The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Campbell is probably mechanical because Zorn just retaught him how to throw the ball this offseason. You can't expect someoone to learn new throwing mechanics and footwork to become fluid with it in 3 months.

The hope is he becomes comfortable with the mechanics and the offense, as he gets exposed to it. Zorn often says it took Hasselbeck 2 years to grasp the WCO and get comfortable...and yet JC is thrown under the bus after one freaking game in the system?

People preach patience with Zorn...but they're not willing to be patient? If people are willing to give Zorn the time to become an effective NFL head coach and playcaller, why won't people equally extend that patience for JC to become an effective WCO QB in the NFL?

I'm a bit confused at this. I mean if JC is still this inept after 10 games or so, and hasn't shown progress...then next season, open that starting QB competition right up. But ONE GAME?

I'm not specifically referring to you, RayNAustin, since it's well known how you haven't thought JC was the solution since last year.

Skinsfan55 wrote:Sometimes I just wish that we'd kept Marty. Coach Marty had a plan, he was going to get rid of the high paid guys get some low cost veterans to take their place and in three years he thought they'd have enough cap space, and enough solid drafts to really be able to make some noise in the NFC...

Me, too. Although watching his offense was like watching paint dry, I think he was making us a very solid, fundamentally sound football team.

But Danny got impatient and went after Steve Spurrier who, we all remember was terrible.

You can look back and say this was a horrible hire (and he's proven to be a horrible NFL coach), but everyone wanted Spurrier to try coaching in the NFL.

And Schottenheimer went to San Diego and after about three seasons the Chargers went 12-4 then 9-7, then 14-2 and San Diego is one of the best franchises in professional football.

Yeah, but a lot of that is due to AJ Smith. While a complete jerk, he also happens to be probably the best GM in the NFL.

I don't think Cerrato is as big a mess as everyone thinks, but he's no AJ Smith.

If only we had a coach who we would allow to stay long enough to carry out a plan. Any plan.

That would be nice to see with Zorn, and possibly the best thing to see out of this season would be to see Snyder act with some patience, regardless of the final record of the Redskins.

PulpExposure wrote:Zorn often says it took Hasselbeck 2 years to grasp the WCO and get comfortable.

Actually, it was 6 years (2 under Zorn's tutelage). MH was in the system for 4 years in Green Bay before he got to Seattle.

PulpExposure wrote:everyone wanted Spurrier to try coaching in the NFL.

I certainly didn't. I was pissed at the time because I thought Marty had us going in the right direction, and I knew a coaching change meant more rebuilding.

JSPB22 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:everyone wanted Spurrier to try coaching in the NFL.

I certainly didn't. I was pissed at the time because I thought Marty had us going in the right direction, and I knew a coaching change meant more rebuilding.

Sorry, I was imprecise. I didn't either, because I saw his Fun N' Gun as a gimmick offense.

However, he was widely sought after (at the time) as a head coach by owners in the NFL.

The problem stems from one basic philosophic principle: know thyself.

Why on Earth would Zorn change JC´s mechanics to become a WCO quarterback? Why not try to use JC´s strenghs instead? If the kid has a long, slow, release an needs max protection schemes to be comfortable then try and use that.

Some fans, including myself, are starting to realize that this reworking of Campbell´s mechanics could be an excuse to show him the door in the very near future. "Hey, sorry kid, we gave you a chance to learn the my version of the WCO, heck, I even tutored you, but you just don´t have the "mold" of my man Hasselback". I hope it does not come to that.

Remember that JC is Gibbs QB, not Zorn´s. We saw practically the same story a couple of years ago with all the Ramsey fiasco. He was Spurrier´s student, not Gibbs. The coach wants his most loyal liutenant on the field.

I know what some of you will say: "Campbell had success at the collegiate level in the WCO". Sorry, wake up, these are the pros.

El Mexican wrote:The problem stems from one basic philosophic principle: know thyself.

Why on Earth would Zorn change JC´s mechanics to become a WCO quarterback? Why not try to use JC´s strenghs instead? If the kid has a long, slow, release an needs max protection schemes to be comfortable then try and use that.

