The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gibbs4Life wrote:You all disgust me, it's not JG's fault our pro-bowl safety was shot dead this week and coincidentally buffalo burned our secondary down the middle of the field in a 1 min drill to set up a field goal. If ST was on the field we win this game

The most retarded thing I've read all week. ST was injured and wouldn't have played in the game anyway.

Cowher and Russ Grimm would be great, It is time that Joe goes, send Al Saunders with him.

This team has developed a pattern of getting leads in the first half, then pissing them away in the second by playing prevent offense. That's all on the coaching staff.

Ok, so lets fire Gibbs and bring in a new coaching staff...

Here we go again, another 2/3 years of rebuilding. Oh joy!

langleyparkjoe wrote:Ok, so lets fire Gibbs and bring in a new coaching staff...

Here we go again, another 2/3 years of rebuilding. Oh joy!

The rebuilding Joe has done for 4 years hasn't exactly gotten them where they need to be, now has it? The team has a few glaring needs player wise to make it to the big time, but with these coaches, it won't matter. The same bad decisions would be made, as seen by the lack of change this current staff shows. What is needed is a Head Coach that can coach. That would require imagination and a willingness to change/adjust. The current staff has neither, starting at the top.

What is the facination with Cowher? 15 years, 1 Superbowl victory, and that primarily because they were able to pull out a trick play that worked.

Seriously? Cowher is Marty S, except with just a little more luck.

Countertrey wrote:What is the facination with Cowher? 15 years, 1 Superbowl victory, and that primarily because they were able to pull out a trick play that worked.

Seriously? Cowher is Marty S, except with just a little more luck.

The fascination is probably just because he's out there, available. His winning percentage is decent (.623), as is his playoff appearances (10 out of 15 seasons). A good part of his success could be because of his staff (Whisenhunt, Grimm, etc.), so I'm not certain Cowher would be able to equal his success here - there are no guarantees. However, Pittsburgh isn't known for spending as much $$, so you have to respect what he did with more of a 'small-market' team and budget. Ultimately, Cowher represents hope for people (including myself) who no longer have any with Gibbs at the helm.

What is the facination with Cowher? 15 years, 1 Superbowl victory, and that primarily because they were able to pull out a trick play that worked.

Seriously? Cowher is Marty S, except with just a little more luck.

For a good while now, it seems like from Snyder on down to the fans we have been looking for that quick fix. A high priced free agent here, a hall of fame coach there, and bam, we have a Super Bowl.

I would much rather see a coach looking to prove themselves, and even better a hog like Russ Grimm.

At this point i dont care if he stays or goes, either way is a moot point. If he stays then we keep some sort of chemestry, routine and consistancy (a consistancy or being inconsistant anyways). That being said... Does anyone honestly believe a different coach couldnt win 6 gams a year with our talent and willingness to spend money? One side says that we are losing close games and that we are very close to being a good team. Another year with JC at the helm, a few offseason acquisitions and we are right there. But its been 4 years now and we are still losing close games, not making the correct adjustments, strugeling with clock and game management and are not really sure of our identity. So again.. do you really think any of a slew of coaches could not manage to win 6 games a year? With our talent I suspect any number of retreads could manage even an 8-8 record. For what its worth, i think we should hire Jason Garrett. That would hurt our strongest division rival and give us a YOUNG, and FEARLESS headcoach, who certainly is not conservative and just has a winning aura about him IMO.

I can understand where ya'll are coming from but what I meant by 2/3 year rebuilding is that if Cower (or whichever coach) comes here, who's to say they may want our personnel? Maybe they would want to totally revamp the oline and get rid of players/bring some in. (which may not be a bad thing) That can go both ways of players on offense/defense. Gibbs' last year is '08 right? I say we give him that much to coach it out with a full season of hopefully healthy guys w/no distractions such as an untimely death. I'm not saying something else wouldn't come up, but I'd love to give him a chance and finish out his contract. I DON'T WANT HIM FIRED.. say what you want, he's still Gibbs and I'm fine with waiting for him to retire. Now imagine if next year we crush people and make it far into the playoffs, then what will ya'll say?

