The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

GSPODS wrote:What would possess you to believe there is any more fact in the newspaper than there is in JLC's blog?

Not more fact, less opinion.

Wouldn't less opinion require more fact by default? If there is no fact and no opinion there is no article or blog.

I personally have never cared for chicken little. I basically think he's a little twerp and I would tend to agree with what Fios and Irn-Bru have pointed out.

However... ... ... this isn't just coming from JLC. His blog merely lends some support / credibility to what we're already seeing from the stance taken by the coaching staff and from what we've already heard from teammates and former employers.

Lloyd isn't 100% wrong and JLC ain't 100% right, but at this point, I think most can reasonably interpret, if you will, what's going on here. Again, I maintain that I hope this gets resolved for the good of the team.

GSPODS wrote:Wouldn't less opinion require more fact by default?

No, it wouldn't.

Gnome wrote:The Skins are having the best season they've had in a decade. The team looks great.

And you guys are fretting about a reciever who stands behind two last minute signings and a journeyman on the depth chart - and who has one catch for nine yards?

Come on. Stop wasting electricity and brain cells on Lloyd.

The Skins are 3-1. Young, fast, and well coached. Focus on the reality.

Actually, I agree with this on a certain level, I do find myself spending a disproportionate amount of time discussing this. My however lies in the fact that this team sunk quite a bit of money into said receiver and, even with the injuries to the wideouts, don't seem particularly interested in recouping their investment.

SkinsFreak wrote:I personally have never cared for chicken little. I basically think he's a little twerp and I would tend to agree with what Fios and Irn-Bru have pointed out.

However... ... ... this isn't just coming from JLC. His blog merely lends some support / credibility to what we're already seeing from the stance taken by the coaching staff and from what we've already heard from teammates and former employers.

Lloyd isn't 100% wrong and JLC ain't 100% right, but at this point, I think most can reasonably interpret, if you will, what's going on here. Again, I maintain that I hope this gets resolved for the good of the team.

I agree that Lloyd has to share blame, and this might owe to my ignorance but the stuff about refusing to learn routes and cursing at secretaries just strike me as made-up and gossip, respectively. I have a really hard time believing the routes thing, why would the other receivers lobby Saunders on behalf of Brandon if that were true? And the secretary item, as someone else pointed out, is such an odd thing to include. It just smacks of "well, I heard he ..."

UK Skins Fan wrote:

Unfortunately, a lot of people who bog for a living...

English is my first language, and one of my great loves in life, but I have no idea about the verb: "to bog". Is the past tense bog or bag? I bog, you bog, they bog. I was bogging, we have been bogged.

It does seem that JLC doesn't like Brandon, but I don't see how boggers are to blame.

Boggers bog down the team with the muck that they rake.

JSPB22 wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:

Unfortunately, a lot of people who bog for a living...

English is my first language, and one of my great loves in life, but I have no idea about the verb: "to bog". Is the past tense bog or bag? I bog, you bog, they bog. I was bogging, we have been bogged.

It does seem that JLC doesn't like Brandon, but I don't see how boggers are to blame.

Boggers bog down the team with the muck that they rake.

Actually, Dan Steinberg writes the DC Sports Bog, I think it's a play on the DC swamp thing.

Fios wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:

Unfortunately, a lot of people who bog for a living...

English is my first language, and one of my great loves in life, but I have no idea about the verb: "to bog". Is the past tense bog or bag? I bog, you bog, they bog. I was bogging, we have been bogged.

It does seem that JLC doesn't like Brandon, but I don't see how boggers are to blame.

Boggers bog down the team with the muck that they rake.

Actually, Dan Steinberg writes the DC Sports Bog, I think it's a play on the DC swamp thing.

Shows what I know!

Fios wrote:It just smacks of "well, I heard he ..."

Agreed. It smacks of the same "sources" the National Enquirer is famous for citing, which is to say self-sourced.

Irn-Bru wrote:A fiery post from JLC:

Aside from his arrogance I think JLC's position is interesting, and his analysis of the money involved might be closer to the truth than I would want to admit. Still a lot of hatting going on there, even though he pretends to be the god of objectivity.

At the end of the day, I'm still behind BLloyd in this whole mess. I see the problems that JLC is pointing out, but unlike him I still think that Lloyd can contribute (as I've said in recent discussion on THN).

