The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Dude! I'm right there with you. We all want Jason to succeed. That doesn't make it so. It's too early to pull the plug, but realistically he's got one or two more years to prove something. If not we have to move on....like it or not.

Two more years? Boy, I wish I had ever had a boss like you.

I say he has camp, preseason, and 4 or 5 games to show up, and thats it. The Rookies get 2 years, this is JC's 4th season. The time is now to step up or step aside.

RayNAustin wrote:Two more years? Boy, I wish I had ever had a boss like you.

I say he has camp, preseason, and 4 or 5 games to show up, and thats it. The Rookies get 2 years, this is JC's 4th season. The time is now to step up or step aside.

so how many wins does he need to get in those 4 or 5 games? 2,3,4 or all 5? Campbell has never played poor enough to be yanked after 4 games. Even his first year as a starter.

GSPODS wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Sir_Monk wrote:The problem with Mel Kipers grades, at least for us is I don't think he is taking much into account as to our own needs. We got 3 "weapons" at the WR/TE position when we really needed one

Disagree completely.

Santana Moss is getting older (29 in June), and extremely injury prone.

We needed at least 1 wide receiver, and in reality, 2 wide receivers. Because you know Santana is going to get hurt again at some point.

Am I the only one who isn't sold on Randle El as a slot receiver?

Nope. He's a mediocre kick returner and a below average NFL receiver. I'm hoping that both Kelly and Thomas can both surpass him on the depth chart sometime this season. ARE's contract is laughable given his production as a Redskin.

To me, ARE is somewhere between Brandon Lloyd and Adam Archuleta. He makes more plays than Lloyd ever did but he doesn't seem to fit the system.
Maybe Zorn's offense will change my mind about that. But, as of now, I'm just not seeing it.

Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally rediculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

skinsfan#33 wrote:Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally rediculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

What I am doing is stating an opinion. What you are doing is claiming you disagree with my opinion, without offering any explanation for why you disagree. I expected people to disagree. I was also hoping for more substance than "retarded" and "rediculous." Why is my opinion "retarded" and "rediculous?"

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally rediculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

What I am doing is stating an opinion. What you are doing is claiming you disagree with my opinion, without offering any explanation for why you disagree. I expected people to disagree. I was also hoping for more substance than "retarded" and "rediculous." Why is my opinion "retarded" and "rediculous?"

Is that a retorecle questions? Are you truely being serious?

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is opreety bad a a PR).

The guy that was signed to be the #2 WR had 2 receptions and 14 yards and was benched for most of the season because of his poor attitude while ARE played hurt!

Yeah I can see how ARE resembles BL

Do I really need to go into AA?

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is opreety bad a a PR).

When he is making as much as he is the argument that "he wasn't signed to be a #3" doesn't fly. And he became the #2 ahead of Lloyd fairly quickly so I don't really buy the argument that he was signed to just be a #3 receiver.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally rediculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

What I am doing is stating an opinion. What you are doing is claiming you disagree with my opinion, without offering any explanation for why you disagree. I expected people to disagree. I was also hoping for more substance than "retarded" and "rediculous." Why is my opinion "retarded" and "rediculous?"

Is that a retorecle questions? Are you truely being serious?

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is opreety bad a a PR).

The guy that was signed to be the #2 WR had 2 receptions and 14 yards and was benched for most of the season because of his poor attitude while ARE played hurt!

Yeah I can see how ARE resembles BL

Do I really need to go into AA?

How about Randle El and Lloyd thrived in one system for a short amount of time. Both were overpaid to underperform by the Redskins as free agents.
Archuleta was overpaid to play a position other than his natural one. So was Randle El.

Most good teams third receivers had more catches than Randle El last season. Welker had 112. So did Houshmandzadeh as a #2. The Redskins entire wide receiving group had fewer catches last season than Moss and Welker, or Houshmandzadeh and Johnson.

Randle El is at least 30 receptions short of being a #2 wide receiver, and he is at least twenty catches short of being a #3, but he is being paid as a #1 wide receiver.

I could go on but do I really need to?

Sorry, but I strongly disagree with those that think Campbell has yet to "show up". I think a few here have very short term memories. All we heard last year during games was about the incredible poise and skill JC possesses. He is, by far, more talented than QB's that have come out since, and even those that came out the same year.

