The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Bob 0119 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

Gibbs

Year 1 = 6-10
Year 2 = 10-6
Year 3 = 5-11
Year 4 = 9-7

based on this pattern

Year 5 = 4-12
Year 6 = 8-8
Year 7 = 3-13
Year 8 = 7-9
Year 9 = 2-14
Year 10 = 6-10

How's that for continuity?

Who cares about continuity??

We have a new coach now. With change may come new things. So we just have to see what is in store. It might be more losing years or it could be Super Bowls ahead? So we just have to see.

DEHog wrote:This post really says allot about where Synder has us fans now...you sound as not only like you expect meritocracy but your happy and looking forward to it??

It's gotten so bad around here that you'll are looking forward to Optimism??

I think you mean "mediocrity" rather than "meritocracy"???

I do not mean to embrace mediocrity -- only to say that the difference between being a great team and being a mediocre team is not as great as many people here seem to think. There are talented teams that underachieve. There are teams that are thin that overachieve. The formula for success is hard to predict.

I see no problem with Optimism. It sure beats the alternative, which is despair.

Bob 0119 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

Gibbs

Year 1 = 6-10
Year 2 = 10-6
Year 3 = 5-11
Year 4 = 9-7

based on this pattern

Year 5 = 4-12
Year 6 = 8-8
Year 7 = 3-13
Year 8 = 7-9
Year 9 = 2-14
Year 10 = 6-10

How's that for continuity?

Extrapolations such as this have no validity. Do you by any chance work for US Treasury Dept?

I don't know. I kind of think the offseason is exactly when the fans should be allowed to vent. I get more irritated about negativity during the regular season.

Either way this is an internet message board. Kind of comes with the territory. I enjoy reading everybody's comments whether I agree or not. There's even some really smart people posting on here.

DEHog wrote:

JonC56 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I seem to have irreconcilable differences with the way management operates. I am convinced that a flawed leadership at the Front Office will ALWAYS be unable to put a consistently winning team on the field. I truly harbouur no expectations whatsoever about the success of the Redskins under the ownership of Daniel Snyder as long as a competent GM is not named and given total control.

You guys are right. It makes no sense for somebody like me to ruin your experience. As one poster put it, we all have options. I will take advantage of one of them. It is time for me to take a break from the website for a while.

In the meantime I truly wish each and every one of you well and great success in all your future endeavours whether Skins related or life in general.

I wish to take advantage of this opportunity to thank Boss Hog and all the staff members for their hard work to keep this site alive. It takes great idealism and loyalty to put so many long hours of hard work to keep things going in an orderly manner.

Thanks for hosting the Hognostications. That was a lot of fun too.

Sooooo, coaxing Joe Gibbs, the most successful coach in Redskin history, and then having his team go to the playoffs 2 times in 3 years was not successful. Dan Snyder took over in 99 and all he has done is throw as much money possible to make this team a winner. To me he is a fans dream because he will spend the money on players. Now I understand that there is a learning curve, and I think that this franchise is on the right track. I mean it could be worse, imagine a guy like peter Angelos running the redskins.

The last three years where the most succesful the Redskins have been since 1991. It seems like people want to lambast the owner for any reason when the new staff we have in place hasnt even played a game, let alone a mini camp.

Snyder took the right step by hiring Gibbs, and hopefully we will have continued success as the owner matures.

We are always so quick to give Snyder credit for as you put “coaxing” Gibbs out of retirement… Really?? Did he put Gibbs thought the “process”? Did Gibbs have any 8 hour interviews; ever spend a night in the “guest house”. Of course not becuase hiring Gibbs is a no-brainers. Yes I reluctantly give him the credit but who among us wouldn’t have hired Gibbs? I fall short of giving him credit for “coaxing”

Please stop with the money!!! If that was the formula for success you are I could coach the team!! Here’s a a novel idea…why not dangle the carrot in front of the players instead of lining their pockets with it?? You say dream I say nightmare I wish he’d spend much less money!

