The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Truth: I was angry when the Redskins fired Jack Pardee and hired Joe Gibbs. I felt: Pardee, Over-the-Hill-Gang, continuity with George Allen (first coach to take the Redskins to the playoffs since about 1945). Against Gibbs...who? An assistant to Coryell, our opponent from the Cardinals.

So...(note deep breath)...I hope Zorn does well. I don't expect Snyder to change into a good owner, but maybe...maybe he will learn something about being General Manager.

And maybe Zorn will be OK. I'm hoping.

Thanks welch - that's it in a nutshell.

can lightning strike twice?

while I don't expect as great a deal as Gibbs I - I do hope he gets things together quickly here

He'll be a great coach if he's given the time.

I was just thinking since I am quite the chef. Well at least thats what my friends and family say.

IF Zorn succeeds then I will offer free fried crow wings for all the non believers.

I'm not joining the list because my problem is not with Zorn. He may turn out to be great or a great big bust. I'm not concerned with that at all because it is what it is.

My concern is with the front office of this organization and how time after time they continue to make head-scratching, bone-headed, etc. decisions because it continues to be allergic to qualified NFL Front Office people.

I don't have an expectation for this team this year. If we suck, I won't be mad. If we win, that's cool.... But IMHO, this organization will not see it's best days until Daniel understands that football people not marketing people win championships.... He is so smart that he's dumb. If he would see that putting football people in the front office to build a lasting winner and him putting his marketing expertise behind that, will make this organization one of if not the richest in Pro Sports. Even bigger than Indy Car racing which has the richest believe it or not.....

BUMP

I noticed some people hatin' on Zorn since the preseason ended, and I wanted to invite you to join the list.

Any takers?

I won't be flip-floppin'. I'mm willing to admit my mistake and eat crow, should Jim Zorn turn this team around.

Anyone else?

I said it before the season started, and I'll say it again now. Zorn's got the tools to be a great coach. The patience of the front office will determine whether it is here or not.

As for this season, any success we have is just gravy. This season, to me, is Zorn's indoctrination. I expect to see the team progress this year as they collectively learn the offense, and I expect the swirling Zornado of anger progress in handling the players, the media, the play-calling and time management. If he and his team can do this, I look for them to be a contender next year.

JansenFan wrote:I said it before the season started, and I'll say it again now. Zorn's got the tools to be a great coach. The patience of the front office will determine whether it is here or not.

As for this season, any success we have is just gravy. This season, to me, is Zorn's indoctrination. I expect to see the team progress this year as they collectively learn the offense, and I expect the swirling Zornado of anger progress in handling the players, the media, the play-calling and time management. If he and his team can do this, I look for them to be a contender next year.

I.... agree with all of this but with a slightly different time table.

2008 - regress
2009 - back to par (2007, wild card berth)
2010 - legit contender with potential to win division

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
I.... agree with all of this but with a slightly different time table.

2008 - regress
2009 - back to par (2007, wild card berth)
2010 - legit contender with potential to win division

I'd say that's a fair timetable, not terribly unreasonable.

Fios wrote:How can we even assess that at this point though? I sure as hell hope he's a phenomenal success but I simply don't have any reliable way of determining that before I've seen him in the role.

C'mon, Fios. They gave it a whole game. Zorn is now on course to lose 100% of his games. You really think a guy who loses 100% of his games as HC isn't a horrible coach?

I want to go on the record as saying he will be a great success story for this franchise. The only caveat being that The Danny has to give him at least three seasons to achieve that success.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:I'mm willing to admit my mistake and eat crow, should Jim Zorn turn this team around

"Turn this team around?" I must remember making the playoffs last year wrong. Where did I get that crazy idea?

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:I'mm willing to admit my mistake and eat crow, should Jim Zorn turn this team around

"Turn this team around?" I must remember making the playoffs last year wrong. Where did I get that crazy idea?

Wow! and this coming from an acknowledged Gibbs disciple.

JSPB22 wrote:I want to go on the record as saying he will be a great success story for this franchise. The only caveat being that The Danny has to give him at least three seasons to achieve that success.

Agreed, but I'm not sure I see any reason to think Zorn won't get a fair shot. Turner sucked and certainly had plenty of chance to prove otherwise. Spurrier sucked and still it was he who quit himself after two years. It didn't sound like Danny was going to fire him at that point. Gibbs quit after 4. It was really only Marty that was quickly canned and since I hated him so much I was thrilled when the plug was pulled on him. I see no reason to think that Danny won't give Zorn at least 3 years and I agree with you if he does Zorn's going to be successful. He has a great pedigree and disposition to make it here.

And Redeemed, if I'm wrong you can quote me on this. A fan who's biased towards his team, what a moron I am.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I.... agree with all of this but with a slightly different time table.

2008 - regress
2009 - back to par (2007, wild card berth)
2010 - legit contender with potential to win division

Amen, brother. I hope you're right.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

JansenFan wrote:I said it before the season started, and I'll say it again now. Zorn's got the tools to be a great coach. The patience of the front office will determine whether it is here or not.

