The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

El Mexican wrote:He´d want this team to show some cojones! Fire in the belly! Win some freakin' games already!

MEZZSKIN wrote:this thread is repulsive....no one is argueing how bad they have been and how changes might us help this out bigtime...

BUT GUYS THIS FRANCHISE IS IN MOURNING....give it a rest and move on in your life.....you want wins and playoffs???..even after today??...

the personnel decsions and the management decsions will come in time and will be handled accordingly......

but right now this teama nd ITS COACH needs its unwavering support just for the next couple of weeks so we can just finish the season up...after that its back to business

but now????? ....its sad....talk all you want but this an embarassing thread...very embarassing

then don't click on it. what's so hard about that?

i wasn't whining about how the team played yesterday. i'm talking about the direction its headed in. i could give a rats ass about wins or the playoffs right now. my point was to get things headed in the right direction in the offseason by starting with some structure.

whats really embarassing is that you even agreed with what i was saying, but still had to be an ass about it, because you didn't like the timing...... boo freakin hoo.

but right now this teama nd ITS COACH needs its unwavering support just for the next couple of weeks so we can just finish the season up...after that its back to business

I agree with ya, we suck. We truly do. No Fire, no chip on shoulder routine even after going thru the worst possible scenario, the game was built up for us to win and we somehow blow it, and this isn't the only game that we came out flat, and collapsed at the end. We are what we are, we suck. I miss #21, losing him was big, huge even... But we should all move on and try to change something, get away from the Jumbo, or get Jason to perform, one way I can see that happening is getting better protection, and giving him time. hailskins timing is not that bad, we are grieving, yes, but what do you think ST would want the team to do.. He'd want them to move on, get in there and play hard, all out, devil may care football. Just my 2 cents.

I agree with Hail Skins.

This past month I lost one of my best friend Joey Masaniai, Then I was hit with the newz that we lost Sean Taylor too. It officially is the worst week two weeks of my life.

I have mourned enough already. Once you feel better you live on with the good memories. Crying does no one any good. Crying is so that you feel better and let out the emotions. Once that is done you move on. Keep the good memories with you, honor his name. You still have to move on.

Moving on does not mean forgetting.

HEROHAMO wrote:I agree with Hail Skins.

This past month I lost one of my best friend Joey Masaniai, Then I was hit with the newz that we lost Sean Taylor too. It officially is the worst week two weeks of my life.

I have mourned enough already. Once you feel better you live on with the good memories. Crying does no one any good. Crying is so that you feel better and let out the emotions. Once that is done you move on. Keep the good memories with you, honor his name. You still have to move on.

Moving on does not mean forgetting.

But some may not move on as quickly. Jake may not move on as fast as Redskin1, I may not move on as fast as you. The service was today and I'm not sure if you saw it but it was highly emotional. Im not saying his points aren't valid.

HEROHAMO wrote:I agree with Hail Skins.

This past month I lost one of my best friend Joey Masaniai,

Aye man, sorry to hear about that death of your best friend, just remember Heaven is always better than here on earth and just value your time spent with him!!!

Dude. The Redskins have sucked for the last 15 years. That's not breaking news. Today was a good day to give talk about it a break. The whole team is burying a teammate today. Tomorrow we can go back to the un-reality of caring about a sports team. Today is for the reality of life and death and dignity through it all.

I promised myself that I wasn't going to say it, so I will break that and make this the first and last time:

"If Sean Taylor had been out there on the field, he would have either blasted Josh Reed and knocked the ball out or straight up intercepted it, and they would have won the game."

They win the game, they're 6-6 with a leg up in the playoff hunt.

Now, I don't know how timely this thread is or not. Saying it directly to the Redskins organization, and it's piling on in their moment of grief. Saying it to the fans who populate this board probably isn't. If Hailskins makes this thread after that kind of loss without there having been such an awful event to occur, he probably gets 70% agreement.

