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Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:48 pm
by Montana Redskin
BnGhog wrote:All I want to know is..
WHY DOES HE CONTINUE TO MISS THE DEEP BALL?????????????
OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
WHY??????????
All we here people talking about is "he has a great deep ball", and "we have the QB to throw deep and we need to do it more".
BUT EVERYTIME WE DO THROW DEEP HE MISSED.
WHY???????
EDIT: Id also like to add that as usuall its ok for JC to overthrow Moss but when Lloyd is overthrown its all Lloyds fault.
Amen....When has he EVER hit a deep ball? We've had multiple occassions to lock a win (Phi, last week and I know others but can't name them) with one deep ball and they're always overthrown!!
If he would get that deep ball once a game, just one, we'd be sitting better than 5-3 and not going to OT in two of them.
Now we'll hear "well give him time, he's only got 15 games under his belt" well, so does Romo..
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 7:55 pm
by GSPODS
Montana Redskin wrote:BnGhog wrote:All I want to know is..
WHY DOES HE CONTINUE TO MISS THE DEEP BALL?????????????
OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
WHY??????????
All we here people talking about is "he has a great deep ball", and "we have the QB to throw deep and we need to do it more".
BUT EVERYTIME WE DO THROW DEEP HE MISSED.
WHY???????
EDIT: Id also like to add that as usuall its ok for JC to overthrow Moss but when Lloyd is overthrown its all Lloyds fault.
Amen....When has he EVER hit a deep ball? We've had multiple occassions to lock a win (Phi, last week and I know others but can't name them) with one deep ball and they're always overthrown!!
If he would get that deep ball once a game, just one, we'd be sitting better than 5-3 and not going to OT in two of them.
Now we'll hear "well give him time, he's only got 15 games under his belt" well, so does Romo..
Romo also has Britney Spears and V.D. under his belt.
I think we had better stick with J.C.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:13 pm
by hailskins666
brad7686 wrote:trying to hit any of our receivers downfield is like trying to hit the toilet on shrooms.
dude. i gotta use that.
props.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 8:25 pm
by Deadskins
Montana Redskin wrote:BnGhog wrote:All I want to know is..
WHY DOES HE CONTINUE TO MISS THE DEEP BALL?????????????
OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
WHY??????????
All we here people talking about is "he has a great deep ball", and "we have the QB to throw deep and we need to do it more".
BUT EVERYTIME WE DO THROW DEEP HE MISSED.
WHY???????
EDIT: Id also like to add that as usuall its ok for JC to overthrow Moss but when Lloyd is overthrown its all Lloyds fault.
Amen....When has he EVER hit a deep ball? We've had multiple occassions to lock a win (Phi, last week and I know others but can't name them) with one deep ball and they're always overthrown!!
If he would get that deep ball once a game, just one, we'd be sitting better than 5-3 and not going to OT in two of them.
Now we'll hear "well give him time, he's only got 15 games under his belt" well, so does Romo..
Romo has two more years in the league than JC, has not played behind a decimated O-line, has had much worse gaffes (dropped hold in playoff game, 5 INTs (2 for TDs) Vs the Bills), and has played against statistically worse defenses. I would take JC over Romo any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 9:50 pm
by welch
Are you seriously questioning the best young QB we've had on this team since . . . who? You name me a better young Redskins quarterback over the last 15 years. Name for me a better young quarterback on any team with three years or less of experience right now?
Best young QB with the Redskins since George Allen snagged Joe Theisman.
- Rypien could throw a better long pass -- more accurately -- but Rypien had other problems his first few years. Among them, he couldn't sense when to cover the ball and take the sack...tended to fumble.
- Schroeder threw about as many INTs as TDs, and couldn't resist the urge to throw harder and harder on short passes.
- Humphries always had promise and talent but only that until Gibbs put him in the Chateau Bow-wow and then exiled him to San Diego
- Shuler...I can't talk about Shuler
- Gus hit his head on the bus, and never got over it.
- Trent Green...went by so fast...
