Brandon Lloyd situation looks worse and worse...

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Post by 1niksder »

CanesSkins26 wrote:Obviously the passing game is struggling. Maybe that's why JC and the receivers were staying late after practice. Apparently Lloyd couldn't be bothered to stay late. You say Lloyd could help the team and JC if he got a chance but the best way for that to happen is if he puts in the time with JC. Skipping out on extra work isn't going to endear him to Gibbs or JC.

He was the only receiver to spend time with JC in the off season (a lot more time than was spent Monday) and what did that get him :?
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Post by CanesSkins26 »

1niksder wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:Obviously the passing game is struggling. Maybe that's why JC and the receivers were staying late after practice. Apparently Lloyd couldn't be bothered to stay late. You say Lloyd could help the team and JC if he got a chance but the best way for that to happen is if he puts in the time with JC. Skipping out on extra work isn't going to endear him to Gibbs or JC.

He was the only receiver to spend time with JC in the off season (a lot more time than was spent Monday) and what did that get him :?


Are you sure about that?

From his decision to commit two vacation weeks this July — they'll be spent throwing to his receivers at wideout Santana Moss' Miami home — before training camp to his sharper reads and passes, Campbell has made impressive sacrifices and strides this offseason.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2007-05-27-sw-jason-campbell_N.htm
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Post by 1niksder »

CanesSkins26 wrote:
1niksder wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:Obviously the passing game is struggling. Maybe that's why JC and the receivers were staying late after practice. Apparently Lloyd couldn't be bothered to stay late. You say Lloyd could help the team and JC if he got a chance but the best way for that to happen is if he puts in the time with JC. Skipping out on extra work isn't going to endear him to Gibbs or JC.

He was the only receiver to spend time with JC in the off season (a lot more time than was spent Monday) and what did that get him :?


Are you sure about that?

From his decision to commit two vacation weeks this July — they'll be spent throwing to his receivers at wideout Santana Moss' Miami home — before training camp to his sharper reads and passes, Campbell has made impressive sacrifices and strides this offseason.


http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/redskins/2007-05-27-sw-jason-campbell_N.htm

He never made it to Miami... the only time he spent with any receivers was during the QB Challenge
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Post by Britskin »

There are 2 sides to this discussion which are concerning - personally I am really disappointed with the impact that Al Saunders has had on our offense. We only ever seem to complete to Santana Moss, Randel-El and Chris. When watching other possibly less talented teams they seem to involve a greater number of WRs. I really don`t see that our offense is much more effective now than it was when Joe called all the offensive plays and we went to the playoffs 2 seasons ago. Sure we`re probably better running the ball with both Portis and Betts available but throwing I haven`t noticed much improvement. Granted we`re going to be hurt by losing Jansen and Thomas but still - I keep waiting for Al Saunders offense to explode and its still limping.

The other concern is Lloyd - to use an Aussie expression , he`s been on the outer for 12 months now. Also he`s been battling shin splints since pre-season. Fitness and attitude are probably the issues here. He`s not Joe`s sort of man - there can really only be one result unless he grasps any more chances he gets - starting now.
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Post by SkinsJock »

I agree, there are two sides to a story and in many cases when it involves the local media and our team there are even more than that - we all know that the Post especially has an axe to grind here and our misfortunes the last few years have only added to that agenda.

Look, I'm not saying that Lloyd isn't a bit of a disapointment but in the NFL not all players have the ability to just go to a team and be the same, or better, than they were elsewhere - look at Randy Moss and Archuleta :shock: Moss was a risk that the Patriots felt was worth taking - they only had to give up a 4th rounder for him :? that is because he was only worth that to the team that had him :lol: Arch, never worked out here but IMO that was not entirely his fault.

Moss never worked out with Brady this past training camp as he was injured but from what we have seen these 2 look like setting new passing records. Sometimes players just gel together and the system they are in - this however is not always the case - this is a team game and individual stars, when they move to another team, will only be able to help that team if they fit with the other players around them, AND, almost as important the system that team uses.