Some fans, including myself, are starting to realize that this reworking of Campbell´s mechanics could be an excuse to show him the door in the very near future. "Hey, sorry kid, we gave you a chance to learn the my version of the WCO, heck, I even tutored you, but you just don´t have the "mold" of my man Hasselback". I hope it does not come to that.

Remember that JC is Gibbs QB, not Zorn´s. We saw practically the same story a couple of years ago with all the Ramsey fiasco. He was Spurrier´s student, not Gibbs. The coach wants his most loyal liutenant on the field.

That may be completely true, but I sincerely hope it isn't. If it is true, we'll be caught in the QB-death spiral, as a successive series of coaches get their QBs, have a year to mold them, get fired, and then the next coach comes in and gets their new QB.

Hello, Cardinals-ville.

I am not sure if the issue should even be if Zorn wants JC out or whether JC is Zorn's guy or if JC had to adjust his mechanics. I see the ultimate, bottom line issue as whether JC can produce in Zorn's offense. Zorn is the coach and Snyder hired him and his offense to run the team. Zorn should not adjust his entire offensive philosophy for JC. If JC cannot run the offense, then we need to find someone that can. JC is not Favre or Brady or Manning where you would adjust to make him happy. Hopefully JC can adjust quickly to the offense and produce, but if he cannot, we need to find someone that can. I don't think that it is the best idea to ask a coach that runs the WCO, to change into an unfamiliar offensive structure just because the QB will be more comfortable with it. Besides, JC didn't do that great in an offensive designed for him last year anyeay. He's the coach; not JC. JC needs to adjust to him.

JSPB22 wrote: Actually, it was 6 years (2 under Zorn's tutelage). MH was in the system for 4 years in Green Bay before he got to Seattle.

I need to correct some of the outrageous distortions about Hasselbeck here.

First, in his TWO YEARS at Green Bay, the only action he saw was a couple of mop up appearances for Favre (total pass attempts 29 in two years), so that is not "experience", and it certainly ain't 4 years.

His first year with Seattle, he played in 12 games, and was not very effective. His Second year, he started 10 games and showed a great deal of improvement with more than double the previous years 7 TD to 15 TD, and almost 64% completions up from 53% his first year. His passer rating went from 70.9 to 87.8 his second year. So, after 22 games (very similar to Campbell's current experience level) his rating for season 2 was a very respectable 87.8. In his third year, he almost doubled his TDs again from 15 TD to 26 TD's 3900 yards passing 88.8 rating (his first full season starting.) And it's important to note that after his 1st season (12 games) Hasselbeck has never had more turnovers than TDs. His 2nd year (12 games experience) he had 15 Td's, and 15 to's

Jason Campbell's 2nd year he had 12 tds and 24 to's.

Furthermore, Campbell didn't show improvement in the 2nd year, in fact, his TD % went down and his turnovers almost tripled. And so far between his appearances in pre season and the 1st regular season game he looks worse.

If you all think Campbell is going to last 16 games this year without seeing real improvement, you are dreaming. Zorn knows what Campbell's problems are already, and he's going to work hard on him, but if he doesn't respond favorably, he's going to get the hook, and rightly so.

And just for the record, I've never considered Hasselbeck a stellar QB. He became a good director of an offense that had lots of elements, but he'll never see the Hall Of Fame without a ticket.

Than why the heck is Zorn wasting time teaching Campbell "his version" of the WCO?

If Campbell is not the answer to Zorn´s system, then why waste this season before next year we bring in one of his "guys"?

RayNAustin wrote:

JSPB22 wrote: Actually, it was 6 years (2 under Zorn's tutelage). MH was in the system for 4 years in Green Bay before he got to Seattle.

I need to correct some of the outrageous distortions about Hasselbeck here.

First, in his TWO YEARS at Green Bay, the only action he saw was a couple of mop up appearances for Favre (total pass attempts 29 in two years), so that is not "experience", and it certainly ain't 4 years.

