The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gibbs4Life wrote:I think I've made the case for why it makes sense what Snyder is doing, he needs the league to see just what Clayton wrote today he needs them to see a strong interview process so when he announces, they have no recourse. And also because he (Snyder) knows in his heart that he already knows who he wants and has for two years ever since he Gregg signed an extension, Gregg did so with the promise that when the time came for Gibbs to step down he would assume the position, with that Gregg made a committment to the Redskins, he turned down other possible Head Coaching opportunities in I think St Louis, KC, and Houston
and the Redskins made a committment to Gregg in $$$ and title.
Also consider how unprecedented it is to name two new coordinators if in fact you are "undecided" who your HC will be, its ludacris and insane, the only plausible explination is the one I've given in my two previous posts. To fire Williams is one thing, but to immediately name Blache DC is telling, fishy, and says to me the plan is in motion...
#1 Present a fair extensive process
#2 Assemble coaching staff at the behest of Williams
#3 After SB you give the man you've wanted all along the reins to the
Redskins.

I don't know man. I've read your many posts about this theory, and its a neat idea and all. (And I would be happy if its true.) But why exactly do you think Snyder has to go through this elaborate ruse?

The Rooney Rule doesn't require teams to do anything more than interview a minority candidate. Teams do it every year, and they don't have to go through some crazy month long charade to fool everybody into thinking they're serious about it.

At this point, going back and hiring GW would actually be a great splash for Snyder. So I hope it happens.

I'm a lot more interested in Ron Meeks than Fassel too.

HardDawg wrote:Am I the only one that thinks we are totally screwed?

There are many here that fear the same thing. I just hope most of us are wrong and some kind of miracle happens.

[quote="Gibbs4Life"][quote]Gibbshater4life,[/quote]

I Don't Hate Gibbs, just thought he again quit pre-maturely. In fact I just watched his broadcast from Joe Gibbs Racing on JoeGibbsOnline who has me on the mailing list, they've also sent me a Bible and a Gibbs spiritual gameplan, I've made plans to buy a Joe Gibbs Silverado soon as I have an extra 30grand. Ive watched every Joe Gibbs interview on Redskins.com TV since his first press conference back, I take to heart everything that man says because I respect his story his legacy and his heart. I do think that family was not the only reason he left the Skins though.

When I posted about Gibbs being a quitter I was mad at him the way your mad at someone you love and maybe its a relationship you were in where the other person decides to break it off and you really don't want to but you have no choice so you get mad at them and call them names. Then a bunch of whiners we're crying "boo hoo you're being critical of Gibbs why should you get to be Gibbs4Life" because deep down they're jealous of my handle, cause its the coolest [/quote]



Those of us who have criticized you are just saying, that if you truly were that big of a Gibbs fan, you would know what kind of man he is. I do apologize for calling you a hater. That was wrong. He is not a quitter. He is not one to turn his back on something. He is a man who knows that life is bigger than football. Much bigger. Football is a game. It is not, and should not be #1 in anyone's life. God, family, and football. Those are Gibbs's priorities. With his grandson's illness, he knew that he may not be able to give the Skins 100%. He did not think it fair to the organization, players, or the fans to not give 100%. His family needed him. That is why he left. I have followed Gibbs for a long time too. I am not a nascar fan, but I do root for the guys that race for Gibbs, because of Gibbs. I used to root for B. Labonte. He is no longer there, so I don't root for him. Gibbs is the only reason I root for T. Stewart. I dreamed of the day that Snyder would get Gibbs back. When it happened, I cannot explain the joy I felt. He is an awesome Christian man. He left because his priorities required him to. I just feel that a true fan would know that.

When I posted about Gibbs being a quitter I was mad at him

Yeah... sooooo, basically, you had a temper tantrum, like any other 3 year old might have.

riggofan wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:I think I've made the case for why it makes sense what Snyder is doing, he needs the league to see just what Clayton wrote today he needs them to see a strong interview process so when he announces, they have no recourse. And also because he (Snyder) knows in his heart that he already knows who he wants and has for two years ever since he Gregg signed an extension, Gregg did so with the promise that when the time came for Gibbs to step down he would assume the position, with that Gregg made a committment to the Redskins, he turned down other possible Head Coaching opportunities in I think St Louis, KC, and Houston
and the Redskins made a committment to Gregg in $$$ and title.
Also consider how unprecedented it is to name two new coordinators if in fact you are "undecided" who your HC will be, its ludacris and insane, the only plausible explination is the one I've given in my two previous posts. To fire Williams is one thing, but to immediately name Blache DC is telling, fishy, and says to me the plan is in motion...
#1 Present a fair extensive process
#2 Assemble coaching staff at the behest of Williams
#3 After SB you give the man you've wanted all along the reins to the
Redskins.