A change will probably be needed, losing this many halftime leads speaks to a lack of adjustments and that falls on the coaching staff. The embarassing gaffe at the end of the game probably didn't make a difference, Rian Lindell was going to hit that kick anyway it looks like. But it was a definite head shaker. Is it Joe's time? Maybe it is.

With all that said, I can't bring myself to care with the same vigor that I would have had Sean's life not been taken from him while protecting his own home. That resonates more to me than the travails of the team on the field at this moment, and I can't blame the men who wear that uniform and suited up with Sean Taylor if they feel the same way.

hailskins666 wrote:[/rant]

That cracked me up.

We must be watching different games. I'm seeing our D re-assert itself after a bad year. A very young QB start to tear up the field. Yesterday the D was outstanding, no TDs and if we didn't have a young QB who's not mastered the red zone where 11 defenders have to cover only 30 yards (or less) and scored more TDs we win. He's lost two games recently with 3 late INTs.

We have almost beaten 3/4 NFC division leaders. I have no idea what you're talking about. And this is while our o-line, receivers and defense have been endlessly crippled by injury. We have been in every game but one to the end.

Your rant made no sense, even if it did end humorously. The NFL is ultra competitive and a very steep slope. Your expectations are not realistic. We are so clearly making great strides and are so close to being a very good team. We could be 11-1 now with a QB with one year of experience and a team ravaged by injuries. What are you thinking to say such complete and utter nonsense?

Your expectations are just

Blowing it up is not the answer........this team is close. We need to elevate Williams to head coach, Gibbs team president and Al saunders to O coordinator........I'f als stuff is bad next year we should get a different O coordinator.............We need youth in the O line and D-line.........We need a big time playmaker at WR...............We need youth at RB (portis, as much as I love him has lost a step)...........the one area where we were solid was safety (rip 21) ....so we need to shore up that............There are some good free agent corners this year we could pick up as well........with the right draft and a few additions we could make a good run next year........

Blowing it up would only make the process longer IMO..........

Frustration, anger and desperation are not the keys to move forward.

Look guys, I have my OWN PRETTY LONG list of difficulties with the choices and circumstances confronted by the Team as recently as the offseason, let alone over the last decade and a half.

HailSkins666 and I SAW IT DARN coming when we did not pick solid players to reinforce our DL and OL. It is very simple, in order for Joe Gibbs' system to work, the OL needs to be DOMINANT and the DL needs to be able to rush consistently and stuff the run effectively. NOTHING in the world is going to change this situation this season. On the contrary, we have been hurt badly on our OL because we are a top heavy team with expensive starters but doubtful depth.

Dan Snyder, please do not get me started. Vinny Cerrato? Idem. My list of grievances is long and probably more to the core than most of you.

BUT at this moment in time, win or lose, play well or badly, my Washington Redskins, the WHOLE of the Redskins organization, have my INCONDITIONAL support and loyalty. There will be time and plenty of opportunity to bad-mouth everyone and everything during the offseason. But just now and for the rest of the season my heart and mind is WITH MY COACHES AND PLAYERS on the field and they can count with my full support and commitment. Win or lose, I do not care.

I am with you Joe. I am with you Buges. I will always be here for you.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:[/rant]

That cracked me up.

We must be watching different games. I'm seeing our D re-assert itself after a bad year. A very young QB start to tear up the field. Yesterday the D was outstanding, no TDs and if we didn't have a young QB who's not mastered the red zone where 11 defenders have to cover only 30 yards (or less) and scored more TDs we win. He's lost two games recently with 3 late INTs.

We have almost beaten 3/4 NFC division leaders. I have no idea what you're talking about. And this is while our o-line, receivers and defense have been endlessly crippled by injury. We have been in every game but one to the end.

Your rant made no sense, even if it did end humorously. The NFL is ultra competitive and a very steep slope. Your expectations are not realistic. We are so clearly making great strides and are so close to being a very good team. We could be 11-1 now with a QB with one year of experience and a team ravaged by injuries. What are you thinking to say such complete and utter nonsense?

