The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Fios wrote:The applause goes like this: Fan X doesn't like Lloyd = Lloyd is definitely a bust and no other factors whatsoever could have contributed to that. Conversely, if I say "well, this has not been the most stable situation and pretty much none of the wideouts have been impressive," I am blinded by my loyalty to Lloyd, therefore, I am dumb.

Thankz.


Did that cup just call me dumb

1niksder you just made the arguement against Lloyd. No other recievers have stepped up. And yet he still does nothing. There probably isn't a team in the league with more opportunity to earn a starting role right now than the Skins. Yet he has two catches for what, nine yards? That's the proof. Not all of your second guessing a Hall of Fame Coaching staff. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year when Lloyd is playing arena football. Will you guys still have a mancrush?

Gnome wrote:1niksder you just made the arguement against Lloyd. No other recievers have stepped up. And yet he still does nothing. There probably isn't a team in the league with more opportunity to earn a starting role right now than the Skins. Yet he has two catches for what, nine yards? That's the proof. Not all of your second guessing a Hall of Fame Coaching staff. It'll be interesting to see what happens next year when Lloyd is playing arena football. Will you guys still have a mancrush?

It's not a man crush it's just not blind hateing. They brought in Caldwell and the only way he dressed is because Lloyd missed a meeting. I guess he his lack off production is on BL?
McCardell has 4 catches that's on Lloyd too right.
Yoder has more receptions than Thrash.... will someone please tell me what Lloyd is thinking.
Moss is 3rd in receptions behind a KR and a TE. That too must be on Lloyd right?

1niksder wrote:Cooley has half as many receptions as our top 2 wideouts combined total.

I'm not sure exactly what this means. ey has as many receptions, on average, as our top 2 wideouts do? So...what?

No one ever complained when Novacek was the real #2 receiver on the Cowboys, and no one complains about Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates, etc. catching a lot of passes...

PulpExposure wrote:

1niksder wrote:Cooley has half as many receptions as our top 2 wideouts combined total.

I'm not sure exactly what this means. ey has as many receptions, on average, as our top 2 wideouts do? So...what?

No one ever complained when Novacek was the real #2 receiver on the Cowboys, and no one complains about Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates, etc. catching a lot of passes...

No one complained about their number 3 WR either did the. My point was we have Backup TEs and backup RBs getting more catches than our backup wideouts and the starting TE has more catches than the #2 WR. That's scheme anyway you look at it that's not the player, but because I'm not dumping on the guy I'm must be wrong. Wait I think the word was dumb. I'll be that may some of you should get dumber and you'd understand what is really going on.

1niksder wrote:

Bob 0119 wrote:

Gnome wrote:Never ceases to amaze me the loyalty peeps on this board have to Lloyd. He's done nothing. Zilch. Nada. It's laughable to blame any of this on the coaches or Jason or the gameplan. Their legacies and paychecks are on the line. You think they're playing childish games? They're worried about winning games and paying for their kids college educations. They're worried about 90K fans booing. The fact that Lloyd is still on the team and AA is gone is proof that they really, truly believed in Lloyd when push came to shove and they had the option to cut him in the offseason - to heck with the Cap - the Skins always find a money work around. They decided he was worth keeping. Now they know they should've cut him in the offseason and traded for a legit reciever. Instead, they're stuck with a wasted roster spot for 8 more weeks.

Not sure sure what the applause are for considering how far off that post is.

Because I agree with his sentiment. It’s not that I don’t like Lloyd, but it seems he’s a very polarizing figure and even I don’t know why. What has he done to deserve so much praise and credit? The only glimpses of hope I’ve seen from him were a great catch in the pre-season in ’06, and his touchdown catch in the pre-season this year. Of course, that throw was by Brunell, but I don’t see anyone lobbying for Brunell’s return.

I agree with this poster that it seems just a tad ridiculous to think that if he really is the second coming of Randy Moss, the coaches would have him in there.

here is a small clip about B Lloyd

http://s42.photobucket.com/albums/e341/ ... ure007.flv

Bob 0119 wrote:Because I agree with his sentiment. It’s not that I don’t like Lloyd, but it seems he’s a very polarizing figure and even I don’t know why.

It's because he is the object of blame and criticism from many, which both irritates people who don't agree with all of the criticism and instigates arguments when those two positions meet on a message board.

JLC's sarcastic rants, which seem to filter pretty well into the general public, don't help either.

What has he done to deserve so much praise and credit?

