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Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:01 pm
by Deadskins
Countertrey wrote:In fact, I dispute that Gore even lost the election.
Forget that virtually every non-partisan review has validated the results...
You and yours should take your cue from Richard Nixon, who, in 1960, was pushed to challenge the results in Cook County IL, which were pretty clearly fixed. This, and a few other areas, could have changed the election. He said no, and conceded the election. In other words, if NIXON can get over it (with a much better case), why can't you?
The irony is, in making his case, Gore went to the SON OF THE MAN WHO FIXED THE 1960 ELECTIONS IN CHICAGO!!!!
Now, clearly, Gore DID win the popular vote. Shame that's not how the President is determined, huh?
But, I'm sure you are OK with the thousands of absentee military votes that didn't get counted, huh? Can't have it both ways.
So when Jeb and Katherine Harris hired Choicepoint to incorrectly expunge 90,000 plus black persons from the Florida voting rolls, you were fine with that? Just politics as usual, I suppose. And when the Supreme Court took the unprecedented action of stepping in to stop the recounts, that was fine also? I'm not saying Democrats have never stolen elections, but I thought we were discussing better candidates for the 2000 election, not the 1960 one.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:06 pm
by Deadskins
Countertrey wrote:JSPB22 wrote:Countertrey wrote:I also dispute the butt kicking. In fact, I dispute that Gore even lost the election.
Read it again, and tell me who got his butt kicked.
Hmm, let's see... the average American?
Well, I would agree... as it was Dole... and therefore, the average American, who lost to the Clintons in 1996...
But I thought
Countertrey wrote:The economy was booming. Things were rosey...
How did the average American lose?
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:11 pm
by Cappster
I think the following link has some credence as to why Obama won:
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/index.php
Overall, McCain couldn't separate himself from Bush, didn't appeal to the younger generation, wasn't a great public speaker like Obama, he didn't spend enough money, etc etc etc.
We now have a democratic controlled congress and white house. Les see what they can do to help the Country and not hurt it. FYI, I didn' vote for McCain or Obama so my view is not from the red or blue.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:16 pm
by Deadskins
Cappster wrote:FYI, I didn' vote for McCain or Obama
Did you vote at all?
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 3:38 pm
by Cappster
JSPB22 wrote:Cappster wrote:FYI, I didn' vote for McCain or Obama
Did you vote at all?
Contrary to popular belief, voting for someone who doesn't vote for one of the major candidates DOES ACTUALLY VOTE. I've talked to people in the McCain camp and Obama camp and most of them don't believe in NOT voting for a candidate that has a chance to win. I like when people say "vote for the lesser of two evils." The way I look at that phrase is if you vote for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for evil.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:26 pm
by Irn-Bru
I didn't vote in the real election, and I won't in this one either.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 4:26 pm
by Irn-Bru
Cappster wrote:The way I look at that phrase is if you vote for the lesser of two evils, you are still voting for evil.
Heroic!
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 5:38 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
JSPB22 wrote:So when Jeb and Katherine Harris hired Choicepoint to incorrectly expunge 90,000 plus black persons from the Florida voting rolls, you were fine with that?
Proof? I mean other then the inherent truth of any statement supporting the Democrats.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 8:06 pm
by Fios
KazooSkinsFan wrote:JSPB22 wrote:So when Jeb and Katherine Harris hired Choicepoint to incorrectly expunge 90,000 plus black persons from the Florida voting rolls, you were fine with that?
Proof? I mean other then the inherent truth of any statement supporting the Democrats.
http://archive.salon.com/politics/featu ... print.html
Fine, upstanding folks at that company:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7024899/
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:08 pm
by Countertrey
Soooo, let's see... an acknowledged error based on bad info from another state is the equivalent of Gore's
deliberate effort to prevent the counting of thousands of military absentee votes. I see.
And when the Supreme Court took the unprecedented action of stepping in to stop the recounts, that was fine also?
My perspective sees that whole issue with the case taken to the USSC as a direct response to the FSC overstepping it's authority, and attempting to force a cherry picked recount in a political usurpation of executive authority. You see it as the USSC overstepping its authority. We will have to disagree.
I'm not saying Democrats have never stolen elections, but I thought we were discussing better candidates for the 2000 election, not the 1960 one.
Shame that you don't see the irony of having Mayor Daley show up in Florida to fight against vote fraud...
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:18 pm
by Fios
I didn't enter the argument homey, he asked for proof, I provided it. Harris is no saint, that's not debatable. Besides, what the Supreme Court did during that election bothers me far more than anything else.
Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2008 9:54 pm
by 1niksder
DEHog wrote:Um...he got more votes?
I'm going with this one
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 9:53 am
by Redskin in Canada
Interestingly ...
Obama eyes both sides of the aisle for transition team
President-elect Barack Obama was considering who will be on his transition team long before Tuesday's election declared him the nation's leader, and several Republicans were on the short list.
Obama is looking at many Democrats -- most notably, Rep. Rahm Emanuel, who helped choreograph the party's 2006 House takeover -- but he also is thinking about bringing GOP Sens. Chuck Hagel and Dick Lugar on board, according to sources close to the president-elect.