This entire offense struggled to pick up Saunders system. By the end of the year, they were finally starting to click. Even though Todd had a far better grasp of the system, from playing in it for many years, he just happened to step in when the offense was just starting to get it.

The organization has overwhelmingly shown they believe in Jason and see him as the future. They went out and got him an offensive minded QB coach and some damn good pass catchers to boot. In my opinion, it's really inconceivable to think Jason can't be successful in this league with these weapons. For those that have such short term memories, go back and look at some video of him from last year. The guy is talented and has earned the respect of the entire organization and the entire locker room. In this league, you don't earn that kind of respect if there's even a hint of doubt from your teammates or your coaches.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is opreety bad a a PR).

When he is making as much as he is the argument that "he wasn't signed to be a #3" doesn't fly. And he became the #2 ahead of Lloyd fairly quickly so I don't really buy the argument that he was signed to just be a #3 receiver.

It doesn't change the fact that he was brought in to be a #3 WR and a PR. Any fan that doesn't know that should trade in their Burgandy and Gold fan card.

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally rediculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

What I am doing is stating an opinion. What you are doing is claiming you disagree with my opinion, without offering any explanation for why you disagree. I expected people to disagree. I was also hoping for more substance than "retarded" and "rediculous." Why is my opinion "retarded" and "rediculous?"

Is that a retorecle questions? Are you truely being serious?

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is opreety bad a a PR).

The guy that was signed to be the #2 WR had 2 receptions and 14 yards and was benched for most of the season because of his poor attitude while ARE played hurt!

Yeah I can see how ARE resembles BL

Do I really need to go into AA?

How about Randle El and Lloyd thrived in one system for a short amount of time. Both were overpaid to underperform by the Redskins as free agents.
Archuleta was overpaid to play a position other than his natural one. So was Randle El.

So AA was forced to play safety, a position he had played his whole professional career, and was forced to play out of position.

I never did buy the fact that they only brought him in to play run support and blitz and only someone very gullable would have.

GSPODS wrote:Most good teams third receivers had more catches than Randle El last season. Welker had 112. So did Houshmandzadeh as a #2. The Redskins entire wide receiving group had fewer catches last season than Moss and Welker, or Houshmandzadeh and Johnson.

You name two of the best #2 WR in the NFL and not #3 WRs.

GSPODS wrote:Randle El is at least 30 receptions short of being a #2 wide receiver, and he is at least twenty catches short of being a #3, but he is being paid as a #1 wide receiver.

I could go on but do I really need to?

You are just dead wrong on this. You wanted me to compare ARE to other good teams' #2 and #3 WR, well here you go. Here are the eleven of the playoff teams from last year and their #2 and #3 WRs (and some #1). ARE was on par (or better than) almost every #2 and was better than EVERY #3 WR.

NE #3 WR was Donte Stallworth 46 catches/697 yards
CB #3 WR was Chris Henry 21/343
DC #2 WR was P Crayton 50/697
DC #3 WR was S Hurd 19/314
GBP #2 WR was G Jennings 53/920
GBP #3 WR was J Jones 47/697
IC #2/3 WR was M Harrison 20/247
IC #3/2 WR was A Gonzalez 37/576
JJ #1 WR was E Wilfort 45/518
JJ #2 WR was D Northcut 44/601
JJ #3 WR was R Williams 38/629
NYG #2 WR was A Toomer 59/760
NYG #3 WR was S Moss 21/225
PS #2 WR was S Holmes 52/942
PS #3 WR was N Washington 29/450
SDC #1 WR was V Jackson 41/623
SDC #2 WR was C Chambers 35/555
SDC #3 WR was C Davis 20/188
SS #2 WR was N Burleson 50/694
SS #3 WR was D Branch 49/661

And here is another fact for you (I know you really don't like those), but ARE will only count 2.7 angainst the cap next year!

And another thing. In the one playoff game ARE played in he had the same number of yards (94) and TDs (1), but three more catches than Randy Moss did in all three post season games Moss played.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

RayNAustin wrote:Two more years? Boy, I wish I had ever had a boss like you.