Please point out the "praise and credit" that he's receiving. Most of the supporters of Lloyd in this debate are basically arguing that he needs a chance to play. Is it praise and credit to say "why aren't we playing him more? He might be able to contribute!" If that's praise, then it should be obvious why at least some people feel that way, however much others like to see Lloyd as the reason this team has problems.

The only glimpses of hope I’ve seen from him were a great catch in the pre-season in ’06, and his touchdown catch in the pre-season this year.

I agree with this poster that it seems just a tad ridiculous to think that if he really is the second coming of Randy Moss, the coaches would have him in there.

It's ridiculous to think that if he was a great receiver, then the coaches would play him?

I don't see many people saying that he is a great receiver. 100% of the debate that I'm observing is over whether or not he should be getting a shot to contribute each Sunday. I don't think anyone will dispute that his career with the Redskins has been anything but disappointing and subpar in production.

Fios wrote:The applause goes like this: Fan X doesn't like Lloyd = Lloyd is definitely a bust and no other factors whatsoever could have contributed to that. Conversely, if I say "well, this has not been the most stable situation and pretty much none of the wideouts have been impressive," I am blinded by my loyalty to Lloyd, therefore, I am dumb.

I see you cleverly avoided stating your position as to whether Lloyd was a bust and there could have been no other factors or if you're dumb because you're blinded by loyalty to the guy.

Think about how many times Lloyd has been thrown to?

Now ask yourself is that really an oppurtunity to succeed?

The most he has been thrown to in a game is probably 3 times, if that.


I have not given up on Lloyd simply because I believe in giving people a fair shot to prove themselves.

Do you guys remember some time last year when Lloyd yelled at Campbell?

I think that maybe Campbell does not like Lloyd? Who knows it could explain why he is not thrown too that often.

HEROHAMO wrote:Think about how many times Lloyd has been thrown to?

Now ask yourself is that really an oppurtunity to succeed?

The most he has been thrown to in a game is probably 3 times, if that.


I have not given up on Lloyd simply because I believe in giving people a fair shot to prove themselves.

Do you guys remember some time last year when Lloyd yelled at Campbell?

I think that maybe Campbell does not like Lloyd? Who knows it could explain why he is not thrown too that often.

Your going out on a limb there, you think Jason can sneeze without asking Al to ask JG if he can? Jason, right now has no authority on anything, he goes thru his progression reads, but without familiarity with what his reciever is going to do, he'll look it off and dink and dunk lik he's told. He's had a lot of success with El cos they practiced alot during the summer.

i just don't get the argument that lloyd hasn't had a chance. he started twelve games last year as the #2 WR. TWELVE. thats a college season. how is that not getting a chance? he was mediocre at best when he was starting, and keeps sliding further and further down the depth chart. whats so confusing about that?

hailskins666 wrote:i just don't get the argument that lloyd hasn't had a chance. he started twelve games last year as the #2 WR. TWELVE. thats a college season. how is that not getting a chance? he was mediocre at best when he was starting, and keeps sliding further and further down the depth chart. whats so confusing about that?

It must be the Shrooms.

I think most Redskins Fans completely disregard last season because one player, Brandon Lloyd or otherwise, isn't going to make a 5-11 team a playoff caliber team. The glaring fact this season, which is why this is even a topic of discussion, is that there is limited production from the wide receviers on the field. For that reason only, I think the Redskins should attempt to get something out of their investment in Brandon Lloyd. If he's gone at the end of the season, so be it. The Redskins are using a half-healthy #1 in Moss and a useless #3 in Thrash. Lloyd may not help but, at this point, he certainly can't make the passing offense any more inept than it already is.

Seriously, I don't care who the slot WR is at this point.... But I'll tell you WHO IT SHOULDN'T BE!!!! It should NOT be James Thrash. The FACT that he is our slot WR is telling that NONE OF THE OTHER WR'S ARE GETTING A FAIR SHOT!

Rece Caldwell - Last years prime target for a playoff team.

Keenan - contributed more in one game against the Lions than Thrash has all year.

Lloyd -


Come on now.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Seriously, I don't care who the slot WR is at this point.... But I'll tell you WHO IT SHOULDN'T BE!!!! It should NOT be James Thrash. The FACT that he is our slot WR is telling that NONE OF THE OTHER WR'S ARE GETTING A FAIR SHOT!

Rece Caldwell - Last years prime target for a playoff team.

Keenan - contributed more in one game against the Lions than Thrash has all year.

