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Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:46 am
by SKINFAN
HEROHAMO wrote:I like Mooch a whole lot more than Fassel.
The only thing is the West Coast offense is whole lot different from the offense of Saunders. Either way this team is pretty much going to learn a whole new offense and probably a new defense.
Mooch over Fassel any day.
I like williams a lot better than mooch.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:52 am
by RayNAustin
Nah, the defense will not change much. But the offense will.....hopefully anyways
I'm very OK with a west coast offense. It'll be good for Portis and Betts too, because it's much easier on them running from a spread.
As for Campbell, I think it's just what he needs to get going. He's going to have to speed up the reads though.....running a WC requires a little more from the QB in seeing what the defense is doing at the line and recognizing coverages. But he seemed to do much better when running the no hudlle offense this year, throwing a lot of short and intermediate passes, which really is WC.
And Moss and Randle El are good yac receivers, small, quick and elusive. Betts will likely become more active, which is a good thing. And

y....

y will catch 90 balls in that offense, and he is great with yac.
This may in fact save the Redskins, with Eli Manning showing he is turning the corner, and Romo lighting up the scoreboard. This is a passing NFL these days....Pats, Colts, packers, Cowboys,, Chargers.
It should be interesting.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:38 am
by DEHog
RayNAustin wrote:stacylee12 wrote:DEHog wrote:Do you think Mooch wants to work for another dysfuntional organization...this is what I mean when I talk about people not wanting to be here...there will come a point if Snyder continues his way that no amount of money will attrack the people we need.
Don't sell the Redskins so short. I think many people would consider it a great opportunity and honor to be the next HC for the Redskins.
I myself was quite upset to see GW not get the job and the loss of AS actually. My husband is a Bills fan and he thinks there is something I (we) don't know about GW and if DS passed him up, it may be for good reason.
I go on record that if DS comes up with the SM hire, I forgive him the past few weeks and will be very excited about next year.
You're absolutely right about the Redskins being a prime time place...there is just this cloud hanging over Snyder and Cerrato in not having the best reputation within the inner circles of the NFL.
Snyder really made some points with a lot of people in the way he dealt with ST's death, but then he turned right around and lost them all with the poor handling of GW....and it was handled poorly.
As for what led to GW not being hired, we may never know the entire story, but I'd be willing to bet that we already know a couple of them. IMHO, for one, you have to look at the Archuleta deal. This was quite possibly the worst free agent transaction in NFL history (certainly the worst for the Redskins). We not only let our SS (Ryan Clark) walk when we could have kept him for a song....we replace him with Archuleta (whom GW lobbied heavily for) and pay him the richest contract ever signed by an NFL safety. And the guy stunk the joint out...losing his starting job twice in one season, first to his backup, and then to his backup's backup. This will never be forgotten by the boys in the front office. Secondly, and before Archuleta, we let Antonio Pierce leave (GW thought we could plug Lamar Marshall in his place but he never did meet the challenge). A couple of other bad judgement calls regarding personnel in 2004 and 2005 led to the 2006 collapse of the Redskin defense which went from top 3 to the bottom in just 2 years.
I really think that under Gibbs, Cerrato simply went out and got the players that the coaches said they wanted, and let go those that they said they could manage without. And some very big mistakes were made, the biggest ones on GW's side......as for Saunders, the results were what doomed him.
Combine that, with GW's record as head coach in buffalo, and his strong personality that may not have blended well with Snyder's, and I don't think you need to look too much harder at it to see the disconnect there.
As for Mooch being the guy, I really think he is one of the bare few that could walk into this situation and quickly win over the players. Something that will be necessary if we are to maintain that team spirit that was built.
It makes so much sense in fact, that's why I'm afraid Snyder will hire Fassel instead.
They can't blame Williams for those moves...he the DC not the GM.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:11 am
by RayNAustin
Yes, that's true. But are you aware of how they worked? Cerrato kept a list of who is available. When they needed someone, he gave Gibbs the list. If it was a defensive player, he would consult with Williams about who he wanted. And then they'd go after that player. If it were an offensive player, he and Saunders would work it out.
