The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Fios wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I don't see why Skins fans get so attached to a single player. I said in my post that Jansen probably still deserves to start, but some of us reply with Rolly Eyes when its suggested that we should ......SAY draft for the FUTURE?

Our entire O-Line is over 30, so if we don't draft replacements now...we're gonna have to spend HIGH dollars in FA trying to sign vets to fill these positions.

Anyone want to spend 45 million on Derrick Dockery?? Maybe some of us would. It's not being fickle, its being real. Even Joe Jacoby had to move to guard in his later years. After playing nearly a decade in the NFC east along the Offensive line of a usually run first team, it will take a toll on your body.

Jansen has endured a torn an Achilles, broken two thumbs, and wears a rubber brace on his elbows...I guess is the correct response whenever someone suggests that he's not the player he used to be.

"Rolly eyes" come when a poster suggests Jansen "rededicate" himself. Questioning his work ethic got the reply it deserved

You're right. His off season work regimen is second to none as evidence by his superior physical tools relative to other players his age. How could I have been so silly.

Let us not forget the Bill Parcells interview echoing the same sentiments that others see...Jansen getting pushed back alot.

His "inside source" is usually a sock puppet.

I won't deny anything outright, but I'm guessing that quote (well, that report of a summary of a quote) really needs to be taken in context. . .and shouldn't be considered an endorsement of Wade over Jansen by the players. They may have been addressing something very specific or have been contrasting an injured Jansen to a healthy Wade, etc.

SkinsFreak wrote:

Posted at 9:52 PM ET, 03/14/2007
Todd Wade - It's Getting Close
Hey there. I know that the NFL Network is reporting a deal with Wade is done. And I don't doubt it will get done (I think I had him at least tied for the highest score in America's Next Top Dock a while back). But I have multiple sources on both sides of the negotiations telling me that as of 11 pm ish Wed. night, they were very close but had not in fact agreed to terms.

So I got's to go with that. Have to play it safe and go with what I know. I do believe they will get a multi-year deal done by Thursday.

Several players said privately that facing Wade in practice last season was often more difficult than going against starting tackle Jon Jansen, and Wade's return, when coupled with the re-signing of Mike Pucillo, would give Washington solid depth at vital positions.

Wade (6-foot-8, 317 pounds) was originally selected 53rd overall by Miami in 2000 and was signed to a hefty contract by Houston in 2004, including a $10-million bonus. He started 13 games for the Texans that season but suffered a career-threatening knee injury in 2005, and was signed by the Redskins last September. He recovered fully from the knee problems and, should the sides complete a multi-year deal as expected, could fill a crucial role in 2007.

Per Jason La Confora

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... n&start=10

I bow down to your internet prowess!!!!

Irn-Bru wrote:His "inside source" is usually a sock puppet.

I won't deny anything outright, but I'm guessing that quote (well, that report of a summary of a quote) really needs to be taken in context. . .and shouldn't be considered an endorsement of Wade over Jansen by the players. They may have been addressing something very specific or have been contrasting an injured Jansen to a healthy Wade, etc.

Oh, I agree. But only the d-line knows for sure.

I think the important thing to note here is that Wade has returned to his natural tackle position, thus giving us solid depth if Jansen goes down.

Redskins Rule wrote:

redskin1 wrote:Looking at the 2008 cap numbers we might want to use AT LEASE half those picks on O-line in general.
Jansen, 8,833,000
Thomas, 8,756,000

Are you sure your numbers are right? I could have sworn that Jansen and Thomas both signed extensions right before the draft this year...............I only ask because it makes no sense to have two guys have 8 million dollar cap hits in the second year of their extension.

Yep
That's what happens when you keep pushing money into the future, sooner or later the player will want thier monies and it will have to be put in the early years with shorter extentions. Unlike mose contract that have high Bonus hits the early years and higher bases down the road, Thomas and JJ have deals that almost completely opposite. Samuels on the other hand has re-worked his deal so many times to free up space it's will always be a high number.

