The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Redskin in Canada wrote:

por-tiz2skins wrote:Cause of the way he looks?.

I am curious. How does he look?

LOSTHOG wrote:It is impossible to win in Detroit. Their front office is even worse than ours

I disagree with one caveat:

If you take away the four years that Joe Gibbs was with us, our Front Office record is quite comparable to theirs.

Lets compare:

Skins>
1999 10-6 (one playoff win {over Detroit})
2000 8-8
2001 8-8
2002 7-5
2003 5-11

Lions>
1999 8-8 (playoff loss to the Skins)
2000 9-7
2001 2-14
2002 3-13
2003 5-11

Neither one is much to brag about, but the Lions were clearly worse!

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:

por-tiz2skins wrote:Cause of the way he looks?.

I am curious. How does he look?

LOSTHOG wrote:It is impossible to win in Detroit. Their front office is even worse than ours

I disagree with one caveat:

If you take away the four years that Joe Gibbs was with us, our Front Office record is quite comparable to theirs.

Lets compare:

Skins>
1999 10-6 (one playoff win {over Detroit})
2000 8-8
2001 8-8
2002 7-5
2003 5-11

Lions>
1999 8-8 (playoff loss to the Skins)
2000 9-7
2001 2-14
2002 3-13
2003 5-11

Neither one is much to brag about, but the Lions were clearly worse!

The only reasons the Skins made it into the playoffs in 1999 was because of the team Charlie Casserly constructed. The next year Snyder dismantled Casserly's team and sucked!

That playoff apperances cannot be attributed to Snyder.

Bishop Hammer wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:

por-tiz2skins wrote:Cause of the way he looks?.

I am curious. How does he look?

LOSTHOG wrote:It is impossible to win in Detroit. Their front office is even worse than ours

I disagree with one caveat:

If you take away the four years that Joe Gibbs was with us, our Front Office record is quite comparable to theirs.

Lets compare:

Skins>
1999 10-6 (one playoff win {over Detroit})
2000 8-8
2001 8-8
2002 7-5
2003 5-11

Lions>
1999 8-8 (playoff loss to the Skins)
2000 9-7
2001 2-14
2002 3-13
2003 5-11

Neither one is much to brag about, but the Lions were clearly worse!

The only reasons the Skins made it into the playoffs in 1999 was because of the team Charlie Casserly constructed. The next year Snyder dismantled Casserly's team and sucked!

That playoff apperances cannot be attributed to Snyder.

While I'll agree with most of what you said, Casserly was gone before the 1999 started. From the time Gibbs retired the first time until the time

Casserly was let go:
- they won zero playoff games
- had a 36-59-1 record (37.5 win %)
- 2 winning seasons out of 6 (one of those two was a 8-7-1)

So while you are right in a sense, the plain simple fact is the team never won a Playoff game while Casserly was our GM and Gibbs wasn't the coach.

By the way the Skins are 68-76 (47.2 win %) since Charlie was canned.

If you take out Gibbs' 30-34 they were 38-42 ( or 47.5 win %)

So pine for Casserly all you want, the simple fact is this team has won more when Synder was on his own than when Casserly was.

People forget we were very ready to see Casserly go when he did.

por-tiz2skins wrote:Every one on Extream skins say that want this guy raither than Fassel.But I mean this guy did bad with detroit for 3 years while Fassel had one bad year.


Tell me what makes this guy any better?.Cause of the way he looks?.

Ok. Look at the Detroit franchise. And how many coaches have taken them to the playoffs the last 15-20 years. The Lions are a disgrace to the NFL. When Mooch coached the 49ers I just watched about all the 49ers games because I live in the bay area and I know the situation really well hear but the 49ers situation is not because of Mooch in fact the 49ers have not made the playoffs since they fired Mooch. I will be the first to admit here that back then when Mooch got fired I thought it was him that was the problem with the 49ers, however I was wrong it was John Dork thats the problem. I would like Mooch over anyone of these other candiates left and all the coaches on the staff that we have now to point to Mooch. Mooch, and Gibbs are very similar on how they do things and the great thing is Mooch is a great family man, and he LOVES his players.

jeremyroyce wrote:

por-tiz2skins wrote:Every one on Extream skins say that want this guy raither than Fassel.But I mean this guy did bad with detroit for 3 years while Fassel had one bad year.