His first year with Seattle, he played in 12 games, and was not very effective. His Second year, he started 10 games and showed a great deal of improvement with more than double the previous years 7 TD to 15 TD, and almost 64% completions up from 53% his first year. His passer rating went from 70.9 to 87.8 his second year. So, after 22 games (very similar to Campbell's current experience level) his rating for season 2 was a very respectable 87.8. In his third year, he almost doubled his TDs again from 15 TD to 26 TD's 3900 yards passing 88.8 rating (his first full season starting.) And it's important to note that after his 1st season (12 games) Hasselbeck has never had more turnovers than TDs. His 2nd year (12 games experience) he had 15 Td's, and 15 to's

Jason Campbell's 2nd year he had 12 tds and 24 to's.

Furthermore, Campbell didn't show improvement in the 2nd year, in fact, his TD % went down and his turnovers almost tripled. And so far between his appearances in pre season and the 1st regular season game he looks worse.

If you all think Campbell is going to last 16 games this year without seeing real improvement, you are dreaming. Zorn knows what Campbell's problems are already, and he's going to work hard on him, but if he doesn't respond favorably, he's going to get the hook, and rightly so.

And just for the record, I've never considered Hasselbeck a stellar QB. He became a good director of an offense that had lots of elements, but he'll never see the Hall Of Fame without a ticket.

I got that from the article Skinsfan55 posted on the last page:

He spoke again yesterday about how "wild" Pro Bowl passer Matt Hasselbeck was in his first season in Seattle with Zorn as quarterbacks coach, even after Hasselbeck's four years as a backup in the same system in Green Bay, but said Campbell has enough talent to overcome any hiccups.

I didn't fact check it.

personally I am not high on JC, I think he posses the same traits the fans criticized Ramsey for. Holding on the ball too long, pocket presence, makes critical mistakes. I think from watching Matt Ryan, and Joe Flaco yesturday that learning a new system won't stunt the development of a player to the point were he is unproductive or as bad as JC looked on thursday. The Falcons actually looked really good on offense with a rookie Qb while they are all learning a new sysem. One ether has it or he doesn't. But, I hope I am wrong and that JC picks up the system and we have a successful season. But if I had to choose now, I think its the Qb, not the system. I was wondering please answer this for me, I am not being critical, I just am wondering is this really completely new to him? Because he did run the west coast in college, I was thinking that the plays and terminology might be so different that its still really foreign to him.

You will see the Falcons come back to earth as the season goes on. It was a good first game though.

The scheme is fine.

There were receivers open. THe playcalling was fine.

Execution is what is needed. Like I said in previous posts the receivers have to step up, namely the rookies.

markshark84 wrote:I am not sure if the issue should even be if Zorn wants JC out or whether JC is Zorn's guy or if JC had to adjust his mechanics. I see the ultimate, bottom line issue as whether JC can produce in Zorn's offense. Zorn is the coach and Snyder hired him and his offense to run the team. Zorn should not adjust his entire offensive philosophy for JC. If JC cannot run the offense, then we need to find someone that can. JC is not Favre or Brady or Manning where you would adjust to make him happy. Hopefully JC can adjust quickly to the offense and produce, but if he cannot, we need to find someone that can. I don't think that it is the best idea to ask a coach that runs the WCO, to change into an unfamiliar offensive structure just because the QB will be more comfortable with it. Besides, JC didn't do that great in an offensive designed for him last year anyeay. He's the coach; not JC. JC needs to adjust to him.

Oh well if that's the case, then get rid of JC now. Why put a guy that is 6-4 or 6-5 in such a small crouch behind center? Why make duck down some in the pocket? Zorn doesn't have to change his entire offense but he can tweak it to JC's strengths. After all, there are running backs to carry the football and everything doesn't have to be a quick hit. Look at STL against the b-Eagles yesterday. Torry Holt pretty much shutout. They run the WC offense right with an experienced QB?

The bottomline is this, Jason Campbell and this team has not had the benefit of being in one system long enough to even get it. The closest was the playoff we had a few years ago then Gibbs goes and get's the 700-page playbook when it was clear that this team was comfortable running his offense.

roybus14 wrote:The bottomline is this, Jason Campbell and this team has not had the benefit of being in one system long enough to even get it. The closest was the playoff we had a few years ago then Gibbs goes and get's the 700-page playbook when it was clear that this team was comfortable running his offense.