In my opinion, Lloyd has demonstrated to Gibbs and Saunders, that he can be a contributor and all I'm saying is that he will be given more opportunities because of that - IF Campbell does not get better (or quicker) at reading the defenses, then no amount of pass catching ability is going to help Lloyd or any other WR

I just think that the "circumstances" with Lloyd have contributed to the local guys blowing it out of proportion as they are wont to do. My 2 cents
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Post by JansenFan »

CanesSkins26 wrote:
I'm with 1niksder on this, mainly, there is no one on this team that is doing very well with our passing game, begining with the guy calling the plays, then the guy who "reportedly" worked very hard during the off season to be both really up to speed with the playbook and also worked with all the WRs so he would be able to get the ball to anyone then on to the guys who catch the ball - well, those guys have not had a lot of passes that they could catch but I do know that we need to have a much more effective passing game and that is certainly not all B Lloyd's fault.
Actually, I think he could help both Campbell and the team if he got some chances to show what he is capable of Laughing


Obviously the passing game is struggling. Maybe that's why JC and the receivers were staying late after practice. Apparently Lloyd couldn't be bothered to stay late. You say Lloyd could help the team and JC if he got a chance but the best way for that to happen is if he puts in the time with JC. Skipping out on extra work isn't going to endear him to Gibbs or JC.


These seems like a lot of assuming on your part. Do you actually know why he missed the extra session, or are you just a hater who assumes the worst every chance you get?
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Post by redskins_89 »

I like Brandon Loyd i think he is a great player and he just needs some more time thats all because remember last year at preseason on first kick off and brandon loyd made that awsome diving catch he just needs some time and no pressure so it wont get worse
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Post by SKINFAN »

Everyone will be peaches and cream as long as they are winning IMO, look at TO and McNabb. They were buddies up until they started losing. I don't know about you guys, but it is great having Bloyd sitting and watching, staying fresh. I think we will need him later on in the season. Even if he's in a reduced role now, who else has a backup 3rd (maybe 4th) string WR that has his potential?

I'm not googly eyed impressed on what he has or hasn't done. I just think we are stuck with him for now, and bashing him will not make a difference.

It will get worse before it gets better, this is he Redskin way.


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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

While I would like to see Brandon prove the haters wrong (I always like a good underdog story), I think that the idea of his lack of productivity being related to poor QB play (last year by MB(insert whichever year is most insultin here)) has completely been shot down since he now has a better QB (JC), and still won't beat out ARE for the second WR spot.

I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt that he's misunderstood, but at some point, he has to look around and realize that 52 other guys probably take as much crap as he does, yet they find a way to work hard and impress the coaches enough to play them.

Could it be that Brandon is just being outworked by "lesser" talent? My 2 cents
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Post by BossHog »

SkinsJock wrote:I agree, there are two sides to a story and in many cases when it involves the local media and our team there are even more than that - we all know that the Post especially has an axe to grind here and our misfortunes the last few years have only added to that agenda.

Look, I'm not saying that Lloyd isn't a bit of a disapointment but in the NFL not all players have the ability to just go to a team and be the same, or better, than they were elsewhere - look at Randy Moss and Archuleta :shock: Moss was a risk that the Patriots felt was worth taking - they only had to give up a 4th rounder for him :? that is because he was only worth that to the team that had him :lol: Arch, never worked out here but IMO that was not entirely his fault.

Moss never worked out with Brady this past training camp as he was injured but from what we have seen these 2 look like setting new passing records. Sometimes players just gel together and the system they are in - this however is not always the case - this is a team game and individual stars, when they move to another team, will only be able to help that team if they fit with the other players around them, AND, almost as important the system that team uses.

In my opinion, Lloyd has demonstrated to Gibbs and Saunders, that he can be a contributor and all I'm saying is that he will be given more opportunities because of that - IF Campbell does not get better (or quicker) at reading the defenses, then no amount of pass catching ability is going to help Lloyd or any other WR

I just think that the "circumstances" with Lloyd have contributed to the local guys blowing it out of proportion as they are wont to do. My 2 cents


:celebrate:

I stay out of most Brandon Lloyd conversations, because frankly i see so little 'knowledge' that it isn't worth the time and aggravation.

But you hit the nail on the head, and that is worth applauding.

Funny how nobody talks about how retarded an organization is to spend $30 million on a player and not even give him a chance to be successful or unsuccessful.

Funny how nobody talks about the fact that throwing money away has become a mainstay. Gee, the last time the Redskins wasted a whack of money on a guy that they dog-housed and then dumped was all the way back in... oh yeah, last year. See Adam Archuletta.

Awesome personnel decisions. But rather than rave here, I'll perhaps blog it.

Kudos to you SkinsJock for being able to remove the rhetoric and hate-mongering harbored by the press, and reaching some very sound judgments by yourself.

Personally I'm astounded that this hasn't got ugly yet, and if it does, well, you have to sleep in the beds you make.

While I'm sure it will be seen as biased, I think it's a real credit to Brandon that he still hasn't said anything, or bitched and complained, I watch him continually do his best to be a good teammate. I see guys like LT piping off in SD, and Leinart in Arizona, and I know that prima donna me first attitudes are everywhere and we just haven't seen it from Brandon.

And the Redskins just keep giving him more and more cause and opportunity.

