Rodgers or Campbell????

[HEROHAMO]

In the 2005 NFL Draft, if you could've traded up to get a QB, would you have traded up to get Jason Campbell or Aaron Rodgers. Realizing that Rodgers would have had to learn the new offensive schemes that Jason Campbell has had to, who would you guys honestly have chosen. I know that Aaron has only played in like 3-4 games and is only starting his 1st game right now, but he's looking good. He's 6'2'' and has a quick release and stride. He seems to be a good fit for the WCO, which the Packers sort-of run. I know that some administrator will move this to Fantasyland, but I think it's a cool topic to talk about.

This post is not to demean or belittle J-Camp, I am still a fan of him and I am optimistic that he can have a productive year. I think with more reps in a game will help him hit a stride and I also think that Zorn could start using more shot-gun formations and call more passing plays to get him comfortable.

That is only one game.

Trust me Aaron Rodgers is the next Rob Johnson.

[RayNAustin]

There is no doubt that Rodgers had some serious advantages over Jason Campbell.

He not only spent 3 years immersed in the same system, but also got to learn that system from a (future first-ballot hall-of-fame) veteran QB.

I'm not terribly worried about Campbell, he just need to be given the time to hone his skills to this new offense. If what I'm hearing is true, Hasselbeck was a little wild his first year with Zorn also.

I think playing two years in a system at least equals reading a book for three years.

And Favre didn't teach boo to Rogers. I heard Favre myself (was rather shocked in fact) say " I'm not here to teach him (Rodgers) anything. That's a coach's job. I'm here to play. Coaches teach, and players play."

I guarantee you Campbell got a lot more support and mentoring from Brunell than Rodgers got from Favre. That's a fact.

[spudstr04]

There is no doubt that Rodgers had some serious advantages over Jason Campbell.

He not only spent 3 years immersed in the same system, but also got to learn that system from a (future first-ballot hall-of-fame) veteran QB.

I'm not terribly worried about Campbell, he just need to be given the time to hone his skills to this new offense. If what I'm hearing is true, Hasselbeck was a little wild his first year with Zorn also.

Zorn took over the QB job in Seattle in 2001. Hasselbeck played in 13 games and had 7 Tds and 8 Ints with a 70.9 rating

In 2002, he took over the QB job from Trent Dilfer and threw for over 3,000 yards with 15 TDs and 10 INTs and had a rating of 87.8

In his third year as a QB with Zorn, in 2003, Hasselbeck threw for over 3,800 yards with 26 TDs and 15 INTs and a rating of 88.8


~~~If you look at his stats, Hasselbeck took about 2 years to develop into the pro-bowl star he has been lately. If Zorn, the front-office, and the fan-base can wait and live with some growing pains, then Campbell should be okay. Hasselbeck is 6'4'' Campbell is 6'5''. So the tall, long release thing can be fixed. I hope that he can be a great QB and live up to the expectations of the fans and the Redskins organization.

http://www.nfl.com/players/matthasselbeck/careerstats?id=HAS536799

[Thundersloth]

And Favre didn't teach boo to Rogers. I heard Favre myself (was rather shocked in fact) say " I'm not here to teach him (Rodgers) anything.


Ray, maybe Favre didn't DIRECTLY teach him anything. Rodgers isn't dumb, he can observe and learn from a Hall of Fame QB like Favre. I think they mentioned something like that last night when Jaws talked about how Rodgers keeps his head looking straight down the middle of the field so the DB's don't know which side his primary receiver is on.

[spudstr04]

There is no doubt that Rodgers had some serious advantages over Jason Campbell.

He not only spent 3 years immersed in the same system, but also got to learn that system from a (future first-ballot hall-of-fame) veteran QB.

I'm not terribly worried about Campbell, he just need to be given the time to hone his skills to this new offense. If what I'm hearing is true, Hasselbeck was a little wild his first year with Zorn also.

Zorn took over the QB job in Seattle in 2001. Hasselbeck played in 13 games and had 7 Tds and 8 Ints with a 70.9 rating

In 2002, he took over the QB job from Trent Dilfer and threw for over 3,000 yards with 15 TDs and 10 INTs and had a rating of 87.8

In his third year as a QB with Zorn, in 2003, Hasselbeck threw for over 3,800 yards with 26 TDs and 15 INTs and a rating of 88.8


~~~If you look at his stats, Hasselbeck took about 2 years to develop into the pro-bowl star he has been lately. If Zorn, the front-office, and the fan-base can wait and live with some growing pains, then Campbell should be okay. Hasselbeck is 6'4'' Campbell is 6'5''. So the tall, long release thing can be fixed. I hope that he can be a great QB and live up to the expectations of the fans and the Redskins organization.

http://www.nfl.com/players/matthasselbeck/careerstats?id=HAS536799

If Jason Campbell can put up the numbers Hasselbeck did in his first season as the starter (2002), then I would be happy with that. 15-17 TD and 10 or less INTs would be productive,but not extraordinary. I have already said that a 2007 David Garrard type season would be welcomed by me.