Bull. They had all of 2006 and all of 2007.....two full seasons running Saunders offense. Campbell couldn't get it together, and every excuse under the sun was given except blaming Campbell. He gets hurt, and Collins comes in cold, and immediately the offense starts working and we won 4 in a row....and won them handily, two of which were against the Giants and Cowboys.

If we had not changed coaches, Campbell's poor play so far would be blamed on the receivers again, or the o-line, or the alignment of the stars, or whatever.

The real bottom line is that the offense revolves around how well or how badly the QB plays. All anyone needs is two eyes and two brain cells to see whats wrong with the Redskin offense......the same players that won 4 in a row last year to make it to the playoffs are on the field now....the only difference is Campbell.

RayNAustin wrote:the only difference is Campbell.

That's not the whole story. Damn dude, you don't quit.

We were in a must win situation and the coaches opened up the play book. They did not employ the same offense at the end of the season similar to the conservative offense used at the beginning. If you think the QB change was the only difference, then perhaps the 2 eyes and 2 braincells are lacking from someone else. Just saying it here doesn't make it so.

I don't think anyone here is surprised that Collins played well in Saunders system last year when he got his chance. Damn, he'd been holding a clipboard of that offense on the sidelines for a decade, I'd damn sure hope he knows the system.

If Collins is so talented and more skilled, answer me this...

1. With all the teams struggling at the QB position this year, why weren't there a half dozen teams trying to sign Collins this offseason when he was a free agent?

2. Why has Collins never been awarded a starting QB job in his entire career?

3. When Saunders came to Washington, why couldn't Collins win the starting job over an inexperienced QB in Campbell?

4. Why have Gibbs, a HOF coach with 3 SB's, Al Saunders, Collins OC in KC, and an ex-NFL QB in Zorn, not named Collins the starter?

(And just to put the upcoming BS answer to death, Zorn benching Jansen in favor of an undrafted 2nd year player in Heyer proves the coaches aren't forced to play the "sexy" or high paid guy, they are going to play the better man.)

5. Who has a stronger arm with more velocity on his passes?

6. Who has the better scrambling abilities?

7. Who has a longer future ahead of him?

Regardless of game stats, because there are many variables to consider, I would bet my house JC has a more accurate arm than Collins, and Zorn and co. see that in practice every day.

Are you seriously suggesting you have a better understanding of the talents of our QB's over Gibbs, Saunders and Zorn? Are these guys, who see the QB's on the field 24/7, not as smart as you are? Wow...

Campbell may never turn out to be a HOF QB, that's a possibility. But just as no one can say he will, you can't say he won't. RIGHT NOW, he's our best option and has earned that through his play, maybe not from last week, but what he's done over the past few years. If they didn't think he had the potential, you can bet your ass he wouldn't be starting. Your posts are pointless and I don't understand what you are trying to prove. The coaches have named Campbell the starter, not the fans here at THN. JC was named the starter for a reason, and it wasn't because he's a popular dude.

Why not take your arguments down to Redskins Park and see if you can impress anyone there? Three experienced, well paid, highly touted coaches who have seen these QB's in practice everyday have deemed Campbell to be the better option at this point. That holds so much more weight than some armchair QB who thinks he knows it all. And to endlessly hack on fans just because they throw support for their starting QB is tiresome and obnoxious, to say the least.

IMO, if the Redskins want to make JC a good QB they need to accept the fact it requires max protection. To do this they need to find 4 offensive linemen in a hurry. Against the better teams the current line can not do this, even with help from the TE or RB.

The WCO works, we need a QB that can make quick decisions and throw the ball successfully from a 3-step drop.

SkinsFreak wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:the only difference is Campbell.

That's not the whole story. Damn dude, you don't quit.

We were in a must win situation and the coaches opened up the play book. They did not employ the same offense at the end of the season similar to the conservative offense used at the beginning. If you think the QB change was the only difference, then perhaps the 2 eyes and 2 braincells are lacking from someone else. Just saying it here doesn't make it so.

I don't think anyone here is surprised that Collins played well in Saunders system last year when he got his chance. Damn, he'd been holding a clipboard of that offense on the sidelines for a decade, I'd damn sure hope he knows the system.

If Collins is so talented and more skilled, answer me this...

1. With all the teams struggling at the QB position this year, why weren't there a half dozen teams trying to sign Collins this offseason when he was a free agent?