The Redskins proved last year that when they 'dog-house' you - how you're playing, how you can help the team, your particular skill set - have nothing to do with the decision to ostracize you. They just dig their heels in and make a pariah of you. Everybody gives Gibbs, Williams, Saunders carte blanche for the treatment, and rationalizes the decision to burn money like paper. All the while, the Redskins get nothing out of an investment, and the team suffers on the field.

Hoping you can slot in a Caldwell or a McCardell isn't a smart football decision... stop being a third grade bully, let by gones be by gones and do what's right for the football team.

My 2 cents
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Post by 1niksder »

BossHog wrote:While I'm sure it will be seen as biased, I think it's a real credit to Brandon that he still hasn't said anything, or bitched and complained, I watch him continually do his best to be a good teammate.

That can't be true, He's a malcontent, locker room issuse just waiting to happen, he's already pissed everyone off.

Just asked the fans :twisted:
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Post by spenser »

1niksder wrote:The Skins are ranked 30th in attempts and 32nd in completions


Conservative scared offense and play calling. Playing not to lose, instead of playing to win. Not having a Killer instinct. IMO
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Post by 1niksder »

spenser wrote:
1niksder wrote:The Skins are ranked 30th in attempts and 32nd in completions


Conservative scared offense and play calling. Playing not to lose, instead of playing to win. Not having a Killer instinct. IMO


Or it could be playing with a patchwork offensive line, using your top wideout and running back even though they're both limping and a OC that likes to run 4 receiver sets but doesn't have four receivers.
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Post by SKINFAN »

1niksder wrote:
spenser wrote:
1niksder wrote:The Skins are ranked 30th in attempts and 32nd in completions


Conservative scared offense and play calling. Playing not to lose, instead of playing to win. Not having a Killer instinct. IMO


Or it could be playing with a patchwork offensive line, using your top wideout and running back even though they're both limping and a OC that likes to run 4 receiver sets but doesn't have four receivers.


+ young QB, still getting his feet wet. Has a huge Cannon but the sights need adjusting...
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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

BossHog wrote:Funny how nobody talks about how retarded an organization is to spend $30 million on a player and not even give him a chance to be successful or unsuccessful.


You're wrong there, BH. People have mentioned that, only it gets drowned out by the rest of us who think it is ridiculous for a player making $30 million over the life of his contract to not step up and play like one. My 2 cents

BossHog wrote:Brandon that he still hasn't said anything, or bitched and complained, I watch him continually do his best to be a good teammate. I see guys like LT piping off in SD, and Leinart in Arizona, and I know that prima donna me first attitudes are everywhere and we just haven't seen it from Brandon.


I may be wrong, but $30 million makes some nice hush money. :lol:


Also, those guys (LT & Leinart) are team leaders (whether perceived or not), and "mouth-off" because of their intense passion for the game, and the desire to either a) advance their careers (leinart) or b) restore the winning tradition (LT). Brandon hasn't done either in his NFL career, so perhaps it's not his place to do so anyway. My 2 cents
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Post by JansenFan »

Posted out of the rearend as usual, eh. LT can speak out to try and get back that winning tradition, but if B. Lloyd were to (which he has not, while re-iterating that he wants to do best for the team) he's not allowed to. At the same time, it's all his fault that he never saw the balluntil the fourth quarter in the first game, once in the second and never again.

:roll:
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Post by skinsfan#33 »

Bob 0119 wrote:Lloyd really hasn't been productive for us at all. He's been given the oppurtunity to be the go-to guy, he just doesn't take it.

I think this week may be the end for him. If Caldwell and McCardell play, and can be productive, I think the team will take the cap hit and cut him.

I don't think he has any trade value at this point, he hasn't done anything to show he's worth anything.

John Riggins was interviewing a radio guy from San Fran who was laughing at us for taking Lloyd almost as much as we are laughing at San Diego for taking Norv.


They got a pick for AA. Who's to say they couldn't get one for LL.
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Post by skinsfan#33 »

SkinsJock wrote:
Bob 0119 wrote:Lloyd really hasn't been productive for us at all. He's been given the oppurtunity to be the go-to guy, he just doesn't take it.

I think this week may be the end for him. If Caldwell and McCardell play, and can be productive, I think the team will take the cap hit and cut him.

I don't think he has any trade value at this point, he hasn't done anything to show he's worth anything.

John Riggins was interviewing a radio guy from San Fran who was laughing at us for taking Lloyd almost as much as we are laughing at San Diego for taking Norv.