- Ramsey is not a starting NFL QB
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:20 pm
by Montana Redskin
JSPB22 wrote:Montana Redskin wrote:BnGhog wrote:All I want to know is..
WHY DOES HE CONTINUE TO MISS THE DEEP BALL?????????????
OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
WHY??????????
All we here people talking about is "he has a great deep ball", and "we have the QB to throw deep and we need to do it more".
BUT EVERYTIME WE DO THROW DEEP HE MISSED.
WHY???????
EDIT: Id also like to add that as usuall its ok for JC to overthrow Moss but when Lloyd is overthrown its all Lloyds fault.
Amen....When has he EVER hit a deep ball? We've had multiple occassions to lock a win (Phi, last week and I know others but can't name them) with one deep ball and they're always overthrown!!
If he would get that deep ball once a game, just one, we'd be sitting better than 5-3 and not going to OT in two of them.
Now we'll hear "well give him time, he's only got 15 games under his belt" well, so does Romo..
Romo has two more years in the league than JC, has not played behind a decimated O-line, has had much worse gaffes (dropped hold in playoff game, 5 INTs (2 for TDs) Vs the Bills), and has played against statistically worse defenses. I would take JC over Romo any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Nahhh, I'll take Romo over Campbell. Just about as good of legs...way higher completion %, actually throws TD's, appears to have more football smarts (so what if he blows a game or 2 himself) bottom line, cowboys are 7-1 because of him, he puts fear into defenses. campbell doesn't.
Romo would have the Skins at 7-1 right now.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:55 pm
by CanesSkins26
Montana Redskin wrote:JSPB22 wrote:Montana Redskin wrote:BnGhog wrote:All I want to know is..
WHY DOES HE CONTINUE TO MISS THE DEEP BALL?????????????
OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
WHY??????????
All we here people talking about is "he has a great deep ball", and "we have the QB to throw deep and we need to do it more".
BUT EVERYTIME WE DO THROW DEEP HE MISSED.
WHY???????
EDIT: Id also like to add that as usuall its ok for JC to overthrow Moss but when Lloyd is overthrown its all Lloyds fault.
Amen....When has he EVER hit a deep ball? We've had multiple occassions to lock a win (Phi, last week and I know others but can't name them) with one deep ball and they're always overthrown!!
If he would get that deep ball once a game, just one, we'd be sitting better than 5-3 and not going to OT in two of them.
Now we'll hear "well give him time, he's only got 15 games under his belt" well, so does Romo..
Romo has two more years in the league than JC, has not played behind a decimated O-line, has had much worse gaffes (dropped hold in playoff game, 5 INTs (2 for TDs) Vs the Bills), and has played against statistically worse defenses. I would take JC over Romo any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Nahhh, I'll take Romo over Campbell. Just about as good of legs...way higher completion %, actually throws TD's, appears to have more football smarts (so what if he blows a game or 2 himself) bottom line, cowboys are 7-1 because of him, he puts fear into defenses. campbell doesn't.
Romo would have the Skins at 7-1 right now.
Romo also has TO, Witten, Crayton, and Glenn (when healthy) to throw to. He also has a healthy offensive line, and a very effective running game. He also has a coaching staff that allows him to actually throw the ball to his weapons. JC has none of these things.
Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2007 10:59 pm
by Deadskins
Montana Redskin wrote:JSPB22 wrote:Montana Redskin wrote:BnGhog wrote:All I want to know is..
WHY DOES HE CONTINUE TO MISS THE DEEP BALL?????????????
OVER AND OVER AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!
WHY??????????
All we here people talking about is "he has a great deep ball", and "we have the QB to throw deep and we need to do it more".
BUT EVERYTIME WE DO THROW DEEP HE MISSED.
WHY???????
EDIT: Id also like to add that as usuall its ok for JC to overthrow Moss but when Lloyd is overthrown its all Lloyds fault.
Amen....When has he EVER hit a deep ball? We've had multiple occassions to lock a win (Phi, last week and I know others but can't name them) with one deep ball and they're always overthrown!!
