The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Californiaskin wrote:panther land?????? All that carolina country is actually skins land......shoot we were winning superbows before they ever even thought of any panthers.....

Tell me about it. Check out my posted rants to CBS, Fox, etc. trying to explain to the Network suits about the history of the NFL and the Skins as it relates to most of the South. I rue the day the Pussy-Cats were awarded an NFL franchise.

yeah stupid panthers...and keeping to the topic frikken sean alexander???????? To bad we could not have signed Christian Okoye or Eric Dickerson or.....I know Jim Browns still kickin it.........OJs not in jail yet (but I heard hes close to signing with the Cowboys!)

Californiaskin wrote:yeah stupid panthers...and keeping to the topic frikken sean alexander???????? To bad we could not have signed Christian Okoye or Eric Dickerson or.....I know Jim Browns still kickin it.........OJs not in jail yet (but I heard hes close to signing with the Cowboys!)

What? Earl Campbell's not available?

.............Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George, Prime Time........precedent has been set!

Californiaskin wrote:.............Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, Jeff George, Prime Time........precedent has been set!

Marco Coleman, Dana Stubblefield, Daryl Gardener, Jeremiah Trotter, Jessie Armstead, Dan Wilkinson, Sam Shade, Larry Centers, Irving Fryar, Andre Reed

Dan Wilkinson's rumble down the field for a TD against the Bear's makes his signing worth more than his weight in gold.. never have I cheered so hard and for so long waiting for a player to score a TD..

let me me know when he crosses the goal line ( sorry for getting off topic)

Maybe he's recovered from his injuries!!! I'll stay positive and hopeful that Zorn knows what he is doing... He has given me no reason to doubt him, yet.

Try as I might, I just can't understand some of the 'mentalities' expressed here, i'll glance over a few...

1) How do you even compare 'blockbuster offseason free agent signings' like Bruce Smith, Jeff George, etc - to picking up an unemployed running back at what appears to be, at league minimum?

The first group affects your cap for years, the latter can be cut without it really costing you a dime.

2) We DON'T know what the terms of the contract were, but it WAS reported the day before that the Skins would OFFER a vet min contract - so chances are, that's close to what we offered. We didn't have enough cap space to offer anything but something close to vet min, so it had to be on the cheap regardless.

3) If it WAS at league min, I just can't see ANY scenario by which this is a bad move. And please keep in mind that on a personal level, I really don't like Alexander much - he's related to Tiki Barber and that's a big enough 'strike' for me.

But when you can get a former MVP to sign for what might equate to 450,000 per year cap - you do it!

5) I know nobody wants to hear it but maybe the reason Alexander was unemployed was because he wanted MORE than league minimum. Perhaps it was the circumstance of re-uniting with a coach that knows him AND having been unemployed for 7 weeks that made him change his mind. Maybe he NEVER agreed to play for league min until the Skins made the offer.

6) You just can't even compare this to the Duckett deal - there were no DRAFT SELECTIONS given up to get Alexander. GETTING Duckett wasn't a mistake - getting him by giving up a draft pick was the mistake.

7) Some rookie RB (on the PS of another team) does not have more 'upside' than Shaun Alexander. To make that leap of faith, then you have to also be making the leap that Alexander is done. Now - I'm not judging it one way or another - but being a former league MVP that has lost his form does not make someone devoid of upside. This magical 'upside' term refers to basically what the player COULD be, and Alexander COULD be MVP if he returned to form. Not saying it will happen or even putting a vote of confidence in it, I'm just saying that upside ranks potential, and I think a guy four years removed from MVP has some possible upside too.

To me, it always boils down to the WORST CASE scenario vs. the BEST CASE scenario, in this instance:

Worst case - Alexander IS done, stinks up the practice field or even the game field and is cut. Being that he wasn't under some big backloaded, bonus heavy contract, we can do so at little to no impact on the cap. Not exactly a big 'downside'.

Best case - Alexander isn't done and uses this opportunity to show everyone that he isn't. He spells Portis as his only major 'job' and maybe even becomes more of a threat receiving out of the backfield than anyone currently on the roster.


This isn't some Snyderratto offseason spending spree, this was a mid-season band aid brought about by the injury to Betts - one that appears to cost very little and provides an adequate solution to the next 2 or 3 games while we wait and see how Betts recovers.

I personally struggle to see how it isn't worthwhile of 'taking a flyer' on.

Wahoo McDaniels wrote:Does the name TJ Duckett mean anything to anybody? The last high profile RB to come over to the Skins to not live up to expectations.

