The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Fun fact #4: If you do want to consider this a bust, then consider it the second or third biggest cap bust in Redskin management history (Coles, and Arch were actually probably worse).

When you factor in a 3rd and a 4th pick...it's gets my vote[/quote]

Thank God

BossHog wrote:What does that have to do with anything? Sure, doing the show with Brandon was great and we were appreciative, but do you see ANYTHING in my post that looks at all like it has to do with the play on the field, or even a personal opinion on Brandon?

We didn't do a show with Arch. We didn't do a show with Lavar. We didn't do a show with Coles. I don't feel any differently about their exits and the cap space they took with them... my post addressed nothing else.

Fair enough. Perhaps I should have made two posts to avoid the confusion. My 1st paragraph was in response to your post and how the dead cap issue is not exclusive to the Skins and doesn't always affect the final product, as in the Giants case. The last 3 paragraphs weren't directed at you but were merely an extension of my thoughts on the matter. Sorry, I understand where you're coming from.

As far as the end result of this, the dead cap money, as you clearly mentioned in your initial post, I absolutely agree with. It sucks and seems like such a waste. But other then for the end result, in no way shape or form would I compare what happened to Lloyd to what happened to LaVar and Arch.

I actually blame GW just as much for the LaVar and Arch situations. I believe it was GW that wanted to sign Arch and it was predominantly GW that drove LaVar out. The money aspect I do blame on the front office, which is what I believe you are referring to, so I agree. But I just see it as Snyder trying to facilitate what the coaches wanted.

But Lloyd is a much different issue. The mistake was signing him in the first place, not cutting him. I also read and heard the reports, one by Wilbon, that it was Gibbs that wanted to sign Lloyd and the front office warned him about character issues. I believe Gibbs thought he could break through with Lloyd. But never should a players bad behavior or lack of effort be rewarded just so his dead cap number is lessened. That would be condoning the behavior and an extremely poor example. They never should have signed him in the first place and that's where the mistake was made.

I understand and agree with you about overpaying and dead cap numbers from early releases. But in Lloyd's case, IMO, it's not the same. Lloyd brought this on himself and completely embarrassed Gibbs. But in no way, and let me be clear about this, is that "apologizing" for the organization. I have NEVER apologized on behalf of Snyder or the organization. Much like Arch, it was a bad investment, cut your losses, move on and hope they learn from their mistakes.

Vinny C was on the John Riggins show and pretty much blamed Lloyd for the Skins having to cut him. He said that B Lloyd is gone because he didn't care about football and was given plenty of chances to show that he did care about football or being a Redskin! He also said they had the right idea when they signed him, but just chose the wrong player.

He basically said that BL could have worked out if BL wanted to work out.

If Joe Gibbs can't getthe guy to be a team player and try hard then no coach will be able to. I'm not saying that a light will never go off in BL and light a fire under him to make him a good player, but that is all up to him.

Last I heard, Zorn wanted to speak to Lloyd and see where his head was at.
Guess we know now where it was found.
I'll file this under "Costly Failed Experiments", which is getting kinda full. Might have to get me one of those billowed folders to accomodate.
Later, B. We hardly knew ye. Go to the Eagles and burn us bad like everybody else does.

admin wrote:Fun fact: 7 million more dollars down the drain.

Fun fact #2: We just wasted enough money to sign 1 or 2 free agents

Fun fact #3: just another in a continuing line of scapegoat/cap destruction cast offs

Fun fact #4: If you do want to consider this a bust, then consider it the second or third biggest cap bust in Redskin management history (Coles, and Arch were actually probably worse).

Fun fact #5: This is the fourth year in a row that we have paid DEEPLY because of our need to 'dig our heels in'... Coles / Arrington / Arch / Lloyd.

Leading the league every year in dead cap is hardly something to aspire to... management seems incapable of figuring out that $15-20 million in dead cap is still $15-20M less that you get to spend on your roster - but how could that possibly affect the finished product, right?

And so what if we have to extend mid-30's players until 2015 just to get under the current cap, we can always start the Geritol Bowl in 2013...

Nothing fun about those facts BossHog.