I say he has camp, preseason, and 4 or 5 games to show up, and thats it. The Rookies get 2 years, this is JC's 4th season. The time is now to step up or step aside.

so how many wins does he need to get in those 4 or 5 games? 2,3,4 or all 5? Campbell has never played poor enough to be yanked after 4 games. Even his first year as a starter.

I'm not judging him on wins....if he threw 5 TD's in a game and we lost 36-35, would that be the QB's fault? No.

But go 8 games (that's 32 quarters) without a TD pass and yes, there is a major problem. Sorry you can't see that...but neither could Gibbs.

We saw what happened when Collins came in...didn't we? And it was instantly a different offense so don't give me that....it was just a BIG coincidence crap.

Sometimes I wonder how some of you come up with this nonsense....."he never played poor enough...."

If 8 games without a TD pass isn't cause for a change, what is? Nothing, if we're talking about Jason Elway-Unitas-Namath-Favre-Marino-Campbell I suppose.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally rediculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

What I am doing is stating an opinion. What you are doing is claiming you disagree with my opinion, without offering any explanation for why you disagree. I expected people to disagree. I was also hoping for more substance than "retarded" and "rediculous." Why is my opinion "retarded" and "rediculous?"

Is that a retorecle questions? Are you truely being serious?

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is opreety bad a a PR).

The guy that was signed to be the #2 WR had 2 receptions and 14 yards and was benched for most of the season because of his poor attitude while ARE played hurt!

Yeah I can see how ARE resembles BL

Do I really need to go into AA?

How about Randle El and Lloyd thrived in one system for a short amount of time. Both were overpaid to underperform by the Redskins as free agents.
Archuleta was overpaid to play a position other than his natural one. So was Randle El.

So AA was forced to play safety, a position he had played his whole professional career, and was forced to play out of position.

I never did buy the fact that they only brought him in to play run support and blitz and only someone very gullable would have.

GSPODS wrote:Most good teams third receivers had more catches than Randle El last season. Welker had 112. So did Houshmandzadeh as a #2. The Redskins entire wide receiving group had fewer catches last season than Moss and Welker, or Houshmandzadeh and Johnson.

You name two of the best #2 WR in the NFL and not #3 WRs.

GSPODS wrote:Randle El is at least 30 receptions short of being a #2 wide receiver, and he is at least twenty catches short of being a #3, but he is being paid as a #1 wide receiver.

I could go on but do I really need to?

You are just dead wrong on this. You wanted me to compare ARE to other good teams' #2 and #3 WR, well here you go. Here are the eleven of the playoff teams from last year and their #2 and #3 WRs (and some #1). ARE was on par (or better than) almost every #2 and was better than EVERY #3 WR.

NE #3 WR was Donte Stallworth 46 catches/697 yards
CB #3 WR was Chris Henry 21/343
DC #2 WR was P Crayton 50/697
DC #3 WR was S Hurd 19/314
GBP #2 WR was G Jennings 53/920
GBP #3 WR was J Jones 47/697
IC #2/3 WR was M Harrison 20/247
IC #3/2 WR was A Gonzalez 37/576
JJ #1 WR was E Wilfort 45/518
JJ #2 WR was D Northcut 44/601
JJ #3 WR was R Williams 38/629
NYG #2 WR was A Toomer 59/760
NYG #3 WR was S Moss 21/225
PS #2 WR was S Holmes 52/942
PS #3 WR was N Washington 29/450
SDC #1 WR was V Jackson 41/623
SDC #2 WR was C Chambers 35/555
SDC #3 WR was C Davis 20/188
SS #2 WR was N Burleson 50/694
SS #3 WR was D Branch 49/661

And here is another fact for you (I know you really don't like those), but ARE will only count 2.7 angainst the cap next year!

I see that you very conveniently left out touchdown numbers for all of those receivers.

And forget about judging ARE, Moss, and the rest, because they all magically healed up and played better just at the moment Todd Collins came into the lineup. They were on vacation the first half of the year, hanging JC out to dry. Cut them all.

Some of you would trade the whole team, and keep Campbell, because if there is anything wrong with the Redskins offense.....SURELY it couldn't be Jason 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 throw high Campbell.