I don't know man. I've read your many posts about this theory, and its a neat idea and all. (And I would be happy if its true.) But why exactly do you think Snyder has to go through this elaborate ruse?

The Rooney Rule doesn't require teams to do anything more than interview a minority candidate. Teams do it every year, and they don't have to go through some crazy month long charade to fool everybody into thinking they're serious about it.

At this point, going back and hiring GW would actually be a great splash for Snyder. So I hope it happens.

I'm a lot more interested in Ron Meeks than Fassel too.

I totally agree. He's not going to go through a month long circus just to make the media eat crow, nor to quiet those that call him racist (not sure I even know what you're talking about here).

Meeks would be an interesting hire...runs the tampa two which is different then the D that Blache ran in Chicago. Not sure this would make any sense because Blache is definately qualified to be a DC. I think we need to look on the offensive side of the ball for HC. I think we need to pursue Jim Caldwell. This guy would be a great pick-up, as well as Josh McDaniels

CanesSkins26 wrote:The main reason why it would matter here is that Zorn has never called his own plays in the NFL.

Yo do realize Zorn called plays in the NFL for 11 years, at the line of scrimmage, right?. Yes, he's never called plays as OC, but, several sports writers from the Seattle Post said, over the past few years, Zorn was a major player and contributor in the play design and scheme for Holgrem in meetings. Holgrem called plays many plays specifically designed by Zorn. Having been a former QB in the league, reading defenses and calling plays at the line for 11 years, is some beneficial experience.

Zorn was highly regarded in Seattle. He was going to be the OC there after Holgrem and both of those guys from the Post said a lot of fans wanted him as the head coach. But outside of Seattle, he is also highly regarded by many coaches from around the league. We've even heard recently that Williams, Fassel and Meeks wanted him. So there has to be a reason for this. Again, I agree he's never called play as an OC, but he's got some highly touted experience and knowledge.

Gibbs4Life wrote:I think I've made the case for why it makes sense what Snyder is doing, he needs the league to see just what Clayton wrote today he needs them to see a strong interview process so when he announces, they have no recourse. And also because he (Snyder) knows in his heart that he already knows who he wants and has for two years ever since he Gregg signed an extension, Gregg did so with the promise that when the time came for Gibbs to step down he would assume the position, with that Gregg made a committment to the Redskins, he turned down other possible Head Coaching opportunities in I think St Louis, KC, and Houston
and the Redskins made a committment to Gregg in $$$ and title.
Also consider how unprecedented it is to name two new coordinators if in fact you are "undecided" who your HC will be, its ludacris and insane, the only plausible explination is the one I've given in my two previous posts. To fire Williams is one thing, but to immediately name Blache DC is telling, fishy, and says to me the plan is in motion...
#1 Present a fair extensive process
#2 Assemble coaching staff at the behest of Williams
#3 After SB you give the man you've wanted all along the reins to the
Redskins.

I don't know, dude. After all this and what's been said, I highly doubt that. Plausible? Maybe, but I just don't see that happening.

If that did happen, it could also have the appearance that after all that's happened, nobody wanted the job because of the chaos caused by Snyder and so Dan and Vinny ended up having to settle for Williams. That's what the media would say.

Not to mention Williams is interviewing with Jax right now. Sorry, I just don't think this is going down.

Gibbs4Life wrote:When I posted about Gibbs being a quitter I was mad at him the way your mad at someone you love and maybe its a relationship you were in where the other person decides to break it off and you really don't want to but you have no choice so you get mad at them and call them names.

DUMPED feelings?

It sounds familiar to Dan Snyder. He felt the same way and that is why he named Vinny his VP of FO and he fired GW.

In your case, it does not matter. You have recoverd. In his case, it will be too late. The team will not recover that soon.