I really dislike this move. Something like this could really destroy the chemistry of the team...especially since Portis and Betts are really close.

Does it matter to anyone that the "bust" TJ Duckett was held in such high regard that HE was one of the guys brought in to replace Alexander??? So the team that knows SA the best thinks Duckett is currently the better player.

This signing is purely for convenience. SA knows the offense, so he won't have to learn a new offense with different terminology. He can be plugged in right away, as for his physical capabilities.....I'm not sure.

Does anybody know how this signing will affect the salary cap, if at all???

on a limited role i like the signing ..

it,s worth a shot..

BossHog wrote:Try as I might, I just can't understand some of the 'mentalities' expressed here, i'll glance over a few...


3) If it WAS at league min, I just can't see ANY scenario by which this is a bad move. And please keep in mind that on a personal level, I really don't like Alexander much - he's related to Tiki Barber and that's a big enough 'strike' for me.
But when you can get a former MVP to sign for what might equate to 450,000 per year cap - you do it!

I didn't know they were related. I know Shaun Alexander looks like the Barber twins. I saw this article.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/p ... arber1212/

I am starting to come around to what you saying Boss, I don't see how this could hurt. At first I was wondering why we are the only team to make him an offer but based on his working knowledge of the offense, and a relatively minimal impact on the salary cap I don't see this as much of a risk.

I'm excited to see what he can do for us when he's up to speed. Just going out on a whim and assuming he can get back up to the level he was at, this could become the most devastating tandem in the league.

But it prolly won't happen that way. LOLOLOL. Either way, I don't see the harm in having him. The guy helps us by hopefully being a decent backup, we help him by giving him an audition.

To be honest, he'll prolly give us all he has because he wants to get signed by someone long term.

Californiaskin wrote:yeah stupid panthers...and keeping to the topic frikken sean alexander???????? To bad we could not have signed Christian Okoye or Eric Dickerson or.....I know Jim Browns still kickin it.........OJs not in jail yet (but I heard hes close to signing with the Cowboys!)

Sammy Baugh's still alive. Let's sign him to be our punter! No difference to me, to the Skins signing Alexander to play RB when he clearly can't play anymore. (a little extreme of an example, I'll admit, but the idea is sound)

I know this is a low risk move, but we did have to cut someone to sign him, so it isn't w/o cost.

One thing to remember is, even in his prime SA was a bad pass blocker.

skinsfan#33 wrote:Sammy Baugh's still alive. Let's sign him to be our punter! No difference to me, to the Skins signing Alexander to play RB when he clearly can't play anymore. (a little extreme of an example, I'll admit, but the idea is sound)

I know this is a low risk move, but we did have to cut someone to sign him, so it isn't w/o cost.

One thing to remember is, even in his prime SA was a bad pass blocker.

Poor sarcasm aside, signing a 95-year old and a 31-year old are not exactly the same thing.

The Skins didn't sign Alexander to 'play RB,' they signed him as insurance as the THIRD running back. Rock will back up Portis this weekend and the ONLY thing that would flip Cartwright and Alexander's 2-3 status would be if Alexander performed extremely well in practice or in a game. Portis is still going to get the ball 30 or so times.

So we had to cut somebody to take a flyer on a back-up RB. The guy that got cut, Justin Hamilton, admitted to 'stealing a pay check' since he was on the sidelines in street clothes every game. So where is the harm in losing a guy who wasn't even dressed. Now for a few weeks, it'll be Betts that is in street clothes.

I also don't understand how its a known factor that Alexander 'clearly can't play' anymore. The Hawks cut him because he was injured and couldn't play to the calibre of the $62M contract that they gave him. I don't see how its a foregone conclusion that some time off and not getting the ball 370 times a year might freshen him up a little bit and give him an opportunity to be successful in this situation. Being 'worth' $60M and being 'worth' league minimum are just two polar opposites that shouldn't be compared IMO.

It isn't a foregone conclusion that Alexander WILL be able to play either - please don't misunderstand me - I just think that given the 'cost' to find out, it was well worth taking a shot.

I think signing Alexander is a good move. He's not here to start, he's here for Portis to catch his breath. He won't take 2 weeks to learn the offense and can help out right away.

If Mason had signed to the Redskin practice squad instead of the Rasin's maybe he would have been the replacement.

Just been reading the last 2 pages and some of these posts are amazing

Boss made (I thought) an effort to clarify the situation and there are still some questioning the move.