Hagel, R-Nebraska, is a Vietnam War veteran and fierce critic of the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war.
Lugar, R-Indiana, is minority leader of the Foreign Relations Committee and worked with Obama last year to expand a program aimed at destroying weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/ ... index.html
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:00 pm
by Countertrey
Redskin in Canada wrote:Interestingly ...
Obama eyes both sides of the aisle for transition team
President-elect Barack Obama was considering who will be on his transition team long before Tuesday's election declared him the nation's leader, and several Republicans were on the short list.
Obama is looking at many Democrats -- most notably, Rep. Rahm Emanuel, who helped choreograph the party's 2006 House takeover -- but he also is thinking about bringing GOP Sens. Chuck Hagel and Dick Lugar on board, according to sources close to the president-elect.
Hagel, R-Nebraska, is a Vietnam War veteran and fierce critic of the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war.
Lugar, R-Indiana, is minority leader of the Foreign Relations Committee and worked with Obama last year to expand a program aimed at destroying weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/ ... index.html
The real story here is the courting of Rahm Emanuel to be his Chief of Staff. Everything else here is pablum.
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:10 pm
by PulpExposure
Countertrey wrote:Redskin in Canada wrote:Interestingly ...
Obama eyes both sides of the aisle for transition team
President-elect Barack Obama was considering who will be on his transition team long before Tuesday's election declared him the nation's leader, and several Republicans were on the short list.
Obama is looking at many Democrats -- most notably, Rep. Rahm Emanuel, who helped choreograph the party's 2006 House takeover -- but he also is thinking about bringing GOP Sens. Chuck Hagel and Dick Lugar on board, according to sources close to the president-elect.
Hagel, R-Nebraska, is a Vietnam War veteran and fierce critic of the Bush administration's handling of the Iraq war.
Lugar, R-Indiana, is minority leader of the Foreign Relations Committee and worked with Obama last year to expand a program aimed at destroying weapons of mass destruction in the former Soviet Union.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/11/06/ ... index.html
The real story here is the courting of Rahm Emanuel to be his Chief of Staff. Everything else here is pablum.
Rahmbo took
the job.
The potential effect on Republicans aside (though it seems Lindsay Graham liked the choice) I think this was a clear message to Pelosi and Reid that they can't expect to roll Obama and get their way...
Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2008 11:26 pm
by Countertrey
Interesting (and creative) take.
Rahm is an attack dog, and Obama is not likely to turn him loose on his allies.
It really matters not to me... I'm already resolved to having my pockets rifled.
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:30 am
by PulpExposure
Countertrey wrote:Interesting (and creative) take.
Rahm is an attack dog, and Obama is not likely to turn him loose on his allies.
Rahm is most certainly an attack dog. I just think Pelosi (whom I abhor) probably thought with Obama, she could push her agenda. I think with Rahm now...she won't get that way.
Rahm's
ripped apart Democrats in the past. He's an attack dog, but he's an equal-opportunity attack dog.
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 10:37 am
by Cappster
Amount spent per vote:
Obama: 8.81 per person who voted for him.
McCain: 5.12 per person who voted for him.
Keep in mind that Obama had almost 8 million more votes so if we take
The Obama campaign spent 4.69 on each vote cast for McCain and Obama while the McCain campaign spent .41 on each vote cast.
I just think it is interesting to that money very well could have influenced a lot of people to vote the other way. Too bad for the both of them that they wasted a total of 13.93 on me.
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 11:04 am
by Countertrey
Rahm is most certainly an attack dog. I just think Pelosi (whom I abhor) probably thought with Obama, she could push her agenda. I think with Rahm now...she won't get that way.
"Fairy tales can come true,
It can happen to you..." Wishing is for children.
Rahm is most certainly an attack dog. I just think Pelosi (whom I abhor) probably thought with Obama, she could push her agenda. I think with Rahm now...she won't get that way.
You have a rather low threshold for what you consider "equal opportunity"...
I'll not buy it until I see him carrying her microscopic, Botox-laden heart on the end of a pike.
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:50 pm
by Deadskins
Obama is about to have his first press conference.
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:25 pm
by Countertrey
Good presser...
He's making it hard not to like him. That's bad... it's always easier to shred someone you don't like.
I didn't hear anything that will calm the market.
I didn't hear anything that reassures me that I'm not rich. He evaded that question.
An awful lot of what he said still sounds like it's from the mouth of Pelosi, Pulp... Who's paying for that crap?
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:34 pm
by PulpExposure
Countertrey wrote:[
I'll not buy it until I see him carrying her microscopic, Botox-laden heart on the end of a pike.
Man, I would love that.
Can't listen to the presser, but not surprised he sounds good. He's very bright (his family is outrageous; brother 1 is the NIH's chief bioethicist, with a MD/PhD from Harvard, and brother 2 is a Hollywood superagent, the rumored inspiration for Entourage's Ari Gold), and he's experienced to all get-out. Should sound like he knows exactly what he's doing.
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 4:55 pm
by Deadskins
Countertrey wrote:Good presser...