I agree with ya Langley, i think just let him finish his contract if he wants to, im just making the point that pretty much ANY coach could be as successfull as we've been the last 4 years IMO

langleyparkjoe wrote:I'm not saying something else wouldn't come up, but I'd love to give him a chance and finish out his contract. I DON'T WANT HIM FIRED.. say what you want, he's still Gibbs and I'm fine with waiting for him to retire.

I absolutely agree. He walks away on his own terms.

There is no way you can blame this year solely on Gibbs. Injuries and Sean's untimely demise have ruined this year.

Yeah, Gibbs hasn't been the best gameday coach, which is completely and utterly surprising and disappointing to me (having lived and enjoyed his entire first stint as a head coach), but still.

This is Joe Gibbs you're talking about!

Countertrey wrote:What is the facination with Cowher? 15 years, 1 Superbowl victory, and that primarily because they were able to pull out a trick play that worked.

Seriously? Cowher is Marty S, except with just a little more luck.

People are frustrated, desperate, angry and in search of ANYTHING and EVERYTHING that will come to their minds.

I DON'T WANT HIM FIRED.. say what you want, he's still Gibbs and I'm fine with waiting for him to retire. Now imagine if next year we crush people and make it far into the playoffs, then what will ya'll say?

I don't want to see him fired, and really I don't think Skins fans by and large would want to see that. But I also think the mistakes and mishaps this team has gone through since his return have almost made it more painful, remembering how great it was and seeing how bad it is now.

The more I watch him though, the more I could see him walking away after this year.

I would hope that Snyder has learned enough from the past 8 years to realize the importance of a GM. I also hope this off-season or whenever Gibbs leaves, they make an extensive search for the best coach for this team, not cherry pick the biggest name they can find
.

i don't think cowher is the answer.

i don't think one coach or one player is the answer either. a LOT of things are going to have to change to make the redskins 'great' again.

hailskins666 wrote:i don't think cowher is the answer.

i don't think one coach or one player is the answer either. a LOT of things are going to have to change to make the redskins 'great' again.

Throw it out there for us brutha, what things do you think we need to upgrade on to get us back to the "golden age"? I agree with you, the first step is a GM.

I don´t like the idea of bringing in Cowher. There will always be comparisons with what he did over at Pittsburg.

I´d much rather prefer Grimm. If you have to start from scratch, start out with a clean slate.

How about this one guys, since this team that we have is used to Williams and Saunders, why not have one of them be the head coach? I know Williams was a head coach in Buffalo and that didn't work out but if he was the head coach here, I'm kinda sure he may just let Saunders take full control of the offense and he'll handle the defense. Or hey, vice versa even, let Saunders be the head coach, he'll do the offense and he'll let Williams handle the defense. Sounds like a win/win situation coaching wise because we'd have the same system in place and there'd be no bickering about who's calling plays. Bringing in someone new/fresh to me seems like we'd be going backwards in starting over from scratch, IMO.

Or like some of you suggest, blow it all up and bring in someone new who may clean up shop and get rid of players... oh man.. i don't know what to think..

Be it Williams, Saunders, Grimm, or Cower the first thing we need to do is hire a GM.

Sir_Monk wrote:Be it Williams, Saunders, Grimm, or Cower the first thing we need to do is hire a GM.

i really don't care about continuity if we start over. if saunders or williams stay, it should be because the new GM, or head coach(which could still be either one) he selects, says so. leave the football decision to football people, not some cocky miilionare and his raquetball buddy.

Gibbs4Life wrote:

Please. That would be fine if

Your name is Steve S the third enough said. If we have any brains we'll do whatever it takes to keep Gibbs and let him right this ship. REMEMBER this year is the first season we haven't gone through Brunell pergatory, next year will be better, let's lose all of the rest our games and get a top 5 pick.

And just who do you suppose was the driving force behind the "Brunnel Pergatory" you speak of?

Look, aside from a player generated 5 game winning streak to end 2005 and squeak into the playoffs, we might be looking at 4 straight losing seasons under Joe Gibbs. If you will recall, it was a similar slide in 2005 that put us in that 5 and O or we don't go situation to begin with. We were 4-2 in 2005 and proceeded to lose 4 out of the next 5 games....almost a mirror image of this season, when we started week 7 at 4-2, and have lost 5 out of the past 6 games.