Yo do realize Zorn called plays in the NFL for 11 years, at the line of scrimmage, right?. Yes, he's never called plays as OC, but, several sports writers from the Seattle Post said, over the past few years, Zorn was a major player and contributor in the play design and scheme for Holgrem in meetings. Holgrem called plays many plays specifically designed by Zorn. Having been a former QB in the league, reading defenses and calling plays at the line for 11 years, is some beneficial experience.

Zorn was highly regarded in Seattle. He was going to be the OC there after Holgrem and both of those guys from the Post said a lot of fans wanted him as the head coach. But outside of Seattle, he is also highly regarded by many coaches from around the league. We've even heard recently that Williams, Fassel and Meeks wanted him. So there has to be a reason for this. Again, I agree he's never called play as an OC, but he's got some highly touted experience and knowledge.

Sorry, but calling some plays as a qb and contributing to the game plan is a lot different than being in charge of designing an offense, implementing it, and calling it on game day. And the fact is that Zorn has no experience as an offensive coordinator in the NFL. As for his career as a qb, the guy was mediocre at best. Maybe he was surrounded by subpar players but his career numbers are nothing to brag about. He could do a good job as the OC, I would just feel more comfortable if our head coach is offensive minded and has some experience calling plays.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Yo do realize Zorn called plays in the NFL for 11 years, at the line of scrimmage, right?. Yes, he's never called plays as OC, but, several sports writers from the Seattle Post said, over the past few years, Zorn was a major player and contributor in the play design and scheme for Holgrem in meetings. Holgrem called plays many plays specifically designed by Zorn. Having been a former QB in the league, reading defenses and calling plays at the line for 11 years, is some beneficial experience.

Zorn was highly regarded in Seattle. He was going to be the OC there after Holgrem and both of those guys from the Post said a lot of fans wanted him as the head coach. But outside of Seattle, he is also highly regarded by many coaches from around the league. We've even heard recently that Williams, Fassel and Meeks wanted him. So there has to be a reason for this. Again, I agree he's never called play as an OC, but he's got some highly touted experience and knowledge.

Sorry, but calling some plays as a qb and contributing to the game plan is a lot different than being in charge of designing an offense, implementing it, and calling it on game day. And the fact is that Zorn has no experience as an offensive coordinator in the NFL. As for his career as a qb, the guy was mediocre at best. Maybe he was surrounded by subpar players but his career numbers are nothing to brag about. He could do a good job as the OC, I would just feel more comfortable if our head coach is offensive minded and has some experience calling plays.

Calling plays as an active QB IS implementing it. I could name more than a dozen current offensive coordinators that never called plays in the NFL before their current OC gig. Like Jason Garrett for example... they won the NFC East, went to the playoffs his first year as a coordinator and finished the year with the leagues 5th ranked team in total offense, IN HIS FIRST YEAR.

So, contrary to YOUR opinion, many who are actually employed in this profession around the league, and I'm not just talking about Dan and Vinny, have a much different opinion of Zorn. He did in fact play for and with a subpar team, but he is one of only eight players inducted to the Seahawks Ring Of Honor. And he did orchestrate games plans and called plays as the OC at Utah State, so he does in fact have some experience.

Calling plays as an active QB IS implementing it

By implementing I was referring to teaching it to the entire offense.

As for comparing him to Garrett, Garrett was so highly thought of as a coach that he was hired as Dallas' offensive coordinator after just 2 seasons as Miami's qb coach. Zorn has been in the NFL for 10 seasons and is only now, at the age of 54, getting a chance to be an offensive coordinator. Garrett is also the highest paid assistant in the history of the NFL and was even offered a head coaching gig this offseason.

Again, I'm not saying that he wont do a good job. I'm just saying that with his lack of experience, an offensive minded head coach would probably make the transition easier.

Regarding Zorn - I think that the reason he was brought in is because of what the people in the NFL (NOT the media) were saying about his abilities offensively and how much Holmgren valued his input. I think we may have found a guy who is going to be very motivated to prove his worth here.

Regarding Garrett - his worth is only determineed by what he achieves NOT by what he makes - he is over-rated in my opinion and that situation in pukesville is going to get very awkward for Phillips who did a great job in getting his team to be the top ranked NFC team and now has to watch his back - got to love it

In my opinion the head coach can be offensive or defensively oriented - his managing a team is based on co-ordinating the efforts of both the coaches and players - a good HC has to be able to manage all facets of his team, a great HC gets great results from all the people that he gives the opportunities to.