Your expectations are just

cool. if thats the way you think.

i love the 'we could be' this, this and this IF......... comments.

doesn't change anything. we still aren't this, this or this. that IS the reallity of it all. if things were as 'peachy' as you say, yesterdays loss would have meant nothing on the way to our superbowl berth. we could bear to take a loss in the wake of this tragedy. but we aren't. we are average at best, with a few prospects that could be nice.

and on another note, you must be watching a different jason campell than i am. guy can't come through on a game winning drive to save his ass, and the only other qb i remember seeing lose as many fumbles for the skins was patrick ramsey, who was given the boot for such transgressions.

your glass is half full, mine is half empty. maybe we can just agree to disagree?

Californiaskin wrote:Blowing it up is not the answer........this team is close. We need to elevate Williams to head coach, Gibbs team president and Al saunders to O coordinator........I'f als stuff is bad next year we should get a different O coordinator.............We need youth in the O line and D-line.........We need a big time playmaker at WR...............We need youth at RB (portis, as much as I love him has lost a step)...........the one area where we were solid was safety (rip 21) ....so we need to shore up that............There are some good free agent corners this year we could pick up as well........with the right draft and a few additions we could make a good run next year........

Blowing it up would only make the process longer IMO..........

we are 'close' but we need all of that?



what makes you think al saunders would even want to stay?

and you just proved my point even more by saying:

with the right draft and a few additions we could make a good run next year........

a good run. at what the playoffs? we proved we aren't even CLOSE to superbowl contention by playing the best the AFC has to offer earlier in the year..... but we'll make a run?

what a lousy, no thought post.

Redskin in Canada wrote:Frustration, anger and desperation are not the keys to move forward.

Look guys, I have my OWN PRETTY LONG list of difficulties with the choices and circumstances confronted by the Team as recently as the offseason, let alone over the last decade and a half.

HailSkins666 and I SAW IT DARN coming when we did not pick solid players to reinforce our DL and OL. It is very simple, in order for Joe Gibbs' system to work, the OL needs to be DOMINANT and the DL needs to be able to rush consistently and stuff the run effectively. NOTHING in the world is going to change this situation this season. On the contrary, we have been hurt badly on our OL because we are a top heavy team with expensive starters but doubtful depth.

Dan Snyder, please do not get me started. Vinny Cerrato? Idem. My list of grievances is long and probably more to the core than most of you.

BUT at this moment in time, win or lose, play well or badly, my Washington Redskins, the WHOLE of the Redskins organization, have my INCONDITIONAL support and loyalty. There will be time and plenty of opportunity to bad-mouth everyone and everything during the offseason. But just now and for the rest of the season my heart and mind is WITH MY COACHES AND PLAYERS on the field and they can count with my full support and commitment. Win or lose, I do not care.

I am with you Joe. I am with you Buges. I will always be here for you.

dude, i've been screamin DL since gibbs got back. it is the ONE position that has been ignored, while tons of DL talent was out there, but the 'staff' went opposite routes. such as archuleta. who here thinks that the money spent on arch would not have suited either line better? we just don't have talent evaluators here that are on par to the rest of the nfl.

it is NOT gibbs' fault or williams' or saunders'. that is NOT their job. we just don't have the structure to get it done.

RIC, i know what you do professionally. and respect it a great deal. but what is one thing that these people that you help on a daily basis need? isn't it structure, and guidance? a system in place?

what makes the redskins any different? we are without competent structure. we don't have the person at the top to point fingers at. snyder is NOT in the picture anymore. gibbs IS the team president and oversees ALL personnel moves. in my opinion, he has NOT done his job. there is no set structure here. and in your job, it causes civil war, which we've had on the boards for as long as i can remember. we need THAT guy to call the shots. i don't know who it is, but it's not my job to know that. but from this, watching from afar, it does look as if we could use a GM or THAT guy.