Let me tell ya something....the WC offense requires more of a QB than Saunders offense required. A WC QB has to do the very things that Campbell has problems with.....they have to recognize coverages (QUICKLY), they have to move through their progressions (QUICKLY) and they have to get the ball off (QUICKLY), none of which Jason Campbell has shown any measure of proficiency at. He's slow recognizing coverages, and has an even slower release.

But maybe Zorn can fix those things. I hope he can, because I'm a Redskin fan and I want them to do well. That's why I don't want to see them continue making excuses for Campbell. Great QB's DO NOT REQUIRE 5 YEARS to mature and produce.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally rediculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

What I am doing is stating an opinion. What you are doing is claiming you disagree with my opinion, without offering any explanation for why you disagree. I expected people to disagree. I was also hoping for more substance than "retarded" and "rediculous." Why is my opinion "retarded" and "rediculous?"

Is that a retorecle questions? Are you truely being serious?

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is opreety bad a a PR).

The guy that was signed to be the #2 WR had 2 receptions and 14 yards and was benched for most of the season because of his poor attitude while ARE played hurt!

Yeah I can see how ARE resembles BL

Do I really need to go into AA?

How about Randle El and Lloyd thrived in one system for a short amount of time. Both were overpaid to underperform by the Redskins as free agents.
Archuleta was overpaid to play a position other than his natural one. So was Randle El.

So AA was forced to play safety, a position he had played his whole professional career, and was forced to play out of position.

I never did buy the fact that they only brought him in to play run support and blitz and only someone very gullable would have.

GSPODS wrote:Most good teams third receivers had more catches than Randle El last season. Welker had 112. So did Houshmandzadeh as a #2. The Redskins entire wide receiving group had fewer catches last season than Moss and Welker, or Houshmandzadeh and Johnson.

You name two of the best #2 WR in the NFL and not #3 WRs.

GSPODS wrote:Randle El is at least 30 receptions short of being a #2 wide receiver, and he is at least twenty catches short of being a #3, but he is being paid as a #1 wide receiver.

I could go on but do I really need to?

You are just dead wrong on this. You wanted me to compare ARE to other good teams' #2 and #3 WR, well here you go. Here are the eleven of the playoff teams from last year and their #2 and #3 WRs (and some #1). ARE was on par (or better than) almost every #2 and was better than EVERY #3 WR.

NE #3 WR was Donte Stallworth 46 catches/697 yards
CB #3 WR was Chris Henry 21/343
DC #2 WR was P Crayton 50/697
DC #3 WR was S Hurd 19/314
GBP #2 WR was G Jennings 53/920
GBP #3 WR was J Jones 47/697
IC #2/3 WR was M Harrison 20/247
IC #3/2 WR was A Gonzalez 37/576
JJ #1 WR was E Wilfort 45/518
JJ #2 WR was D Northcut 44/601
JJ #3 WR was R Williams 38/629
NYG #2 WR was A Toomer 59/760
NYG #3 WR was S Moss 21/225
PS #2 WR was S Holmes 52/942
PS #3 WR was N Washington 29/450
SDC #1 WR was V Jackson 41/623
SDC #2 WR was C Chambers 35/555
SDC #3 WR was C Davis 20/188
SS #2 WR was N Burleson 50/694
SS #3 WR was D Branch 49/661

And here is another fact for you (I know you really don't like those), but ARE will only count 2.7 angainst the cap next year!

I see that you very conveniently left out touchdown numbers for all of those receivers.

That's because the Redskins were the only team in the ENTIRE NFL without a TD pass to any WR through 33 1/2 quarters last year. So contrary to the popular belief that the receivers didn't give Campbell much to work with, I'd say the reverse was true, and proven when Collins came in and immediately threw 2 in 4 minutes.

But you refuse to believe what we all witnessed with our own eyes.

RayNAustin wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally rediculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

What I am doing is stating an opinion. What you are doing is claiming you disagree with my opinion, without offering any explanation for why you disagree. I expected people to disagree. I was also hoping for more substance than "retarded" and "rediculous." Why is my opinion "retarded" and "rediculous?"

Is that a retorecle questions? Are you truely being serious?

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is opreety bad a a PR).

The guy that was signed to be the #2 WR had 2 receptions and 14 yards and was benched for most of the season because of his poor attitude while ARE played hurt!