The fact of the matter is, is that Dan Snyder was able to hire Gibbs to coach the Redksins. Gibbs could have taken any job with any team that was available, but Snyder brought him back to the Redskins. Give credit where credit is due. Snyder also allowed Gibbs to run the team his way, he allowed Spurrier to run the team his way(unsucessfully I may add), and shottenhiemer. He even fired cerrato when Shottenhiemer was hired. There is obvioulsy a learning curve and maturity process in becoming a good owner, and I think that Snyder is on the right path. Also the fact he is willing to spend money is a great thing, what is negative about that, and I think he is learning how to spend money THE RIGHT WAY.

I am going to wait and see how this team performs before i label this new regime a failure.

Snyder passionatly wants to make the Redskins a success on the field, and I respect that and appreciate that as a fan.

Gibbs could have taken any job with any team that was available, but Snyder brought him back to the Redskins.

Snyder made him the highest paid coach in the NFL. Were there any other teams that were willing to do that?

Snyder also allowed Gibbs to run the team his way, he allowed Spurrier to run the team his way(unsucessfully I may add), and shottenhiemer. He even fired cerrato when Shottenhiemer was hired.

He let Schottenheimer run the team his way for 1 season. When Schoettenheimer wouldn't give back control of personnel decisions, Snyder canned him after only 1 year as coach. That was a total joke.

Also the fact he is willing to spend money is a great thing, what is negative about that, and I think he is learning how to spend money THE RIGHT WAY.

What's negative about that is that Snyder thinks that he can just throw money around and buy a championship caliber team without actually going through a building process. The list of failed big name free agents is very long for the Skins. Is he learning? Perhaps. But we wont really know that until we see how the Skins approach free agency and the draft this season.

I am not that sure that I'm ready to say that Snyder of 2008 is the same as Snyder of 2003 - I think we will shortly see that the current edition is not the Snyder of 2001-3 where "everyone" got signed - I'm willing to wait and see - AND I will also be the first to say "I was wrong!" OR I will just love saying "you guys just have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to our "skins"

The fact of the matter is, is that Dan Snyder was able to hire Gibbs to coach the Redksins. Gibbs could have taken any job with any team that was available, but Snyder brought him back to the Redskins. Give credit where credit is due. Snyder also allowed Gibbs to run the team his way, he allowed Spurrier to run the team his way(unsucessfully I may add), and shottenhiemer. He even fired cerrato when Shottenhiemer was hired. There is obvioulsy a learning curve and maturity process in becoming a good owner, and I think that Snyder is on the right path. Also the fact he is willing to spend money is a great thing, what is negative about that, and I think he is learning how to spend money THE RIGHT WAY.

I am going to wait and see how this team performs before i label this new regime a failure.

Snyder passionatly wants to make the Redskins a success on the field, and I respect that and appreciate that as a fan.

In 2004 Arthur Blank (the owner of the Falcons) took allot of heat from the Atlanta press for not getting Gibbs to coach the Falcons. Blank and Gibbs were in business together at the time. Blank told the Atlanta press that one night while eating dinner Gibbs called him and told him he was thinking of getting back into coaching. Blank did not offer Gibbs the Atlanta job instead he got off the phone and flew to North Carolina and begged Gibbs to coach the Falcons…Blank said an hour into the conversation it was clear Gibbs could only coach one team…guess which one??

My point is there wasn’t a whole lot of persuasion that had to go into hiring Gibbs!
If you can’t understand why it would be better to dangle money in front of players instead of lining their pockets with it then it’s not worth having the conversation…again money does not equal success on the field.

DEHog wrote:

The fact of the matter is, is that Dan Snyder was able to hire Gibbs to coach the Redksins. Gibbs could have taken any job with any team that was available, but Snyder brought him back to the Redskins. Give credit where credit is due. Snyder also allowed Gibbs to run the team his way, he allowed Spurrier to run the team his way(unsucessfully I may add), and shottenhiemer. He even fired cerrato when Shottenhiemer was hired. There is obvioulsy a learning curve and maturity process in becoming a good owner, and I think that Snyder is on the right path. Also the fact he is willing to spend money is a great thing, what is negative about that, and I think he is learning how to spend money THE RIGHT WAY.

I am going to wait and see how this team performs before i label this new regime a failure.

Snyder passionatly wants to make the Redskins a success on the field, and I respect that and appreciate that as a fan.