In fact I am getting a stomach ache thinking about it. Heck why not give Lloyd a chance? This is what kills me the most.

I am hoping that this is finally it and we see more fiscal restraint in the future - surely this has got to sink in

I hope we do a complete reversal and sign only those FAs we think will help but only if they will sign contracts that have huge incentives in them to produce - if you don't want to play hard to earn your just rewards - go get rich elsewhere. Let NE win all the Super Bowls and overpay, we are not interested.

Get rid of Cerrato before he finds someone great and everyone says we should keep him

Wherever the blame falls, and Lloyd deserves his fair share, it just didn't work out. Too bad it costs the Skins so much, but maybe they'll learn their lesson.



. . . .

Irn-Bru wrote:Wherever the blame falls, and Lloyd deserves his fair share, it just didn't work out. Too bad it costs the Skins so much, but maybe they'll learn their lesson.



. . . .

Remember back when everyone said that they were stuck with AA because of his big deal then Carter was less then advertised and ARE/BLloyd just weren't #2 receivers whom the Redskins gave the same type of deals?

I noted the way the deals were put together if things didn't work out they could dump them early in the contrracts and live with the dead money.

I have to take a bow and say I was correct this pains me because I not that type of person for one but most of the pain comes from knowing "the Danny" and his whatever you call a "lap dog" once it gets promoted are sitting around thinking everything worked out pretty good for them.

Unfortunately for us (the fans) there's nothing for them to learn, they think things are going as plan

I'm hoping we see restraint tomorrow and for the next few weeks - if we sign someone to a huge deal in the next few weeks, we are still in trouble BUT if we show some fiscal restraint this year and just add some affordable players and players who are willing to sign contracts with incentives that will only pay them well if they perform well - we just might start to get back into the game again - of course we still need a GM!


Cerrato is lower than scum for what he has done to this team - NOTHING gets him off the hook, nothing

SkinsJock wrote:Cerrato is lower than scum for what he has done to this team - NOTHING gets him off the hook, nothing

Players have to wait 5 years to be eligible for the Hall...



I could, maybe, possibly, kind of let it go after he's been gone half a decade...



MAYBE

1niksder wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Cerrato is lower than scum for what he has done to this team - NOTHING gets him off the hook, nothing

Players have to wait 5 years to be eligible for the Hall...



I could, maybe, possibly, kind of let it go after he's been gone half a decade...



MAYBE

I'm not sure about the timing but I would like to begin to see how long it would take

1niksder wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:Wherever the blame falls, and Lloyd deserves his fair share, it just didn't work out. Too bad it costs the Skins so much, but maybe they'll learn their lesson.



. . . .

Remember back when everyone said that they were stuck with AA because of his big deal then Carter was less then advertised and ARE/BLloyd just weren't #2 receivers whom the Redskins gave the same type of deals?

I noted the way the deals were put together if things didn't work out they could dump them early in the contrracts and live with the dead money.

I have to take a bow and say I was correct this pains me because I not that type of person for one but most of the pain comes from knowing "the Danny" and his whatever you call a "lap dog" once it gets promoted are sitting around thinking everything worked out pretty good for them.

Unfortunately for us (the fans) there's nothing for them to learn, they think things are going as plan

True... but when you add up the dead money, no player (Lloyd) and the two draft picks...I see no way that they can think it worked out ??

Llyod is just another failed experiment by Gibbs. He had many good ones, but some fans will only remember the bad ones, ie. Desmond Howard, etc.

Terps-n-Skins wrote:Llyod is just another failed experiment by Gibbs. He had many good ones, but some fans will only remember the bad ones, ie. Desmond Howard, etc.

You mean Super Bowl MVP Desmond Howard? (j/k) I think that was just a case of trying to make him something that he wasn't. But Lloyd truly was disappointing, a combination of poor luck and poor effort.

Some players don't make it. Who can describe Gary Beban's contribution to the Skins without looking him up on Wiki-whatever?