I completely agree with everything you posted.

Don't listen to the guys on their high horses (not that you are). I think it's important to move on. I loved Sean Taylor as much as any player who's ever put on a Redskins uniform, but he's gone now, and we can't keep dwelling on his murder or we'll make ourselves crazy.

hailskins666 wrote:RIC, i know what you do professionally. and respect it a great deal. but what is one thing that these people that you help on a daily basis need? isn't it structure, and guidance? a system in place?

You are right.

hailskins666 wrote:what makes the redskins any different?

Nothing.

hailskins666 wrote:we are without competent structure.

You are right.

hailskins666 wrote:we need THAT guy to call the shots. i don't know who it is, but it's not my job to know that. but from this, watching from afar, it does look as if we could use a GM or THAT guy.

All of this is TRUE. But I cannot change ANY of this if I start screaming about it at the LOWEST point and weakest mental status of many fans and players. I do not care about the wins. For one, I care about the way I support these MEN as human beings now more than than what they do for me to gratify my ego to win some games for us. That's all.

If you get my drift, I care a hell of a lot more about them as persons than as players. I cannot ask what they cannot give THIS SEASON. At least I can offer my support and solidarity.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:RIC, i know what you do professionally. and respect it a great deal. but what is one thing that these people that you help on a daily basis need? isn't it structure, and guidance? a system in place?

You are right.

hailskins666 wrote:what makes the redskins any different?

Nothing.

hailskins666 wrote:we are without competent structure.

You are right.

hailskins666 wrote:we need THAT guy to call the shots. i don't know who it is, but it's not my job to know that. but from this, watching from afar, it does look as if we could use a GM or THAT guy.

All of this is TRUE. But I cannot change ANY of this if I start screaming about it at the LOWEST point and weakest mental status of many fans and players. I do not care about the wins. For one, I care about the way I support these MEN as human beings now more than than what they do for me to gratify my ego to win some games for us. That's all.

If you get my drift, I care a hell of a lot more about them as persons than as players. I cannot ask what they cannot give THIS SEASON. At least I can offer my support and solidarity.

i get all that. i didn't comment in the gameday threads, nor have i even commented on the game. but i did realize something watching the redskins play yesterday.

is that not why we are here, to discuss the team? to talk football? thats all i'm trying to do. i never once brought up our record, or making the playoffs this years.

i only brought up something that is very painfully obvious to me at this point. am i wrong for trying to discuss football, on a football message board? i'm just trying to move on. i can't do that by lying to myself or anyone else and saying 'go team'...... 'your effort is all that matters'....../ etc, etc. it's not all that matters. i'm not going to sugar coat it. we've already been doing that for too long as fans.

usually tragedy sparks change. thats what it sparked in me.

Redskin in Canada wrote:BUT at this moment in time, win or lose, play well or badly, my Washington Redskins, the WHOLE of the Redskins organization, have my INCONDITIONAL support and loyalty.

What about your unconditional support and loyalty? I'd rather have that...

PulpExposure wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:BUT at this moment in time, win or lose, play well or badly, my Washington Redskins, the WHOLE of the Redskins organization, have my INCONDITIONAL support and loyalty.

What about your unconditional support and loyalty? I'd rather have that...

I have two excuses:

a) typo, u and i keys are next to one another.

b) I have been speaking Portuguese full-time over the last week and a half.

But UNCONDITIONAL it is.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:BUT at this moment in time, win or lose, play well or badly, my Washington Redskins, the WHOLE of the Redskins organization, have my INCONDITIONAL support and loyalty.

What about your unconditional support and loyalty? I'd rather have that...

I have two excuses:

a) typo, u and i keys are next to one another.

b) I have been speaking Portuguese full-time over the last week and a half.

But UNCONDITIONAL it is.

dude, now you sound just like gibbs with the PC excuses and all.

