The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

GSPODS wrote: To your original point, if J.C. were as accurate as Ken Anderson I still don't think this team would be clicking on all cylinders.

The team tried a few deep passes against Miami and he failed to deliver accurately with HEALTHY receivers.

You miss the ORIGINAL point:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I feel that the coaches do not trust the accuracy, speed and timing of Jason Campbell. They just do not trust the guy to execute. And, after a few games this season, I will tell you what: NEITHER DO I.

Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders have been criticised from all directions and with all kinds of tones for calling "conservative" games. My point is that they are NOT FOOLS. They are playing with what THEY KNOW they have: a green QB who still has a lot of work to deliver the ball:

- ACCURATELY;
- IMPROVE TIMING WITH RECEIVERS; and
- IMPROVE THE SPEED OF RELEASE.

They are working AROUND the limitations shown by Jason.

Redskin in Canada wrote:They are working AROUND the limitations shown by Jason.

The question is: are his limitations part of his lack of experience, or a lack of talent? Should we expect more next year? Or even later this season? Or was this a waste of a draft pick?

An even better question is: Why SHOULD all this rest on JC? Aren't we supposed to have a ton of weapons on offense? Why can't we find easier ways to get the ball in the hands of the 'playmakers' than 40 yard passes? Isn't that part of being an offensive genius, making do with the talent that you're given?

Mind you, I'm not defending JC here, just wondering whether JC has hit his ceiling, and whether other players or coaches can make up for his limitations.

joebagadonuts wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote:They are working AROUND the limitations shown by Jason.

The question is: are his limitations part of his lack of experience, or a lack of talent? Should we expect more next year? Or even later this season? Or was this a waste of a draft pick?

An even better question is: Why SHOULD all this rest on JC? Aren't we supposed to have a ton of weapons on offense? Why can't we find easier ways to get the ball in the hands of the 'playmakers' than 40 yard passes? Isn't that part of being an offensive genius, making do with the talent that you're given?

Mind you, I'm not defending JC here, just wondering whether JC has hit his ceiling, and whether other players or coaches can make up for his limitations.

I, for one, still don't think J.C. has started enough games for either the coaching staff or the self-proclaimed "experts" to determine whether or not J.C. has hit the ceiling of his potential.

snyder owes me a new computer keyboard too....

He owes me more high blood pressure medication.

we should file suit

hailskins666 wrote:we should file suit

You can check with Justice Hog but I have a feeling the filing fees and court costs alone, even without a lawyer, will cost more than the lost beer and paint. The court system loves ripping off its citizens.

SkinMeAlive wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:we should file suit

You can check with Justice Hog but I have a feeling the filing fees and court costs alone, even without a lawyer, will cost more than the lost beer and paint. The court system loves ripping off its citizens.

you can file for as little as twenty dollars.

proving the case, may however make it a bit unreasonable.

hailskins666 wrote:

SkinMeAlive wrote:

hailskins666 wrote:we should file suit

You can check with Justice Hog but I have a feeling the filing fees and court costs alone, even without a lawyer, will cost more than the lost beer and paint. The court system loves ripping off its citizens.

you can file for as little as twenty dollars.

proving the case, may however make it a bit unreasonable.

I'd think it would be easy to prove pain & suffering and mental anguish.

that settles it, i'm calling my attourney

Redskin in Canada wrote:

GSPODS wrote: To your original point, if J.C. were as accurate as Ken Anderson I still don't think this team would be clicking on all cylinders.

The team tried a few deep passes against Miami and he failed to deliver accurately with HEALTHY receivers.

You miss the ORIGINAL point:

Redskin in Canada wrote:I feel that the coaches do not trust the accuracy, speed and timing of Jason Campbell. They just do not trust the guy to execute. And, after a few games this season, I will tell you what: NEITHER DO I.

Joe Gibbs and Al Saunders have been criticised from all directions and with all kinds of tones for calling "conservative" games. My point is that they are NOT FOOLS. They are playing with what THEY KNOW they have: a green QB who still has a lot of work to deliver the ball:

- ACCURATELY;
- IMPROVE TIMING WITH RECEIVERS; and
- IMPROVE THE SPEED OF RELEASE.

They are working AROUND the limitations shown by Jason.

We haven't had a healthy wide receiving group all season. Moss was banged up in preseason and has not been 100% this season. And the only deep ball I remember from the Miami game was the ball that Lloyd could have caught in the endzone if he hadn't mistimed his jump.

As for the timing of his passes. I'm not sure what the problem there is, but having had ARE and Moss banged up at certain points this season is probably playing a roll in it. B Mitch made an interesting comment about this yesterday as well in postgame. He basically said that Saunders' system is based on timing and requires throwing to spot, so the qb ideally throws the ball before the receiver makes his break and has to throw into tight spaces sometimes. He then theorized that Gibbs' emphasis on not turning the ball over results in JC waiting until his receivers have created some separation, thus affecting the timing of the plays. I'm not sure if this is true, but it does make sense. For one thing, last season JC was willing to use his arm strength to throw the ball into tight spaces (see last year's game against Tampa Bay), but this year he has rarely done that and only seems to be throwing to receivers that are wide open. To me it looks like JC is thinking too long because he is afraid of turning the ball over. I don't see the same aggressiveness from his as I did last season.

