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Did the players go to Joe Gibbs or did they go to Al, seems to be Al's call if the players went as far as talking to a guy that wasn't even on the sidelines.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

GSPODS wrote:Why not? A core principle of Joe Gibbs' supposed religious beliefs is forgiveness. Would he hold a mistake over Brandon Lloyd's head indefinitely? Not according to his religious beliefs, so if he actually is doing what has been implied, he is placing football above religion. I can't buy that theory without additional proof. I have no religious beliefs but I know Joe Gibbs does, and I know religion controls his existence in the same way coffee controls mine. If anyone is holding a grudge against Brandon Lloyd, I don't think it's Joe Gibbs.

Are you serious? Should Joe Gibbs turn the other cheek when a team scores a TD on us? Maybe Joe should go coach the Saints. Bible study after practice?

Get for real. I know a lot of you guys don't like Christians or religion but come on, this isn't even worth discussing.

Lets fire Joe Gibbs, he's reading the Bible when he could be making plays!!

Perhaps I should have ended my posts with Sarcasm Intended

No, I was not being serious, just taking another free shot at Christianity.

I loved hearing that BL's team mates asked for BL to have a chance in the game. AND when given the chance, he took a 2 yard pass and added another 7 yards himself.

There must be a whole lot going on here for Gibbs to say what he said. It can not be all about the one interception - it must be about the OTA, preseason, practice. Other players have messed up and have gotten another chance.

Seeing BL taking responsibility for his actions (or inactions as the case may be) is encouraging, and I hope a turning point for BL. He has such a talent that it would be a shame not to utilize it. I hope JG takes this positively and increases the playing time for BL. After all, Lloyd has caught more passes this season than Caldwell.

1niksder wrote:Did the players go to Joe Gibbs or did they go to Al, seems to be Al's call if the players went as far as talking to a guy that wasn't even on the sidelines.

I believe the information posted by the Cup Of Knowledge (Fios) states the players went to Al Saunders.

Gnome wrote:BL is the real deal not Keenan, those were lucky grabs and Campbell was being a snob and playing favorites. .

Honestly brotha, please tell me you didn't say that Campbell was being a snob and playing favorites. Judging from what I've seen, his favorite was even suited up for the game. BL was open and he completed the pass to him, BL out of the game was all about the coaching staff. I'm not going to say those receivers are equal but we had this same problem with Patten.

GSPODS wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

GSPODS wrote:Why not? A core principle of Joe Gibbs' supposed religious beliefs is forgiveness. Would he hold a mistake over Brandon Lloyd's head indefinitely? Not according to his religious beliefs, so if he actually is doing what has been implied, he is placing football above religion. I can't buy that theory without additional proof. I have no religious beliefs but I know Joe Gibbs does, and I know religion controls his existence in the same way coffee controls mine. If anyone is holding a grudge against Brandon Lloyd, I don't think it's Joe Gibbs.

Are you serious? Should Joe Gibbs turn the other cheek when a team scores a TD on us? Maybe Joe should go coach the Saints. Bible study after practice?

Get for real. I know a lot of you guys don't like Christians or religion but come on, this isn't even worth discussing.

Lets fire Joe Gibbs, he's reading the Bible when he could be making plays!!

Perhaps I should have ended my posts with Sarcasm Intended

No, I was not being serious, just taking another free shot at Christianity.

Well don't get upset with me. MOST people insert emoticons into their posts to show sarcasm. Some people insert hidden text like TRO. Fios and Redskin1 make their text real small to show sarcasm.

Emotions are not easily understood through simple words.

GSPODS wrote:

Secondary_Chaos wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:I also don't think Gibbs is being childish to want his players to show extra effort and hustle to work their way out of his dog house. It's good that Brandon can understand the criticism, and is willing to work to correct it.

Well, considering the fact that Gibbs hasn't even given BL the chance to work his way out of JGs dog house is a sign to me Gibbs is being childish. The fact that you are praising the WR CORPS for pushing to get BL in the game shows that Gibbs isnt even giving him the time of day. Isnt that the job of the coach to give the player the opportunity, not the teamates? I think when BL admits he doesnt really know why he hasnt played much goes to show it is a bit childish on Gibbs' part. Even though he won 3 SBs for us, JG can be wrong and act in an immature fashion at times.