Sean Taylor's death and the subsequent mourning was not responsible for yesterday's loss any more than it was for the previous 4 out of 5 losses. Yesterdays loss just made it that much more difficult as the team really wanted to win one for Sean Taylor.

And the 30 yard pass to set up the FG was not responsible for the loss either. The decision to play it safe and run Portis three straight times with just about a minute left in the game set up the all too familiar ending that is now becoming Joe Gibbs NEW trademark. Portis had been shut down all game long....averaging 2 yards per carry. And what did those three running attempts gain? Exactly 6 yards, leaving us 4th and 4 and punting, instead of getting a first down and running out the clock and winning the game. The decision was made to hope and pray that the other team makes the mistakes and loses, instead of making the decision to do what it takes to win the game.

The entire second half was 3 and out, 3 and out, 3 and out. That's what allowed the Bills to hang around and win it in the end.

Have you not been watching the same games as the rest of us this year? Do you not see the distinct pattern here?

The double time out call was sad. Embarrassing, and very unfortunate. And I feel bad for Joe Gibbs. But that decision would never have been presented in the first place, had better decisions been made earlier.

Sure, you could say that it's on the o-line and our inability to run the ball. But the Bills defense dedicated themselves to stopping the run. They had their LB's rushing the gaps all day which made for no running room for Portis, and when a defense does that, you just aren't going to get much on the ground. However, that approach leaves them vulnerable in other areas for which we exploited greatly in the first half with y and Moss.

But when we get down inside the 20, that stop the run defense being employed against us is less vulnerable, and those exposed areas are greatly diminished due to the short field. Yet we continue, week in and week out, employing the same flawed philosophy on offense. We haven't changed our approach in these situations, in spite of the fact that we keep failing. It makes ZERO sense.

Gibbs has become so fixated on this philosophical approach, and so predictable, and apparently so unwulling to change, that opposing teams know what we are going to do. That's why we seem to be able move the ball at will between the 20'sin the first half, yet can't seem to score TD's. They know we are going to run close formations in the red zone, and be very conservative. This plays right to the strength of the defenses that earlier in these drives couldn't stop us. And, more often than not, we wind up shifting to this conservative approach over the entire field in the second half, which explains why those potent first half stats disappear, and we just sit back and watch the games slowly slip away.

This explains why we've lost so many games in the second half. To not recognize this is just pure blind denial.

Quietly, the players recognize this too, though they have too much personal respect for Gibbs to be openly critical....but you can bet they discuss these same things amongst themselves. So, in essence, the team has totally lost confidence in Gibbs, while remaining quiet out of their respect for him.

That frustration level is building. There are tears in that locker room, and not just tears of sadness for ST, but also tears of frustration and disappointment for being so close to being a very good team with a a 10-2 or 11-1 record save for the miscues and miscalculations of a coaching staff that can't seem to see the forest for the trees.

Talent is not the issue here. It is the failure to utilize the talent that is the problem.

And the media is being kind to Joe Gibbs out of respect also. But there is constant talk (tamed down) about the myriad of questionable decisions. You hear very little talk about such things from anywhere else in the entire league except with reference to the Redskins. And if it were anyone other than Joe Gibbs, there would be a media and fan firestorm of criticism....anyone else.

Steve Spurrier's 12-20 record in two years is not much worse than Gibbs 26-34 to date. At Spurrier's percentage, he would be 22-38 over as many games. Not a big difference really, and look what happened to Spurrier. He only got two years.

So Gibbs has definitely received special consideration because he is Gibbs. But how long is long enough? And how can one be even remotely optimistic when we keep seeing the same problems over and over, with no real change in approach to fixing them?

Well Ray, sounds like you covered all the bases.

langleyparkjoe wrote:Well Ray, sounds like you covered all the bases.

he made a lot of good points. but i don't think coaching alone will help this team.

hailskins666 wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Well Ray, sounds like you covered all the bases.

he made a lot of good points. but i don't think coaching alone will help this team.

Sure coaching alone will help this team. Might not take us to the Super Bowl but will certainly help the team - a lot. We literally are looking at 11-1 or 10-2 with nothing but BETTER IN-GAME DECISIONS BY THE COACHING STAFF as said a few posts back. No question about it.

DarthMonk