Since you side with Lloyd on this, I'm really curious what you have to say about following quote:

Take out the fact he had probably the worst statistical seasons of any starting WR in NFL history last year. Take out all of his off-field antics out of it - dropping f-bombs on receivers coach Stan Hixon during 2006 OTAs (yeah, his first spring practices with the team), going ballistic on Al Saunders at halftime of the New Orleans game, having at least three blow-ups around teammates on the sidelines including when he threw his helmet and was benched the next week and lost his starting just for good to Antwaan Randle El late in the year.

To me this is exactly why I can't understand the obsession of siding with Lloyd on this issue. How can you support a player that disrespects coaches, staff and just generally behaves like a petulant child without producing on the field and without so much as showing appreciation and acknowledging that he's a bigger part of the problem then he wants to let on.

Personally I find it pathetic that anybody would conclude that Lloyd is somehow being singled out and treated unfairly. It boggles the mind really.

Fios wrote:I agree that Lloyd has to share blame, and this might owe to my ignorance but the stuff about refusing to learn routes and cursing at secretaries just strike me as made-up and gossip, respectively. I have a really hard time believing the routes thing, why would the other receivers lobby Saunders on behalf of Brandon if that were true? And the secretary item, as someone else pointed out, is such an odd thing to include. It just smacks of "well, I heard he ..."

It might read like gossip but when you hear the same rumblings coming from his previous employer the 49ers, and you hear JLC striking the same chord don't you start to wonder why people seem to have a tendency to seemingly make stuff up about Lloyd?

hermitkid wrote:

Fios wrote:I agree that Lloyd has to share blame, and this might owe to my ignorance but the stuff about refusing to learn routes and cursing at secretaries just strike me as made-up and gossip, respectively. I have a really hard time believing the routes thing, why would the other receivers lobby Saunders on behalf of Brandon if that were true? And the secretary item, as someone else pointed out, is such an odd thing to include. It just smacks of "well, I heard he ..."

It might read like gossip but when you hear the same rumblings coming from his previous employer the 49ers, and you hear JLC striking the same chord don't you start to wonder why people seem to have a tendency to seemingly make stuff up about Lloyd?

Writers have to have something controversial to write about. Trusting any source to be 100% accurate is beyond foolish, even if that source is the horse's mouth. If any article was 100% truth, not to be confused with "fact", it would be a very short article. And writers are not usually permitted to write articles containing the words "I don't know" or anything to that effect. Some writers are also intentionally awful at citing the reliability of their supposed sources.

Just because something ends up in print does not mean it has so much as a shred of truth. And this particular blog is so blatantly one-sided that it has no credibility.

hermitkid wrote:

Fios wrote:I agree that Lloyd has to share blame, and this might owe to my ignorance but the stuff about refusing to learn routes and cursing at secretaries just strike me as made-up and gossip, respectively. I have a really hard time believing the routes thing, why would the other receivers lobby Saunders on behalf of Brandon if that were true? And the secretary item, as someone else pointed out, is such an odd thing to include. It just smacks of "well, I heard he ..."

It might read like gossip but when you hear the same rumblings coming from his previous employer the 49ers, and you hear JLC striking the same chord don't you start to wonder why people seem to have a tendency to seemingly make stuff up about Lloyd?

I understand the logic behind "well, there has been a problem and the only constant is Brandon." I'm not disputing the validity it's just, for me, I'd like to see this reported somewhere, (almost) anywhere else. JLC has poisoned the well too much with this topic. So now I have Brandon's word and the actions of his teammates verse whatever happened in San Francisco and the stuff JLC is reporting. And since a portion of that just doesn't seem genuine to me, I'm not willing to consider his the final word on the issue.

Loyd had 1 opportunity and he blew what happens to the 2nd it never happens. He needs a chance his only reception for 8 yards we need to give him a chance

IMO - you can always tell when JLC does not know anything about what he is "reporting" - it only happens when he writes something
And you can always tell when he's lying - he opens his mouth and moves his lips

other than that he's just a low life that likes to make up stuff about things that he doesn't know anything about

Chris Luva Luva wrote:http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=30149

Redskins.com interviews Stan Hixon and there is 0 mention of Brand Lloyd at all. None. Every other WR is mentioned. Does this lend some sort of proof to JLC's accusation...? I dunno.