In 2004 Arthur Blank (the owner of the Falcons) took allot of heat from the Atlanta press for not getting Gibbs to coach the Falcons. Blank and Gibbs were in business together at the time. Blank told the Atlanta press that one night while eating dinner Gibbs called him and told him he was thinking of getting back into coaching. Blank did not offer Gibbs the Atlanta job instead he got off the phone and flew to North Carolina and begged Gibbs to coach the Falcons…Blank said an hour into the conversation it was clear Gibbs could only coach one team…guess which one??

My point is there wasn’t a whole lot of persuasion that had to go into hiring Gibbs!
If you can’t understand why it would be better to dangle money in front of players instead of lining their pockets with it then it’s not worth having the conversation…again money does not equal success on the field.

Well the Atlanta job was an example of the media reporting a story where Gibbs was persuaded to take the Falcons coaching job. Who nows how many other offers Gibbs had on the table from other teams over the 12 or 13 year period after retiring from the Redskins. I gurantee you a coach of his calibur could have had his pick of the best job available each year.

The fact that you think that Gibbs coming back was just a foregone conclusion and had nothing to do with the way Snyder runs his team is ludicrious. The man brought JOE GIBBS back to coach the redksins, it still blows my mind. Do you think Gibbs was calling Snyder asking for a job, give me a break.



And to the other guy breaking down my post, schottenheimer was fired primarily because Snyder was salivating over the opportunity to have Spurrier caoch his football team.

Well the Atlanta job was an example of the media reporting a story where Gibbs was persuaded to take the Falcons coaching job. Who nows how many other offers Gibbs had on the table from other teams over the 12 or 13 year period after retiring from the Redskins. I gurantee you a coach of his calibur could have had his pick of the best job available each year.

What???...Not sure what you getting at here
Sorry but the Atlanta media didn’t even know or question Blank about it
Until after it was announced that Gibbs had been named the Redskins coach.

The fact that you think that Gibbs coming back was just a foregone conclusion and had nothing to do with the way Snyder runs his team is ludicrious. The man brought JOE GIBBS back to coach the redksins, it still blows my mind

I don’t think it was a forgone conclusion and yes I think it had everything to do with how Snyder was running the team. I think the way Snyder was running the franchise turned Gibbs stomach, I think he was getting an ulcer, losing sleep, food didn’t taste good, sex was bad …you get the point!

.

Do you think Gibbs was calling Snyder asking for a job, give me a break.

Calling no…called yes…and of course Snyder said well I need to do an interview, put you through the process...pack an overnight bag Joe it’s going to be a long one!!

DEHog wrote:

Well the Atlanta job was an example of the media reporting a story where Gibbs was persuaded to take the Falcons coaching job. Who nows how many other offers Gibbs had on the table from other teams over the 12 or 13 year period after retiring from the Redskins. I gurantee you a coach of his calibur could have had his pick of the best job available each year.

What???...Not sure what you getting at here
Sorry but the Atlanta media didn’t even know or question Blank about it
Until after it was announced that Gibbs had been named the Redskins coach.

The fact that you think that Gibbs coming back was just a foregone conclusion and had nothing to do with the way Snyder runs his team is ludicrious. The man brought JOE GIBBS back to coach the redksins, it still blows my mind

I don’t think it was a forgone conclusion and yes I think it had everything to do with how Snyder was running the team. I think the way Snyder was running the franchise turned Gibbs stomach, I think he was getting an ulcer, losing sleep, food didn’t taste good, sex was bad …you get the point!

.

Do you think Gibbs was calling Snyder asking for a job, give me a break.

Calling no…called yes…and of course Snyder said well I need to do an interview, put you through the process...pack an overnight bag Joe it’s going to be a long one!!

You sure can speculate with the best of em. Clemens should hire you to be a part of his legal team, to put a spin on his recent problems.

The only facts we know for sure is that Joe Gibbs came back to coach the Redskins when Snyder was the owner, and I will give Snyder some credit for doing so. You, by all means, feel free, to think that Snyder was in no way responsible for making that happen.

I will give you some credit, they sure are cute theories, though.

UK Skins Fan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

There's nothing "ostrich" about choosing the optimistic path. I'm well aware of the weaknesses of our front office, and I would rather they were corrected. But they are there, they aren't going anywhere, and there's nothing I can do about it.