If he would get that deep ball once a game, just one, we'd be sitting better than 5-3 and not going to OT in two of them.
Now we'll hear "well give him time, he's only got 15 games under his belt" well, so does Romo..
Romo has two more years in the league than JC, has not played behind a decimated O-line, has had much worse gaffes (dropped hold in playoff game, 5 INTs (2 for TDs) Vs the Bills), and has played against statistically worse defenses. I would take JC over Romo any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Nahhh, I'll take Romo over Campbell. Just about as good of legs...way higher completion %, actually throws TD's, appears to have more football smarts (so what if he blows a game or 2 himself) bottom line, cowboys are 7-1 because of him, he puts fear into defenses. campbell doesn't.
Romo would have the Skins at 7-1 right now.
Maybe you should become a Cowboys fan then.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:00 am
by HEROHAMO
What I want from Jason Campbell is to stop doing what he is told, and start doing what he feels he needs to do during a game. Start taking some chances and start scrambling when he sees pressure. Take a sack and dont cough the ball up.
JC's Timing with Moss on deep passes
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:22 am
by CanesSkins26
Maybe this doesn't deserve it's own thread (that's up the mods) but there have been a lot of posts lately complaining about JC's alleged problems with the deep pass so I figured this would somewhat clear that up. The two glaring misses have been overthrows to Moss. Well Gibbs said today on his radio show, in response to a question about JC's timing with Moss, that because of the leg injuries that Moss had in pre-season and during the season, they are not really able to practice deep routes with him at full speed during practice. So if they can't practice these routes in practice, and only call them in games every weeks games, there is no way that Moss and JC are going to have the type of timing necessary to complete these passes with any sort of consistency.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:28 am
by MossIsBoss88
i agree, but in that case we should use moss in the flats so he can get some YAC and throw deep to a taller reciever like caldwell
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:08 am
by die cowboys die
there is no way to evaluate the QB position when it is being forced to run a high-school passing scheme in the National Football League.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:49 am
by Gnome
Makes total sense. Posters who point a finger at JC need to take injuries into account.
Moss and ARE are hampered by injuries that have slowed them significantly in practice and games.
ey has had to play a bigger than expected role as a blocking TE due to the OL injuries and with Moss and ARE less of a threat due to their injuries he's subject to more coverage scrutiny.
Add to that that Thrash is a fantastic special teams player and run blocker but not a top line reciever.
Add to that that Caldwell and Macardell were in season roster adds and still new to the team.
Should we mention the reciever?
And what you get is a fantastic young QB with a talented but injured recieving core.
It's up to the coaches to find a work around. So far they haven't. Don't blame Jason.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:46 am
by roybus14
HEROHAMO wrote:What I want from Jason Campbell is to stop doing what he is told, and start doing what he feels he needs to do during a game. Start taking some chances and start scrambling when he sees pressure. Take a sack and dont cough the ball up.
I couldn't agree more.... With that also, I think that he needs to show more emotion in getting this offense going. Whether that be getting in guys' face after a bad play or pumping them up after big one......
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:05 am
by roybus14
I said Moss was hurt in another thread on that deep ball. He appeared to pull up at the end and didn't even make a dive at the ball. The other deep pass of note to me, was to Lloyd against GB, that had the weather conditions been better, he might have had a better chance at catching it. That ball was not way off and Lloyd was able to get two hands out to the ball. He just couldn't pull it in. The answer to the deep ball thing rests with B.Lloyd, IMO... Caldwell, McCardell, and Thrash don't have the flat out speed and our next best option besides Santana (who is hurting) is Lloyd. Play the man and send him deep....
Also, I started the "Jason Campbell" thread not as an attack on Jason but more of observation and I wanted to get the pulse of the rest of you guys. I think Jason is the guy to QB this team and I do agree that he is being bridled by Gibbs but at the same time, Jason also has to realize that he is the starting QB for this team and give this offense a spark.