CanesSkins26 wrote:B Mitch made an interesting comment about this yesterday as well in postgame. He basically said that Saunders' system is based on timing and requires throwing to spot, so the qb ideally throws the ball before the receiver makes his break and has to throw into tight spaces sometimes. He then theorized that Gibbs' emphasis on not turning the ball over results in JC waiting until his receivers have created some separation, thus affecting the timing of the plays. I'm not sure if this is true, but it does make sense.

I agree with B. Mitchell and you on this point.

Most EFFECTIVE offenses (read Pats and Colts) play the timing routes almost to PERFECTION. Jason does not seem to be able to hit his receivers in stride EVER. His passes are relatively short to medium and mostly to possession receivers (read ey, Sellers, and Yoder). or to the flat to Portis or Betts.

How frustrating its is though.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:B Mitch made an interesting comment about this yesterday as well in postgame. He basically said that Saunders' system is based on timing and requires throwing to spot, so the qb ideally throws the ball before the receiver makes his break and has to throw into tight spaces sometimes. He then theorized that Gibbs' emphasis on not turning the ball over results in JC waiting until his receivers have created some separation, thus affecting the timing of the plays. I'm not sure if this is true, but it does make sense.

I agree with B. Mitchell and you on this point.

Most EFFECTIVE offenses (read Pats and Colts) play the timing routes almost to PERFECTION. Jason does not seem to be able to hit his receivers in stride EVER. His passes are relatively short to medium and mostly to possession receivers (read ey, Sellers, and Yoder). or to the flat to Portis or Betts.

How frustrating its is though.

ey, Sellers and Yoder are all tall enough to catch those high passes, not to mention ey, Sellers, Yoder, Portis and Betts are almost always within 7 yards of the line of scrimmage. Does anyone else see a pattern developing here?

HEROHAMO wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:rookie WRs almost always suck, and free agent WRs are too expensive, especially considering how much money/cap space we're flushing down the toilet on lloyd.

front office is going to have to pull a rabbit from up their sleeve to have the WR problem fixed even within the next couple years... we can count on them! yeah, i'm sure we'll be fine...

The thing that kills me is that we dont even give Lloyd game time. At least we dont throw him the ball. I dont even want to think of cap space

For the love of God, throw the guy the ball to see if he can play. Our
WR's suck; either that or the playcalling sucks. Maybe both suck. What the hell do I know. Throw the man the ball, you idiots. (This has been an open letter to the coaches.)

Redskin in Canada wrote: Jason does not seem to be able to hit his receivers in stride EVER. His passes are relatively short to medium and mostly to possession receivers (read ey, Sellers, and Yoder). or to the flat to Portis or Betts.

I think your frustration is clouding your memory a bit. I'm in the process of rewatching the Jets game (gathering fodder for this week's drivel), and I've noticed several passes - both short-range and mid-range - where Jason was on the mark. He hit the slants well, which is a much more difficult throw than it looks like on TV, and hit some deeper patterns as well. His inaccuracy becomes much more emphasized when he misses those third down throws. I admit he has to take his game to the next level by hitting more of those critical plays, but to say that he NEVER hits his receivers in stride is bit unfair.

My assessment is that JC is playing like a quarterback who has about 15 games under his belt.

joebagadonuts wrote:

Redskin in Canada wrote: Jason does not seem to be able to hit his receivers in stride EVER. His passes are relatively short to medium and mostly to possession receivers (read ey, Sellers, and Yoder). or to the flat to Portis or Betts.

I think your frustration is clouding your memory a bit. I'm in the process of rewatching the Jets game (gathering fodder for this week's drivel), and I've noticed several passes - both short-range and mid-range - where Jason was on the mark. He hit the slants well, which is a much more difficult throw than it looks like on TV, and hit some deeper patterns as well. His inaccuracy becomes much more emphasized when he misses those third down throws. I admit he has to take his game to the next level by hitting more of those critical plays, but to say that he NEVER hits his receivers in stride is bit unfair.

My assessment is that JC is playing like a quarterback who has about 15 games under his belt.

Perhaps, even a little better. Does anyone remember John Elway's first season? Or Brett Favre's first season? Or Peyton Manning's first season? Those guys didn't exactly tear up the league in their first year as starters.

I agree, it was ugly and I personally expected more fire from our guys, after being embarrased last week. It was a bleh game, portis had a fine day but the recievers are still disappearing, and for crying out loud, if passes to cooley work in the first quarter, keep feeding the pig, let him rumble. Something needs to be done, a good shakeup or a drastic example making to get these guys off their behind. We cannot hide behind the defense and hope to win games, this is ridiculous.