The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Ihe is a classy person and put up with a lot of hate while he was trying to help this team.

This is a sports site dude. We debate who should be on the team, who should play, who should coach. This is a diversion, we should be free to endlessly argue all those things. Now when we want someone to sit because he sucks or we want to cut him because we have 2 grizzled vets and only need one it's HATE? Give me a break.

You think it was okay to not only advocate physical harm to a player BUT also to offer to pay anyone who would do that - that is all I'm referring to - that is low and anyone who supports that or advocates that it is okay because "this is a sports site dude" or that they paid their entry fee to the game so they are entitled to advocate physical harm to a player - is a jerk and should get medical help - give me a break

I am all for dialogue and arguments but anyone that would stoop so low is beneath contempt.

I am not against Brunell bashing but there are forms of it that are just an indication of how stupid some people are - these people should be put away, they are scum AND anyone who defends them is in the same category

Fios wrote:Um, whatever your opinion of Mark, it's a stretch, at best, to say he's part of what has happened to the Redskins in any significant sense.

Except that, if he'd made any kind of impression during the preseason, we might never have seen Collins play this season. So, Brunell made a significant impact on our playoff run! In fact, he made it possible.

UK Skins Fan wrote:

Fios wrote:Um, whatever your opinion of Mark, it's a stretch, at best, to say he's part of what has happened to the Redskins in any significant sense.

Except that, if he'd made any kind of impression during the preseason, we might never have seen Collins play this season. So, Brunell made a significant impact on our playoff run! In fact, he made it possible.

It's all in how you look at it. This is a team of destiny and we will knock off the evil empire!

SkinsJock wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Ihe is a classy person and put up with a lot of hate while he was trying to help this team.

This is a sports site dude. We debate who should be on the team, who should play, who should coach. This is a diversion, we should be free to endlessly argue all those things. Now when we want someone to sit because he sucks or we want to cut him because we have 2 grizzled vets and only need one it's HATE? Give me a break.

You think it was okay to not only advocate physical harm to a player BUT also to offer to pay anyone who would do that - that is all I'm referring to - that is low and anyone who supports that or advocates that it is okay because "this is a sports site dude" or that they paid their entry fee to the game so they are entitled to advocate physical harm to a player - is a jerk and should get medical help - give me a break

I am all for dialogue and arguments but anyone that would stoop so low is beneath contempt.

I am not against Brunell bashing but there are forms of it that are just an indication of how stupid some people are - these people should be put away, they are scum AND anyone who defends them is in the same category

I tell my wife I'm going to beat her when I call her for lunch every day. Does that mean I'm really contemplating it? Get a grip dude. It was frustration ebing vented with likeminded people; Redskins fans. If everything you hear is taken literally, then I don't know what to tell you....

I agree Capster- actually IF we make it to the big dance I firmly believe that same destiny will carry the day - I'll even go further and say that as difficult as getting there might be on the NFC side the AFC games will be a war of attrition and that will bode well for success for the NFC this year.

But I would love to have another crack at NE all the same - they have one of the better QBs playing right now and it would be really satisfying to stop their win streak at 18

SkinsJock wrote:You think it was okay to not only advocate physical harm to a player BUT also to offer to pay anyone who would do that

What the jellybeans are you talking about? I re-read the entire forum and I don't see a single reference to anyone advocating or in any way discussing harming Brunell. "Getting rid of him" meant cutting him, not dropping him in a lake with his hands tied. This post is one drunk donkey quote.

SkinsJock wrote:I am not against Brunell bashing but there are forms of it that are just an indication of how stupid some people are - these people should be put away, they are scum AND anyone who defends them is in the same category

So...I'm defending them and I'm scum for not knowing what was in your head but not in the discussion or anywhere in the forum? Dude, this is one tripping post.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I re-read the entire forum

Damn, move over Evelyn Wood.

JSPB22 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I re-read the entire forum

Damn, move over Evelyn Wood.

I covered one eye just to make it fair!

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:You think it was okay to not only advocate physical harm to a player BUT also to offer to pay anyone who would do that

What the jellybeans are you talking about? I re-read the entire forum and I don't see a single reference to anyone advocating or in any way discussing harming Brunell. "Getting rid of him" meant cutting him, not dropping him in a lake with his hands tied. This post is one drunk donkey quote.

SkinsJock wrote:I am not against Brunell bashing but there are forms of it that are just an indication of how stupid some people are - these people should be put away, they are scum AND anyone who defends them is in the same category

So...I'm defending them and I'm scum for not knowing what was in your head but not in the discussion or anywhere in the forum? Dude, this is one tripping post.