Do you think that they would have forced Archuleta on Williams at 30 Mil? You think they would have let Antonio Pierce leave if Williams had said.."hey that's the QB of my defense, you got to find a way to retain him!" No. Williams thought that his system would work regardless of who they plugged in to what spot. That's why he was fine with letting Pierce go, Smoot go, Clark go, Harris go, Arrington go, etc. Then he realized in 2006 that they let too many people go, and the ones he plugged in didn't cut it. Williams was humbled in 2006.
Want to know why the defense played so much better in 2007? They finally got a MLB to fill Pierce's absence, and was rid of Archumamma, and got Smooty back. I mean we lost Taylor and the defense still played well. Archuleta was a gaping wound in that defense who was constantly exploited, not jsut in coverage, but in missed tackles too. Sean Taylor was constantly out of position and late getting over on deep routes because he was trying to play his position and strong safety too.
There is no mystery here as to what happened, looking back. The addition of Fletcher this year was huge. In the Tampa 2 that Williams runs, you have to have a MLB that can cover the middle of the field, and you have to have great safety play....if you don't, the whole thing falls apart, which is what happened. Marshall didn't have the coverage skills and Archuleta was getting beat like a redheaded step child. when Taylor would try to help, he wound up out of position and thats why he got beat deep so many times in 2006. Not because of his erros, but because he was trying to do too much.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:01 am
by SkinsJock
RayNAustin wrote:stacylee12 wrote:DEHog wrote:Do you think Mooch wants to work for another dysfuntional organization...this is what I mean when I talk about people not wanting to be here...there will come a point if Snyder continues his way that no amount of money will attrack the people we need.
Don't sell the Redskins so short. I think many people would consider it a great opportunity and honor to be the next HC for the Redskins.
I myself was quite upset to see GW not get the job and the loss of AS actually. My husband is a Bills fan and he thinks there is something I (we) don't know about GW and if DS passed him up, it may be for good reason.
I go on record that if DS comes up with the SM hire, I forgive him the past few weeks and will be very excited about next year.
You're absolutely right about the Redskins being a prime time place...there is just this cloud hanging over Snyder and Cerrato in not having the best reputation within the inner circles of the NFL.
Snyder really made some points with a lot of people in the way he dealt with ST's death, but then he turned right around and lost them all with the poor handling of GW....and it was handled poorly.
As for what led to GW not being hired, we may never know the entire story .... A couple of bad judgement calls regarding personnel in 2004 and 2005 led to the 2006 collapse of the Redskin defense which went from top 3 to the bottom in just 2 years.
I really think that under Gibbs, Cerrato simply went out and got the players that the coaches said they wanted, and let go those that they said they could manage without. And some very big mistakes were made, the biggest ones on GW's side......as for Saunders, the results were what doomed him.
As for Mooch being the guy, I really think he is one of the bare few that could walk into this situation and quickly win over the players. Something that will be necessary if we are to maintain that team spirit that was built.
It makes so much sense in fact, that's why I'm afraid Snyder will hire Fassel instead.
Some good posts here and coupled with SkinsFreak some great analysis on who and what we can expect to see here shortly.
I was watching NFL Network last night and came to the realization that Mariucci is going to be the next HC
It really is simple - why would we be waiting if it was Fassel - IF we put the OC and DC in place that reportedly the next HC has already "OK'd" then why wait - we are waiting because Mariucci is currently with NFL Network and there is no reason for him to leave just yet
As far as the young whiz kids that are currently available (or will be) I do not think that Snyder and Cerrato are going to bring in a young guy to continue the progress.