He's making it hard not to like him. That's bad... it's always easier to shred someone you don't like.
I didn't hear anything that will calm the market.
I didn't hear anything that reassures me that I'm not rich. He evaded that question.
An awful lot of what he said still sounds like it's from the mouth of Pelosi, Pulp... Who's paying for that crap?
The Dow is back up a little bit today.
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 5:40 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
You consider this "proof?"
- The first article by Greg Palast is "Proof?" You have to be kidding me. Have you ever read anything by this guy? He's constantly writing Republicans are the devil articles. It doesn't make him wrong, but that you go to a guy with a clear agenda as your "proof" demonstrates the pathetically weak argument you have. Hey Fios, Democrats eat babies. I'm sure I can dig up an article by Michael Savage to "prove" that.
If you don't know who he is, Google the guy. Again that he says it doesn't make it wrong, but that he's your go to guy shows you only get there with someone starting with an agenda.
- The second article says they are "investigating." Not a reputable source, MS-NBC, but even if you accept the entire article, all it says is there is reason to investigate these firms. Which actually makes sense to me, but to jump to that the article is proof on ANYTHING much less that it's "proof" of the assertion I questioned is dreaming.
Seriously, you consider these links to be "proof" that 90K people were wrongly expunged? That is LAUGHABLE. And sad, this post so clearly demonstrates the complete lack of logic and intellectual integrity exercised by the Left that gets people like the socialist Obama elected to cure our economy, market and energy "problems."
Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2008 7:26 pm
by Deadskins
KazooSkinsFan wrote:You consider this "proof?"
- The first article by Greg Palast is "Proof?" You have to be kidding me. Have you ever read anything by this guy? He's constantly writing Republicans are the devil articles. It doesn't make him wrong, but that you go to a guy with a clear agenda as your "proof" demonstrates the pathetically weak argument you have.
Palast is an excellent source. It's easy for you to say he has an agenda to try and discredit the link, but I challenge you to show any report he has ever given, in his career as either an investigative reporter or investigator of corporate fraud and racketeering, that contains a single untruth. Yes he has an agenda, and that is to expose corporate and political malfeasance.
Greg Palast is the author of the New York Times bestseller, "Armed Madhouse" (Penguin Paperback 2007). When Palast, an investigator of corporate fraud and racketeering, turned his skills to journalism, he was quickly recognized as, "The most important investigative reporter of our time" [Tribune Magazine] in Britain, where his first reports appeared on BBC television and in the Guardian newspapers.
Author of another New York Times bestseller, The Best Democracy Money Can Buy- Palast is best known in his native USA as the journalist who, for the Observer (UK), broke the story of how Jeb Bush purged thousands of Black Florida citizens from voter rolls before the 2000 election, thereby handing the White House to his brother George. His reports on the theft of election 2004, the spike of the FBI investigations of the bin Ladens before September 11, the secret State Department documents planning the seizure of Iraq's oil fields have won him a record six "Project Censored" for reporting the news American media doesn't want you to hear. "The top investigative journalist in the United States is persona non grata in his own country's media." [Asia Times.] He returned to America to report for Harper's Magazine.
Palast's Sam Spade style television and print expos'es about elections manipulations, War on Terror and globalization, as seen on BBC 's Newsnight and Amy Goodman's Democracy Now!
Palast, who has led investigations for government on three continents, has an academic side: the author of Democracy and Regulation, a seminal treatise on energy corporations and government control commissioned by the United Nations based on his lectures at Cambridge University and the University of Sao Paulo.
Beginning in the 1970s, having earned his degree in finance studying under Milton Friedman and free-trade luminaries, Palast went on to challenge their vision of a New Global Order, working for the United Steelworkers of America, the Enron workers' coalition in Latin America and consumer and environmental groups worldwide. As an investigator for the Chugach Natives of Alaska, he uncovered the oil company frauds which led to the grounding of the Exxon Valdez. His racketeering probe of a nuclear plant operator led to one of the largest jury judgments in US history
In 1998 Palast went undercover for Britain's Observer, worked his way inside the prime minister's inner circle and busted open Tony Blair's biggest scandal, "Lobbygate," chosen by Palast's press colleagues in the UK as "Story of the Year." As the Chicago Tribune said, became a "fanatic about documents--especially those marked "secret and confidential" from the locked file cabinets of the FBI, the World Bank, the US State Department and other closed-door operations of government and industry--which regularly find their way into Palast's hands. The inside information he obtained on Rev. Pat Robertson won him a nomination as Britain's top business journalist.
Palast, Guerrilla News Network's Guerrilla of the Year, is Patron of the Trinity College Philosophical Society, an honor previously held by Jonathan Swift and Oscar Wilde. His writings have won the Financial Times David Thomas Prize--and inspired the Eminem video, Mosh. "An American hero," said Martin Luther King III. In the BBC documentary, Bush Family Fortunes, Palast exposed George Bush Jr.'s dodging the Vietnam War draft. Greg Palast, says Noam Chomsky, "Upsets all the right people."
http://www.gregpalast.com/about-greg/