Tell me what makes this guy any better?.Cause of the way he looks?.

Ok. Look at the Detroit franchise. And how many coaches have taken them to the playoffs the last 15-20 years. The Lions are a disgrace to the NFL. When Mooch coached the 49ers I just watched about all the 49ers games because I live in the bay area and I know the situation really well hear but the 49ers situation is not because of Mooch in fact the 49ers have not made the playoffs since they fired Mooch. I will be the first to admit here that back then when Mooch got fired I thought it was him that

was the problem with the 49ers, however I was wrong it was John Dork thats the problem. I would like Mooch over anyone of these other candiates left and all the coaches on the staff that we have now to point to Mooch. Mooch, and Gibbs are very similar on how they do things and the great thing is Mooch is a great family man, and he LOVES his players.

I just can't come to grips w/the thought of the Skins playing a West Coast offense.

That said! i would rather have Mooch than Fassel or McDaniels. I have a gut feeling Spagnoli(sp?) will be a good H/C.

Why couldn't we have just hired GW and then fired him when Cower was ready to coach again?

skinsfan#33 wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

por-tiz2skins wrote:Every one on Extream skins say that want this guy raither than Fassel.But I mean this guy did bad with detroit for 3 years while Fassel had one bad year.


Tell me what makes this guy any better?.Cause of the way he looks?.

Ok. Look at the Detroit franchise. And how many coaches have taken them to the playoffs the last 15-20 years. The Lions are a disgrace to the NFL. When Mooch coached the 49ers I just watched about all the 49ers games because I live in the bay area and I know the situation really well hear but the 49ers situation is not because of Mooch in fact the 49ers have not made the playoffs since they fired Mooch. I will be the first to admit here that back then when Mooch got fired I thought it was him that

was the problem with the 49ers, however I was wrong it was John Dork thats the problem. I would like Mooch over anyone of these other candiates left and all the coaches on the staff that we have now to point to Mooch. Mooch, and Gibbs are very similar on how they do things and the great thing is Mooch is a great family man, and he LOVES his players.

I just can't come to grips w/the thought of the Skins playing a West Coast offense.

That said! i would rather have Mooch than Fassel or McDaniels. I have a gut feeling Spagnoli(sp?) will be a good H/C.

Why couldn't we have just hired GW and then fired him when Cower was ready to coach again?

Why would you want a lame duck coach. With Joe Gibbs retiring, and with Snyder not feeling it with GW why not just take care of the situation now then later. Also, something must have happened between Synder and Williams, or Snyder knows something about Williams that has not been made public that might have been the reason he got fired

jeremyroyce wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

jeremyroyce wrote:

por-tiz2skins wrote:Every one on Extream skins say that want this guy raither than Fassel.But I mean this guy did bad with detroit for 3 years while Fassel had one bad year.


Tell me what makes this guy any better?.Cause of the way he looks?.

Ok. Look at the Detroit franchise. And how many coaches have taken them to the playoffs the last 15-20 years. The Lions are a disgrace to the NFL. When Mooch coached the 49ers I just watched about all the 49ers games because I live in the bay area and I know the situation really well hear but the 49ers situation is not because of Mooch in fact the 49ers have not made the playoffs since they fired Mooch. I will be the first to admit here that back then when Mooch got fired I thought it was him that

was the problem with the 49ers, however I was wrong it was John Dork thats the problem. I would like Mooch over anyone of these other candiates left and all the coaches on the staff that we have now to point to Mooch. Mooch, and Gibbs are very similar on how they do things and the great thing is Mooch is a great family man, and he LOVES his players.

I just can't come to grips w/the thought of the Skins playing a West Coast offense.

That said! i would rather have Mooch than Fassel or McDaniels. I have a gut feeling Spagnoli(sp?) will be a good H/C.

Why couldn't we have just hired GW and then fired him when Cower was ready to coach again?