For those that keep thinking West Coast offense - please check out SkinsFreak's post. If Mariucci (and Zorn) are here and running anything it will be a variation on what we have already seen here PLUS it will utilize the players better - we were too predictable, this will change - to think that we are going to change everything offensively drastically is incorrect IMHO - this will be a more effective offense than we saw last year because it will utilize parts of last year's offense and what variations to that that Zorn and Mariucci will add

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:06 am
by crippler_p
^^ That is what I think too.
Mooch never said - I am not in the running.
Why would we wait for Fassel?
Mooch and Zorn are both Holmegren guys
Blanche and Brooks worked with/for Mooch in GB and Detroit.
Vinney loves Mooch. Given the power struggle in SF when Mooch left, I think he'll put his foot down with Managment., when he has to.
He also kept the 49ers competitve when they had cap problems.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 10:12 am
by SkinsJock
While I now realize what these 2 bozos were doing the past few weeks

I do not think they handled Williams well - I will admit that we do not and maybe wont ever know the full story - it just seems like they could have handled it better and especially the rumors and false information that the media were coming up with daily as this thing dragged on.
I hope Williams and Saunders go on to other teams and have great success - they are good for the NFL and helped us out - everyone makes mistakes and while Saunders did not really make any glaring ones, their time here is now over and we all can move on to greater glory.
Snyder indicated that it would be a thorough search - all he needed to do was nip some of the stupid stuff in the bud before all the guys who know nothing could make too much of anything. My 2 Cents
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:32 am
by DEHog
I hope you'll are right...I just don't think is smart football sense to hiring asst. coaches and "hope" that this coach takes tohe job. Who lknow maybe Snyder has already met with Mooch???
Why would we hire Fassel...he may be the only one who Snyder wants who wants the job.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 11:56 am
by SkinsJock
DEHog wrote:I hope y'all are right ... I just don't think it's smart football sense to hire asst. coaches and "hope" that this coach takes the job. Who knows, maybe Snyder has already met with Mooch???
Why would we hire Fassel, he may be the only one who Snyder wants who wants the job.
IF Snyder wants Fassel
IF Snyder has hired the guys that Fassel wants
IF Fassel wants the job
WHY is he not already in place?
I think that if you replace the name with Mariucci then the answer is he is waiting until after the Super Bowl.
I'm not sure this is a done deal by any stretch - both of these coaches look like the current set-up with the assistants would be a group they could manage - I personally hope it is Mariucci - I just think that Snyder (and Cerrato) would also prefer Mariucci because of the very anti reaction they heard and saw to the possibility of Fassel BUT I'm not sure Mariucci wants to come here on Snyder's terms and I think Fassel will.
I just think the delay until after the Super Bowl is all to wait and see if they can get Mariucci - if not, then I think we will see Fassel
It is possible (well I'm hoping) that they are working on a Plan B if Mooch is not going to take the job, but I doubt it
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:02 pm
by DEHog
IF Snyder wants Fassel
IF Snyder has hired the guys that Fassel wants
IF Fassel wants the job
WHY is he not already in place?
Because Snyder want someone else...if he can't get them than Fassel may be the fall back.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:13 pm
by spenser
Sgraham wrote:spenser wrote:I really wouldnt mind Mooch. Seems very bright, enthusiastic (spelling?) and a players coach. We could do a lot worse than mooch. But this also coming from a guy who isnt as down on fassel as most here.
You'd probably hate the it if Fossil got the job. If you did so me reserch you'd find out the Fossil has the better coaching record. You 'fans' are amazing.
What's amazing is your inability to spell or construct a tangible sentence. Is it possible that I judge a coach's potential not on Wins alone, but by demeanor, circumstances and opinion? Probably not, I mean I am just a "fan".

Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 3:37 pm
by Skin Diesel
The reason that Fassel has not yet been hired is simple. NO OTHER NFL TEAM IS INTERESTED IN HIM, not even for an assistant position. There is no grand scheme. Snyder can wait as long as he wants and Fassel will be available. This alone is reason enough to give pause when considering whether Fassel is the right man for the job. My guess is that Snyder would have hired him already but for the fact that virtually nobody has anything positive to say about him getting the job. On the other hand, there is no reason that Snyder couldn't hire Mariucci before the Super Bowl. To think that Snyder is waiting until after the Super Bowl to hire Mariucci is silly. He could easily interview Mariucci and announce the hiring now, if he knew that Mariucci were his main target. Mariucci can opt out of his NFL Network contract to take a coaching position at any time. Maybe they have spoken and Mariucci has said that he wants to finish his network stuff this week, but then again there is some rumor that he's lobbying for the job behind the scenes, and he has yet to say "I have not been contacted by the Redskins for the job." So who knows?
And by the way, everyone keeps saying that Mariucci is the guy because Cerrato "loves" Mariucci. Really? Where is the proof of this? JLC's conjecture in his blog? I have never seen Vinny quoted as saying that he loves Mariucci. As best I can tell, they spent one or two years together in San Francisco, until Vinny was canned.
All in all, I think the answer to our questions about this process is right in front of us. Tweedle Dee and Tweedle Dumb have no idea what they're doing. They simply can't decide what to do at this point, after totally botching this thing for nearly a month now. Maybe they'll be the proverbial blind hogs that root up a golden acorn. I hope they hire Mariucci (I don't know why, I just think he will be able to handle himself well in the bizarro world that is Danny's team structure), but it's anyone's guess right now.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 4:41 pm
by SkinsJock
some good points SD - and as far as anything that JLC thinks or says in one of these blogs I hope never to read - I would agree that the opposite is a more likely choice - talk about useless, even more so than tits on a bull
This "thorough" process is so embarrassing - Can you imagine, the glory of a perfect season, Art Monk finally in the HOF and Snyder announces his new toy coach.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:03 pm
by crippler_p
DEHog wrote:IF Snyder wants Fassel
IF Snyder has hired the guys that Fassel wants
IF Fassel wants the job
WHY is he not already in place?
Because Snyder want someone else...if he can't get them than Fassel may be the fall back.
Its like Fassel is snyders saftey school.
He cant get into Harvard
He is waiting to hear back from a good state school.
He has applications out to a few libreal arts colleges, but doent know if he wants to go there.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:12 pm
by Bob 0119
Did I miss somethng here?
Many people are talking about how poorly GW was treated, or how horrible the Redskins dealt with him. (I didn't include any specific quotes, because I didn't want anyone to think I was singling them out)
The man got four interviews...and wasn't hired.
How should they have treated him? Just keep him hanging around until they finally hire someone else so that all the coaching positions are filled?
I don't recall him or Al getting any looks or offers until after they were fired. Most likely because they were under contract, and the only position another team could have offered them was HC. As soon as they were "fired" Teams like St. Louis could certainly talk to them about coordinator positions.
Sounds like they were as fair as they could be to me. They didn't BS him; as soon as they knew he wasn't their guy...they let him go in a manner free of any possible restrictions.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:18 pm
by jazzskins
I've watched some of the video's where Mooch is questioned, and I'm here to declare that he won't get hired by Dan. I'll happily eat crow if I'm wrong. I'd like to give them the benefit of the the doubt that they have some grand scheme in place that will bring a real quality coach in that we can get excited about....I'd like to believe that. But I don't.
Chad
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:20 pm
by DEHog
The man got four interviews...and wasn't hired.
And then waited almost two weeks without so much as a phone call??
Only then to hear that he disrespected Joe Gibbs???
As I said elsewhere Synder had so much more to gain by giving GW the job...no he's walking the tightrope without a net.
MOOCH INTERVIEWING WITH 'SKINS
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:36 pm
by por-tiz2skins
ABC 7 in Washington reports that Redskins owner Dan Snyder and Executive V.P. of Football Operations Vinny Cerrato are interviewing former Niners and Lions coach Steve Mariucci for the head-coaching gig in D.C.
Adam Schefter of NFL Network confirmed for ABC 7 that Mariucci, his NFLN colleague, is sitting for the job.