Fans and the newspapers screamed that George Allen was insane to trade future draft choices for Diron Talbert, Richie Petibon, and the entire Rams starting LB set, and to collect McDole, and then to trade a second round for Billy Kilmer, and later to trade firsts for Dave Butz and Joe Theisman.

NFL players are hard to judge, and it's hard to predict how they'll play.

1niksder wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Cerrato is lower than scum for what he has done to this team - NOTHING gets him off the hook, nothing

Players have to wait 5 years to be eligible for the Hall...



I could, maybe, possibly, kind of let it go after he's been gone half a decade...



MAYBE

Come on guys. If Cerrato wins a SuperBowl all will be forgiven. All of us here would.

DEHog wrote:

1niksder wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:Wherever the blame falls, and Lloyd deserves his fair share, it just didn't work out. Too bad it costs the Skins so much, but maybe they'll learn their lesson.



. . . .

Remember back when everyone said that they were stuck with AA because of his big deal then Carter was less then advertised and ARE/BLloyd just weren't #2 receivers whom the Redskins gave the same type of deals?

I noted the way the deals were put together if things didn't work out they could dump them early in the contrracts and live with the dead money.

I have to take a bow and say I was correct this pains me because I not that type of person for one but most of the pain comes from knowing "the Danny" and his whatever you call a "lap dog" once it gets promoted are sitting around thinking everything worked out pretty good for them.

Unfortunately for us (the fans) there's nothing for them to learn, they think things are going as plan

True... but when you add up the dead money, no player (Lloyd) and the two draft picks...I see no way that they can think it worked out ??

I honestly dont think that Snyder and Cerratto thinks it actually worked out. I just really hope they learned a lesson. Hmmm.... Alot of us have said this numerous times hoping the front office learns there lesson. Deja Vu. Yikes!

LAKE FOREST, Ill. -- The Chicago Bears signed WR Brandon Lloyd to a one-year contract Friday. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Lloyd entered the NFL as a fourth-round draft pick (124th overall) of the San Francisco 49ers in 2003. In five NFL seasons with the 49ers (2003-05) and Washington Redskins (2006-07), the University of Illinois product appeared in 68 contests with 42 starts and caught 130 passes for 1,889 yards (14.5 ypc) and 13 touchdowns.

http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story?id=09000d5d80716d17&template=without-video&confirm=true


Hmm... I see a trend.... Archuleta & Lloyd.... what other 'Skins underachievers will the Bears sign?

Lol seriously?

andyjens89 wrote:

LAKE FOREST, Ill. -- The Chicago Bears signed WR Brandon Lloyd to a one-year contract Friday. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Lloyd entered the NFL as a fourth-round draft pick (124th overall) of the San Francisco 49ers in 2003. In five NFL seasons with the 49ers (2003-05) and Washington Redskins (2006-07), the University of Illinois product appeared in 68 contests with 42 starts and caught 130 passes for 1,889 yards (14.5 ypc) and 13 touchdowns.

http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story?id=09000d5d80716d17&template=without-video&confirm=true


Hmm... I see a trend.... Archuleta & Lloyd.... what other 'Skins underachievers will the Bears sign?

Are they making a run at P-RAM ??? LOL

Knowing our luck though he will go the pro-bowl.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I just KNEW that was gonna happen.

Apparently, he played under OC Ron Turner at U of Illinois so we shall see how it goes - but I think I know the answer.

no wonder my hair is white....

frankcal20 wrote:Knowing our luck though he will go the pro-bowl.

That made me laugh

andyjens89 wrote:

LAKE FOREST, Ill. -- The Chicago Bears signed WR Brandon Lloyd to a one-year contract Friday. Terms of the deal were not disclosed.

Lloyd entered the NFL as a fourth-round draft pick (124th overall) of the San Francisco 49ers in 2003. In five NFL seasons with the 49ers (2003-05) and Washington Redskins (2006-07), the University of Illinois product appeared in 68 contests with 42 starts and caught 130 passes for 1,889 yards (14.5 ypc) and 13 touchdowns.

[url]http://www.nfl.com/freeagency/story?

id=09000d5d80716d17&template=without-video&confirm=true[/url]

It is nice to see that there are other front offices more stoopid than ours.