To be fair in this observation: Thrash also wasn't mentioned and Moss and ARE were only mentioned as it pertained to their status for Sunday.

hermitkid wrote:Since you side with Lloyd on this, I'm really curious what you have to say about following quote:

Take out the fact he had probably the worst statistical seasons of any starting WR in NFL history last year. Take out all of his off-field antics out of it - dropping f-bombs on receivers coach Stan Hixon during 2006 OTAs (yeah, his first spring practices with the team), going ballistic on Al Saunders at halftime of the New Orleans game, having at least three blow-ups around teammates on the sidelines including when he threw his helmet and was benched the next week and lost his starting just for good to Antwaan Randle El late in the year.

First, it's either a fact that he had the worst statistical seasons of any starting WR in NFL history last year, or JLC was to lazy to check which is why he threw the word probably in there. If it's probable is doesn't make it fact. He wants you to take out the off-field stuff yet he mentions as much as he can remember

hermitkid wrote:To me this is exactly why I can't understand the obsession of siding with Lloyd on this issue. How can you support a player that disrespects coaches, staff and just generally behaves like a petulant child without producing on the field and without so much as showing appreciation and acknowledging that he's a bigger part of the problem then he wants to let on.

If all this were true why would players go to bat for him with Saunders last week, maybe because it could be more to what those "blow ups" were about that those of us on the outside (that includes JLC) have little info about. How is he supposed to acknowledge his role in this issuse to the satifaction of the fans? We don't know what goes on behnd closed doors. Consideing the Redskins limit the time reports can spend at the park during practice I doubt JLC would be privy to such information either (also doubt he'd put it out there if he did)

hermitkid wrote:Personally I find it pathetic that anybody would conclude that Lloyd is somehow being singled out and treated unfairly. It boggles the mind really.

I find it hard that anyone wouldn't considering the guys that have been brought in as depth at WR when Lloyd could simply be inserted into the lineup. That's what boggles the mind.

I've read this whole thread and I don't see how you CANNOT see at least partial validity in Lloyd being the constant in this equation. There are other variables, but I just have a hard time swallowing the concept of him doing a 180 (besides his tantrum, of course, because noone can dispute he threw his helmet in frustration/anger) and his halo blinding people at practice. The opposing view of saying Lloyd is just a victim strikes the same nerve with me as saying illegal immigrants are just victimized because they are immigrants. As I vehemently support anti-Lloyd propaganda, I have tried to be objective prior to my current stance. I just cannot see what the pro-Lloyd people see. Even if this blog has 'poisoned the well,' the well IS there and it has to have water in it to BE poisoned.

1niksder wrote:First, it's either a fact that he had the worst statistical seasons of any starting WR in NFL history last year, or JLC was to lazy to check which is why he threw the word probably in there. If it's probable is doesn't make it fact. He wants you to take out the off-field stuff yet he mentions as much as he can remember.

It's not that cut and dry - how do you define worst? For that matter, how do you define starter? It's not like he can just check a list somewhere.

Edit: With that being said, only two NFL teams featured a second wide receiver with fewer yards than Lloyd: Tampa's Michael Clayton (356) and the Giants' Amani Toomer (360). But those two guys hauled in touchdowns. I really don't think it's a stretch to say Lloyd had the worst statistical season of any starter last season. And whether he was technically the worst isn't really even the point - we can all agree 2006 was a bad year for him.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

1niksder wrote:First, it's either a fact that he had the worst statistical seasons of any starting WR in NFL history last year, or JLC was to lazy to check which is why he threw the word probably in there. If it's probable is doesn't make it fact. He wants you to take out the off-field stuff yet he mentions as much as he can remember.

It's not that cut and dry - how do you define worst? For that matter, how do you define starter? It's not like he can just check a list somewhere.

Actually, anyone can check a list. There are literally hundreds of impartial websites which list the number of starts, the number of receptions, the number of total yards, the number of touchdowns, the number of drops, and pretty much anything else you would want to know.

NFL.com has most of these. JLC is simply a blowhole who wants the world to think he has some source of inside information. He doesn't.

GSPODS wrote:Actually, anyone can check a list.

Awesome - send me the list that ranks the 2006 starting wide receivers from worst to first.

Thanks in advance for the help man, I really appreciate it. I had no idea it was so simple.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:

GSPODS wrote:Actually, anyone can check a list.

Awesome - send me the list that ranks the 2006 starting wide receivers from worst to first.

Thanks in advance for the help man, I really appreciate it. I had no idea it was so simple.

Get real. Why would I do your research for you?
You and JLC appear to live in the same vaccuum.

GSPODS wrote:You and JLC appear to live in the same vaccuum.

It appears we do.

Just in case you didn't pick up on the sarcasm in my last post, you couldn't produce that list if your life depended on it. Or ten dollars, which I'd be happy to PayPal you if you do pull it off.

