The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

HEROHAMO wrote:Its just a balanced offense. Portis is stronger then he was when he was in Denver , a little older and wiser as well.

The main reason Portis has better numbers is the offense is now balanced. Portis always ran hard and always was capable.

Against the Browns, we had 23 passes attempts and 36 rushes. That ain't balanced and it won't score a lot of points in today's NFL.

VetSkinsFan wrote:Didn't he drop some weight to get closer to his Denver playing weight as well?

He dropped a little but even more he converted mass that he put on to "bulk up" for JJG's scheme to muscule because he was told that the running game wouldn't change but that he would have more options once he got the ball...

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't see this as being a NEW Clinton Portis. This is the CP that was in Denver. The Denver CP had a balanced offensive system. He had a capable QB that could keep defenses stretched. He had an o-line making holes for him. Clinton hasn't gotten faster, if anything he's a step slower.

We had the RB, we had the line we just haven't had the passing attack since he's been here.

I will never forget what that Green Bay saftey said in 2005 when MB was at the helm. He stated that they ONLY played the run cus they knew we would NOT pass.

We didn't have the same CP that was in Denver even when JC took shots deep because "our Portis" wasn't given the freedom to bounce outside if the hold wasn't there or any other option once he got the ball.

Leadbelly wrote:I don't know if anyone remembers the summer but on Redskins.com they talked about Clinton spending the summer in the weight room. This was the first off season that he had ever lifted even back in college. I think there are of alot of other reasons as to his increase in production but I think overall he's just stronger than he's ever been.

Portis makes so much money he has to rework his contract almost every year to give the team cap space, so genius had bonus triggers based on him being in Ashburn and working out in addtion to mini-camps and OTAs

This might be why we are seeing the new old Portis, his earning his money year round again.

If we have 40 rushing plays and 20 passing plays and control both the clock and the scoreboard the result will generally be in our favor - we do not need to score many points - we just need to score more than the team we are playing each week - there is no bonus for scoring the most points or leading the league in passing or rushing - the only bonus is a chance to play in the playoffs and the teams with the most wins will be there.

I hope we see a really conservative ball control offense this week - we just need to score enough to win - there is no sense in looking like the patriots of 2007

This is one of my very first posts on this site, way back in 2004:

Fios wrote:I love Champ as much as the next guy but to be able to pick up a premier running back (the only back to average 5 or more yards per carry last year) at Portis's age for Champ and a second rounder seems more than reasonable to me. I don't see how that can be passed off as too steep a price considering the lessons Redskins fans re-learned last year and the depressing sight of Stephen Davis in the Super Bowl.

I'd say we -- conclusively -- got the best of that trade

Fios wrote:This is one of my very first posts on this site, way back in 2004:

Fios wrote:I love Champ as much as the next guy but to be able to pick up a premier running back (the only back to average 5 or more yards per carry last year) at Portis's age for Champ and a second rounder seems more than reasonable to me. I don't see how that can be passed off as too steep a price considering the lessons Redskins fans re-learned last year and the depressing sight of Stephen Davis in the Super Bowl.

I'd say we -- conclusively -- got the best of that trade

Especially if you add that Denver has one of the WORST passing defenses in the league this year. They are living up to that reputation against the Matt Casell Patriots! Champ is a good player, but the stats speak for themselves.

Fios wrote:This is one of my very first posts on this site, way back in 2004:

Fios wrote:I love Champ as much as the next guy but to be able to pick up a premier running back (the only back to average 5 or more yards per carry last year) at Portis's age for Champ and a second rounder seems more than reasonable to me. I don't see how that can be passed off as too steep a price considering the lessons Redskins fans re-learned last year and the depressing sight of Stephen Davis in the Super Bowl.

I'd say we -- conclusively -- got the best of that trade

Don't start

SkinsJock wrote:If we have 40 rushing plays and 20 passing plays and control both the clock and the scoreboard the result will generally be in our favor - we do not need to score many points - we just need to score more than the team we are playing each week - there is no bonus for scoring the most points or leading the league in passing or rushing - the only bonus is a chance to play in the playoffs and the teams with the most wins will be there.

I hope we see a really conservative ball control offense this week - we just need to score enough to win - there is no sense in looking like the patriots of 2007

That really isn't the point most people I see making. The point is that with the talent available, we shouldn't be sitting on the edge of our seats praying to the football gods that a 52 yard field goal is missed so we don't go in to overtime vs a 2-3 team. There's no reason why we shouldn't have a nice cushion in the 4th quarter. Every game we've played since week 2 has been decided by a touchdown or less. I think our team is much more capable than that.