THN resident jerk surely revels in five pages of discussion to his post. Sounds like he loves emotional debate and threw one hell of an emotional hand grenade into the boards. Hate what he says, bite your lip and don't post, come back and argue football when you feel up to it. Everyone grieves in different ways.

For my part read the coverage of the funeral today and the fact that pretty much the whole Redskin organisation was their and there was a standing ovation of appreciation for the way the team has acted in unity over this tragedy. Well it made me feel better, we may suck on the field but we are pretty classy elsewhere. OK that won't be enough for the resident jerk but he is entitled to his opinion, though he may hate my liberal sentiments

Is the temper tantrum over yet? All I see is something I'd ground my 7yo for... throwing a fit.....

Oh, the hypocrisy of a killjoy feigning optimism...

VetSkinsFan wrote:Is the temper tantrum over yet? All I see is something I'd ground my 7yo for... throwing a fit.....

maybe you should beat his ass while you're at it, big guy.

BossHog wrote:Oh, the hypocrisy of a killjoy feigning optimism...

You know, I was just thinking this morning how since Snyder has owned the team we've had great nuclei to build around but went for the splash instead.

Snyder bought the team in May of 1999 so I'll say that 2000 was his first season for all intents and purposes.

We had a 26 year old Stephen Davis, a 25 year old Steven Alexander and a bunch of old role players (who were meant to be stars). With that offseason between the 99 and 2000 seasons we could have been adding young pieces into the mix. We drafted Arrington and Samuels in the first round that year, but no one else of consequence at the back end of the draft.

In these days on defense we had 25 yo Derek Smith, 22 year old Champ Bailey... and we didn't build around these guys. We just added old veterans to the travelling All-Stars.

If we had a properly run organization, the Redskins would be celebrating the late 90's and early oughts as another golden age.

Danny is learning about what it takes to build a winner I think, but Gibbs might also be a calming influence. Would be have the same effect as a team president?

In any case, what this team needs is a GM, someone who is a professional scout with a law degree who can work with Danny's capologists and the coaches to determine the best fit both from a football standpoint and from a business standpoint.

If the Redskins took about 3 years to rebuild with strong drafts and young free agents we could be a powerhouse again.

Skinsfan55 wrote:..You know, I was just thinking this morning how since Snyder has owned the team we've had great nuclei to build around but went for the splash instead.

Snyder bought the team in May of 1999 so I'll say that 2000 was his first season for all intents and purposes.

We had a 26 year old Stephen Davis, a 25 year old Steven Alexander and a bunch of old role players (who were meant to be stars). With that offseason between the 99 and 2000 seasons we could have been adding young pieces into the mix. We drafted Arrington and Samuels in the first round that year, but no one else of consequence at the back end of the draft.

In these days on defense we had 25 yo Derek Smith, 22 year old Champ Bailey... and we didn't build around these guys. We just added old veterans to the travelling All-Stars.

If we had a properly run organization, the Redskins would be celebrating the late 90's and early oughts as another golden age.

Well that is certainly a revelation - geez - this has been re-hashed here so often .....

Danny is learning about what it takes to build a winner I think, but Gibbs might also be a calming influence. Would be have the same effect as a team president?

Having Gibbs in any capacity is going to be a plus

... In any case, what this team needs is a GM, someone who is a professional scout with a law degree who can work with Danny's capologists and the coaches to determine the best fit both from a football standpoint and from a business standpoint.

If the Redskins took about 3 years to rebuild with strong drafts and young free agents we could be a powerhouse again.

stating the obvious again

at this time, mostly due to Gibbs IMO, we have a decent number of draft choices this coming year and I believe that Gibbs will continue to build both through the draft and through free agents as he has attempted to do here for the last 2 years. There was a lot of restraint here last year and I expect to continue to see that.

We are a better team than when he began and we will continue to get better if we allow him to keep building this team.

all I'm saying here is that we need to give Gibbs those 3 years you are referring to and he will get this team back on track to sustained success. He has already done well when you consider how badly we were situated when he took over.