Lloyd -


Come on now.

you never see lloyd on special teams plays.

not defending the use of thrash, but there are other ways for BL to get in the game.

caldwell. been on the team about 9 weeks.

mccardell. about 8 weeks. is that enough time to learn the offense?

thrash. 4 years, two in this offense. lloyd 2 yrs as well. but thrash has never publically admitted to taking plays off. you also don't hear any reports of thrash missing team meetings.

again, not saying that thrash is the best option to have out there, but it's not like we have 4 first round picks at WR on the bench.

i don't understand some of this teams moves(like duckett for picks, then seeing NO game time), but i just can't side with lloyd on this.

GSPODS wrote:The glaring fact this season, which is why this is even a topic of discussion, is that there is limited production from the wide receviers on the field. For that reason only, I think the Redskins should attempt to get something out of their investment in Brandon Lloyd. If he's gone at the end of the season, so be it. The Redskins are using a half-healthy #1 in Moss and a useless #3 in Thrash. Lloyd may not help but, at this point, he certainly can't make the passing offense any more inept than it already is.

And that's basically what I think about the situation as well. But ARE back in the slot, where he excels mismatched against a LB in coverage, and give Lloyd one whole game as the #2 receiver. This business of putting him in a few plays a game isn't really a fair shot. And when your best receivers are tied at 55th in the league in receptions, it's not like anyone in your passing game is standing out.

we need to get Thrash off the field.. hes great on special teams and thats where he should be.. Gibbs loyalty to players has been hurting this team since he got here..

its great that hes loyal to players but hes loyal to players like Mark Brunell and James Thrash.. both stand up guys yes but not players we should have contributing a significant amount to this offense.. he finally sat MB and now its time for JT .. we brought in Caldwell and I dont believe hes even had a ball thrown his way.. McCardell has shown that when given a chance hes a contributer too.. I just dont get what goes on with this coaching staff behind closed doors.. its mind boggling the way we use our personal..

I understand Lloyd has put himself in the doghouse but GIbbs does not seem to allow anyone the chance to get out.. I understand making him inactive for the JETS game because missing a meeting isnt acceptable but now we will probaly never see Lloyd step foot on the field unless he becomes a born again christian to make the almight Gibbs happy

its time for a 4 WR set of Moss, Lloyd, ARE( back in the slot) and Caldwell or McCardell.. at least give them a chance .. NO MORE THRASH

Irn-Bru wrote:
It's because he is the object of blame and criticism from many, which both irritates people who don't agree with all of the criticism and instigates arguments when those two positions meet on a message board.

See, I neithr blame nor applaud him. The fact is, I'm not really passionate either way about him. He hasn't done anything to make me believe that he's better than Moss or ARE.

Please point out the "praise and credit" that he's receiving. Most of the supporters of Lloyd in this debate are basically arguing that he needs a chance to play. Is it praise and credit to say "why aren't we playing him more? He might be able to contribute!" If that's praise, then it should be obvious why at least some people feel that way, however much others like to see Lloyd as the reason this team has problems.

Okay, I may have overstated the "praise and credit" part of what I said. The fact is that he does get on the field. He was the number 2 reciever behind Moss last year and started as the number 3 this year, and has slid down the chart. I have to believe that is due to something the coaches are seeing in him during practices. Perhaps the trouble is with him getting open, I don't know, but I can't recall a broadcaster, TV or otherwise, pointing out that Lloyd was ever "wide open".

It's ridiculous to think that if he was a great receiver, then the coaches would play him?

You seem to indicate that you know something I don't here. I'll admit I don't know everything, and that one of my weaker spots is that I come across like I do. I did typo and meant to say "wouldn't play him".

I don't see many people saying that he is a great receiver. 100% of the debate that I'm observing is over whether or not he should be getting a shot to contribute each Sunday. I don't think anyone will dispute that his career with the Redskins has been anything but disappointing and subpar in production.

That's just it. He is getting a shot each Sunday. Listen to Sonny Sam, and Not-Frank on the radio. They report everytime he's in there when they describe the packages. He may only get in there a few times a game, but he does get in there.

I can't say whether it's Jason's fault for not throwing to him (Brunell didn't throw to him very often either), the coaches fault for the route that he has to run, or his inability to get open (as I said, I don't hear about him getting wide open). It could be all three, but I'm going to side with the people that work with him all week as to where he belongs on the depth chart.

I personally find it hilarious that some fans think Brandon Lloyd would be a star if only the mean ol' coaches would give him a chance!

As if Brandon Lloyd is a huge talent that the coaches are allowing to languish on the bench because they hate winning football games.

Through 7 games Lloyd has caught 2 passes for 14 yards.

It's asinine to assume that the infrequency which Lloyd is used is its own problem.