[SkinsFreak]

What if Campbell puts up horrible numbers and we still win games? What if Campbell puts up great numbers and we still lose games? For some folks, comfort is always having someone to blame.

[Thundersloth]

What if Campbell puts up horrible numbers and we still win games? What if Campbell puts up great numbers and we still lose games? For some folks, comfort is always having someone to blame.

Amen Freak, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Flacco threw for less yardage BUT WON this past Sunday. The only numbers I'm worried about are the ones in the Win and Loss columns.

Of course a running game wouldn't hurt.

I think Zorn may need to script some plays, maybe the first 10 or so, to get people like CP and ey involved in the game early. What do you guys think???

[Snout]

Quite honestly, I would never draft a QB in the first round. Too much of a crapshoot. Same goes for wide receivers and running backs.

[markshark84]

What if Campbell puts up horrible numbers and we still win games? What if Campbell puts up great numbers and we still lose games? For some folks, comfort is always having someone to blame.

Amen Freak, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. Flacco threw for less yardage BUT WON this past Sunday. The only numbers I'm worried about are the ones in the Win and Loss columns.

Of course a running game wouldn't hurt.

I think Zorn may need to script some plays, maybe the first 10 or so, to get people like CP and ey involved in the game early. What do you guys think???

In the WCO, the pass opens up the run; so for us to have a running game, we need the passing game to work initially. Having CP involved on more plays earlier would compromise the WCO style of offense.

In terms of the numbers, if JC were putting up good numbers and scoring points -- then the entire JC talk would end and the focus would turn to the defense (because they would now be the ones losing games for us). But for right now, the focus is on JC because he is the one that isn't producing. And yes, there will always be someone to blame unless you are winning -- which we aren't. When you lose, it shows you are deficient in something. Right now, that deficiency is in offense, in particular, passing offense.

[HEROHAMO]

And Favre didn't teach boo to Rogers. I heard Favre myself (was rather shocked in fact) say " I'm not here to teach him (Rodgers) anything.


Ray, maybe Favre didn't DIRECTLY teach him anything. Rodgers isn't dumb, he can observe and learn from a Hall of Fame QB like Favre. I think they mentioned something like that last night when Jaws talked about how Rodgers keeps his head looking straight down the middle of the field so the DB's don't know which side his primary receiver is on.

I agree.

It is just like the classic older brother line. I didnt tell him too do anything. In reality the younger brother learns most everything from there older brother simply by doing what he does.

Farve taught by example whether he wanted to or not.

[HEROHAMO]

I would take Campbell over Rodgers any day.

Rodgers has had a good example to follow in Farve. Campbell has shuffled three to four different playbooks.

Now that being said I still expect him to step up this year. I want 9 to 10 wins this year or I think it will be a failure. Campbell has had plenty of time in this league.

[Bob 0119]

And Favre didn't teach boo to Rogers. I heard Favre myself (was rather shocked in fact) say " I'm not here to teach him (Rodgers) anything. That's a coach's job. I'm here to play. Coaches teach, and players play."

I guarantee you Campbell got a lot more support and mentoring from Brunell than Rodgers got from Favre. That's a fact.

What exactly was there for Brunell to teach?

How to hit a guy in the flat?
How to learn a new offense?

Even if Favre didn't sit down with Rodgers and tutor him one on one, there was far more to learn from Favre just by standing next to him on the practice field then Brunell could ever hope to teach JC.

[John Manfreda]

I was just looking at the NFL Stats for week 1 for QBs:

Jason Campbell statistically played better than the following QBs:

JT O'Sullivan
Brodie Croyle
David Garrard
Marc Bulger
Jeff Garcia
Eli Manning
Matt Hasslebeck
Joe Flaco
Carson Palmer
Vince Young


Campbell was ranked 15th with a 81.2 rating. If he can limit his turnovers and maintain steady growth he'll be fine. Honestly, if Portis can hold up and be a work-horse, I have no problem if Campbell goes for 150-200 yard and 1 TD a game. If ce could have a 2007 type David Garrard season with like 17-20 Tds and 5-8 Ints, he'll be good. I saw a lot of flashes in the Giants game. The one throw to Thrash was on the money and Thrash couldn't get it and the other one was in traffic to Santana and Santana dropped it. He very nearly could've had 3 Tds, just as Eli Manning should've had 3-5 Ints in the game.