Unfortunately when you have these 2 running things - the HC position really means very little - they will not let you into the kitchen let alone buy the groceries for whatever you might want to prepare to put on the field.

you know....mooch would make perfect sense here. Zorn and him are under the mike holgren coaching tree. Mooch can help zorn adjustI think he selected the coaching staff but is just waiting till after his contract expires with the NFL network to be a professional about it.

to being a first time offensive coordinator.


I really wouldve prefered Greg williams but this is certainly better than fassel.

this would explain the madness behind seemingly hiring the staff before the HC.


Meeks interview is kind of odd though...why keep looking?

ComebackSkins wrote:Snyder is destroying all that Joe Gibbs helped to establish here, and it makes me sick.


Having said that, it looks like to me that many members of the defensive staff are staying put, and Greg Blache is very well regarded by many , including Williams himself. So maybe our future does not seem that bleak in that regard. He used to call plays for the browns, so I think (hope) he will be fine.

On the other hand, Jim zorn has not called plays in the NFL and was a quaterbacks coach for seatle. To me that promotion does not make sense unless he will be supplemented and mentored by an offensive minded head coach. Now out of the superbowl, the only standout for a HC position might be spangulo (sp?) so it doesnt seem to correlate. Are there any bright offensive minds out there that might be considered for a HC position?


I hope its not pete carol, dont like the idea of another college head coach coming to the skins.


EDIT: Mcdaniels is probably too young to be considered...plus he stated that he is staying in new england. I know thats not set in stone...but still.

Everyone knows in Seattle that Holmgren calls all the plays on offense. I wonder how much say Zorn had with what plays were called? I doubt he had much of a say being that Holmgrens ego is the size of California. Just makes you wonder how Snyder thinks a QB coach is qualified and ready to call plays for the Skins! Ai yai yai! Doh!

SkinsFreak wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:The main reason why it would matter here is that Zorn has never called his own plays in the NFL.

Yo do realize Zorn called plays in the NFL for 11 years, at the line of scrimmage, right?. Yes, he's never called plays as OC, but, several sports writers from the Seattle Post said, over the past few years, Zorn was a major player and contributor in the play design and scheme for Holgrem in meetings. Holgrem called plays many plays specifically designed by Zorn. Having been a former QB in the league, reading defenses and calling plays at the line for 11 years, is some beneficial experience.

Zorn was highly regarded in Seattle. He was going to be the OC there after Holgrem and both of those guys from the Post said a lot of fans wanted him as the head coach. But outside of Seattle, he is also highly regarded by many coaches from around the league. We've even heard recently that Williams, Fassel and Meeks wanted him. So there has to be a reason for this. Again, I agree he's never called play as an OC, but he's got some highly touted experience and knowledge.

The fact that Zorn called plays in the early 80's at the line couldn't matter less to me.

The knock on Gibbs was that his plays were old, but anything Zorn did at the line is much older.

He has never called plays in the NFL and that should scare some Redskins fans.

Also, we should be scared about the West Coast Offense since we don't have the people to carry that out at all.

Despite making what appears to be a huge mess in how they handled the process and search for a new HC, it looks very much like Snyder and Cerrato pulled off quite a deal in being able to get Zorn here as OC - this guy has reportedly been doing very well with Holmgren and we were able to get him signed before Seattle (and other teams) were able to secure his services.

I am fairly sure that what we are going to see here this season is a variation of a type of offense that some refer to as a West Coast offense and the Gibbs/Saunders offense that we had here recently. Maybe soon they will come up with another name for this but I am sure Zorn will combine his expertise at interpreting defenses with his familiarity with the base West Coast offense and the Gibbs/Saunders offense (actually all are a derivation of what Coryell ran) into something that I feel will involve a lot more scoring and a lot less predictability.

One of the benefits of having somebody like Zorn here will be that no other defensive co-ordinator will be able to predict what they are going to see because there is no book on him - a short while ago we were all anticipating seeing Saunders offense combined with Gibbs' game planning - I don't think that was ever really allowed by Gibbs - with Zorn (and I presume Mariucci) I think we are in for an interesting and effective offense this season.

I also anticipate the defense under Blache will be basically the same as what Williams had here and hopefully we can add the pass rushing DE and depth in the secondary that we need.