This post questions Joe Gibbs' religious beliefs. By this school of thought, Joe Gibbs is placing either personal prejudice or his belief that the team is better without Brandon Lloyd above his religious beliefs of "being a 'good Christian'". I'm not ready to jump on this accusation just yet.

The heck are you talking about? How in God's name does the question JGs religious beliefs? I dont agree with the approach JG has taken to this whole situation. Injuries or not, it seems to me as though they arent rushing to get BL on the field. I think the injury excuse is a weak one. JG needs to get over it and see that BL realizes what he did and he is now ready more than ever to prove to everyone the kind of reciever he is.


*In no way is this post meant to question, alter, or otherwise look down upon any individuals religios beliefs and/or preferences.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

GSPODS wrote:Why not? A core principle of Joe Gibbs' supposed religious beliefs is forgiveness. Would he hold a mistake over Brandon Lloyd's head indefinitely? Not according to his religious beliefs, so if he actually is doing what has been implied, he is placing football above religion. I can't buy that theory without additional proof. I have no religious beliefs but I know Joe Gibbs does, and I know religion controls his existence in the same way coffee controls mine. If anyone is holding a grudge against Brandon Lloyd, I don't think it's Joe Gibbs.

Are you serious? Should Joe Gibbs turn the other cheek when a team scores a TD on us? Maybe Joe should go coach the Saints. Bible study after practice?

Get for real. I know a lot of you guys don't like Christians or religion but come on, this isn't even worth discussing.

Lets fire Joe Gibbs, he's reading the Bible when he could be making plays!!

Perhaps I should have ended my posts with Sarcasm Intended

No, I was not being serious, just taking another free shot at Christianity.

Well don't get upset with me. MOST people insert emoticons into their posts to show sarcasm. Some people insert hidden text like TRO. Fios and Redskin1 make their text real small to show sarcasm.

Emotions are not easily understood through simple words.

No problems here. I made the mistake of assuming everyone knows how sarcastic I am when it comes to religion. I'll make a better effort to be clear about intended sarcasm from here forward.

To quote UFC and Boxing referrees... "I'm FIRM but I'm FAIR"

I think JG is all that. And BL will get his chance. They are being FIRM right now sending a message but he will get his FAIR chance.. ey needs to tug on campbells jersey too, I miss the big guy rumbling down the sidelines, althoug I kinda like this "finesse" catches that he's showing. I like what we have in the team, a whole lotta potential everywhere, JC will benefit from this situation. I like how Bloyd has something to prove and has the skills to prove it.

1niksder wrote:Did the players go to Joe Gibbs or did they go to Al, seems to be Al's call if the players went as far as talking to a guy that wasn't even on the sidelines.

That don't mean that its Al's call, just because they went to Al.

Maybe Gibbs would not listen to what they had to say, and it took Al asking Joe to make it happen.

However it happened, it happened and it needs to keep happening.

GSPODS wrote:

Secondary_Chaos wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:I also don't think Gibbs is being childish to want his players to show extra effort and hustle to work their way out of his dog house. It's good that Brandon can understand the criticism, and is willing to work to correct it.

Well, considering the fact that Gibbs hasn't even given BL the chance to work his way out of JGs dog house is a sign to me Gibbs is being childish. The fact that you are praising the WR CORPS for pushing to get BL in the game shows that Gibbs isnt even giving him the time of day. Isnt that the job of the coach to give the player the opportunity, not the teamates? I think when BL admits he doesnt really know why he hasnt played much goes to show it is a bit childish on Gibbs' part. Even though he won 3 SBs for us, JG can be wrong and act in an immature fashion at times.

This post questions Joe Gibbs' religious beliefs. By this school of thought, Joe Gibbs is placing either personal prejudice or his belief that the team is better without Brandon Lloyd above his religious beliefs of "being a 'good Christian'". I'm not ready to jump on this accusation just yet.

I'm not sure where you see anyone questioning Joe's religious beliefs, but Brandon said he asked Joe what he had to do, and Joe told him "work harder." That sounds to me like he IS giving him a chance to work his way out of the dog house. Not necessarily during games, but at least during practice, Brandon has to show that he is willing to put in the extra effort to get back in his good graces. I think he's doing that now, and it will pay off if he keeps it up. Think about how Joe praises Clinton Portis for his work ethic when he's not touching the ball. He wants that from all 53 guys. The other players went to Al, because Al is calling the plays from the booth. Simple as that.