Why would you want a lame duck coach. With Joe Gibbs retiring, and with Snyder not feeling it with GW why not just take care of the situation now then later. Also, something must have happened between Synder and Williams, or Snyder knows something about Williams that has not been made public that might have been the reason he got fired

I just figure, it gives him a chance and DS wouldn't hesitate to fire him to get Cower. Maybe he will shock me and the next HC will actually succeed. But I'm getting the feeling that we will have close to double digit losses next year!

Well, I'm glad that you feel that way because I don't and I am excited about the 08 season already. Who is to say that with Gibbs we wouldn't have gone 4-12 in 08? We as fans need to sit back and relax alittle and let all this unfold. Right now we don't know whats going to happen or who is going to coach the Redskins.

I just thought I'd throw this in there but why the hell would you care to hire Fassell or the Giants cordinator just because they have "NFC" east experience? Does that really amount to anything? I mean maybe they have a little insight to Andy Reid because they were coaching at the same time, but seriously is Fassell going to have a heads up on Coughlin or Phillips? And don't give me this crap about he knows how to play in the colder months because we run the ball here and all that crap. I really honestly don't think it matters because the eagles have been running a west coast offense forever and hell Green bay does too and its a hell of alot colder there. Regardless, I just want this coach search to be over. Also Steve is the first candidate since Greg Williams that has made me the least bit happy so I hope it goes to him. And one last thing, I know it sucks right now from an ownership standpoint it really does, but seriously if you have season tickets and your "done" with the skins, maybe you are not really that big of a fan anyway.

I would be really surprised to see a "West Coast" style offense in place here this season - we will be running an offense that will continue to score even when we are up 14 points on the giants at the half
We will be running whatever variation of whatever "system" works with these players and not an offense that is based on a system that does not suit the players we have.
That is primarily why Saunders did not look like being a part of our plans here from the moment Gibbs left. I think that Saunders may not be entirely at fault BUT the fact is what we saw at the end with Collins should have been happening all season long - that is on the OC and I'm sure is part of the reason he is not here anymore!

This team did not do badly defensively or with special teams this year but our offense should have been a lot better. I know we had some horrific problems with health issues but what happened in the last 4 games means we were not doing things right in the first 12.

With the group of players we have and the division we play in - I just do not see a West Coast type offense, no matter who they bring in to be the HC or what type of offense Zorn is reputed to be familiar with - Zorn will have an offense that attacks the defense, because that is what he did and that is why Holmgren took advice from him.

Why would you want a lame duck coach. With Joe Gibbs retiring, and with Snyder not feeling it with GW why not just take care of the situation now then later. Also, something must have happened between Synder and Williams, or Snyder knows something about Williams that has not been made public that might have been the reason he got fired

Or Snyder was livid when GW made it public in 05 that Snyder promised him the job after Gibbs left and the last two weeks a have been more about how NOT to give GW the job than about giving it to him...

DEHog wrote:

Why would you want a lame duck coach. With Joe Gibbs retiring, and with Snyder not feeling it with GW why not just take care of the situation now then later. Also, something must have happened between Synder and Williams, or Snyder knows something about Williams that has not been made public that might have been the reason he got fired

Or Snyder was livid when GW made it public in 05 that Snyder promised him the job after Gibbs left and the last two weeks a have been more about how NOT to give GW the job than about giving it to him...

I think a little of both - I think that Snyder tried to get Williams but was not going to give Williams the control that Williams wanted - I'm not sure that the problem was all Snyder - I have a feeling that Cerrato did not want Williams to have control over the players - especially as he was just given the title and wanted to make sure that Williams was not going to take any of that away from him what a dipstick that guy is?

With everything they have invested in Campbell, I can't see them hiring a defensive minded coach.

DEHog wrote:

Why would you want a lame duck coach. With Joe Gibbs retiring, and with Snyder not feeling it with GW why not just take care of the situation now then later. Also, something must have happened between Synder and Williams, or Snyder knows something about Williams that has not been made public that might have been the reason he got fired

Or Snyder was livid when GW made it public in 05 that Snyder promised him the job after Gibbs left and the last two weeks a have been more about how NOT to give GW the job than about giving it to him...

Can you provide a link that Dan Snyder guarantees the HC job to GW?

Same thing here: I just can´t fathom a "West coast" offense in DC.