You are what you are - as far as what I was referring to - at 12:38 pm (2nd paragraph) I posted a reference about how some here in the past had advocated physical harm to Brunell - I am just reminding some of these people whom I consider scum that Brunell despite their hatred will get a Super Bowl ring because he is a part of this team IF we are so lucky as to win the Super Bowl.

The only thing I was adding was that IF anyone supports people who advocate physical harm to a player ANY player they are in my opinion also scum - are you with me?

the scum that advocated these actions are the only ones who should be upset - AND anyone who thought that was OK

I just love to clear things up for people - happy now? maybe you should have had both eyes open

cheers

It looks to me that, right now,

- Collins is the best QB on the Skins. Please sign him. Yes. I think Collins should start until Campbell can out-play him.

- Campbell has talent, but he's not a finished product, and he is in no shape to play the rest of the season.

- For the future, yes, Brunell is too expensive to be a third stringer.

- For the playoffs, I'd want nobody else. Brunell is smart, sees the plays, and has some experience with Saunders. Given Moss, Randle-El, Caldwell, Thrash, McCardell, and ey, the Brunell has a lot more receivers than the last playoff series. Wasn't Taylor Jacobs a starting WR? Agree: none of them is Future Hall of Famer Art Monk, but that's more depth than the last time. Also, the OL seems to have pulled together...that helps. I remember Brunell being pressured on nearly every pass.

While I am not a Brunell supporter - I have always supported whoever is playing for my team and this was just an opportunity to remind the extreme Brunell haters (NOT the standard, run of the mill, Brunell haters ) that IF we were lucky enough to get a Super Bowl ring then Brunell will get a Super Bowl ring before he leaves

I just love to remind some here of things that were posted that were truly not suppotive of our team when it was going through some very troubling times

welch brings up a good point - we might need Brunell if anything were to happen to Collins - Campbell, in my opinion, should not be pushed back into action and I also am not sure he will be ready to play again this year - knees are tricky joints

I doubt that Collins leaves but I am sure we will not see Brunell back even if he came out and won the Super Bowl

Champsturf wrote:I disagree....I think a LOT of Todd's success is due to his familiarity with Saunder's system. I don't see him going anywhere.

He'd be nuts to leave and we'd be nuts not to keep him by offering him a big check an a fair shot at being No. 1. To me, that's the only way to approach the situation.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

Champsturf wrote:I disagree....I think a LOT of Todd's success is due to his familiarity with Saunder's system. I don't see him going anywhere.

He'd be nuts to leave and we'd be nuts not to keep him by offering him a big check an a fair shot at being No. 1. To me, that's the only way to approach the situation.

I don't know about the big check. I think you guys are overestimating his value on the FA market. He's no spring chicken.

JSPB22 wrote:I don't know about the big check. I think you guys are overestimating his value on the FA market. He's no spring chicken.

And he's no turkey either. Or a goose - he's not a goose either. He may be a duck, but I don't know him well.

Sorry, my medication is wearing off. Back to topic: it is clearly highly desirabe to re-sign Collins, but this is probably one of those situations where the Redskins need to decide how much he is worth, offer the money, and stick to it. The way he and the team are playing at the moment could lead to him being overvalued, both by the Redskins and others. He's not going to be the Redskins' starting QB for the next 5 years, and we should be careful not to pay him as such.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:You think it was okay to not only advocate physical harm to a player BUT also to offer to pay anyone who would do that

What the jellybeans are you talking about? I re-read the entire forum and I don't see a single reference to anyone advocating or in any way discussing harming Brunell. "Getting rid of him" meant cutting him, not dropping him in a lake with his hands tied. This post is one drunk donkey quote.

SkinsJock wrote:I am not against Brunell bashing but there are forms of it that are just an indication of how stupid some people are - these people should be put away, they are scum AND anyone who defends them is in the same category

So...I'm defending them and I'm scum for not knowing what was in your head but not in the discussion or anywhere in the forum? Dude, this is one tripping post.

I guess you don't recall the threads to which Jock was referring, where some people were wishing physical harm on a Redskins player. Whether it was genuine spite, or just venting, it showed some people up to be less than decent fans.

SkinsJock wrote:I just love to clear things up for people - happy now? maybe you should have had both eyes open

cheers

OK, you made the reference to harming Brunell. I was actually focusing on other people's posts to see who had referred to harming Brunell you were responding to and since I didn't see any I was confused.

You want to talk eyes, I backed up my point with what I meant, which was discussing playing and cutting players and I didn't list harming Brunell so maybe you should consider taking a little of your own advice.

UK Skins Fan wrote:

kazoo wrote:So...I'm defending them and I'm scum for not knowing what was in your head but not in the discussion or anywhere in the forum? Dude, this is one tripping post.

I guess you don't recall the threads to which Jock was referring, where some people were wishing physical harm on a Redskins player. Whether it was genuine spite, or just venting, it showed some people up to be less than decent fans.