JSPB22 wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

Secondary_Chaos wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:I also don't think Gibbs is being childish to want his players to show extra effort and hustle to work their way out of his dog house. It's good that Brandon can understand the criticism, and is willing to work to correct it.

Well, considering the fact that Gibbs hasn't even given BL the chance to work his way out of JGs dog house is a sign to me Gibbs is being childish. The fact that you are praising the WR CORPS for pushing to get BL in the game shows that Gibbs isnt even giving him the time of day. Isnt that the job of the coach to give the player the opportunity, not the teamates? I think when BL admits he doesnt really know why he hasnt played much goes to show it is a bit childish on Gibbs' part. Even though he won 3 SBs for us, JG can be wrong and act in an immature fashion at times.

This post questions Joe Gibbs' religious beliefs. By this school of thought, Joe Gibbs is placing either personal prejudice or his belief that the team is better without Brandon Lloyd above his religious beliefs of "being a 'good Christian'". I'm not ready to jump on this accusation just yet.

I'm not sure where you see anyone questioning Joe's religious beliefs, but Brandon said he asked Joe what he had to do, and Joe told him "work harder." That sounds to me like he IS giving him a chance to work his way out of the dog house. Not necessarily during games, but at least during practice, Brandon has to show that he is willing to put in the extra effort to get back in his good graces. I think he's doing that now, and it will pay off if he keeps it up. Think about how Joe praises Clinton Portis for his work ethic when he's not touching the ball. He wants that from all 53 guys.

I totally understand where you are coming from, but I disagree. B Lloyd has been like this from week 1 when the whole thing went down. I think the injury thing is a weak excuse and a cover up for Gibbs. I mean, really, what has BL done so wrong that he is deserving of losing ALL playing times in a game? What has he done that has made the FO go and sigh TWO more recievers? I think this is a personal issue between the two and this is Gibbs' childish and immature way of 'showing who's boss'. BL even admitted he knows his own fate come seasons end. IF I turn out to be correct, I will be calling for Gibbs to step down if he cant handle is personnel in a more professional manner. I just know that if things arent resolved between the two, and it looks to me as though BL trying as much as he can on his end, then we will see him go to some other team and post huge number and have us scratching our heads and wondering what the hell happened...

SKINFAN wrote:To quote UFC and Boxing referrees... "I'm FIRM but I'm FAIR"

U sure thats not a quote from one of those dirty movies you rented with your remote?

I really hope that Brandon can contribute to this team. I would love him to turn it around.

Thanks Fios for the thread. I missed it this morning. Ive been watching him after CP or ey score and he is right there given high fives and stuff. You would think a guy who is being passed up for guys that were signed last week would be just sitting on the bench. And I love the other teammates wanted him in. Thats really good.

Secondary_Chaos wrote:I think this is a personal issue between the two and this is Gibbs' childish and immature way of 'showing who's boss'. BL even admitted he knows his own fate come seasons end. IF I turn out to be correct, I will be calling for Gibbs to step down if he cant handle is personnel in a more professional manner.

You will be calling for a coach who has taken this team to 4 SBs, winning three of them, to step down over a #3 receiver not getting playing time? I think Joe has demonstrated that his method of "showing who's boss" works. He's had plenty of egos to deal with over the years, and has handled it with aplomb. If players don't want to do it his way, then it's the highway for them, and that's good enough for me. I think I'll give Joe the benefit of the doubt on this one.

JSPB22 wrote:

Secondary_Chaos wrote:I think this is a personal issue between the two and this is Gibbs' childish and immature way of 'showing who's boss'. BL even admitted he knows his own fate come seasons end. IF I turn out to be correct, I will be calling for Gibbs to step down if he cant handle is personnel in a more professional manner.

You will be calling for a coach who has taken this team to 4 SBs, winning three of them, to step down over a #3 receiver not getting playing time? I think Joe has demonstrated that his method of "showing who's boss" works. He's had plenty of egos to deal with over the years, and has handled it with aplomb. If players don't want to do it his way, then it's the highway for them, and that's good enough for me. I think I'll give Joe the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Why wouldn't that be legitimate? As he said, IF it turned out Gibbs was allowing personal bias to come before on-field success (and no one is saying he is, he's speaking hypothetically) that would certainly make me question whether he's the right fit. A large part of the problem here has been Gibbs failure to explain any of this thus far, so we're left to speculate, rightly or wrongly.