FYI, we DID NOT control the clock last game. We actually lost the clock game, 31:08 - 28:52.

I don't think anyone is crazy enough to consider our ~20pts a game similar to the Pats last year. You're using extremes to make your point.

Those league leader titles will be another notch in the belt of individuals like CP to get in the Hall of Fame, so don't trivialize the stats completely.

Correct me if im wrong but i have noticed portis runs into the back of his blockers easily more than anyone in the league. Im not saying its a bad thing but almost every run play to the outside he seems to find away to slam into the back of his blockers.

num1skinsfan wrote:Healthy line, and play calling has defenses adjusting. I would like to see a little more vertical passing. Portis can't keep this pace up, no one can....

I disagree... Even though Clinton is getting alot of carries and rushing for a lot of yards, he's not taking alot of big hits. His body is where it needs to be now in turns of strength and stamina. Add to that that the O-line is giving him lanes to run through. Over the last few games, CP has busted at least one or two 20+ yard runs wide open.

I won't say it's not possible that he won't get injured but looking at body of work thus far, I think he will have a relatively healthy season.

That doesn't seem to be a bad thing, does it??

Leading the league in rushing????

its hard to tackle someone around a 300 lb man. That said, I hope he doesn't injure a lineman that way.

o i dont know if its a bad thing i guess it means hes folowing his blocks, but it does seem to stop him cold alot when it looks like there would have been alot more yards avaliable.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Its just a balanced offense. Portis is stronger then he was when he was in Denver , a little older and wiser as well.

The main reason Portis has better numbers is the offense is now balanced. Portis always ran hard and always was capable.

Against the Browns, we had 23 passes attempts and 36 rushes. That ain't balanced and it won't score a lot of points in today's NFL.

I am not talking about just one game. I am talking about the whole season so far. We have a much better passing game to compliment our running game this year.

The Browns game I did not like so much. I thought we should have taken some more playaction shots deep. It looked alot like the 2004-2007 Redskins. The Rams game was alot of Portis as well.

I dont mind Portis getting his yardage but I rather have a balanced attack like the previous games.

Really I think teams are just doubling Moss alot more now. They also keep a spy on ey a lot. So what was there in the beginning of the year is not there as much now. Which is why I was hoping for one of the rookies to mature already.

Randle El is surprising me this year but still needs more as far as production goes.

He was always a patient runner back to college but the last couple of years he lost a lot of it due to scheme and nagging injuries. At Miami he was most patient college runner I had seen.

It may seem to stop him cold but there are also occasions that will allow him to break a big one because of it.

Portis leads the league in rushes over 20yds. He hasn't broken the big one yet, but it is coming. I just want him to continue to do what he is doing.

FYI, we DID NOT control the clock last game. We actually lost the clock game, 31:08 - 28:52.

You need to put an asterisk there... that differential is mostly due to 7 plays from the 1 yard line!

Not really. He sometimes tries to hit a closed hole between two guys, or maybe he hangs on to a blocker's jersey, staying as close behind him as possible. But that's not the same as running into his blocker's backs.

SkinsJock wrote:I hope we see a really conservative ball control offense this week - we just need to score enough to win - there is no sense in looking like the patriots of 2007

VetSkinsFan wrote:That really isn't the point most people I see making. The point is that with the talent available, we shouldn't be sitting on the edge of our seats praying to the football gods that a 52 yard field goal is missed so we don't go in to overtime vs a 2-3 team. There's no reason why we shouldn't have a nice cushion in the 4th quarter. Every game we've played since week 2 has been decided by a touchdown or less. I think our team is much more capable than that.

FYI, we DID NOT control the clock last game. We actually lost the clock game, 31:08 - 28:52.

I am not against scoring more points and I agree that we should not have to worry about a team missing a FG. BUT - Even if they had made that FG after what we had seen happen down on that goal line - that D was not going to let them be able to have another opportunity to win


We should score more points but not just to score points - we just need to max out our time of possession and score more points than the other team - I think a controlled ground game that uses a pass to keep the defenders off the line of scrimmage is far better than a really good passing game that uses the running game. I don't care about scoring or stats - I just want the win. Teams that are more pass oriented are not as successful in my opinion as teams that have a great running game and can use a passing game to make that ground game even better.

I don't think anyone is crazy enough to consider our ~20pts a game similar to the Pats last year. You're using extremes to make your point.