It's not criticism of the front office that bothers me - it's just the fact that it seems to leak into each and every thread right now. It's boring, and smacks of self pity. That's a pretty unattractive thing to see.

All I hope for is that we leave the Snyder-bashing in the Snyder-bashing threads, and talk football in the football threads.

(d)oink wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

There's nothing "ostrich" about choosing the optimistic path. I'm well aware of the weaknesses of our front office, and I would rather they were corrected. But they are there, they aren't going anywhere, and there's nothing I can do about it.

It's not criticism of the front office that bothers me - it's just the fact that it seems to leak into each and every thread right now. It's boring, and smacks of self pity. That's a pretty unattractive thing to see.

All I hope for is that we leave the Snyder-bashing in the Snyder-bashing threads, and talk football in the football threads.

And since the FO decisions affect EVERYTHING below it, I think that it's valid. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it: There is a right, a CHOICE, on this board for you to make each and every time you click anywhere on the forums of this great site. To read or not to read. If you choose to read, then you HAVE TO deal with the optimism, pessimism, or indefference that all of the TRUE fans gather here and post. Maybe the venting is frustration, or it could be complete non-understanding of just what the heck the FO/coaches are doing.

On a comparative note, there are people here, namely me, that get tired of the blind optimism and borglike reaction to anything the FO/coaches do. Or the apparently blind who will start in approximately 3-4 months with the Super Bowl run before the team has even stepped on the field. Who's here to judge? YOU certainly are no better qualified to judge anyone else than I or anyone else. Some may be a lot better enducated on all things Redskins, but does that leave anyone actually more qualified? I think not, so you can continue in your terminally postive no matter what stance and I'm POSITIVE that the pessimists will continue in their terminally NEGATIVE stance and the rest will fall in the middle.

I'd rather not be characterised me as "terminally positive". It doesn't portray what my attitude is at all. I am optimistic, for sure, because I find that it's a whole lot easier to get through life that way, let alone following the Washington Redskins. But I'm not some Ned Flanders character, so jacked up on happiness that I can't see what's going on around here. I see reality, and the reality is that our front office is quite often baffling, and just as often infuriating. Unlike others, I don't see anything more sinister in their behaviour than possible incompetence though, but that's just my judgement.

I don't propose that I am better qualified to judge than anybody else, and I find the implication just a little puzzling.

I agree with many of the Snyder bashing thoughts on this site, but I choose not to participate very often in those threads. I make that choice freely, and am happy to walk on by. But, as I said, what frustrates me is that it sometimes seems to pervade every thread that we have.

Is it really necessary to invoke Snyder when discussing the merits of back-up offensive linemen and the like? I think not.

But for what it's worth, I often find blind optimism equally tedious.

And that's far too many personal pronouns from me for one day.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

(d)oink wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't get down with the ostrich mentality. Keep pretending like we are a consistent winner if it makes you feel good. Keep your heads in the sand. It is what it is, get over it.

There's nothing "ostrich" about choosing the optimistic path. I'm well aware of the weaknesses of our front office, and I would rather they were corrected. But they are there, they aren't going anywhere, and there's nothing I can do about it.

It's not criticism of the front office that bothers me - it's just the fact that it seems to leak into each and every thread right now. It's boring, and smacks of self pity. That's a pretty unattractive thing to see.

All I hope for is that we leave the Snyder-bashing in the Snyder-bashing threads, and talk football in the football threads.

And since the FO decisions affect EVERYTHING below it, I think that it's valid. I've said it before and I'll continue to say it: There is a right, a CHOICE, on this board for you to make each and every time you click anywhere on the forums of this great site. To read or not to read. If you choose to read, then you HAVE TO deal with the optimism, pessimism, or indefference that all of the TRUE fans gather here and post. Maybe the venting is frustration, or it could be complete non-understanding of just what the heck the FO/coaches are doing.

On a comparative note, there are people here, namely me, that get tired of the blind optimism and borglike reaction to anything the FO/coaches do. Or the apparently blind who will start in approximately 3-4 months with the Super Bowl run before the team has even stepped on the field. Who's here to judge? YOU certainly are no better qualified to judge anyone else than I or anyone else. Some may be a lot better enducated on all things Redskins, but does that leave anyone actually more qualified? I think not, so you can continue in your terminally postive no matter what stance and I'm POSITIVE that the pessimists will continue in their terminally NEGATIVE stance and the rest will fall in the middle.