As for this season, any success we have is just gravy. This season, to me, is Zorn's indoctrination. I expect to see the team progress this year as they collectively learn the offense, and I expect the swirling Zornado of anger progress in handling the players, the media, the play-calling and time management. If he and his team can do this, I look for them to be a contender next year.

I.... agree with all of this but with a slightly different time table.

2008 - regress
2009 - back to par (2007, wild card berth)
2010 - legit contender with potential to win division

We're sort of on the same page. To me, making the playoffs in the NFC makes you a superbowl contender. The Giants showed us that last year. I don't think we'll win next year, but I think we can contend for a spot in the superbowl.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:I want to go on the record as saying he will be a great success story for this franchise. The only caveat being that The Danny has to give him at least three seasons to achieve that success.

Agreed, but I'm not sure I see any reason to think Zorn won't get a fair shot. Turner sucked and certainly had plenty of chance to prove otherwise. Spurrier sucked and still it was he who quit himself after two years. It didn't sound like Danny was going to fire him at that point. Gibbs quit after 4. It was really only Marty that was quickly canned and since I hated him so much I was thrilled when the plug was pulled on him. I see no reason to think that Danny won't give Zorn at least 3 years and I agree with you if he does Zorn's going to be successful. He has a great pedigree and disposition to make it here.

And Redeemed, if I'm wrong you can quote me on this. A fan who's biased towards his team, what a moron I am.

I just think The Danny has his eye on Cowher, and the lure of that hire might cause him to pull the plug on Zorn too early. I hope I'm wrong.

I really don't think Snyder's interested in Cowher as much as JLC is interested in reporting how much Snyder is interested in Cowher.

JSPB22 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:I'mm willing to admit my mistake and eat crow, should Jim Zorn turn this team around

"Turn this team around?" I must remember making the playoffs last year wrong. Where did I get that crazy idea?

Wow! and this coming from an acknowledged Gibbs disciple.

Absolutely, I would have let Gibbs coach my team until he quit no matter what. I said it, I meant it, I stick by it. But Gibbs retired, that doesn't mean I won't move on. Zorn is coach now. I don't say I would stay by him no matter what at this point. But now I do and it's not likely to change very fast.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I don't say I would stay by him no matter what at this point. But now I do and it's not likely to change very fast.

Aren't you contradicting yourself with those two sentences?

BTW, RS was the Gibbs disciple in my post, not you. I was agreeing with your posted response to him.

JSPB22 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I don't say I would stay by him no matter what at this point. But now I do and it's not likely to change very fast.

Aren't you contradicting yourself with those two sentences?

BTW, RS was the Gibbs disciple in my post, not you. I was agreeing with your posted response to him.

Ah. I've posted all along that I'm never going to want Gibbs to leave no matter what, so it worked for me too. Even though I didn't realize you meant it for Redeemed, I worked for me too. I didn't take it as an insult anyway.

On the contradiction, I don't see it. I am not saying I wouldn't change my view no matter what, but if I do it's probably going to take a while. I like Zorn, but he hasn't earned the blank check Gibbs did, I could change my mind eventually. Why is that a contradiction?

I just say probably on the long time to change my mind because I did change my mind on Marty quickly. I thought he was a horrible coach because he was such a control freak. My issue with Marty was that as a management consultant I thought he was a horrible manager. When you must control everything and you are very bright like Marty, you consistently do well but don't win it all because no one can do everything on their own. Gibbs is an excellent manager and all the criticism the game had passed him by was irrelevant because good managers use the people around them like he did. He was still a great coach, but he was older then the first time around and got a team that wasn't as good and it took longer. But still he made the playoffs 2/4 years and we were improving. He just wasn't willing for personal reasons to see it out.

I have confidence in Zorn he just needs a Qb.

Provided the three ring circu.... er, FO gives him the room to operate, I think he'll succeed.

I took the liberty of editing the reply that JSPB22 wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:I'm willing to admit my mistake and eat crow, should Jim Zorn turn this team around

Wow! and this coming from an acknowledged Gibbs disciple.

Just like Joe, I'm more than able to admit when I just can't go on.

If Zorn turns out to be another success from the Holmgren tree, then I will retract my statements on his ability to be a good coach.

That being said, with the current performance of the team, I rank him slightly above the OBC, and nipping at Marty's heels, in terms of coaching prowess (in the early going).

Here's to Zorn proving ME and the rest of the detractors wrong!!

Let me explain the two comments I made. The Gibbs disciple thing was in reference to Redeemed saying the team needed to be turned around from Joe's last season making the playoffs. I was incredulous as Kazoo was that this comment came from anyone, especially him.

The contradiction in Kazoo's sentences was him saying he doesn't say he would stand by Zorn no matter what, but then beginning the next sentence with "now I do". After reading your response I understand what you meant now. I thought it had been a typo on the first sentence where you meant to say "I didn't used to say... but Now I do."

Does that clear everything up?