Can you imagine the massive roster overhaul we can expect if Mooch tries to install his system?

Heck, I´m not even sure if JC would be our QB.

I wouldn't mind having Mooch come to town, he grew up an hour away from here in Iron Mountain with Tom Izzo (Michigan State head basketball coach) and is kind of like a hometown hero for Upper Michigan

floridaskinsfan wrote:I personally like SM. I think he would be great in DC. He is a good coach with a good track record (if you do not include Detroit-they bring everyone down). He seems to relate to players and can still coach. He has fire and a lot of common sense. At this point we could still end up with Phil Jackson as a head coach so I will wait for another week to see what happens.

Given DS track record, we could wind up with Michael Jackson.

jeremyroyce wrote:

DEHog wrote:

Why would you want a lame duck coach. With Joe Gibbs retiring, and with Snyder not feeling it with GW why not just take care of the situation now then later. Also, something must have happened between Synder and Williams, or Snyder knows something about Williams that has not been made public that might have been the reason he got fired

Or Snyder was livid when GW made it public in 05 that Snyder promised him the job after Gibbs left and the last two weeks a have been more about how NOT to give GW the job than about giving it to him...

Can you provide a link that Dan Snyder guarantees the HC job to GW?

Yes but it would just say according to...

I'm not going to give up how I know....I'm just saying I beleive what was said to me.

Adam Schefter of NFL Network said that it wouldn't surprise him to see Mooch get hired by the 'Skins. He talked to Mooch about it but he had no comment.

i'd rather see mooch in redskins gear than fassel...but that being said, i just don't see why anyone that's proven would want to be the head coach of a football team that won't allow him to hire his own coordinators.

you simply don't hire you're DC and OC before you're head coach unless you want to pull a jerry jones and hire a headcoach you can manipulate.

i don't see mariuci as one of those guys. it's why GW isn't a candidate and it's why Pete Carrol isn't a candidate. they wanted snyder to have less of a role than he was willing to let go of. i have no proof of that obviously, but it makes sense in my head

Jeremy81 wrote:i'd rather see mooch in redskins gear than fassel...but that being said, i just don't see why anyone that's proven would want to be the head coach of a football team that won't allow him to hire his own coordinators.

you simply don't hire you're DC and OC before you're head coach unless you want to pull a jerry jones and hire a headcoach you can manipulate.

i don't see mariuci as one of those guys. it's why GW isn't a candidate and it's why Pete Carrol isn't a candidate. they wanted snyder to have less of a role than he was willing to let go of. i have no proof of that obviously, but it makes sense in my head

Here is the thing - Zorn and Mooch get along. Both worked for Mik H. So that is not an issue

Mooch wanted Blanche in Detroit. He also worked with him in GB. So that is not an issue

Brooks had an interview yesterday. He was on Mooch's staff also. So that is not an issue.

The WC offense would not be a problem. Skins just need to get a posession reciever. ey and Portis have great hands. With Zorn in house, the WC offense is comming.

I think Mariucci might be good here but the reality for whoever is coming in is that they will have to agree that Snyder and Cerrato are in charge of everything - not a lot of guys who are already established HC guys will put up with that especially given their track record before Gibbs.

Fassel might and a young, up and coming guy might want the opportunity, if you can call it that.
I wonder how bad Mooch wants to get back into it and if he wants to try and make anything happen here given the restraints of working with these 2

Delivery guy told me that Mooch doesn't mind airing the ball out some and isn't Zorn a throw it down the field kind of guy? I like Mooch, he did a good job out San Fran and got a bum deal in Detroit. Not to mention he did coach the crybaby T.O. so I guess he has tuff skin. Garcia said before Mooch was a player's coach.. I think our team can deal with that right?

Garcia said before Mooch was a player's coach.. I think our team can deal with that right?

I would rather have a players coach then one that lost his locker room a few times like Fassel did in New York.

Sir_Monk wrote:

Garcia said before Mooch was a player's coach.. I think our team can deal with that right?

I would rather have a players coach then one that lost his locker room a few times like Fassel did in New York.

Agree. Fassels NYG teams had a strong D. I credit John Fox for that. Not Fassel.