2. Why has Collins never been awarded a starting QB job in his entire career?

3. When Saunders came to Washington, why couldn't Collins win the starting job over an inexperienced QB in Campbell?

4. Why have Gibbs, a HOF coach with 3 SB's, Al Saunders, Collins OC in KC, and an ex-NFL QB in Zorn, not named Collins the starter?

(And just to put the upcoming BS answer to death, Zorn benching Jansen in favor of an undrafted 2nd year player in Heyer proves the coaches aren't forced to play the "sexy" or high paid guy, they are going to play the better man.)

5. Who has a stronger arm with more velocity on his passes?

6. Who has the better scrambling abilities?

7. Who has a longer future ahead of him?

Regardless of game stats, because there are many variables to consider, I would bet my house JC has a more accurate arm than Collins, and Zorn and co. see that in practice every day.

Are you seriously suggesting you have a better understanding of the talents of our QB's over Gibbs, Saunders and Zorn? Are these guys, who see the QB's on the field 24/7, not as smart as you are? Wow...

Campbell may never turn out to be a HOF QB, that's a possibility. But just as no one can say he will, you can't say he won't. RIGHT NOW, he's our best option and has earned that through his play, maybe not from last week, but what he's done over the past few years. If they didn't think he had the potential, you can bet your ass he wouldn't be starting. Your posts are pointless and I don't understand what you are trying to prove. The coaches have named Campbell the starter, not the fans here at THN. JC was named the starter for a reason, and it wasn't because he's a popular dude.

Why not take your arguments down to Redskins Park and see if you can impress anyone there? Three experienced, well paid, highly touted coaches who have seen these QB's in practice everyday have deemed Campbell to be the better option at this point. That holds so much more weight than some armchair QB who thinks he knows it all. And to endlessly hack on fans just because they throw support for their starting QB is tiresome and obnoxious, to say the least.

I understand this isn't my conversation, but I am not sure you are totally accurate either. And for the record, I really don't care who is the QB. I just want to win. I would love to see JC light it up this season and never see either Collin or Colt play.

But to reply, in the NFL, ever game is a must win. The fact that we had our backs against the wall should not matter (and I don't think it did) and if it did, we need to get a new team if the only way they will play to their potential is with their backs to the wall. That is a form of procrastination--- a horrible trait. I do think, however, that Collins may have had a good deal to do with those 4 wins. His performance over those 4 games were exellent. I don't believe he threw one interception over that span. And the fact that Gibbs opened up the offense was because they did not believe JC understood the offense well enough. That is well documented.

The fact is Collins old age held him back in terms of starting this year. Also in terms of going elsewhere, I understand that Collins wanted to stay here and that is why he is here (I believe he has children in schools here -- but I may be off base). I would think that Saunders would have wanted him to go with him, but he chose to stay here.

I think that the history of Collins not getting a starting job is more based on the situation than anything. Besides, he actually was a starter in Buffalo; so in that respect you are wrong.

The situation here for Collins was much like it was in KC (in that there was really no possibility of starting barring horrendous play or injury). We wasted a first round pick on JC and I don't think the front office was willing to admit fault in the pick quite yet (and I still don't). Collins came in to Washington as the backup. He knew that. JC was always the starter and that was the understanding Collins had coming in here. Collins was not named starter because he was not a first round draft pick for the skins (a pick that we gave up 2 first rounders for). Those are the politics. It was quite an investment and the front office was willing to go to all lengths to see it through. I, however, wonder if JC would be the starter if his performance were the same over the past 2 seasons and Collins were 28; not 40 or whatever his age is. The entire Jansen thing only confirms my belief that age is the major factor. But your assertions in 6 and 7 partially answer your questions. JC has all the talents to be successful: a strong arm, big hands, height, etc.; he just needs to perform. Like I said, I would love for JC to step up and perform like an all-pro. He just hasn't displayed that type of skill or leadership since joining the skins.