Perhaps Lloyd is not performing well in practice, maybe he's not getting open, maybe he hasn't got a good relationship with Jason Campbell... regardless, if Lloyd were playing better, he'd be seeing more balls thrown his way.

Until then, I'm not really sure he should be getting looks over Moss and ARE who are playing well.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I personally find it hilarious that some fans think Brandon Lloyd would be a star if only the mean ol' coaches would give him a chance!

If Lloyd had so much as a single touchdown this season he would be a 'star' receiver on this Washington Redskins team. As of right now, he's Joe Average. Lloyd has exactly the team average of touchdown receptions by wide receivers. That average is Zero.

Secondly, Moss, Randle El and Thrash are all playing injured. Last I knew, Lloyd is healthy. So, Lloyd's got a attitude problem. Big Deal. It works for Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Chad Johnson, Steve Smith. The Redskins are already paying for his services, so give him the damn ball. Lloyd gives this team the best chance to spread the defense with the top three receivers playing injured. Unless you happen to believe that Caldwell and McCardell are deep threats.

HEROHAMO wrote:Think about how many times Lloyd has been thrown to?

Now ask yourself is that really an oppurtunity to succeed?.

Getting the ball thrown to him is the last and not first step in the process. He has to:

- Learn the plays
- Practice the plays
- Demonstrate mastery of the plays
- Demonstrate an ability to play effectively as a member of the team
- Make the coaches confident in the above
- On the field he has to be where he is supposed to be and get open

- Now, JC has to find him and deliver him the ball for the catch

His job is do do ALL of those things, not just the last one. Yes, he has had plenty of chances.

HEROHAMO wrote:Think about how many times Lloyd has been thrown to?

Now ask yourself is that really an oppurtunity to succeed?.

Uh HH, he was on the team last season, when he started 12 games as the #2 WR. He has had plenty of balls thrown his way.

Hey I can understand that BL needs to learn all that stuff in practice and ect.. but he's been here, there's really no excuse as to why he doesn't know the schemes and the plays. I mean, we really don't know jack spit about what's really going on so it must be something maybe in practice or maybe he said something to the coaches. I just know that we have Moss (hurt), ARE (hurt), Trash (who shouldn't be out there), McCardell, Cauldwell, and Lloyd.. there's absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be at least bombing the ball a couple times throughout the game. Yes I know we're gonna continue running the ball but with that said, our play actions will go a long way with those recievers because I don't see many linebackers going toe-to-toe with us. BL did real good before he got here (in the West Coast where no one knows your name) but I still think we do need to throw him a couple passes to see if he can truely catch under pressure or fold up like a cheap lawn chair from K-Mart. *lol*

GO SKINS !!! KILL DA EAGLES !!!

1niksder wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

1niksder wrote:Cooley has half as many receptions as our top 2 wideouts combined total.

I'm not sure exactly what this means. ey has as many receptions, on average, as our top 2 wideouts do? So...what?

No one ever complained when Novacek was the real #2 receiver on the Cowboys, and no one complains about Tony Gonzalez, Antonio Gates, etc. catching a lot of passes...

No one complained about their number 3 WR either did the. My point was we have Backup TEs and backup RBs getting more catches than our backup wideouts and the starting TE has more catches than the #2 WR. That's scheme anyway you look at it that's not the player, but because I'm not dumping on the guy I'm must be wrong. Wait I think the word was dumb. I'll be that may some of you should get dumber and you'd understand what is really going on.

Ok, we need to seperate what you're saying because I was only bringing this up in reference to one sentence you made.

No one complained about their number 3 WR either did the. My point was we have Backup TEs and backup RBs getting more catches than our backup wideouts

I agree with this, that's not good.

and the starting TE has more catches than the #2 WR.

I still don't see what's wrong with this. If your starting TE is your second best receiving threat, then naturally he should get the second most balls thrown to him, right?

I was specifically referring only to this quote:

Cooley has half as many receptions as our top 2 wideouts combined total.

And it doesn't bother me at all if you have a TE you consider a stud, that you throw the ball to him. I tend to think that's scheming intelligently.

Now throwing the ball to your backup TE and RB more than your WRs is assinine, but I did not refer to that statement at all. You weaken your original argument (which is the scheme sucks, which I completely agree with; it reminds me too much of the Schottenheimer offense) with the ey statement.

Good point.. lets not forget about a couple of #1 TE's like Gonzalez, Crumpler who sometimes actually carry their teams. ey's our #1 so it's all good to me.. but like you said, if Yoder gets more passes/catches than ey, yup, something's wrong. Agreed.



GO SKINS !!! KILL DA EAGLES !!!