I was not referring to their points per game BUT more to the fact that they scored more points than they needed to win the game.
I am certain that our coaches and players are a lot more interested in wins than looking as good as they possibly can which at times is what the Patriots of last year seemed to be doing. You do not need to beat teams in the manner that the Patriots did to some teams last year.

Those league leader titles will be another notch in the belt of individuals like CP to get in the Hall of Fame, so don't trivialize the stats completely.

I am sorry that you feel like that - I could care less about the HOF - the HOF should recognize everyone that deserves to be there - for players to feel that they should be allowed to pad their stats when they get a chance to in order to look good for the HOF is ridiculous to me.

Actually, IF I were an owner of a team that was playing well together as a team and I had a player indicate that he needed better stats to help him get into the HOF - I would get rid of him to show him that the team's success is a result of all the players playing together not because of any individuals stats.

I think there is too much emphasis on individual recognition rather than team success - Pro Bowl election is a case in point - I would rather have no Redskins in the Pro Bowl or the whole team - no player deserves to go there without the group around him that made it possible.


We are hopefully going to have a great season and that is more due to everyone not to a few guys having a good year.

How lucky are we not to have a bunch of those superstars that a lot of fans here wanted - there is no way anyone can convince me that we would be a better team with Randy Moss, TO, Kellen Winslow, any WR named Williams or any of the star offensive or defensive lineman that many were clamouring for - this is a team and we are showing that it is better to have players that make each other better than players with HOF stats whose teams are imploding because those players are just playing for themselves and not the team.

HAIL

Countertrey wrote:

FYI, we DID NOT control the clock last game. We actually lost the clock game, 31:08 - 28:52.

You need to put an asterisk there... that differential is mostly due to 7 plays from the 1 yard line!

How bad was that use of the clock for them - that series started with something like 7 plus minutes to go and took forever
Romeo made a really bad decision not kicking a FG there - he knew he had to take a chance because his team was not in control of that game. He tried to steal a win - he knew they could not earn it

SkinsJock wrote:

Countertrey wrote:

FYI, we DID NOT control the clock last game. We actually lost the clock game, 31:08 - 28:52.

You need to put an asterisk there... that differential is mostly due to 7 plays from the 1 yard line!

How bad was that use of the clock for them - that series started with something like 7 plus minutes to go and took forever
Romeo made a really bad decision not kicking a FG there - he knew he had to take a chance because his team was not in control of that game. He tried to steal a win - he knew they could not earn it

They definitely took their time to fail.

1niksder wrote:

Fios wrote:This is one of my very first posts on this site, way back in 2004:

Fios wrote:I love Champ as much as the next guy but to be able to pick up a premier running back (the only back to average 5 or more yards per carry last year) at Portis's age for Champ and a second rounder seems more than reasonable to me. I don't see how that can be passed off as too steep a price considering the lessons Redskins fans re-learned last year and the depressing sight of Stephen Davis in the Super Bowl.

I'd say we -- conclusively -- got the best of that trade

Don't start

I have to say that my own feelings on this matter have changed. Sometimes in an NFL trade both teams benefit and neither got the 'better' end of the deal. I now think that about the Champ / Pick - Portis trade.

But I digress. . .

HEROHAMO wrote:Its just a balanced offense. Portis is stronger then he was when he was in Denver , a little older and wiser as well.

The main reason Portis has better numbers is the offense is now balanced. Portis always ran hard and always was capable.

Well put. I don't think CP runs any harder now than he did for the Broncos either; I believe he was just as hard-nosed in his rookie campaign as he is now. I can't be sure of that however. I do see a maturity in his running that wasn't there before. He is more patient waiting for things to develop; at the same time he knows when to just bust the LoS (eg, 3rd/4th and short) for the tough yards.

Pulp alluded to his seeming to be stronger this year. He may be -- it's difficult for we the fans to know for sure. Tell you what: he's not the prototypical "power" back in size. He's listed at 223 on the roster but I'd say he was closer to 215 max. Still, he rarely IF EVER runs for negative yards, and always finishes runs going forward, not being pushed back. That's impressive.

Anybody who's got a lick of sense should no longer be questioning the man's off-season regimen, or lack thereof. He brings it on Sundays in the fall, and that's what counts.

CP is leading the league in rushing, and 20+ yard runs. If he's running into the backs of his linemen more easily than any other RB...I think more position coaches should start teaching their guys to "climb thunderbutt mountain" as well -

I don't think it's patience. I think he moved a step or two back from the offensive line, meaning he's hitting the hole with the same speed, but it takes an extra split second to get to the line so the play has a little longer to develop.