Fios wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

Secondary_Chaos wrote:I think this is a personal issue between the two and this is Gibbs' childish and immature way of 'showing who's boss'. BL even admitted he knows his own fate come seasons end. IF I turn out to be correct, I will be calling for Gibbs to step down if he cant handle is personnel in a more professional manner.

You will be calling for a coach who has taken this team to 4 SBs, winning three of them, to step down over a #3 receiver not getting playing time? I think Joe has demonstrated that his method of "showing who's boss" works. He's had plenty of egos to deal with over the years, and has handled it with aplomb. If players don't want to do it his way, then it's the highway for them, and that's good enough for me. I think I'll give Joe the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Why wouldn't that be legitimate? As he said, IF it turned out Gibbs was allowing personal bias to come before on-field success (and no one is saying he is, he's speaking hypothetically) that would certainly make me question whether he's the right fit. A large part of the problem here has been Gibbs failure to explain any of this thus far, so we're left to speculate, rightly or wrongly.

Good point Fios....

I'm sure that everyone would love to give JG the benefit of the doubt but let's all remember that this is not the exact same JG that left here many years ago. He missed an entire decade of coaching and interacting with players and coaches on a daily basis. People can and sometimes do change over time. It's been evident over the past couple of seasons that this is not the same JG based on some of the decisions he's made and the one thing that was his staple that is missing, halftime adjustments.

There are numerous things that many of us could point out about JG that was not there back in the day but why? It's not going to change anything. He's either going to lead us to a championship or he's not. Life will go on next year and the year after next and the years after that. It's not up to us the fans on whether or not he should step down. That's his and DS's call. In the meantime, his coaching and how he handles situations is what it is and hopefully it doesn't stop us from winning another championship. Is his handling BLloyd cruddy? Maybe but right now we are 3-1 and improving every week and that's what we all want right????

Fios wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

Secondary_Chaos wrote:I think this is a personal issue between the two and this is Gibbs' childish and immature way of 'showing who's boss'. BL even admitted he knows his own fate come seasons end. IF I turn out to be correct, I will be calling for Gibbs to step down if he cant handle is personnel in a more professional manner.

You will be calling for a coach who has taken this team to 4 SBs, winning three of them, to step down over a #3 receiver not getting playing time? I think Joe has demonstrated that his method of "showing who's boss" works. He's had plenty of egos to deal with over the years, and has handled it with aplomb. If players don't want to do it his way, then it's the highway for them, and that's good enough for me. I think I'll give Joe the benefit of the doubt on this one.

Why wouldn't that be legitimate? As he said, IF it turned out Gibbs was allowing personal bias to come before on-field success (and no one is saying he is, he's speaking hypothetically) that would certainly make me question whether he's the right fit. A large part of the problem here has been Gibbs failure to explain any of this thus far, so we're left to speculate, rightly or wrongly.

This might be out of left field but has anyone mentioned that Joe Gibbs does a pretty decent job of tolerating Tony Stewart's propensity for screwing up in NASCAR? Wouldn't one be inclined to think he handles football issues with the same tolerance level? Joe does have total control of his race team, and if he wanted the problems gone they would be gone. I was under the impression Joe also has carte blanche with the Redskins and if he truly wanted Brandon Lloyd inactive for the remainder of the season, Lloyd would be inactive for the remainder of the season. There are still a few receivers available if the Redskins really wanted to make Brandon Lloyd a dead issue. I don't think they do.
This should be a $0.01 thought but there is no $0.01 emoticon.

GSPODS wrote:This might be out of left field but has anyone mentioned that Joe Gibbs does a pretty decent job of tolerating Tony Stewart's propensity for screwing up in NASCAR? Wouldn't one be inclined to think he handles football issues with the same tolerance level? Joe does have total control of his race team, and if he wanted the problems gone they would be gone. I was under the impression Joe also has carte blanche with the Redskins and if he truly wanted Brandon Lloyd inactive for the remainder of the season, Lloyd would be inactive for the remainder of the season. There are still a few receivers available if the Redskins really wanted to make Brandon Lloyd a dead issue. I don't think they do.
This should be a $0.01 thought but there is no $0.01 emoticon.