Yeah I can see how ARE resembles BL

Do I really need to go into AA?

How about Randle El and Lloyd thrived in one system for a short amount of time. Both were overpaid to underperform by the Redskins as free agents.
Archuleta was overpaid to play a position other than his natural one. So was Randle El.

So AA was forced to play safety, a position he had played his whole professional career, and was forced to play out of position.

I never did buy the fact that they only brought him in to play run support and blitz and only someone very gullable would have.

GSPODS wrote:Most good teams third receivers had more catches than Randle El last season. Welker had 112. So did Houshmandzadeh as a #2. The Redskins entire wide receiving group had fewer catches last season than Moss and Welker, or Houshmandzadeh and Johnson.

You name two of the best #2 WR in the NFL and not #3 WRs.

GSPODS wrote:Randle El is at least 30 receptions short of being a #2 wide receiver, and he is at least twenty catches short of being a #3, but he is being paid as a #1 wide receiver.

I could go on but do I really need to?

You are just dead wrong on this. You wanted me to compare ARE to other good teams' #2 and #3 WR, well here you go. Here are the eleven of the playoff teams from last year and their #2 and #3 WRs (and some #1). ARE was on par (or better than) almost every #2 and was better than EVERY #3 WR.

NE #3 WR was Donte Stallworth 46 catches/697 yards
CB #3 WR was Chris Henry 21/343
DC #2 WR was P Crayton 50/697
DC #3 WR was S Hurd 19/314
GBP #2 WR was G Jennings 53/920
GBP #3 WR was J Jones 47/697
IC #2/3 WR was M Harrison 20/247
IC #3/2 WR was A Gonzalez 37/576
JJ #1 WR was E Wilfort 45/518
JJ #2 WR was D Northcut 44/601
JJ #3 WR was R Williams 38/629
NYG #2 WR was A Toomer 59/760
NYG #3 WR was S Moss 21/225
PS #2 WR was S Holmes 52/942
PS #3 WR was N Washington 29/450
SDC #1 WR was V Jackson 41/623
SDC #2 WR was C Chambers 35/555
SDC #3 WR was C Davis 20/188
SS #2 WR was N Burleson 50/694
SS #3 WR was D Branch 49/661

And here is another fact for you (I know you really don't like those), but ARE will only count 2.7 angainst the cap next year!

I see that you very conveniently left out touchdown numbers for all of those receivers.

That's because the Redskins were the only team in the ENTIRE NFL without a TD pass to any WR through 33 1/2 quarters last year. So contrary to the popular belief that the receivers didn't give Campbell much to work with, I'd say the reverse was true, and proven when Collins came in and immediately threw 2 in 4 minutes.

But you refuse to believe what we all witnessed with our own eyes.

Yes, you're right. It was all JC's fault. He injured Moss' hamstring. He made Moss forget how to catch a football. He told Lloyd to give up on his routes.

No....I suppose you're right. Going 8 games without a TD pass had nothing to do with the QB.....after all....he's great....everybody knows that.

I bet you right now....you won't see 8 games without a TD this year and have the same QB playing.

But I can hear it all now.....let's all say it together.....It's a new system...he needs time to learn it.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:Now I know you're just making retarded statements to get a reaction from other people. At least I hope that is the reason for this totally ridiculous post.

Some where between BL and AA, just a plain stupid post.

What I am doing is stating an opinion. What you are doing is claiming you disagree with my opinion, without offering any explanation for why you disagree. I expected people to disagree. I was also hoping for more substance than "retarded" and "ridiculous." Why is my opinion "retarded" and "ridiculous?"

Is that a rhetorical questions? Are you truly being serious?

If so I will submit that ARE had 51 catches for 728 yard and a 14.3 average and two 100 yard games. Not too shabby for a guy that played nicked up and was signed to be a #3 WR and PR (I agree that he is pretty bad a a PR).

The guy that was signed to be the #2 WR had 2 receptions and 14 yards and was benched for most of the season because of his poor attitude while ARE played hurt!

Yeah I can see how ARE resembles BL

Do I really need to go into AA?