I hadn't seen references to harming Brunell, but I do agree that's tasteless and just isn't appropriate even as a "joke." I hadn't read most of the Brunell bashing for awhile, we had exhausted the JC versus MB pretty well. I was wading back into it now that it's about cutting MB for TC and a project and didn't know there were alligators in the river. THIS forum was about cutting Brunell so the hurting him was out of the blue to me.

No worries KSF - when I re-read the posts myself I could tell that you had misunderstood what I was referring to and that hatred was awhile back like you said - the current "issue" is really a different set of players - my ire was not at you and I just over-reacted because of what a couple of posters here had said a long time ago still makes me mad but we should all move on

it's cool - we are not looking nearly as bad a football team as the record indicates and I am sure that we will keep on track this off-season

HAIL

SkinsJock wrote:No worries KSF - when I re-read the posts myself I could tell that you had misunderstood what I was referring to and that hatred was awhile back like you said - the current "issue" is really a different set of players - my ire was not at you and I just over-reacted because of what a couple of posters here had said a long time ago still makes me mad but we should all move on

it's cool - we are not looking nearly as bad a football team as the record indicates and I am sure that we will keep on track this off-season

HAIL

I am personally hoping that Brunell retires so that his contract magically disappears. He would make a great #3 (or, I think, even a #2), but he makes far too much money for that role—and he's expendable.

Irn-Bru wrote:I am personally hoping that Brunell retires so that his contract magically disappears. He would make a great #3 (or, I think, even a #2), but he makes far too much money for that role—and he's expendable.

True! Lets spend that money where we need it more.

Irn-Bru wrote:I am personally hoping that Brunell retires so that his contract magically disappears. He would make a great #3 (or, I think, even a #2), but he makes far too much money for that role—and he's expendable.

I also hope he retires. However, I don't think I am being a bad fan in suggesting that he's totally expendable and has been for years. To me, Brunell was a formerly great quarterback but already more than just moderately well done when we acquired him. I think he has been a colossal waste of time and money and the worse mistake Gibbs ever made in football.

It's still a black mark against him that can only be erased by a couple of Super Bowl wins.

rick301 wrote:Seeing how well Todd is playing, and thinking ahead to the off season (starting in February) we should keep TC (assuming we can come to terms with him) and of course JC, but do we keep MB or look for a younger vet or a rookie project?

Thoughts?

I hope we'll pay him starter money and keep him as the starter until he loses the job. As long as he plays like he has been, we'll be one of the top teams in football.

I don't understand some of the people on this board. There are many who wanted to stick with the old vet Brunell even though he stunk up the field week after week, but want to hurry Collins to the bench after four straight wins and a QB rating of 106.

Sorry, it seems there's a slavish desire here to vindicate Gibbs regardless of what he does. Brunell was a "wily vet," no matter how horribly he played, and now "Campbell's the "man of the future," regardless of how well his replacement plays and the simple fact that his record for the Skins is less impressive than Ramsey's and has included a few outrageous chokes that Ramsey never would have survived.

Skewed vision makes me nervous. Loyalties-- good; blindness and predjudice caused by loyalties-- bad. Football mirrors life, politics, social attitudes, etc. Too many people think with their attitudes; for instance, I now have to really struggle to think rationally about anything a certain political leader says or does.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

rick301 wrote:Seeing how well Todd is playing, and thinking ahead to the off season (starting in February) we should keep TC (assuming we can come to terms with him) and of course JC, but do we keep MB or look for a younger vet or a rookie project?

Thoughts?

Ideal is we keep JC and TC and dump Brunell for a project. But...

- Projects worth being projects are not so easy to come by

- TC may be pricing himself out of our range.

I hope we can swing that, but no way we should kill our cap to do it. TC is solid, but he's not a great talent, he's a solid QB leading a talented team coming together at the right time. To somehow say he's the CAUSE of this is absurd. Clearly he's PART of those deserving credit though.

Nothing absurd about it. He's the previously missing incredient, the guy who can run the offense to its potential. He's also extremely talented-- talent being a matter of eyes and brains, as well as arm. He has an almost uncanny ability to spot open receivers and deliver the ball with impeccable timing. As long as the line holds, he'll complete passes.

It doesn't bother me at all that a succession of coaches kept him on the bench. Pro football is littered with personnel goofs. Unitas was almost a casualty of his physical appearance and less than impressive spirals. We've dumped real stars, as has every other NFL team, as well as discovered gems in mud. Truth is, it's extremely difficult to evaluate footbal talent, much more so than it is to evaluate talent in other sports.

Collins is hitting everything, which open up every thing else on offense. It's not a case of things coming together as it is as finding an ignition key so that things can work together.