One of the trademarks of our Championship teams in the past, was that we had at least one guy on the offense that was a "spark plug", mouth-piece, leader, whatever. Whether that was Joe T., Gary Clark, etc., there was one guy that pumped this offense up. ARE getting up after a big play and doing his parting of the sky hand gesture is not it. This team needs someone on that offense that is pure "energy" and is that voice on the sideline that get's guys together, talks about what can be done next, where we missed play and can get back, etc.... I feel that at this point, it should be Jason. I know his demeanor is quiet and cool but it's time for him to come out of that shell a little bit and spark this team because it's his offense to lead. Now unless they are making him feel like his job is not secure at Redskins Park (could be), he should take control of this offense, take chances and go.....
One other thing..... I watched some of the GB-KC game on NFL Replay last night and the more I watch Greg Jennings the more I'm blown away. Dude is turning into a stud and I think he is a major reason why GB and Brett Favre are rolling. He's got size and is lethal after the catch..... We need to make it a priority in the off-season to find a guy like that in the draft and part ways with some of the "older" and troubled guys we have on the receiving corp. GB (Jennings, 2nd round) and NO (Colston, late rounds) found diamonds in the rough with their young, big, and fast WRs, why can't we.... I'm sure that there will be one available from one of the smaller schools in the upcoming draft. We just have to go find him....
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 8:20 am
by Fios
Merged JC's deep throws thread with this one
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 9:38 am
by Deadskins
HEROHAMO wrote:What I want from Jason Campbell is to stop doing what he is told, and start doing what he feels he needs to do during a game. Start taking some chances and start scrambling when he sees pressure. Take a sack and dont cough the ball up.
Wow, you've really outdone yourself here.
Sentence 1: Hey Jason, take the LaVar Arrington/Brandon Lloyd approach to playing for Joe and see where that gets you!
Sentence 2: Keep doing what you are already doing, and pick up critical first downs to keep the chains moving. (2 scrambles for 31 yards and first downs Vs. the Jets)
Sentence 3: Disregard my last sentence completely. Also, stop fumbling away the ball on purpose. (3 fumbles lost Vs. the Patriots on sacks, 0 lost on sacks the rest of the season - his 1 other lost fumble this season was Vs. the G-strings on an exchange that Portis mishandled.)
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:41 pm
by skinsfan#33
die cowboys die wrote:there is no way to evaluate the QB position when it is being forced to run a high-school passing scheme in the National Football League.
*Load of crap alert!! The above post was a load of crap!*
Ask Jurgenson who is the best caoch he has ever been around and he has said, without hessitating, Vince Lombardi! You know that Lombardi ran less than a half a dozen offensive plays for like 90% of his plays. No 700 page play book. Just out execute your opponent! KISS (keep it simple stupid). It doesn't matter what plays are called and even if the defense knows what you are running, if you out execute the D, you win!
Most play books for high schools today are more complicated than Lombardi's, yet no one ever questioned how good Bart Starr could have been.
In that NFC championship against the Cowboys before SB17 the Skins ran 50 gut what 9 straight times and the OL was telling Randy White they were going to run right at him and the Cowboys couldn't stop them. The OL did the same thing in several games in 91 and did the plays work because the Skins tricked those teams? No they worked because the Skins were better than the other teams and out executed the defense.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:23 pm
by BnGhog
skinsfan#33 wrote:die cowboys die wrote:there is no way to evaluate the QB position when it is being forced to run a high-school passing scheme in the National Football League.
*Load of crap alert!! The above post was a load of crap!*
Ask Jurgenson who is the best caoch he has ever been around and he has said, without hessitating, Vince Lombardi! You know that Lombardi ran less than a half a dozen offensive plays for like 90% of his plays. No 700 page play book. Just out execute your opponent! KISS (keep it simple stupid). It doesn't matter what plays are called and even if the defense knows what you are running, if you out execute the D, you win!
Most play books for high schools today are more complicated than Lombardi's, yet no one ever questioned how good Bart Starr could have been.