How about Randle El and Lloyd thrived in one system for a short amount of time. Both were overpaid to under perform by the Redskins as free agents.
Archuleta was overpaid to play a position other than his natural one. So was Randle El.

So AA was forced to play safety, a position he had played his whole professional career, and was forced to play out of position.

I never did buy the fact that they only brought him in to play run support and blitz and only someone very gullible would have.

GSPODS wrote:Most good teams third receivers had more catches than Randle El last season. Welker had 112. So did Houshmandzadeh as a #2. The Redskins entire wide receiving group had fewer catches last season than Moss and Welker, or Houshmandzadeh and Johnson.

You name two of the best #2 WR in the NFL and not #3 WRs.

GSPODS wrote:Randle El is at least 30 receptions short of being a #2 wide receiver, and he is at least twenty catches short of being a #3, but he is being paid as a #1 wide receiver.

I could go on but do I really need to?

You are just dead wrong on this. You wanted me to compare ARE to other good teams' #2 and #3 WR, well here you go. Here are the eleven of the playoff teams from last year and their #2 and #3 WRs (and some #1). ARE was on par (or better than) almost every #2 and was better than EVERY #3 WR.

NE #3 WR was Donte Stallworth 46 catches/697 yards
CB #3 WR was Chris Henry 21/343
DC #2 WR was P Crayton 50/697
DC #3 WR was S Hurd 19/314
GBP #2 WR was G Jennings 53/920
GBP #3 WR was J Jones 47/697
IC #2/3 WR was M Harrison 20/247
IC #3/2 WR was A Gonzalez 37/576
JJ #1 WR was E Wilfort 45/518
JJ #2 WR was D Northcut 44/601
JJ #3 WR was R Williams 38/629
NYG #2 WR was A Toomer 59/760
NYG #3 WR was S Moss 21/225
PS #2 WR was S Holmes 52/942
PS #3 WR was N Washington 29/450
SDC #1 WR was V Jackson 41/623
SDC #2 WR was C Chambers 35/555
SDC #3 WR was C Davis 20/188
SS #2 WR was N Burleson 50/694
SS #3 WR was D Branch 49/661

And here is another fact for you (I know you really don't like those), but ARE will only count 2.7 against the cap next year!

I see that you very conveniently left out touchdown numbers for all of those receivers.

That's right, but it wasn't convenience. GSPODS and I never mentioned TDs. I was offering proof that his statement about ARE being 30 receptions short of a #2 and 20 catches short of a #3 WR was simply not true.

AND I think I did a pretty good job!

skinsfan#33 wrote:You are just dead wrong on this. You wanted me to compare ARE to other good teams' #2 and #3 WR, well here you go. Here are the eleven of the playoff teams from last year and their #2 and #3 WRs (and some #1). ARE was on par (or better than) almost every #2 and was better than EVERY #3 WR.

And here is another fact for you (I know you really don't like those), but ARE will only count 2.7 angainst the cap next year!

Way to cherry pick stats to try to prove a point:

By Receptions, Randle El was tied for 59th in the NFL.
By Yardage, Randle El was 46th in the NFL.
By receiving average per reception, Randle El was tied for 57th.
By receiving yard per game, Randle El was 50th.
By Touchdowns, Randle El tied for 144th in the NFL.
By First Downs, Randle El was tied for 37th in the NFL.
By First Down Percentage, Randle El was 61st in the NFL.

There are only 32 #2 wide receivers in the NFL. And Randle El is the #2 wide receiver, not the #3 wide receiver, in all of the above stats. There are only 64 #2 and #3 wide receivers in the NFL.

And, newsflash, what Randle El counts against this year's cap is not the extent of his contract. If his entire contract was $2.7M per season, I would not be comparing him with two other overpaid, underacheiving, out of system, out of position free agents.

We'll see what Randle El does as the #3 this season. I don't blame Randle El. I blame the Redskins for thinking they could plug yet another free agent into a different position and see the same results they saw on tape when Randle El was in a different system and a different roster position.
The same thing the Redskins did with Lloyd, Archuleta and several other high-priced free agents. The difference is that Randle El does give effort and so he is still on the team while none of the others are.