So if you were in these teams positions you would trade David Garrard, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia, Eli Manning, Matt Hasslebeck, Joe Flaco, Carson Palmer, or Vince Young for JC straight up. JC did not play better than Manning last week, I don't care what the stats say. Originally I said I would have waited for next year to draft a Qb. I still stand by that, even though we would have had to trade up for one of the three. I would not trade any one of those Qb's mentioned up top for JC, even if you threw in a 2nd round pick. People keep making exscuses, Matt Ryan and Joe Flaco ran an offense effectively with a new head coach and learning a new offense in their rookie start. Brett Favre is doing just fine in New York while learning a new offense (correct me if I am wrong), am I speaking too soon? Well its possible, very possible, but learning a new offense or not, there is no exscuse for his poor play last week. Learning a new offense can hurt one to a degree, but not to a degree were there so ineffective that there an incredible liability. Right now, it seems like this is how the Redskins are going to operate, new systems all the time. It doesn't seem to hurt the other units, so if they want to win, they have to take a new approach to Qb's. That is, stop drafting Qb's in the first round were they clearly need to devolop, because they won't be able to while learning a new offense every year, logically speaking. Now there going to have to bring in veteran Qb's that know the offense so we can speed up the process. This is not the best way to build great teams, but the Ravens won the superbowl with Trent Dilfer, Rams did it with Warner, and the Bucs did it with Brad Johnson. So even thought its not the preferred way, this way can still win superbowls. Drafting a Qb doesn't mean superbowl success, Hasselback even though he was traded, Donavan, Mcnair, Grossman, Palmer have yet to lead there teams to winning superbowls, so drafting and devoloping a Qb does not automatically mean one will win a superbowl. Oh yeah The Panthers even though they didn't win the superbowl they went to one with Jake, if the spygate helped the Pats win it, than one can argue the Panthers would have won the superbowl and the Rams would have two. I know this is not a popular choice to stop drafting Qb's in the first round, but if the Redskins are going to change systems year after year, and if you all are right that changing systems year after year hurts a Qb's devolopment, than the Redskins will have to stop investing valuable first round picks with Qb's and start bringing in Veteran Qb's for now on.

[Thundersloth]

Would it have been a wise move to try and obtain Seneca Wallace? I'm not saying that Seattle would've dealt him, but since they picked up Frye from Cleavland they might have made a deal.

Wallace could help mentor JC and Colt in this offense and provide some insurance in case JC went down.

I see the obvious problems since we signed Collins before Zorn was hired as the OC, but it's just a thought.

[Deadskins]

I was just looking at the NFL Stats for week 1 for QBs:

Jason Campbell statistically played better than the following QBs:

JT O'Sullivan
Brodie Croyle
David Garrard
Marc Bulger
Jeff Garcia
Eli Manning
Matt Hasslebeck
Joe Flaco
Carson Palmer
Vince Young


Campbell was ranked 15th with a 81.2 rating. If he can limit his turnovers and maintain steady growth he'll be fine. Honestly, if Portis can hold up and be a work-horse, I have no problem if Campbell goes for 150-200 yard and 1 TD a game. If ce could have a 2007 type David Garrard season with like 17-20 Tds and 5-8 Ints, he'll be good. I saw a lot of flashes in the Giants game. The one throw to Thrash was on the money and Thrash couldn't get it and the other one was in traffic to Santana and Santana dropped it. He very nearly could've had 3 Tds, just as Eli Manning should've had 3-5 Ints in the game.

So if you were in these teams positions you would trade David Garrard, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia, Eli Manning, Matt Hasslebeck, Joe Flaco, Carson Palmer, or Vince Young for JC straight up. JC did not play better than Manning last week, I don't care what the stats say.

For many of those guys, yes I would. And I thought the stats don't lie? You and Ray keep pointing out that Collins outperformed JC in pre-season based on his stats. But now, when it fits your purposes, someone with better stats can be outplayed by a player with lesser stats. Curious!

As for the rest of your post: Ever heard of a paragraph?

[Countertrey]

JSPB22:

For many of those guys, yes I would. And I thought the stats don't lie? You and Ray keep pointing out that Collins outperformed JC in pre-season based on his stats. But now, when it fits your purposes, someone with better stats can be outplayed by a player with lesser stats. Curious! Hmm

Not only that, but the stats being discounted don't even include 4 of the 5 passes that Manning put into the hands of Redskins DB's.