In that NFC championship against the Cowboys before SB17 the Skins ran 50 gut what 9 straight times and the OL was telling Randy White they were going to run right at him and the Cowboys couldn't stop them. The OL did the same thing in several games in 91 and did the plays work because the Skins tricked those teams? No they worked because the Skins were better than the other teams and out executed the defense.
Teams just can't do that like they used to. Then the players were smokers and alcoholics, today they just smoke some mayjane and sip on steriod delight.
Guys are bigger stronger, faster than those players. You can argue that all you want. But if a D knows you are going 50 gut, you won't get more than 2 or 3 yards on them. You might could get away with it on some of these teams that have a D built for speed. Like the Colts. Our line could push their D-line around all day long. The problem is guys like Bob Sanders is fast enough to go around the line and still get to the RB before he even crosses the line. Especially if he knows its coming.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:39 pm
by GSPODS
BnGhog wrote:skinsfan#33 wrote:die cowboys die wrote:there is no way to evaluate the QB position when it is being forced to run a high-school passing scheme in the National Football League.
*Load of crap alert!! The above post was a load of crap!*
Ask Jurgenson who is the best caoch he has ever been around and he has said, without hessitating, Vince Lombardi! You know that Lombardi ran less than a half a dozen offensive plays for like 90% of his plays. No 700 page play book. Just out execute your opponent! KISS (keep it simple stupid). It doesn't matter what plays are called and even if the defense knows what you are running, if you out execute the D, you win!
Most play books for high schools today are more complicated than Lombardi's, yet no one ever questioned how good Bart Starr could have been.
In that NFC championship against the Cowboys before SB17 the Skins ran 50 gut what 9 straight times and the OL was telling Randy White they were going to run right at him and the Cowboys couldn't stop them. The OL did the same thing in several games in 91 and did the plays work because the Skins tricked those teams? No they worked because the Skins were better than the other teams and out executed the defense.
Teams just can't do that like they used to. Then the players were smokers and alcoholics, today they just smoke some mayjane and sip on steriod delight.
Are you by any chance familiar with the Raiders teams of the 1970's?
Lyle Alzado and company were taking performance enhancing drugs before most of today's players were born. The team doctor was handing steroids out like vitamins. They weren't illegal or on any banned substance list at the time.
In the 1980's, cocaine was the drug of choice. Remember Dexter Manley and Lawrence Taylor? They went to rehab, not to prison.
To state that "the players were smokers and alcoholics" is an incorrect generalization of all NFL players.
I'm not sure how any of this relates to domination of one's opponent.
You're either dominant or you aren't. Not much gray area on domination of one's opponent. See New England.
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:48 pm
by BnGhog
OK so do you think New England could have ran 50gut on us every play and scored 50 points. It wasn't their running, or their deep balls. It was the holes(mostly) in our D that they found and hit before we got to the spot
Re: Jason Campbell......
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:50 pm
by LORD GIBBS
roybus14 wrote:Does Jason Campbell have the persona or personality to lead an NFL Team???LORD give him a break man 3 weeks ago we were kissing his azz he will be fine.
Jason Campbell was inserted into the starting line late last season, spent the entire off-season working on Al Saunders play book and his technique. We are eight games into the season and it appears that Jason Campbell's calm presence and demeanor may not be what is really needed for this football team.
Why would you say that Roy?? With this offense seriously struggling, one would think that the QB would show some fire and go after guys and coaches to get this offense going. It's like JC is just happy to be behind center and is just going with the flow.
A few things you don't see from this QB that you see in some of the better QBs around the league:
1. Taking the initiative and huddling with coaches and teammates on the sideline looking at snapshots at what worked, what didn't work, and what he thinks could work. Most of the time, they show JC on the sideline sitting quietly and it's normally one of the other offensive coaches approaching him with snapshots from the previous series. At least I have not seen him huddled with Moss, ARE,
ey, etc. looking at snapshots or talking about what did or didn't work. Maybe season ticket holders on the board that have the vantage point of looking at the sideline more than the cameras can chime in.
2. Communicating with his WRs after missed routes or passes on the field. You see guys like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, and even Clemons talking to and hand gesturing to their WRs on missed plays on the field.