Fellas, please keep it civil, thank you

Receiving Rec Yds Avg TD
Andre Johnson, HOU 103 1147 11.1 5
Mike Furrey, DET 98 1086 11.1 6
Marvin Harrison, IND 95 1366 14.4 12
Torry Holt, STL 93 1188 12.8 10
Donald Driver, GB 92 1295 14.1 8
Laveranues Coles, NYJ 91 1098 12.1 6
T.J. Houshmandzadeh, CIN 90 1081 12.0 9
Steven Jackson, STL 90 806 9.0 3
Kellen Winslow, CLE 89 875 9.8 3
Reggie Bush, NO 88 742 8.4 2
Chad Johnson, CIN 87 1369 15.7 7
Reggie Wayne, IND 86 1310 15.2 9
Terrell Owens, DAL 85 1180 13.9 13
Anquan Boldin, ARZ 83 1203 14.5 4
Steve Smith, CAR 83 1166 14.0 8
Roy Williams, DET 82 1310 16.0 7
Lee Evans, BUF 82 1292 15.8 8
Jerricho Cotchery, NYJ 82 961 11.7 6
Brian Westbrook, PHI 77 699 9.1 4
Isaac Bruce, STL 74 1098 14.8 3
Hines Ward, PIT 74 975 13.2 6
Tony Gonzalez, KC 73 900 12.3 5
Todd Heap, BAL 73 765 10.5 6
Antonio Gates, SD 71 924 13.0 9
Terry Glenn, DAL 70 1047 15.0 6
Marques Colston, NO 70 1038 14.8 8
Keyshawn Johnson, CAR 70 815 11.6 4
Javon Walker, DEN 69 1084 15.7 8
Larry Fitzgerald, ARZ 69 946 13.7 6
Derrick Mason, BAL 68 750 11.0 2
Mark Clayton, BAL 67 939 14.0 5
Wes Welker, MIA 67 687 10.3 1
Jeremy Shockey, NYG 66 623 9.4 7
Jason Witten, DAL 64 754 11.8 1
Plaxico Burress, NYG 63 988 15.7 10
Darrell Jackson, SEA 63 956 15.2 10
Joey Galloway, TB 62 1057 17.0 7
Ronald Curry, OAK 62 727 11.7 1
Randy McMichael, MIA 62 640 10.3 3
Braylon Edwards, CLE 61 884 14.5 6
Reche Caldwell, NE 61 760 12.5 4
Kevin Jones, DET 61 520 8.5 2
Frank Gore, SF 61 485 8.0 1
Muhsin Muhammad, CHI 60 863 14.4 5
Arnaz Battle, SF 59 686 11.6 3
Chris Chambers, MIA 59 677 11.5 4
Tiki Barber, NYG 58 465 8.0 0
Chris ey, WAS 57 734 12.9 6
Travis Taylor, MIN 57 651 11.4 3
Eric Moulds, HOU 57 557 9.8 1
Alge Crumpler, ATL 56 780 13.9 8
LaDainian Tomlinson, SD 56 508 9.1 3
Santana Moss, WAS 55 790 14.4 6
Marty Booker, MIA 55 747 13.6 6
Eddie Kennison, KC 53 860 16.2 5
Deion Branch, SEA 53 725 13.7 4
Ladell Betts, WAS 53 445 8.4 1
Reggie Williams, JAC 52 616 11.8 4
Rod Smith, DEN 52 512 9.8 3
Bernard Berrian, CHI 51 775 15.2 6
L. J. Smith, PHI 50 611 12.2 5
Santonio Holmes, PIT 49 824 16.8 2
Ben Watson, NE 49 643 13.1 3
Peerless Price, BUF 49 402 8.2 3
Eric Parker, SD 48 659 13.7 0
Michael Pittman, TB 47 405 8.6 0
Reggie Brown, PHI 46 816 17.7 8
Drew Bennett, TEN 46 737 16.0 3
Mewelde Moore, MIN 46 468 10.2 1
Maurice Jones-Drew, JAC 46 436 9.5 2
Jermaine Wiggins, MIN 46 386 8.4 1
Ahman Green, GB 46 373 8.1 1
Greg Jennings, GB 45 632 14.0 3
Desmond Clark, CHI 45 626 13.9 6
D. J. Hackett, SEA 45 610 13.6 4
Troy Brown, NE 43 384 8.9 4
Kevin Faulk, NE 43 356 8.3 2
Randy Moss, OAK 42 553 13.2 3