[markshark84]

I was just looking at the NFL Stats for week 1 for QBs:

Jason Campbell statistically played better than the following QBs:

JT O'Sullivan
Brodie Croyle
David Garrard
Marc Bulger
Jeff Garcia
Eli Manning
Matt Hasslebeck
Joe Flaco
Carson Palmer
Vince Young


Campbell was ranked 15th with a 81.2 rating. If he can limit his turnovers and maintain steady growth he'll be fine. Honestly, if Portis can hold up and be a work-horse, I have no problem if Campbell goes for 150-200 yard and 1 TD a game. If ce could have a 2007 type David Garrard season with like 17-20 Tds and 5-8 Ints, he'll be good. I saw a lot of flashes in the Giants game. The one throw to Thrash was on the money and Thrash couldn't get it and the other one was in traffic to Santana and Santana dropped it. He very nearly could've had 3 Tds, just as Eli Manning should've had 3-5 Ints in the game.

So if you were in these teams positions you would trade David Garrard, Marc Bulger, Jeff Garcia, Eli Manning, Matt Hasslebeck, Joe Flaco, Carson Palmer, or Vince Young for JC straight up. JC did not play better than Manning last week, I don't care what the stats say.

For many of those guys, yes I would. And I thought the stats don't lie? You and Ray keep pointing out that Collins outperformed JC in pre-season based on his stats. But now, when it fits your purposes, someone with better stats can be outplayed by a player with lesser stats. Curious!

As for the rest of your post: Ever heard of a paragraph?

Maybe you COULD give Danny and his side-kick Vinny a run for their money. Man, you would be the best GM ever!!!!!!!

[John Manfreda]

I am a hell of a lot smarter than u guys. Vince Young, look at his record as a starter and JC's that should tell u. Matt Hasselback pro-bowler while JC took a playoff team to pure mediocrity. Carson Palmer. U know what okay, I have a brain and u guys don't. Thats simple, Eli won a superbowl, say what u want, but when he was Qbing he actually lead and sustained drives, something Campbell has never been able to do in his whole time here. Ryan and Flaco can lead, or at least have an ability too, JC has never shown any signs of intangibles as a Redksin. If one would trade Carson Palmer, Vince Young, Eli Manning for JC, I am not the idiot. I am a hell of a lot better judge than u guys.

[John Manfreda]

by the way David Garrad has accomplished more, with less than one season as a starter, than JC has in his whole time here. If one would trade David, Matt, Vince, Eli, or Palmer for JC than your dumbass. Thats all I have to say, u can say whatever u want now I really don't care its not worth my time. Since u guys always blame receivers look what receivers David had to throw to with the Jags, quit blaming the receivers if ur good than u will find away to get it done. JC is suppose to be this mobile athletic Qb, than why does he hold on the ball so long, he can at least run for ydg if nothing is there.

[PulpExposure]

I am a hell of a lot smarter than u guys. Vince Young, look at his record as a starter and JC's that should tell u. Matt Hasselback pro-bowler while JC took a playoff team to pure mediocrity. Carson Palmer. U know what okay, I have a brain and u guys don't. Thats simple, Eli won a superbowl, say what u want, but when he was Qbing he actually lead and sustained drives, something Campbell has never been able to do in his whole time here. Ryan and Flaco can lead, or at least have an ability too, JC has never shown any signs of intangibles as a Redksin. If one would trade Carson Palmer, Vince Young, Eli Manning for JC, I am not the idiot. I am a hell of a lot better judge than u guys.

I'd be careful casting aspersions on other people's intelligence when you write a post like this one that is so rife with spelling errors, incorrect usage of punctuation, and poor grammar.

[SkinsFreak]

I am a hell of a lot smarter than u guys. Vince Young, look at his record as a starter and JC's that should tell u. Matt Hasselback pro-bowler while JC took a playoff team to pure mediocrity. Carson Palmer. U know what okay, I have a brain and u guys don't. Thats simple, Eli won a superbowl, say what u want, but when he was Qbing he actually lead and sustained drives, something Campbell has never been able to do in his whole time here. Ryan and Flaco can lead, or at least have an ability too, JC has never shown any signs of intangibles as a Redksin. If one would trade Carson Palmer, Vince Young, Eli Manning for JC, I am not the idiot. I am a hell of a lot better judge than u guys.

I'd be careful casting aspersions on other people's intelligence when you write a post like this one that is so rife with spelling errors, incorrect usage of punctuation, and poor grammar.

It might be time to change your sig line, por-tiz2skins is getting some stiff competition.

Thats simple, Eli won a superbowl, say what u want, but when he was Qbing he actually lead and sustained drives, something Campbell has never been able to do in his whole time here.

Man, there are some great quotes in that piece, but really, JC has never lead or sustained drives... ever? Wow.