While I do notice you are quite a bit towards JC (and saying that he may or may not be a HOF QB was a bit funny...since I don't think anyone has seen anything that may incite HOF talk), the fact is that JC has not showed this fan anything that makes me believe he has "earned" his starting spot. He is 7-13 (4-1 without) as a starter with a QB rating in the 70s and no indication of improvement from his second year. To be honest here, I only think that JC has done only enough to not lose a job he was handed in the first place.

markshark84 wrote:JC has not showed this fan anything that makes me believe he has "earned" his starting spot.

And that's just the point. Maybe he hasn't shown you, or Ray, enough to warrant the starting job, he's obviously shown it to the people paid to make those decisions, the coaches, from Gibbs to Zorn. They've made a decision based on first-hand knowledge, and that's where my respect lies. If they so deem it necessary to make a change, then I will back that move as well. Point being, the coaches are far more qualified to make such judgments. I'm not "quite towards JC", I simply respect the coaches choice and believe they have far more credibility.

The simple answer is:
It's easier to change one system to fit the 25 or so offensive players than it is to change 25 or so offensive players to fit one system.

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:the only difference is Campbell.

That's not the whole story. Damn dude, you don't quit.

We were in a must win situation and the coaches opened up the play book. They did not employ the same offense at the end of the season similar to the conservative offense used at the beginning. If you think the QB change was the only difference, then perhaps the 2 eyes and 2 braincells are lacking from someone else. Just saying it here doesn't make it so.

I don't think anyone here is surprised that Collins played well in Saunders system last year when he got his chance. Damn, he'd been holding a clipboard of that offense on the sidelines for a decade, I'd damn sure hope he knows the system.

If Collins is so talented and more skilled, answer me this...

1. With all the teams struggling at the QB position this year, why weren't there a half dozen teams trying to sign Collins this offseason when he was a free agent?

2. Why has Collins never been awarded a starting QB job in his entire career?

3. When Saunders came to Washington, why couldn't Collins win the starting job over an inexperienced QB in Campbell?

4. Why have Gibbs, a HOF coach with 3 SB's, Al Saunders, Collins OC in KC, and an ex-NFL QB in Zorn, not named Collins the starter?

(And just to put the upcoming BS answer to death, Zorn benching Jansen in favor of an undrafted 2nd year player in Heyer proves the coaches aren't forced to play the "sexy" or high paid guy, they are going to play the better man.)

5. Who has a stronger arm with more velocity on his passes?

6. Who has the better scrambling abilities?

7. Who has a longer future ahead of him?

Regardless of game stats, because there are many variables to consider, I would bet my house JC has a more accurate arm than Collins, and Zorn and co. see that in practice every day.

Are you seriously suggesting you have a better understanding of the talents of our QB's over Gibbs, Saunders and Zorn? Are these guys, who see the QB's on the field 24/7, not as smart as you are? Wow...

Campbell may never turn out to be a HOF QB, that's a possibility. But just as no one can say he will, you can't say he won't. RIGHT NOW, he's our best option and has earned that through his play, maybe not from last week, but what he's done over the past few years. If they didn't think he had the potential, you can bet your ass he wouldn't be starting. Your posts are pointless and I don't understand what you are trying to prove. The coaches have named Campbell the starter, not the fans here at THN. JC was named the starter for a reason, and it wasn't because he's a popular dude.

Why not take your arguments down to Redskins Park and see if you can impress anyone there? Three experienced, well paid, highly touted coaches who have seen these QB's in practice everyday have deemed Campbell to be the better option at this point. That holds so much more weight than some armchair QB who thinks he knows it all. And to endlessly hack on fans just because they throw support for their starting QB is tiresome and obnoxious, to say the least.

I understand this isn't my conversation, but I am not sure you are totally accurate either. And for the record, I really don't care who is the QB. I just want to win. I would love to see JC light it up this season and never see either Collin or Colt play.

But to reply, in the NFL, ever game is a must win. The fact that we had our backs against the wall should not matter (and I don't think it did) and if it did, we need to get a new team if the only way they will play to their potential is with their backs to the wall. That is a form of procrastination--- a horrible trait. I do think, however, that Collins may have had a good deal to do with those 4 wins. His performance over those 4 games were exellent. I don't believe he threw one interception over that span. And the fact that Gibbs opened up the offense was because they did not believe JC understood the offense well enough. That is well documented.