3. No fire or emotion when we get a big play or a bad play. If the O-Line breaks down and he get's sacked or alot of pressure, you don't see him clapping his hands or trying to encourage his linemen to block better. After a big play, you don't see him getting excited and pumping guys up. It's normally the same thing after every play; look to the sideline for the play, and give the "come-in" gesture with his fingers for the guys to huddle up. The good QBs in this league are demanding of their offensive teammates. Brady was shown screaming at his lineman when we got the one sack on him and they were blowing us out.
It's not about how young this guy is and what not. He's been annointed the starting QB job so he needs to start showing something other than going through the motions. If he speaks up in practice and says to Al or Joe, "we need to start going down field more and this offense needs to open up." What are they going to do bench him for speaking his mind? During the game, take a chance and call an audible if you see something different in the defense or you know something will open up because the CB is playing too far back. What's wrong with working more with your WRs on little hand signals and gestures that are "hot reads" and changes their route from a curl to a quick slant? It's like JC is scared to step forward.
It's just my observation..... Your thoughts.......
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:51 pm
by Fios
The quote function strikes again
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:54 pm
by GSPODS
Fios wrote:The quote function strikes again
Fios wrote:Quote
GSPODS wrote:Quote
Fios wrote:Quote
GSPODS wrote:Quote
Fios wrote:Quote
And you can quote me on that.
I see no problem with the function. Simple case of ESO, perhaps?
Re: Jason Campbell......
Posted: Wed Nov 07, 2007 5:37 pm
by Deadskins
LORD GIBBS wrote:roybus14 wrote:Does Jason Campbell have the persona or personality to lead an NFL Team???LORD give him a break man 3 weeks ago we were kissing his azz he will be fine.
Jason Campbell was inserted into the starting line late last season, spent the entire off-season working on Al Saunders play book and his technique. We are eight games into the season and it appears that Jason Campbell's calm presence and demeanor may not be what is really needed for this football team.
A few things you don't see from this QB that you see in some of the better QBs around the league:
1. Taking the initiative and huddling with coaches and teammates on the sideline looking at snapshots at what worked, what didn't work, and what he thinks could work. Most of the time, they show JC on the sideline sitting quietly and it's normally one of the other offensive coaches approaching him with snapshots from the previous series. At least I have not seen him huddled with Moss, ARE,
ey, etc. looking at snapshots or talking about what did or didn't work. Maybe season ticket holders on the board that have the vantage point of looking at the sideline more than the cameras can chime in.
2. Communicating with his WRs after missed routes or passes on the field. You see guys like Manning, Brady, Brees, Rivers, and even Clemons talking to and hand gesturing to their WRs on missed plays on the field.
3. No fire or emotion when we get a big play or a bad play. If the O-Line breaks down and he get's sacked or alot of pressure, you don't see him clapping his hands or trying to encourage his linemen to block better. After a big play, you don't see him getting excited and pumping guys up. It's normally the same thing after every play; look to the sideline for the play, and give the "come-in" gesture with his fingers for the guys to huddle up. The good QBs in this league are demanding of their offensive teammates. Brady was shown screaming at his lineman when we got the one sack on him and they were blowing us out.
It's not about how young this guy is and what not. He's been annointed the starting QB job so he needs to start showing something other than going through the motions. If he speaks up in practice and says to Al or Joe, "we need to start going down field more and this offense needs to open up." What are they going to do bench him for speaking his mind? During the game, take a chance and call an audible if you see something different in the defense or you know something will open up because the CB is playing too far back. What's wrong with working more with your WRs on little hand signals and gestures that are "hot reads" and changes their route from a curl to a quick slant? It's like JC is scared to step forward.
It's just my observation..... Your thoughts.......
Why would you say that Roy?? With this offense seriously struggling, one would think that the QB would show some fire and go after guys and coaches to get this offense going. It's like JC is just happy to be behind center and is just going with the flow.
Make sure you are at the bottom of the text, LG.