the Red Zone in each game). I'm not suggesting that this is all Campbell's fault, just pointing out the facts, and those issues start and end with the QB.

Yes, he played well in 4 out of the first 5 games, but has been digressing, even against poor defenses where he should have had his better performances (aside from the Steelers). One would expect him to be improving, but we've seen this digressing act before....remember 2006-2007?

Now about this 8th rating? That's the QB rating that you have challenged the validity of when I've cited it? But it's OK when it suits your argument aye? The fact is, he's 12th passing, and the bottom 20% in TD's. But let's go with your rating......he's last in TDs of that group of 8 (along with Chad Pennington) with less than a single TD per game....that isn't good, especially since he's enjoyed having the NFL's leading rusher to support him. It's even worse when you look at the top 6 of those 8 who have more than doubled Campbell's TD per game with the exception of the injured rookie Rodgers who has 13..... 3 TD's shy of doubling it. So Campbell isn't even close to those QB's in reality.

Now the 2 ints is a good thing, but also says he might be leaving a lot on the table, playing too safe. You still have to score points, and sometimes that means taking risks. It also might explain why we have such low point production, being in the bottom 6th in scoring just ahead of Raiders,Rams,Bengals,Chiefs, and Lions.

But you go right ahead drinking the Kool Aid. I'm just going to wait and see. If Campbell doesn't step it up, and continues the lack luster performance of the past few games, we're in trouble.

Sure, Campbell has put up decent yards passing, good comp %, and low TO's, but he falls flat on his face when it comes to scoring. They call that all show and no go.

Defenses begin to play you that way....play you soft between the 20's, and then make you kick FG's, while their team scores TD's.

That's why this Cowboy game is the biggest game of the year, and a must win. We can't lose at home to the Cowboys and then expect to win the next 5 out of 6 just to get a wild card. We have the NYG, Balt, and Philly, and 3 games on the road against teams that have nothing to lose and will likely throw everything but the kitchen sink at us.

RayNAustin wrote:As for Campbell, the only thing he's really proven so far is that he is inconsistent, with tendencies to go into protracted slumps, and failing to make the scoring plays in the Red Zone too often for comfort. Even for some of the games we won and he played well, the Red Zone issue is problematic (against the Saints and Cowboys we were 2 of 6 or 33% in the Red Zone in each game). I'm not suggesting that this is all Campbell's fault, just pointing out the facts, and those issues start and end with the QB.

Yep, those two Rabach penalties in the Cowpies' game are all on Jason.

RayNAustin wrote:Now about this 8th rating? That's the QB rating that you have challenged the validity of when I've cited it? But it's OK when it suits your argument aye? The fact is, he's 12th passing, and the bottom 20% in TD's. But let's go with your rating......he's last in TDs of that group of 8 (along with Chad Pennington) with less than a single TD per game....that isn't good, especially since he's enjoyed having the NFL's leading rusher to support him. It's even worse when you look at the top 6 of those 8 who have more than doubled Campbell's TD per game with the exception of the injured rookie Rodgers who has 13..... 3 TD's shy of doubling it. So Campbell isn't even close to those QB's in reality.

Rodgers is a rookie? Starting for the first time in your career doesn't make you a rookie, Ray. This is, in fact, Rodgers 4th season in the NFL. And what difference does it make how you score a TD? If Portis runs the ball in from the 5, do you clench your teeth and say, "See, I knew Jason couldn't get the ball in the end-zone?" JC doesn't call the plays, and he has done a very good job managing games and getting us the W. He has also scrambled well, and made plays when his protection has broken down this year, which has been often.

RayNAustin wrote:Now the 2 ints is a good thing, but also says he might be leaving a lot on the table, playing too safe. You still have to score points, and sometimes that means taking risks. It also might explain why we have such low point production, being in the bottom 6th in scoring just ahead of Raiders,Rams,Bengals,Chiefs, and Lions.

I agree that the two INTs are a good thing, but not for the same reason as you. Now JC doesn't have to worry about keeping that streak going, and can take those risks that he might not have been taking earlier in the season. But this is a no-win situation for JC, because if he takes a risk, and gets another pick, you will deride him for that too.