I understand where your are coming from but I would ask why you think "He's been given the opportunity to be the go-to guy..."? I think most here would like to think that he get a few more opportunities in an actual game than what we have seen this year before we want to see him gone. I think he can help these guys as he has demonstrated a better ability to catch the balls that most others would not have a prayer of catching - I just want to see him drop some balls that are thrown near him and then I'll agree with you BUT this guy has not been given many opportunities so far this season.


BTW welcome to the site and enjoy the Redskins this season.


He has had the same chance as ARE. When BL and ARE came to the Skins, the team high high hopes for both, wanted both, and thought more of BL. He was, if you remember correctly anoited the #2 guy as soon as he got here. The first 9 games last year he was on the field more than any other WR, even Moss. So I don't know how antone can seriously say he hasn't had a chance. He has more of a chance than ARE, but ARE's performance has warranted him playing more! BL's performance has warranted him playing less!

The young man has had a chance!
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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

JansenFan wrote:Posted out of the rearend as usual, eh.


Kissin' Brandon's as usual, eh? :wink:

JansenFan wrote:LT can speak out to try and get back that winning tradition, but if B. Lloyd were to (which he has not, while re-iterating that he wants to do best for the team) he's not allowed to. At the same time, it's all his fault that he never saw the balluntil the fourth quarter in the first game, once in the second and never again.


That doesn't justify the man's lack of ability to even catch a cold.

Putting your podcasting biases to one side, could it be that Lloyd is in fact a bust?

I willing to admit he's not being given a fair shake, but are you be able to consider the possibility of your boy not being all that he thinks he is?
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:I willing to admit he's not being given a fair shake, but are you be able to consider the possibility of your boy not being all that he thinks he is?


It's impossible to conclude until he gets a fair shake.
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Post by JansenFan »

How can he be a bust if he hasn't been given a fair shake? It can't be both. And to whomever said he's been on the field more than anyone else, it doesn't matter if you never come off the field if you don't get the ball. He was "thrown" to about 54 times last year and had 23 catches. Unfortunately, he dropped around 3 but the other "drops" we uncatchable.

Now addressing both people, IF he was thrown to 5 or 6 catchable balls a game, I would be able to make a decision. But he's not, and when he is thrown the ball, it's late in the game after not getting a look all day.

I just find it ludicrous how far people go out of their way to bash a guy on our own team. I feel the same way when people go out of their way to bash Brunell, who, whether the end results were great, gave it his all on every play. Brad Johnson gave it his all on every play, only to be Jeff George'd out of town.

The fact of the matter is, there isn't enough information to decide whether Lloyd is a bust, but it doesn't stop supposed fans from calling him names.

And one last point, the only bearing that doing the B.Lloyd show has on any of this, is I have first hand knowledge of the guy and what he's been through. I know personal things about his time, both in SF and here, that I can't share because they were spoken off the record and in confidence. I also now have a much better understanding of what players in general have to deal with. The B. Lloyd Show is irrelevant anyway. We decided not to do it this year so that he could concentrate on football. Oh but wait. JLC said something different, so what do I know.
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Post by CanesSkins26 »


It's impossible to conclude until he gets a fair shake.


How do we know that he isn't getting a fair shake? If he isn't getting the job done in practice (as CP suggested last week) then why should he see the field on Sundays? To me being given a fair shake means getting a chance in practice to earn playing time. If that hasn't happened then the Skins need to get their act together. But just because Lloyd isn't getting playing time doesn't mean that he hasn't gotten a fair shake.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

CanesSkins26 wrote:

It's impossible to conclude until he gets a fair shake.


How do we know that he isn't getting a fair shake? If he isn't getting the job done in practice (as CP suggested last week) then why should he see the field on Sundays? To me being given a fair shake means getting a chance in practice to earn playing time. If that hasn't happened then the Skins need to get their act together. But just because Lloyd isn't getting playing time doesn't mean that he hasn't gotten a fair shake.


I agree that if you don't practice well, you shouldn't get much playing time.

But look at the offense as a whole. We have 0 catches from any other WR outside of Moss and ARE. We've played 3 games and thrown 10's of passes and not one has been caught/thrown to another WR.

I'm not defending the dude but let's get off of this Gibbs is a mini-god state of mind and can do no wrong.
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Post by VetSkinsFan »

Sometimes, life isn't fair. Maybe this is one of those times for Lloyd. The FACT is that he HASN'T performed. If he "hasn't gotten enough balls his way" or "hasn't been given a fair shake" is really irrelavent. He's NOT performed with the opportunities he's been given. Couple tha twith his adolescent temper tantrum last year, and that's why he's in the situation he's in. If he were to convice the coaching staff otherwise, then he wouldn't be in this predicament. Look how long Ade Jimoh lasted. If he can do it that long, anyone can with the right attitude.
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