Talk of Mooch to the Redskins heated up earlier this week, when Jason La Canfora looked at the evidence suggesting that the 'Skins could be getting ready for Mariucci to take over.
The ultimate requirement for coaching job is an ability to get along with Cerrato, and the status of their relationship is unclear. As a league source told us recently, Cerrato didn't hire Mooch in San Fran.
Yeaaaaa I hope so.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:49 pm
by ike075
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:50 pm
by RayNAustin
Let's face it, we don't know what is going to happen. Mooch seems to be the best choice overall. Spagnoulo may be interesting to Snyder, and that may be why he's waiting. But with Blache taking over the defense, we really need an offensive coach as the head guy to oversee Zorn who doesn't have a lot of OC experience.
If Fassel was THE GUY, he'd already have been hired. remember how we all speculated that GW was obviously the guy because of all of the interviews?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 6:57 pm
by Redskin in Canada
DEHog wrote:IF Snyder wants Fassel
IF Snyder has hired the guys that Fassel wants
IF Fassel wants the job
WHY is he not already in place?
Because Snyder want someone else...if he can't get them than Fassel may be the fall back.
BECAUSE he is a public relations FREAK and he wants attention and media coverage on him and his business.
They say that media coverage is good even if it is bad media covearege. He LOVES the attention previous to the Super Bowl. He is getting it and we are giving it to him.

DID U JUST SEE THAT!!??!!?? NFLN
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:36 pm
by KennyKenn21
Brett Farve asking mooch..........mooch looked all gushy and shy ....

......... he's our next coach! Right on! Now go out and get # 85!!!
Re: DID U JUST SEE THAT!!??!!?? NFLN
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:44 pm
by skinsfan#33
KennyKenn21 wrote:Now go out and get # 85!!!
which #85?
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:44 pm
by Bob 0119
DEHog wrote:The man got four interviews...and wasn't hired.
And then waited almost two weeks without so much as a phone call??
Only then to hear that he disrespected Joe Gibbs???
As I said elsewhere Synder had so much more to gain by giving GW the job...no he's walking the tightrope without a net.
Hear he disrespected Joe Gibbs from whom? If I recall correctly it was a reporter that asked him about it, and he seemed shocked by it. This would tend to indicate that he and Snyder never discussed it.
However, if I also recall correctly, this reporter was asking the question based on "an unnamed source, close to the Redskins". Who? The Janitor? The towel boy? There is no accountability of the source of this "rumor", so we just naturally agree that is must be true? Unnamed sources never lie? How do we even know this "unnamed source" is even a real person? Is this the same "unnamed source" that told us about the Jim Fassel press conference that never happened?
Irregardless, all of this happened AFTER he was already fired.
So they (Redskins management) weighed their options on him, and gave him serious consideration before deciding to go in a different direction. If he had gotten a token interview and was fired immediately afterwards, then I would say "well obviously they didn't even give him a chance" but the interviewed him FOUR TIMES in 17 days.
While he was in the running for the HC position with us...I heard no talk of any other teams making him an offer. No interviews, no requests to interview...nada.
We still don't have OUR HC, so we could just as easily still had GW on the payroll until we do announce it...and then fire him, after all the positions were filled so we wouldn't have to face him this year with another team. We didn't do that.
Firing GW the moment we knew we weren't going to hire him was the BEST thing we could have done for him...not the worst.
Posted: Wed Jan 30, 2008 8:50 pm
by Skinsfan55
Man, I don't know how I feel about Mooch.
I mean, Steve Mariucci was effective in San Fran, but was not very good in Detroit. In San Fran he had a great General Manager with excellent personnel on the field.
I suppose you could make the argument that he helped build the careers of Jeff Garcia, T.O., J.J. Stokes and others... but after seeing him flop in Detroit it's hard to throw all your faith in him (though, you could blame that on Matt Millen drafting busts like Charles Rogers, Joey Harrington and others.)