Chester Taylor, MIN 42 288 6.9 0
Matt Jones, JAC 41 643 15.7 4
Samie Parker, KC 41 561 13.7 1
Larry Johnson, KC 41 410 10.0 2
Bryant Johnson, ARZ 40 740 18.5 4
Antonio Bryant, SF 40 733 18.3 3
Joe Jurevicius, CLE 40 495 12.4 3
Kevin Curtis, STL 40 479 12.0 4
Joseph Addai, IND 40 325 8.1 1
Michael Jenkins, ATL 39 436 11.2 7
George Wrighster, JAC 39 353 9.1 3
Donte' Stallworth, PHI 38 725 19.1 5
Edgerrin James, ARZ 38 217 5.7 0
Joe Horn, NO 37 679 18.4 4
Cedrick Wilson, PIT 37 504 13.6 1
Troy Williamson, MIN 37 455 12.3 0
Ben Utecht, IND 37 377 10.2 0
Chris Henry, CIN 36 605 16.8 9
Ernest Wilford, JAC 36 524 14.6 2
Patrick Crayton, DAL 36 516 14.3 4
Keenan McCardell, SD 36 437 12.1 0
Dominic Rhodes, IND 36 251 7.0 0
Steve Heiden, CLE 36 249 6.9 2
Thomas Jones, CHI 36 154 4.3 0
Nate Washington, PIT 35 624 17.8 4
Alex Smith, TB 35 250 7.1 3
Josh Reed, BUF 34 410 12.1 2
Heath Miller, PIT 34 393 11.6 5
Owen Daniels, HOU 34 352 10.4 5
Ike Hilliard, TB 34 339 10.0 2
Eric Johnson, SF 34 292 8.6 2
Bobby Wade, TEN 33 461 14.0 2
Michael Clayton, TB 33 356 10.8 1
DeAngelo Williams, CAR 33 313 9.5 1
Ronnie Brown, MIA 33 276 8.4 0
Wali Lundy, HOU 33 204 6.2 0
Devery Henderson, NO 32 745 23.3 5
Amani Toomer, NYG 32 360 11.3 3
Antwaan Randle El, WAS 32 351 11.0 3
DeShaun Foster, CAR 32 159 5.0 0
Chris Baker, NYJ 31 300 9.7 4
Willie Parker, PIT 31 222 7.2 3
Roddy White, ATL 30 506 16.9 0
Doug Gabriel, NE/OAK 30 428 14.3 3
Dallas Clark, IND 30 367 12.2 4
Deuce McAllister, NO 30 198 6.6 0
Cadillac Williams, TB 30 196 6.5 0
Marcus Robinson, MIN 29 381 13.1 4
Bo Scaife, TEN 29 370 12.8 2
Noah Herron, GB 29 211 7.3 2
Mack Strong, SEA 29 159 5.5 0
Ashley Lelie, ATL 28 430 15.4 1
Drew Carter, CAR 28 357 12.8 3
Randal Williams, OAK 28 293 10.5 0
Vincent Jackson, SD 27 453 16.8 6
Brandon Jones, TEN 27 384 14.2 4
Alvis Whitted, OAK 27 299 11.1 0
Reuben Droughns, CLE 27 169 6.3 0
Dante Hall, KC 26 204 7.8 2
Courtney Anderson, OAK 25 285 11.4 2
Leon Washington, NYJ 25 270 10.8 0
Bubba Franks, GB 25 232 9.3 0
Jason McKie, CHI 25 162 6.5 0
Greg Lewis, PHI 24 348 14.5 2
Bobby Engram, SEA 24 290 12.1 1
Correll Buckhalter, PHI 24 256 10.7 1
Tatum Bell, DEN 24 115 4.8 0
Terrance Copper, NO 23 385 16.7 3
Brandon Lloyd, WAS 23 365 15.9 0
Justin McCareins, NYJ 23 347 15.1 1
Roscoe Parrish, BUF 23 320 13.9 2
Billy McMullen, MIN 23 307 13.3 2
Fred Taylor, JAC 23 242 10.5 1
Robert Royal, BUF 23 233 10.1 3
Kenny Watson, CIN 23 213 9.3 0
Troy Walters, ARZ 23 209 9.1 2
Marion Barber, DAL 23 196 8.5 2
Justin Griffith, ATL 23 168 7.3 3
Rudi Johnson, CIN 23 124 5.4 0

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