I am not a Shaun (not Sean) Alexander fan either but this is a no brainer If he does not make the plays needed we will try plan B - simple as that - and IF he helps, it still cost us a relatively small amount.

He's here - he might just decide to show everyone else why he was the MVP - he might have a little extra incentive to have one more payday - IF he makes some plays here, he might just get whatever he was holding out for the last 7 weeks

give him a chance ..... and give him your support - he's a Redskin

BossHog wrote:Try as I might, I just can't understand some of the 'mentalities' expressed here, i'll glance over a few...

1) How do you even compare 'blockbuster offseason free agent signings' like Bruce Smith, Jeff George, etc - to picking up an unemployed running back at what appears to be, at league minimum?

The first group affects your cap for years, the latter can be cut without it really costing you a dime.

2) We DON'T know what the terms of the contract were, but it WAS reported the day before that the Skins would OFFER a vet min contract - so chances are, that's close to what we offered. We didn't have enough cap space to offer anything but something close to vet min, so it had to be on the cheap regardless.

3) If it WAS at league min, I just can't see ANY scenario by which this is a bad move. And please keep in mind that on a personal level, I really don't like Alexander much - he's related to Tiki Barber and that's a big enough 'strike' for me.

But when you can get a former MVP to sign for what might equate to 450,000 per year cap - you do it!

5) I know nobody wants to hear it but maybe the reason Alexander was unemployed was because he wanted MORE than league minimum. Perhaps it was the circumstance of re-uniting with a coach that knows him AND having been unemployed for 7 weeks that made him change his mind. Maybe he NEVER agreed to play for league min until the Skins made the offer.

6) You just can't even compare this to the Duckett deal - there were no DRAFT SELECTIONS given up to get Alexander. GETTING Duckett wasn't a mistake - getting him by giving up a draft pick was the mistake.

7) Some rookie RB (on the PS of another team) does not have more 'upside' than Shaun Alexander. To make that leap of faith, then you have to also be making the leap that Alexander is done. Now - I'm not judging it one way or another - but being a former league MVP that has lost his form does not make someone devoid of upside. This magical 'upside' term refers to basically what the player COULD be, and Alexander COULD be MVP if he returned to form. Not saying it will happen or even putting a vote of confidence in it, I'm just saying that upside ranks potential, and I think a guy four years removed from MVP has some possible upside too.

To me, it always boils down to the WORST CASE scenario vs. the BEST CASE scenario, in this instance:

Worst case - Alexander IS done, stinks up the practice field or even the game field and is cut. Being that he wasn't under some big backloaded, bonus heavy contract, we can do so at little to no impact on the cap. Not exactly a big 'downside'.

Best case - Alexander isn't done and uses this opportunity to show everyone that he isn't. He spells Portis as his only major 'job' and maybe even becomes more of a threat receiving out of the backfield than anyone currently on the roster.


This isn't some Snyderratto offseason spending spree, this was a mid-season band aid brought about by the injury to Betts - one that appears to cost very little and provides an adequate solution to the next 2 or 3 games while we wait and see how Betts recovers.

I personally struggle to see how it isn't worthwhile of 'taking a flyer' on.

QFT

I also don't understand how its a known factor that Alexander 'clearly can't play' anymore. The Hawks cut him because he was injured and couldn't play to the calibre of the $62M contract that they gave him. I don't see how its a foregone conclusion that some time off and not getting the ball 370 times a year might freshen him up a little bit and give him an opportunity to be successful in this situation. Being 'worth' $60M and being 'worth' league minimum are just two polar opposites that shouldn't be compared IMO.

When a running back average only 3.6 and 3.5 ypc in back-to-back seasons, it's usually a pretty strong sign that he doesn't have much left in the tank.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I also don't understand how its a known factor that Alexander 'clearly can't play' anymore. The Hawks cut him because he was injured and couldn't play to the calibre of the $62M contract that they gave him. I don't see how its a foregone conclusion that some time off and not getting the ball 370 times a year might freshen him up a little bit and give him an opportunity to be successful in this situation. Being 'worth' $60M and being 'worth' league minimum are just two polar opposites that shouldn't be compared IMO.

When a running back average only 3.6 and 3.5 ypc in back-to-back seasons, it's usually a pretty strong sign that he doesn't have much left in the tank.

You still didn't address the point, he didn't say the original cut was a poor decision, simply that we can't know, conclusively, that he's done.