RayNAustin wrote:But you go right ahead drinking the Kool Aid. I'm just going to wait and see. If Campbell doesn't step it up, and continues the lack luster performance of the past few games, we're in trouble.

You're going to wait and see... and hope and pray that he doesn't play well down the stretch, so you can point your finger and say, "See, I was right all along!" I honestly think you root against Campbell, just so you don't have to give him credit for his improvement this season. Even if we go all the way and Jason gets the MVP in the Super Bowl, you will give all the credit to Zorn for coaching him up, as if Jason didn't actually make the plays.

RayNAustin wrote:Sure, Campbell has put up decent yards passing, good comp %, and low TO's, but he falls flat on his face when it comes to scoring. They call that all show and no go.

Defenses begin to play you that way....play you soft between the 20's, and then make you kick FG's, while their team scores TD's.

I guess we don't have a defense to keep the other team from scoring TDs. But to your point, when the field gets shorter, it becomes more difficult to score through the passing game. And having the best RB in the game, means that the play caller (not JC, BTW) might be more apt to go with a run, rather than a pass, to try to score the TD.

RayNAustin wrote:That's why this Cowboy game is the biggest game of the year, and a must win. We can't lose at home to the Cowboys and then expect to win the next 5 out of 6 just to get a wild card. We have the NYG, Balt, and Philly, and 3 games on the road against teams that have nothing to lose and will likely throw everything but the kitchen sink at us.

Finally, your first valid point of the post!

PulpExposure wrote:

RayNAustin wrote: Why don't you just read the basic points of the discusion and agree or disagree. Or better yet, just make some point of your own.

Because I've hopped on RayNAustin's JasonCampbell Carousel previously, and I know where it leads.

In circles.

You know, I was actually going to respond to Ray's lengthy and mostly unfounded / inaccurate post regarding Campbell. Then I thought, Pulp is absolutely correct, we will just end up going round and round. Ray was wrong about JC before and I suspect he'll be wrong again.

RayNAustin wrote:Now about this 8th rating? That's the QB rating that you have challenged the validity of when I've cited it? But it's OK when it suits your argument aye? The fact is, he's 12th passing, and the bottom 20% in TD's. But let's go with your rating......he's last in TDs of that group of 8 (along with Chad Pennington) with less than a single TD per game....that isn't good, especially since he's enjoyed having the NFL's leading rusher to support him. It's even worse when you look at the top 6 of those 8 who have more than doubled Campbell's TD per game with the exception of the injured rookie Rodgers who has 13..... 3 TD's shy of doubling it. So Campbell isn't even close to those QB's in reality.

Although, this part was hilarious!

Yes Ray, the actual numbers kept by the NFL are fantasy while your assessments are the ones grounded in reality.

SkinsFreak wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

RayNAustin wrote: Why don't you just read the basic points of the discusion and agree or disagree. Or better yet, just make some point of your own.

Because I've hopped on RayNAustin's JasonCampbell Carousel previously, and I know where it leads.

In circles.

You know, I was actually going to respond to Ray's lengthy and mostly unfounded / inaccurate post regarding Campbell. Then I thought, Pulp is absolutely correct, we will just end up going round and round. Ray was wrong about JC before and I suspect he'll be wrong again.

It's OK guys, I picked his post apart for you.

I won't be doing it anymore, though, because it certainly does get tiresome arguing with someone who's predetermined conclusions don't allow for objectivity or reality.

As has already been pointed out, every game is a must win game


This game OR the result of this game OR the play of anyone in this game is not any more important OR indicative of anything. This is just as important as every division game we play.

When you think about it, we really will be in a much better position if we win this game but then, the same can be said for every game we play.

If we win its a W no matter how the QB plays or the defense plays.



As soon as this game is over, win or lose, next week's game will be a must win game.


and as soon as this game is over there will still be some who are predicting dire things for this team because our QB has not shown anything definitive .... yet :twisted: