The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:40 am**

SkinsFreak wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
I would target one guy in free agency to fill a need, Asante Samuel. I know he'll want big bucks, but he's worth it and we have a void at that position.

I'd be all over this one. Samuel can man up with the best of them... and he can lay the wood, when called for. With the quality of our Safety's, he would be a true terror in our defensive backfield.

Yeah, I agree. Doughty did show some development last year however I still think he's somewhat of a liability in pass coverage due to a lack of speed. The addition of Samuel would compensate for that and give us good depth at the position. Samuel, Springs, Smoot and Rogers would be nice.

Torrence and Eubanks are reasonable for depth, but I'm not sold on them as starters, even though Torrence had a few bright moments last year. For whatever reason, David Macklin didn't work out and I wonder if he'll be retained. I am still curious to see if Byron Westbrook will emerge or if he'll be given a legitimate chance. But the addition of Samuel would significantly strengthen our secondary so we could focus on the d-line in the draft.

Doughty is playing SS so I don't really think we should have him in coverage that much, anyway. As with a lot of later round picks, I think with the experience he's gotten last season and a good off-season, we'l see what he's about (of we give 'em a chance).

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2008 12:05 pm**

VetSkinsFan wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
I would target one guy in free agency to fill a need, Asante Samuel. I know he'll want big bucks, but he's worth it and we have a void at that position.

I'd be all over this one. Samuel can man up with the best of them... and he can lay the wood, when called for. With the quality of our Safety's, he would be a true terror in our defensive backfield.

Yeah, I agree. Doughty did show some development last year however I still think he's somewhat of a liability in pass coverage due to a lack of speed. The addition of Samuel would compensate for that and give us good depth at the position. Samuel, Springs, Smoot and Rogers would be nice.

Torrence and Eubanks are reasonable for depth, but I'm not sold on them as starters, even though Torrence had a few bright moments last year. For whatever reason, David Macklin didn't work out and I wonder if he'll be retained. I am still curious to see if Byron Westbrook will emerge or if he'll be given a legitimate chance. But the addition of Samuel would significantly strengthen our secondary so we could focus on the d-line in the draft.

Doughty is playing SS so I don't really think we should have him in coverage that much, anyway. As with a lot of later round picks, I think with the experience he's gotten last season and a good off-season, we'l see what he's about (of we give 'em a chance).

On running downs, yes, you are right, they will move Doughty up in the box for run support. But he is a safety, plays in the secondary and will remain there in nickel and dime packages and on passing downs. He was beat several times last year even on crossing routes. But he has gotten better, no argument there.

Nevertheless, I still like the acquisition of a CB and I believe it's on the menu this offseason. That's just my opinion and I could be wrong.

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:30 pm**

Vinny was on Redskins radio last friday and when Bram asked him about what they were looking for in the draft Vinnys answer was Corner (depending on Carlos' recovery), defensive tackle, and defensive end.

I agree with Blache, the defense starts with the defensive backs. If you can't cover man-to-man it really limits what you can do defensively.

I've heard Carlos is recovering nicely, but I really doubt he'll be ready to go this year.

With the good news on Rocky, we should be okay at linebacker, and I really don't think we are (or ever were) serious about Briggs.

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:48 pm**

http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34543

Cerrato: Redskins' Needs Include WR, CB
By Gary Fitzgerald
Redskins.com
February 19, 2008

A big wide receiver, a cornerback and versatile offensive and defensive linemen top the Redskins' off-season wish list.

Executive vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato outlined the Redskins' needs in an interview with Redskins Radio's Larry Michael and Bram Weinstein on Feb. 15.

The Redskins' offense have played without a tall, rangy wide receiver for several years. With head coach Jim Zorn installing the West Coast offense this year, it's thought that a big receiver is needed to run specific routes in that scheme.

In free agency, there are several receivers who could fit the bill, including Arizona's Bryant Johnson and Chicago's Bernard Berrian. New England's Randy Moss is another option, but the Patriots could slap the franchise tag on him, thereby limiting his availability.

Seattle's D.J. Hackett, also a free agent, has familiarity with Zorn's offense. He is 6-2 and 205 pounds.

In the draft, scheduled for April 26-27, the Redskins could eye prospects Malcolm Kelly of Oklahoma, Limas Sweed of Texas and James Hardy of Indiana.

Vinny Cerrato (Don Wright Photo)
Cerrato discussed Kelly and Sweed during the Redskins Radio interview.

"Malcolm Kelly is a very talented big guy," Cerrato said. "He can run and he's very smooth and fluid. He had an outstanding year for Oklahoma and he'll probably go in the top 15 of the draft.

"Limas Sweed--he missed a lot of the year with a wrist injury and he re-injured it at the Senior Bowl a few weeks ago. He is another big guy. Limas will probably go late in the first round or early in the second, depending on how he does at the [NFL Scouting Combine]."

Cornerback has become a need position due to Carlos Rogers's knee ligament surgery last November. Rogers is expected to be full-go by September or October, according to director of sports medicine Bubba Tyer.

Said Cerrato: "Depending on Carlos, we'll probably have to look to the draft and get a corner."

Leodis McKelvin of Troy State, Michael Jenkins of South Florida, Dominique Rogers-Cromartie and Terrell Thomas of USC are among the top draft prospects at cornerback.

New England's Asante Samuel is the top free agent cornerback available, but he could command a hefty price tag.

Cerrato also pointed to the need for an interior defensive lineman "who has some pass-rushing ability."

With speed rushers Andre Carter, Marcus Washington and Chris Wilson coming off the edge, the defensive line could use more push from the inside.

Said Cerrato: "Everybody talks about how you need a pass-rushing left end, but Andre Carter had 10.5 sacks from the right side, and from the left side Marcus and Chris Wilson had nine sacks. So to add some more pass rush up the middle would be something we'd look at."

Cerrato said the prototype for this type of defensive lineman would be the New York Giants' Justin Tuck, who had 10 sacks last season alternating at end and tackle.

Cerrato added the team would like to add another young defensive end to develop, as well as improve depth at linebacker and safety.

The Redskins could also look to bring in a "swing offensive lineman" who can play center/guard or tackle/guard.

"You have to be a versatile guy," Cerrato said.

A backup fullback to Mike Sellers is also a need because the West Coast offense requires more depth at fullback, Cerrato said.

Currently, the Redskins have Nehemiah Broughton as the only other fullback on the roster behind Sellers. Broughton is coming off a knee injury suffered last offseason.

It looks like we will take a CB high, but I question the wisdom of the move.

Posted: **Tue Feb 19, 2008 4:34 pm**

chiefhog44 wrote:I would agree with you but I don't think you need to go out and shoot your wad on Asante Samuel when you have two good starters to begin with in Smoot and Springs. I think we have to pick a CB in the second. There are five or six solid CB prospects in this draft and one will drop to us in the second.

You may be right...

Vinny wrote:Said Cerrato: "Depending on Carlos, we'll probably have to look to the draft and get a corner."

Posted: **Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:34 pm**

The Atlanta Falcons continued their franchise makeover in earnest on Friday, releasing tight end Alge Crumpler, quarterback Byron Leftwich, offensive tackle Wayne Gandy and four other players.

The team also announced it had released cornerback Lewis Sanders, wide receiver Jamin Elliott, linebacker Marcus Wilkins and defensive tackle Rod Coleman.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3247718

I know we need an interior lineman. What about Rod Coleman?

Coleman, a Pro Bowl selection two years ago who led NFL interior linemen with 52½ sacks from 2001-07, hurt his hand and triceps in Atlanta's 31-7 loss to Tampa Bay last week.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3121055
Since vinnie said on redskins tv today that we need a DT Im thinking this might be worth looking into.

Posted: **Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:40 am**

I read an article today as I cmmunted to work that said Bache is a HUGE proponent for filling thru the draft. It's an isolated article, so take it with a grain of salt.

Posted: **Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:21 pm**

Vinny Cerrato wrote:"Our cap situation is okay. I just think there's a limited number of guys in free agency. The price of what guys are going to be paid is astronomical. I don't foresee us being a big player. It'll be a shock to some, but I don't see us being a big player in free agency. I don't think Dan's plane will be getting fired up and ready to go. I just think it'll be a quiet start to free agency for us."
On Cartwright: "Rock was a very productive player for us. I think he wants to see what his value is on the open market."
On Collins, "I think he wants to see what's out there. I think he wants to see if there's an opportunity for him to be a starting quarterback. If not, I think he's very open to coming back."
On Springs: "I think we're on the same page with Shawn."

Posted: **Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:29 pm**

Jim Zorn on offseason needs wrote:Zorn said he wants Collins back as a backup. Campbell is the clear-cut starter and will be cleared for drills the first time the team takes the field in the offseason. He said he wants Springs back and Cartwright back. He said Carlos Rogers won't be ready for the start of the season. He said he likes the wide receivers he has, although not ruling out getting another one. He listed his positions of need as safety, cornerback, depth on the offensive line and backup quarterback.

No defensive line needs? Although didn't we just hear that Blache wants to put emphasis on the d-line?

Posted: **Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:27 pm**

I'd like to see us get two things in Free Agency...for sure:

1) A big WR in Bryant Johnson -- hopefully, he isn't major bucks.
2) Samuels as our #1 CB -- cut Springs. Springs will be a bigger cap hit in 2008 (and maybe in 2009) than signing Samuels. Samuels is younger and Springs gets hurt too much, so it's time to replace him now.

Also sign a few cheaper guys to fill in wherever needed...a FB like Tony Richardson from the Vikes (I haven't seen anything about them resigning him), a LB like Boss Bailey to replace LB Godfrey (assuming Champ doesn't tell Boss NOT to come to DC), an interior OL like Sean Locklear (from Seattle) to replace Fabini or Pucillo. If any of these 3 guys are high priced, we should pass and find another servicable player but we must only sign younger guys -- 29 and no more.

As far as the draft I'd like to see us go this way:

best DL (T or E) in the 1st
best interior Olineman in the 2nd
best available O or D Lineman in the 3rd
No 4th rounder
3rd string QB in the 5th
backups and ST players in the 6th & 7th

I hate when we have to draft a need position over the best available but until we're a solid playoff team we can't afford to do that.

Posted: **Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:49 pm**

SkinsFreak wrote:
Jim Zorn on offseason needs wrote:Zorn said he wants Collins back as a backup. Campbell is the clear-cut starter and will be cleared for drills the first time the team takes the field in the offseason. He said he wants Springs back and Cartwright back. He said Carlos Rogers won't be ready for the start of the season. He said he likes the wide receivers he has, although not ruling out getting another one. He listed his positions of need as safety, cornerback, depth on the offensive line and backup quarterback.

No defensive line needs? Although didn't we just hear that Blache wants to put emphasis on the d-line?

He prob just forget to mention it. Vinny has talked about DT and DE being areas of need. No way are safety and cb bigger needs than dline.

Posted: **Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:26 am**

CanesSkins26 wrote: No way are safety and cb bigger needs than dline.

I think d-line, CB and safety are ALL areas of need.

They may not be all Pro Bowlers, but we do have some depth on the d-line:

Montgomery
Griffin
Golston
Carter
Daniels
Wilson
Alexander
Boschetti
Buzbee
Tommy Davis
Demetric Evans
Kevin Huntley

Numbers wise, that's a lot of guys. Not all are great, we still need a dominant, but there is some depth on the roster.

Safety on the other hand... ugh... we have no depth. I like Reed a lot, but I still don't see him as having starting caliber skills in this league. (sorry) It's been reported that Prioleau may follow Williams, but if he stays, he's still a 2nd tier player. Other than that, Vernon Fox and old-timer Omar Stoutmire are mediocre at best, and that's sugar coated. So from my perspective, I definitely rank safety as a position of need.

We all know how Blache feels about the CB position. Springs will probably remain for one more year, but beyond that, I'd wager he's gone. Rogers is coming off a major injury. Torrence and Eubanks are 2nd and 3rd tier players respectfully. I'm hoping Westbrook develops, but that's an unknown at this point. So again, we need to add a young CB to groom for the future and as a 'safety net' this year in case of injuries. As I've said before, in 2006 and 2007, lack of quality depth at the CB position really hurt the team.

Posted: **Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:45 am**

SkinsFreak wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote: No way are safety and cb bigger needs than dline.

I think d-line, CB and safety are ALL areas of need.

They may not be all Pro Bowlers, but we do have some depth on the d-line .....
Numbers wise, that's a lot of guys. Not all are great, we still need a dominant, but there is some depth on the roster.

Safety on the other hand... ugh... we have no depth. I like Reed a lot, but I still don't see him as having starting caliber skills in this league. (sorry) It's been reported that Prioleau may follow Williams, but if he stays, he's still a 2nd tier player. Other than that, Vernon Fox and old-timer Omar Stoutmire are mediocre at best, and that's sugar coated. So from my perspective, I definitely rank safety as a position of need.

We all know how Blache feels about the CB position. Springs will probably remain for one more year, but beyond that, I'd wager he's gone. Rogers is coming off a major injury. Torrence and Eubanks are 2nd and 3rd tier players respectfully. I'm hoping Westbrook develops, but that's an unknown at this point. So again, we need to add a young CB to groom for the future and as a 'safety net' this year in case of injuries. As I've said before, in 2006 and 2007, lack of quality depth at the CB position really hurt the team.

DEFENSIVELY IMO I would hope we can add a "dominant" DE or DT, a CB like Samuels and a good young safety.

I also think the reason Zorn did not get too specific on the defensive side is because he has Blache :wink:

Posted: **Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:34 pm**

I think Chris Wilson can become something special if he keeps working and is given a chance

Posted: **Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:12 pm**

Doughty played well down the stretch, but I agree that we ned depth at S. We have 5 on roster & 2 are UFA's. As for bodies at DL (DE really), we also have a lot of bodies at CB. 9 CB's 7 DE's & 12 WR's. That doesn't mean much. Many are street free agents who probably don't belong in the NFL.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:26 am**

ttit signed Zach Thomas... everyone is applauding the Redskins for not being active in FA and I don't get it, its like yeah we got burned on some guys, but without them whose to say we wouldn't have been just as bad. I like the aggressive targeting of high priced big name free agents, as a fan its exciting and it generally improves a team.

I want Randy Moss.

I want Faneca

I want DeAngelo Hall

Throw in Shaun Rogers

That to me is a solid off-season. All this playing it conservative is for the birds.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:48 am**

julius peppers is available...

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:28 am**

Gibbs4Life wrote:ttit signed Zach Thomas... everyone is applauding the Redskins for not being active in FA and I don't get it, its like yeah we got burned on some guys, but without them whose to say we wouldn't have been just as bad. I like the aggressive targeting of high priced big name free agents, as a fan its exciting and it generally improves a team.

I want Randy Moss.

I want Faneca

I want DeAngelo Hall

Throw in Shaun Rogers

That to me is a solid off-season. All this playing it conservative is for the birds.

Every team has 53 players under the salary cap. The teams that consistently win are the ones who have players that play BETTER than what they're paid. There is really only one way to get players whose performance exceeds their salary. THE DRAFT. So, while it may be fun to get a quick fix every year by going after the big free agent names, they rarely improve the team much, because those big name players are getting paid what they're worth and in many cases (Lloyd, ARE, Brunell, Archuleta) more than their worth.

So, while we pay 110 mil in payroll for a team that plays like a 90 mil team, the Patriots pay 110 mil for a team that plays like 200 mil. The majority of their players are from the draft. By building a team through the draft and finding 17 or 18 starters through the draft, they can afford to take a chance on a free agent every once in a while. We can't because we haven't found enough value through the draft so we're constantly jammed right up against the cap and giving away more future draft picks to try and patch holes. Bad business.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:56 am**

The Patriots are always under the cap because the price of good video equipment rises every year and they'd be screwed if they didn't have the monies to get the top of the line spy gear

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:01 pm**

SkinsFreak wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote: No way are safety and cb bigger needs than dline.

I think d-line, CB and safety are ALL areas of need.

They may not be all Pro Bowlers, but we do have some depth on the d-line:

Montgomery
Griffin
Golston
Carter
Daniels
Wilson
Alexander
Boschetti
Buzbee
Tommy Davis
Demetric Evans
Kevin Huntley

Numbers wise, that's a lot of guys. Not all are great, we still need a dominant, but there is some depth on the roster.

Safety on the other hand... ugh... we have no depth. I like Reed a lot, but I still don't see him as having starting caliber skills in this league. (sorry) It's been reported that Prioleau may follow Williams, but if he stays, he's still a 2nd tier player. Other than that, Vernon Fox and old-timer Omar Stoutmire are mediocre at best, and that's sugar coated. So from my perspective, I definitely rank safety as a position of need.

We all know how Blache feels about the CB position. Springs will probably remain for one more year, but beyond that, I'd wager he's gone. Rogers is coming off a major injury. Torrence and Eubanks are 2nd and 3rd tier players respectfully. I'm hoping Westbrook develops, but that's an unknown at this point. So again, we need to add a young CB to groom for the future and as a 'safety net' this year in case of injuries. As I've said before, in 2006 and 2007, lack of quality depth at the CB position really hurt the team.

I agree that we need depth at safety and cb. However, we need STARTERS on the defensive line. We have a very good secondary as far as our starters are concerned. Doughty might not be ideal, but he showed some flashes last season and is good enough. Our defensive line, on the other hand, is terrible. Carter's 10.5 sacks are nice, but as a unit there is no consistent pass rush coming from the outside and there is no push up the middle. Ideally, we need a new starter at DE (Daniels is totally ineffective) and a starter at DT (Golston is a backup and Griffin isn't anywhere near the player he was a few years ago). The defensive line has been neglected for FAR too long on this team, as we haven't used a high pick on a dlineman in a long time.

If this year's playoffs showed us anything, it's that having a dominant defensive line makes up for deficiencies everywhere else in the defense. Go down the list of playoff teams this season and the majority of them have very good defensive lines. Our game against the Seahawks showed just how overmatched both of our lines were. Opposing quarterbacks have far too much time to hold the ball against us, and it doesn't matter who you put in the secondary if you can generate pressure on the qb with your front four.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 9:47 pm**

CanesSkins26 wrote:We have a very good secondary as far as our starters are concerned. Doughty might not be ideal, but he showed some flashes last season and is good enough.

I agree that we need defensive line help, I've maintained that opinion for some time now. But I don't agree our secondary, and especially Doughty, are "good enough", and obviously, neither do the coaching staff, as they listed CB and SS as areas of need.

Smoot is pretty good, but not elite. We all know Rogers won't be 100% for quite a while. Springs is good, but injured quite often, is getting up there in age, and won't be here after this year. Landry is the real deal, but he's still basically a rookie.

Doughty? Come on. Some are getting carried away here. Yes, he made a few nice plays and a few nice tackles last year. But flashes? I beg to differ, and my game tapes don't lie. He ran a 4.65 at the combine and I seriously doubt he's faster now, years later and now that he's older. That means he can barely break a 4.7. That sucks for a DB. He was burned numerous times last year, even on the short crossing routes. He's decent on run support, I'll give him credit for that, but absolutely blows in coverage and is a major liability in that regard. Sorry, I like the dude, he's a nice guy, but he's barely average at best. He's getting the "Ramsey" treatment around here... meaning, his playability is artificially inflated because he's a nice guy. I still think he'll be the starter going into next season, as Vinny recently eluded to, but they'll look to strengthen that position somehow.

I still think they'll upgrade the d-line, no doubt, but there's going to be some emphasis applied to our secondary as well.

Posted: **Sun Feb 24, 2008 10:15 pm**

I still think they'll upgrade the d-line, no doubt, but there's going to be some emphasis applied to our secondary as well.

As well there should be. Both dline and the secondary need to be addressed. However, they need to make sure that they find starters for our dline before they go looking for depth in the secondary.

Smoot and Springs might not be the most elite corners in the NFL, but looking at the playoff teams how many teams do you really think had a better starting group of corners? Obviously the Packers and Patriots come to mind, but there were playoff teams with who I would definitely not want to trade secondaries. Can't say the same for our dline. Can you think of a playoff team with a worse defensive line than ours?

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:46 am**

CanesSkins26 wrote:

I still think they'll upgrade the d-line, no doubt, but there's going to be some emphasis applied to our secondary as well.

As well there should be. Both dline and the secondary need to be addressed. However, they need to make sure that they find starters for our dline before they go looking for depth in the secondary.

Smoot and Springs might not be the most elite corners in the NFL, but looking at the playoff teams how many teams do you really think had a better starting group of corners? Obviously the Packers and Patriots come to mind, but there were playoff teams with who I would definitely not want to trade secondaries. Can't say the same for our dline. Can you think of a playoff team with a worse defensive line than ours?

I personally don't think the unit as a whole is as bad as you're making them out to be, but I do agree the d-line needs a starter to be added or worked in.

• Young defensive end and defensive tackle: The first priority is a pass-rushing defensive end, which would allow veteran Phillip Daniels to move to tackle more often.

The top ends available when the Redskins draft at No. 21 could be Calais Campbell of Miami and USC's Lawrence Jackson.

"There is a good group of ends who can also move inside," Redskins director of player personnel Scott Campbell said. "You prefer a guy who can move in and out like Phillip does for us."

As far as Doughty is concerned, it is my opinion he is the current weakest link on the entire defense. However, I know the coaches like him and think he's making progress. That's good and I genuinely hope he proves me wrong. I'll be pulling for him, not hoping he fails.

At safety, Cerrato said third-year player Reed Doughty will get a chance to start alongside LaRon Landry, but the team could add a veteran to mentor the duo.

"After listening to the coaches when we met the other day, the coaches were really happy with Reed and thought he improved as the season went along," Cerrato said.

That's good news. I don't believe they'll use a high draft pick on a safety and adding a vet to mentor the young guys seems like a wise move.

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:09 am**

SkinsFreak wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:We have a very good secondary as far as our starters are concerned. Doughty might not be ideal, but he showed some flashes last season and is good enough.

I agree that we need defensive line help, I've maintained that opinion for some time now. But I don't agree our secondary, and especially Doughty, are "good enough", and obviously, neither do the coaching staff, as they listed CB and SS as areas of need.

Smoot is pretty good, but not elite. We all know Rogers won't be 100% for quite a while. Springs is good, but injured quite often, is getting up there in age, and won't be here after this year. Landry is the real deal, but he's still basically a rookie.

Doughty? Come on. Some are getting carried away here. Yes, he made a few nice plays and a few nice tackles last year. But flashes? I beg to differ, and my game tapes don't lie. He ran a 4.65 at the combine and I seriously doubt he's faster now, years later and now that he's older. That means he can barely break a 4.7. That sucks for a DB. He was burned numerous times last year, even on the short crossing routes. He's decent on run support, I'll give him credit for that, but absolutely blows in coverage and is a major liability in that regard. Sorry, I like the dude, he's a nice guy, but he's barely average at best. He's getting the "Ramsey" treatment around here... meaning, his playability is artificially inflated because he's a nice guy. I still think he'll be the starter going into next season, as Vinny recently eluded to, but they'll look to strengthen that position somehow.

I still think they'll upgrade the d-line, no doubt, but there's going to be some emphasis applied to our secondary as well.

I agree. Flashes? Hardly. But I would say that it's not a position that we can fix this year. We have more pressing issues

Posted: **Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:26 am**

We NEED another safety and if Doughty starts there will be people extremely upset by mid-season because he isn't that good.

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Vinny Sheds Some Light On FA