I think this could be a good move. Im sure we didnt spend more than the Vet. minimum, he says he is healthy, and hopefully he is hungry or has a little chip on his sholder from everyone calling him soft and not being able to land with a team only 2 year removed from his MVP season. That being said, i too think he is soft and always has been. Time will tell

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I also don't understand how its a known factor that Alexander 'clearly can't play' anymore. The Hawks cut him because he was injured and couldn't play to the calibre of the $62M contract that they gave him. I don't see how its a foregone conclusion that some time off and not getting the ball 370 times a year might freshen him up a little bit and give him an opportunity to be successful in this situation. Being 'worth' $60M and being 'worth' league minimum are just two polar opposites that shouldn't be compared IMO.

When a running back average only 3.6 and 3.5 ypc in back-to-back seasons, it's usually a pretty strong sign that he doesn't have much left in the tank.

There are a lot more factors that go into a ypc than "the back is done." A RB's success (or failure) is directed affected by the way the rest of the team is performing.

VetSkinsFan wrote:There are a lot more factors that go into a ypc than "the back is done." A RB's success (or failure) is directed affected by the way the rest of the team is performing.

Exactly! Clinton's success this year comes from numerous factors.

1. A competent passing offense that unclogs the running lanes.
2. A healthy offensive line.
3. Santana Moss vertically stretching the field/defense.
4. Santana Moss being doubled a lot and often taking 2 defenders with him.
5. Awesome blocking by the line.
6. Awesome play calling, running when we should be passing and vice versa.
7. Clintons work that he put in during the offseason.
8. Clintons vision and continued maturity.

Yeah, I can see this as Zorn and Mitchell making this move happen. I'm not sure I'd risk picking him up as a starter, but getting him as depth for cheap seems to be okay.

Wasn't SA more of a finesse back anyway? I mean didn't he hit the holes, and do the stutter-steps and spins, that kind of thing? Maybe some of our runners (and especially our punt returner) might learn a thing or two from him.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I also don't understand how its a known factor that Alexander 'clearly can't play' anymore. The Hawks cut him because he was injured and couldn't play to the calibre of the $62M contract that they gave him. I don't see how its a foregone conclusion that some time off and not getting the ball 370 times a year might freshen him up a little bit and give him an opportunity to be successful in this situation. Being 'worth' $60M and being 'worth' league minimum are just two polar opposites that shouldn't be compared IMO.

When a running back average only 3.6 and 3.5 ypc in back-to-back seasons, it's usually a pretty strong sign that he doesn't have much left in the tank.

Unbelievable that you reduced my post to just that.

Stats often don't mean anything. What was Alexander's best YPC in any season where he was used to spell another back as opposed to being the featured back? There aren't any statistics to even gauge that on... and yet that is the situation that we are in.

Not to mention that my (seemingly completely missed by you) point was that even if he 'has nothing left in the tank,' it costs us virtually nothing. You may be right, he may be done - that doesn't change that we took a cheap flyer on a 3rd string RB for the next few weeks - what's the big deal?

Its not like I'm not on record stating firmly how much I disagree with some of the decisions made by our front office.

But this is a good move by the FO. It costs nothing - it fills a void, and on top of that, Snyderatto even got some good publicity out of it because of Alexander's former high profile.

BossHog wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I also don't understand how its a known factor that Alexander 'clearly can't play' anymore. The Hawks cut him because he was injured and couldn't play to the calibre of the $62M contract that they gave him. I don't see how its a foregone conclusion that some time off and not getting the ball 370 times a year might freshen him up a little bit and give him an opportunity to be successful in this situation. Being 'worth' $60M and being 'worth' league minimum are just two polar opposites that shouldn't be compared IMO.

When a running back average only 3.6 and 3.5 ypc in back-to-back seasons, it's usually a pretty strong sign that he doesn't have much left in the tank.

Unbelievable that you reduced my post to just that.

Stats often don't mean anything.

Or there are a whole bunch of other things to look at besides just the raw ypc in determining if a RB can play. For example, Thomas Jones started his career with 3.3, 3.4, 3.7 averages in Arizona, but left for Tampa, and had 4.6 ypc, and then 4.0 ypc or more the next 3 seasons in Chicago.

Did he suddenly become a better RB, or did he find a better offensive-line to run behind? Do you think that Alexander's injuries, or playing behind an injured offensive line in Seattle maybe had something to do with his drastic reduction in production?

I mean, I don't think the guy is a great RB (and never have, he's always been too soft for my tastes), but stats don't always tell the entire story.