I am a firm believer that in life if you have a positive attitude and an open mind that you will get more out of it.

you choose to use the word "blind" optimism, and I think that is an unfair generalization of the people here who choose to have a positive outlook.

Lets look at facts: we were a playoff team last year, almost every key player is returning besides maybe Cartwright, and we have a large part of the coaching staff returning from last year. We also really bought into the "team concept", and I dont think the veterans will change based upon the success they had once they really committed to that idea.

I think that this is the best team we have had since 1999, and we finally are developing a young quarterback who has plenty of potential.

Also there are plenty of terrible situations involving teams in the NFl right now. Look at the falcons, dolphiins, cheifs, and Bengals to name a few.


We have no infighting and players with egos that make them want to be larger then the team. Joe gibbs really set us up nicely to be a successful team for years to come.

Again, I think most members of this website are knowledgable fans who dont "blindly" do anything when it comes to judging the Redskins.

Not to be to preachy, but in life if you think positive, you will genarally be happy, and we do have a lot to be happy about as Redskins fans.

I'm not negative about everything Reskins. There are, however things that frustrate me that happens within the burgandy & gold organization. I think it's a great idea to express that here because someone normally has an inside line or a PoV that hasn't been considered by myself that sheds new light on a situation. Some things that aer posted my not seem negative to the poster, but interpreted negatively by other people at THN. There's a lot of context lost here on a forum in body language, specific mannerisms, tone of voice, ect. So with any interpretation, this needs to be taken into consideration. In addition, some of us (me specifically) lack the trait known as tact. It's bluntly stated with no sugar coating and that, also, is sometimes mistaken, for negativity. My bad, your fault. I'm not going to change the way I post/talk/write, b/c someone's 'tired of negativity.'


As for my blind optimism comment, there's NO WAY that you can justify telling me at this moment, before a snap has been played in the upcoming season, if we're Super Bowl contenders or not, yet we have some 'people' that seem to 'predict' it every year. THAT, my fellow THNer, is 'blind optimism.' I had otehr words chosen for that, and I thought that this term was a toned down and acceptable. I guess you can't please everyone all the time.....

VetSkinsFan wrote:As for my blind optimism comment, there's NO WAY that you can justify telling me at this moment, before a snap has been played in the upcoming season, if we're Super Bowl contenders or not, yet we have some 'people' that seem to 'predict' it every year. THAT, my fellow THNer, is 'blind optimism.'

I wouldn't argue with that!

JonC56 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

Well the Atlanta job was an example of the media reporting a story where Gibbs was persuaded to take the Falcons coaching job. Who nows how many other offers Gibbs had on the table from other teams over the 12 or 13 year period after retiring from the Redskins. I gurantee you a coach of his calibur could have had his pick of the best job available each year.

What???...Not sure what you getting at here
Sorry but the Atlanta media didn’t even know or question Blank about it
Until after it was announced that Gibbs had been named the Redskins coach.

The fact that you think that Gibbs coming back was just a foregone conclusion and had nothing to do with the way Snyder runs his team is ludicrious. The man brought JOE GIBBS back to coach the redksins, it still blows my mind

I don’t think it was a forgone conclusion and yes I think it had everything to do with how Snyder was running the team. I think the way Snyder was running the franchise turned Gibbs stomach, I think he was getting an ulcer, losing sleep, food didn’t taste good, sex was bad …you get the point!

.

Do you think Gibbs was calling Snyder asking for a job, give me a break.

Calling no…called yes…and of course Snyder said well I need to do an interview, put you through the process...pack an overnight bag Joe it’s going to be a long one!!

You sure can speculate with the best of em. Clemens should hire you to be a part of his legal team, to put a spin on his recent problems.

The only facts we know for sure is that Joe Gibbs came back to coach the Redskins when Snyder was the owner, and I will give Snyder some credit for doing so. You, by all means, feel free, to think that Snyder was in no way responsible for making that happen.

I will give you some credit, they sure are cute theories, though.