The top offensive teams in the NFL get 200 receptions from their #1 and #2 wide receivers. The Redskins didn't get 200 receptions from their entire wide receiving group last season. Chris ey has to be added to get to the 200 receptions mark. That is what I meant by Randle El having to add receptions. We weren't and aren't discussing Moss but he is well short of a #1 wide receiver and also needs to add at least 20 receptions.

The best passing offenses (and why would we wnat the Redskins to be less than the best) get and average of 100 receptions each from two of their top three wide receivers, and an average of 50 receptions from their third option.

The Redskins don't need 100 receptions from anyone if both Thomas and Kelly work out. 50 receptions each from Moss, Randle El, Thomas, and Kelly would be far better than anything their offense has done to this point. Adding in 50 receptions for ey and 50 receptions between Portis and Betts and this offense could make us say "New England Who?"

RayNAustin wrote:No....I suppose you're right. Going 8 games without a TD pass had nothing to do with the QB.....after all....he's great....everybody knows that.

I bet you right now....you won't see 8 games without a TD this year and have the same QB playing.

But I can hear it all now.....let's all say it together.....It's a new system...he needs time to learn it.

As I've said in other posts, it's quite naive to isolate and give total blame to any one individual on a team, especially a QB, who relies on the rest of his team for success. I'm not giving JC a free ride, and I'm not saying the majority of it wasn't his fault, but if you wanna call him Satan and Collins, the 38 yo CAREER back up, the second coming of Christ, then maybe you've gotten too much Austin sun...

The top offensive teams in the NFL get 200 receptions from their #1 and #2 wide receivers. The Redskins didn't get 200 receptions from their entire wide receiving group last season. Chris ey has to be added to get to the 200 receptions mark. That is what I meant by Randle El having to add receptions. We weren't and aren't discussing Moss but he is well short of a #1 wide receiver and also needs to add at least 20 receptions.

The best passing offenses (and why would we wnat the Redskins to be less than the best) get and average of 100 receptions each from two of their top three wide receivers, and an average of 50 receptions from their third option.


I wouldn't really say this is a viable conclusion. The ONLY teams last year to get two receivers totalling 200 rec is NE and CIN. These teams have premier QBs and incredible receivers.

Edit: Don't know what happened ....

Edit: Don't know what happened here, either. Screwy work Network....

VetSkinsFan wrote:The top offensive teams in the NFL get 200 receptions from their #1 and #2 wide receivers. The Redskins didn't get 200 receptions from their entire wide receiving group last season. Chris ey has to be added to get to the 200 receptions mark. That is what I meant by Randle El having to add receptions. We weren't and aren't discussing Moss but he is well short of a #1 wide receiver and also needs to add at least 20 receptions.

The best passing offenses (and why would we want the Redskins to be less than the best) get and average of 100 receptions each from two of their top three wide receivers, and an average of 50 receptions from their third option.


I wouldn't really say this is a viable conclusion. The ONLY teams last year to get two receivers totalling 200 rec is NE and CIN. These teams have premier QBs and incredible receivers.

I never said "two receivers totalling 200 receptions" with regard to the Redskins. I made that statement with regard to "the top offensive teams" in the league.
You don't want the Redskins to be a premier offense? (Rhetorical Question)
No Redskins fan would think to themselves, "Let's hope and settle for mediocrity." The point is, and I believe I stated this in the previous post, the Redskins need a minimum of 200 receptions by their wide receivers to be among the best, not necessarily 200 receptions from only Moss and Randle El, or Moss and Thomas. In the event nobody noticed, the entire Redskins offense only had 319 receptions last season. The entire Redskins offense had 3622 receiving yards last season. The entire Redskins offense had 18 receiving touchdowns last season. The entire Redskins offense had only 192 receptions for first downs last season.

With this group of receivers, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect 200 receptions from the wide-outs.

Moss - 60
Randle El - 60
Thomas - 30
Kelly - 30
Mix? - 30
Thrash? - 30

That would be a total of 240 receptions by the wide receivers.

Then add in the tight ends and the running backs, and this could be a dominant passing offense.

ey - 50
Portis - 25
Betts - 25
Sellers - 20
Cartwright - 10

That would be a total of 130 receptions by anyone other than the wide receivers. Together, that would be a total of 370 receptions, or nearly double last season's total. I don't think this is unreasonable.