First off, his son is the one who deals with the team while JG is coaching. Second off, I see Tony do NUMEROUS things that arent tolerated in NASCAR, but i dont see fines or suspensions or 'benchings' for him. And thats because he (Tony) gives the team the best chance to win. As would BL if JG would give him that chance. But NASCAR and the NFL are two different monsters (coached by two different Gibbs..) I still believe, whether you agree or not, that this is an issue with Gibbs and not BL. And I love JG to death, but those championships were over a DECADE ago.. what has he brought us since then? so that is a moot point in this discussion. I think he may have lost his edge. I will be the first to admit i was wrong come this offseason if the WR corps isnt a thorn in our sides due to the BL issue...

Well, his return hasn't been as spectacular as we all hoped but the team did go to the playoffs two years ago so it's unfair to act as if he's done nothing. He also got JC and Rocky McIntosh and CP. Don't let a momentary frustration cloud the overall picture.

Secondary_Chaos wrote:

GSPODS wrote:This might be out of left field but has anyone mentioned that Joe Gibbs does a pretty decent job of tolerating Tony Stewart's propensity for screwing up in NASCAR? Wouldn't one be inclined to think he handles football issues with the same tolerance level? Joe does have total control of his race team, and if he wanted the problems gone they would be gone. I was under the impression Joe also has carte blanche with the Redskins and if he truly wanted Brandon Lloyd inactive for the remainder of the season, Lloyd would be inactive for the remainder of the season. There are still a few receivers available if the Redskins really wanted to make Brandon Lloyd a dead issue. I don't think they do.
This should be a $0.01 thought but there is no $0.01 emoticon.

First off, his son is the one who deals with the team while JG is coaching. Second off, I see Tony do NUMEROUS things that arent tolerated in NASCAR, but i dont see fines or suspensions or 'benchings' for him. And thats because he (Tony) gives the team the best chance to win. As would BL if JG would give him that chance. But NASCAR and the NFL are two different monsters (coached by two different Gibbs..) I still believe, whether you agree or not, that this is an issue with Gibbs and not BL. And I love JG to death, but those championships were over a DECADE ago.. what has he brought us since then? so that is a moot point in this discussion. I think he may have lost his edge. I will be the first to admit i was wrong come this offseason if the WR corps isnt a thorn in our sides due to the BL issue...

J.D. manages the day-to-day operations. Joe Gibbs has the final say with Joe Gibbs Racing. Joe Gibbs has the final say with the Redskins as well. The Danny thinks Joe can do no wrong. You may be right as far as this being a personal issue. I'm just finding it hard to believe Joe Gibbs is that type of person. I suppose I'd like to hear Joe Gibbs' side of the story now that we've heard Brandon Lloyd's side.

I suppose I'd like to hear Joe Gibbs' side of the story now that we've heard Brandon Lloyd's side.

And, therin lies the rub. Whether this is a personal grudge, a disciplinary action, a response to an injury, or the decision of another coach, what you will hear from Gibbs has already been heard. Basically, you have one side... and some have accepted that as the gospel...

so to speak.

I suspect there is more to the story.

I believe we will never know what it is.

I suggest we sit back and watch it play out. Gibbs has never been anything other than a class act. There is nothing tangible to indicate that this has changed.

I have a feeling that BL will get more opportunities... it is up to him to make it impossible to make him disappear again.

Countertrey wrote:

I suppose I'd like to hear Joe Gibbs' side of the story now that we've heard Brandon Lloyd's side.

And, therin lies the rub. Whether this is a personal grudge, a disciplinary action, a response to an injury, or the decision of another coach, what you will hear from Gibbs has already been heard. Basically, you have one side... and some have accepted that as the gospel...

so to speak.

I suspect there is more to the story.

I believe we will never know what it is.

I suggest we sit back and watch it play out. Gibbs has never been anything other than a class act. There is nothing tangible to indicate that this has changed.

I have a feeling that BL will get more opportunities... it is up to him to make it impossible to make him disappear again.

How are we supposed to argue if you keep making sense?
I agree entirely with your post.