Falcons said Gibbs approached them several weeks ago and talked about their vacant coaching job.
"When the opportunity at the Redskins came up, Joe told us he couldn't turn his back on the history, fans, loyalties and relationships built over time in Washington," the Falcons' statement said. "While we understand his feelings, we are disappointed that he didn't continue his talks with us."

How soon we forget….December of 2003 the last game against the Eagles. I already knew that Spurrier was resigning (Confirm with BossHog if you like, he will tell I told him prior to the Eagles game) and Dan Snyder had a PR mess on his hands. The season ticket waiting list had (reportedly) dwindled to less than 30,000 as evidence by me getting tickets in 4 short years!!

While Snyder was interviewing potential candidates the news of Gibbs comes out.
Again I ask you how long do you think it took Snyder to offer Gibbs the job???

It went so fast that when Gibbs was announced he already had most of his coaching staff in place. There were no interviews or sleepovers. It was the perfect storm for Snyder, he gets a hall of fame coach and a coach the fans love and will support. I give him credit for doing what all of us would have done. It seems that where it begins and ends with Snyder. What has he done “outside of Gibbs” to warrant any respect as an owner??

On the other hand can you imagine if Gibbs had not come back??

I see allot of posts about being a positive/negative person…the Redskins have nothing to do with my personal life...it’s a game!!! At the end of the day I don’t care if they win lose or draw, I have so manymore pressing matters in my life than the Redskins it’s entertainment for me. Of course I root for them to do well as hard as that has become with Snyder as the owner.
Let’s get one thing straight I don’t like the way Snyder DOES business as opposed to the moves he makes.
In the end we are all Redskins fan I respect everyone opinions here!

Go Skins!!

DEHog wrote:I see allot of posts about being a positive/negative person…the Redskins have nothing to do with my personal life...it’s a game!!! At the end of the day I don’t care if they win lose or draw, I have so manymore pressing matters in my life than the Redskins it’s entertainment for me. Of course I root for them to do well as hard as that has become with Snyder as the owner.
Let’s get one thing straight I don’t like the way Snyder DOES business as opposed to the moves he makes.
In the end we are all Redskins fan I respect everyone opinions here!

Go Skins!!

I didn't draw that line until last season. The losses effected my life too much. Missing out on functions with friends/family just to see an "iffy" product wasn't working out. The Skins....it's just "ehhh" right now. Whatever they do is what they do. It's much less stressful this way.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

DEHog wrote:I see allot of posts about being a positive/negative person…the Redskins have nothing to do with my personal life...it’s a game!!! At the end of the day I don’t care if they win lose or draw, I have so manymore pressing matters in my life than the Redskins it’s entertainment for me. Of course I root for them to do well as hard as that has become with Snyder as the owner.
Let’s get one thing straight I don’t like the way Snyder DOES business as opposed to the moves he makes.
In the end we are all Redskins fan I respect everyone opinions here!

Go Skins!!

I didn't draw that line until last season. The losses effected my life too much. Missing out on functions with friends/family just to see an "iffy" product wasn't working out. The Skins....it's just "ehhh" right now. Whatever they do is what they do. It's much less stressful this way.

Chris one of the things I do now is coaching high school football...I get so much joy out of being on the field with the kids...a loss with them is better than any Redskin win!!

You know what the biggest problem is? This whole thing becomes a tug-of-war.

Those that don't like Snyder, are going to continue to dislike Snyder

Those that don't dislike him, are going to continue to defend him.

The problem is that these factions often find themselves at odds consistently in every thread. I hate to say it, but it's usually the pessimists who start it.

Those that don't dislike Snyder don't laud his decisions directly. We may voice our approval of the team's decision, but we don't go "you know I really like that guy Snyder."

Those that don't like him, make it clear they don't like him, in nearly every topic. "I like Jim Zorn, but Snyder is still an idiot" (or something to that effect).

This draws out the people that don't dislike Snyder to defend him. And rapidly the thread veers off-topic as the back and forth devolves into things that happened many years ago, or the price of beer, or the parking at the stadium, or that we need a GM, or whatever.

Before you know it, things devolve further into personal attacks. "Snyder's an idiot, and so are you for defending him" (or something like that), or "you're not a real fan if you don't like Snyder" (or similar verbage).