The fact is Collins old age held him back in terms of starting this year. Also in terms of going elsewhere, I understand that Collins wanted to stay here and that is why he is here (I believe he has children in schools here -- but I may be off base). I would think that Saunders would have wanted him to go with him, but he chose to stay here.

I think that the history of Collins not getting a starting job is more based on the situation than anything. Besides, he actually was a starter in Buffalo; so in that respect you are wrong.

The situation here for Collins was much like it was in KC (in that there was really no possibility of starting barring horrendous play or injury). We wasted a first round pick on JC and I don't think the front office was willing to admit fault in the pick quite yet (and I still don't). Collins came in to Washington as the backup. He knew that. JC was always the starter and that was the understanding Collins had coming in here. Collins was not named starter because he was not a first round draft pick for the skins (a pick that we gave up 2 first rounders for). Those are the politics. It was quite an investment and the front office was willing to go to all lengths to see it through. I, however, wonder if JC would be the starter if his performance were the same over the past 2 seasons and Collins were 28; not 40 or whatever his age is. The entire Jansen thing only confirms my belief that age is the major factor. But your assertions in 6 and 7 partially answer your questions. JC has all the talents to be successful: a strong arm, big hands, height, etc.; he just needs to perform. Like I said, I would love for JC to step up and perform like an all-pro. He just hasn't displayed that type of skill or leadership since joining the skins.

While I do notice you are quite a bit towards JC (and saying that he may or may not be a HOF QB was a bit funny...since I don't think anyone has seen anything that may incite HOF talk), the fact is that JC has not showed this fan anything that makes me believe he has "earned" his starting spot. He is 7-13 (4-1 without) as a starter with a QB rating in the 70s and no indication of improvement from his second year. To be honest here, I only think that JC has done only enough to not lose a job he was handed in the first place.

thank you. you saved me a ton of typing.

campell didn't EARN anything.

he is in the position he is in, because snyder has to have SOME return on his investment.

hey skinsfreak, i hear that there are still j campell jersey's for sale at redskins.com. he would love for you to show your support. (so would snyderatto)

GSPODS wrote:The simple answer is:
It's easier to change one system to fit the 25 or so offensive players than it is to change 25 or so offensive players to fit one system.

which falls back to square one..... who IS calling the shots????? and are we blind enough to just accept it and say we are "rebuilding"?????????

hailskins666 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:The simple answer is:
It's easier to change one system to fit the 25 or so offensive players than it is to change 25 or so offensive players to fit one system.

which falls back to square one..... who IS calling the shots????? and are we blind enough to just accept it and say we are "rebuilding"?????????

Snyder is big on instant gratification, or hasn't anyone noticed?
I keep hoping he's finally figured out that winning takes time, whether he hires Gibbs, Zorn, or Coaching Jesus. If he has, things are looking up. If not, then everyone who's complaining about ownership has a valid point.

GSPODS wrote:Snyder is big on instant gratification, or hasn't anyone noticed?
I keep hoping he's finally figured out that winning takes time

ROTFALMAO you make joke.

hailskins666 wrote:campell didn't EARN anything.

he is in the position he is in, because snyder has to have SOME return on his investment.

hey skinsfreak, i hear that there are still j campell jersey's for sale at redskins.com. he would love for you to show your support. (so would snyderatto)

I believe he has, at least from the standpoint of our current QB roster. And the excuses for Collins are just that... excuses. Talent trumps all in this league. If Collins had the talent, he'd be starting and I'd be backing him.

You and a few others seem to be missing my general point... my instincts are to believe the coaches, not some armchair QB's on a message board.

And for the record, I happen to like Colt more than JC, I posted about Colt before the draft. It's just that I believe Colt needs to sit and learn a while and JC is our better option... at this point.

It's funny actually, I agree with Gibbs and Zorn, not the perpetual nay sayers, and I'm the one, along with the coaches, who has it all wrong. That's a good one.

Hey hailskins, sure would love to see you wear a Collins jersey to a game. That would be a hoot, I can hear the jokes now.

It is unfortunte that JC has not turned the corner yet, but if he doesn't do it soon, his days should be numbered.
markshark84

Markshark, it's hard to turn the corner when management keeps changing the street you start from. Campbell's strengths aren't being used and he's not comfortable.