I stopped defnding Dan Snyder. Not because he's undefendable, but because it's not worth it. It's obvious I'm not going to change anyone's view, no matter how many facts I point out (like even the Great Charlie Casserly made some bonehead picks, Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook, Desmond Howard, Andre Johnson...proving that nobody's perfect). It's not worth the flaming if it's not going to change anyone's opinion. I found myself resenting other posters that I had come to respect, and in turn found that I was being resented.

I treat those posts as I would any other troll. I try to ignore them, and stay on topic.

At the heart of all of this is hope. Those who have it, and those who've lost it. We each pity the other. Those that have lost it, know the pain of losing it, and I think don't really want to regain it for fear of losing it again. Those of us who have it, cling to it. No matter how ridiculous it may seem to those who have lost it.

SkinsJock wrote:I am equally concerned about the Snyder Cerrato way of doing business and very much agree that we need a good GM BUT I am also cautiously optimistic that (now that Zorn is in place) Snyder and Cerrato will now leave the football decisions to their coaches and hopefully support them like they did with Gibbs - time will tell


Come back soon RiC

I hope so to, "cautiously optimistic" is how I feel right now as well.

Since Snyder has bougt the team I thought I would not be able to say that, with a few noticable exception: The Marty schottenheimer and Joe Gibbs years. I am hoping that Vinny and Danny have learned a little something about how to run a "winning" football team. We will not know until, at least, next season?

DEHog wrote:On the other hand can you imagine if Gibbs had not come back??

If he hadn't, the Redskins would be the laughing stock of the league. After Spurrier's last season was done, I heard Jay Leno (of all people) making a joke about the Redskins as the worst team in football. They were replacing the Bengals as the (insert here) sorriest team in the league.

Gibbs coming back gave them respectability. But if Zorn flummoxes it up badly enough, that respect will be lost, and the jokes will ensue.

But he won't, because we're going to WIN THE SUPERBOWL!!!

And in the great words of George Costanza, "It's not a lie if you believe it."

The negativity is towards the front office and Snyder in general, but I think we have to focus on how he has changed since his ownership began and look at his recent past. I guess one of the things that has really bothered me is how he treated people before Gibbs showed up. But I think he's gotten a lot better. Take the ST death. He went above and beyond helping the team and fans grieve ST. He was in a class of his own, flying the entire organization down to the funeral, setting up a trust fund for his fiancee, flying Pedro up to speak to the team, etc. That was awesome. You notice character when you rub against it, and he really showed his character during that time.

Fan's have also got to realize that there's a learning curve with owning a sports team. It's not something that many people just jump into a have immediate success, or success at all. So for all the early mistakes that fans are holding onto, cut him a break, he's learning.

I was pissed at the time about this coaching search. Keep in mind though, the vacancy came as a surprise to him as well as all of us, and, looking back I think he handled it well. I was one of the many fans who were complaining that the process seemed unorganized, and I think that was due to the media. Looking back, the process was very thorough, and he hired the best available coach IMO. He didn't hire a flash in the pan like he would have 8 years ago. He did his due dilegence.

The other thing that's changed is free agency spending. It's dropped considerably. He's not bringing in every has been to be on the team.

He's also no longer the face of the team either. For the past four years, you haven't heard boo from him, whereas the first few years as an owner, you would see and hear him all the time. Maybe that's due to Gibbs, but that's yet to be seen.

By living in Chicago and watching the Bears owner be cheap year in and year out, I really appreciate having an owner like Snyder who actually wants to win and will spend to do it. You have to appreciate that. He's giving his all and no one can deny that.

Yea, he's made some mistakes, but he's learning. He has heart, character, and money. Those are three things that most sports teams don't have in their owner.

Yea, it's time to stop the negativity. I'm cautiously optimistic that Snyder has changed his ways and we should support that.

Yea, he's made some mistakes, but he's learning.

I think it is too early to say that he is learning. It was only two years ago that we signed AA and Randle El, and traded for Lloyd. The coaching search was unorganized, as evidenced by hiring Zorn to be the OC and then a week later making him the HC. I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before. I think that free agency and the draft will tell us a lot about how much Snyder has really learned over the past few years.