The Hogster wrote:

Fios wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I don't see why Skins fans get so attached to a single player. I said in my post that Jansen probably still deserves to start, but some of us reply with Rolly Eyes when its suggested that we should ......SAY draft for the FUTURE?

Our entire O-Line is over 30, so if we don't draft replacements now...we're gonna have to spend HIGH dollars in FA trying to sign vets to fill these positions.

Anyone want to spend 45 million on Derrick Dockery?? Maybe some of us would. It's not being fickle, its being real. Even Joe Jacoby had to move to guard in his later years. After playing nearly a decade in the NFC east along the Offensive line of a usually run first team, it will take a toll on your body.

Jansen has endured a torn an Achilles, broken two thumbs, and wears a rubber brace on his elbows...I guess is the correct response whenever someone suggests that he's not the player he used to be.

"Rolly eyes" come when a poster suggests Jansen "rededicate" himself. Questioning his work ethic got the reply it deserved

You're right. His off season work regimen is second to none as evidence by his superior physical tools relative to other players his age. How could I have been so silly.

Let us not forget the Bill Parcells interview echoing the same sentiments that others see...Jansen getting pushed back alot.

I eagerly await the results of your in-depth study of this matter

patjam77 wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

Posted at 9:52 PM ET, 03/14/2007
Todd Wade - It's Getting Close
Hey there. I know that the NFL Network is reporting a deal with Wade is done. And I don't doubt it will get done (I think I had him at least tied for the highest score in America's Next Top Dock a while back). But I have multiple sources on both sides of the negotiations telling me that as of 11 pm ish Wed. night, they were very close but had not in fact agreed to terms.

So I got's to go with that. Have to play it safe and go with what I know. I do believe they will get a multi-year deal done by Thursday.

Several players said privately that facing Wade in practice last season was often more difficult than going against starting tackle Jon Jansen, and Wade's return, when coupled with the re-signing of Mike Pucillo, would give Washington solid depth at vital positions.

Wade (6-foot-8, 317 pounds) was originally selected 53rd overall by Miami in 2000 and was signed to a hefty contract by Houston in 2004, including a $10-million bonus. He started 13 games for the Texans that season but suffered a career-threatening knee injury in 2005, and was signed by the Redskins last September. He recovered fully from the knee problems and, should the sides complete a multi-year deal as expected, could fill a crucial role in 2007.

Per Jason La Confora

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... n&start=10

I bow down to your internet prowess!!!!

Unfortunately, Sunday's aren't practice.

Fios wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

Fios wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I don't see why Skins fans get so attached to a single player. I said in my post that Jansen probably still deserves to start, but some of us reply with Rolly Eyes when its suggested that we should ......SAY draft for the FUTURE?

Our entire O-Line is over 30, so if we don't draft replacements now...we're gonna have to spend HIGH dollars in FA trying to sign vets to fill these positions.

Anyone want to spend 45 million on Derrick Dockery?? Maybe some of us would. It's not being fickle, its being real. Even Joe Jacoby had to move to guard in his later years. After playing nearly a decade in the NFC east along the Offensive line of a usually run first team, it will take a toll on your body.

Jansen has endured a torn an Achilles, broken two thumbs, and wears a rubber brace on his elbows...I guess is the correct response whenever someone suggests that he's not the player he used to be.

"Rolly eyes" come when a poster suggests Jansen "rededicate" himself. Questioning his work ethic got the reply it deserved

You're right. His off season work regimen is second to none as evidence by his superior physical tools relative to other players his age. How could I have been so silly.

Let us not forget the Bill Parcells interview echoing the same sentiments that others see...Jansen getting pushed back alot.

I eagerly await the results of your in-depth study of this matter

Study just released. Titled Reality. As time passes, you get older, eventually your skills diminish. Age, it happens to everyone, even people we like. Hope this helps.

JansenFan wrote:

patjam77 wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

Posted at 9:52 PM ET, 03/14/2007
Todd Wade - It's Getting Close
Hey there. I know that the NFL Network is reporting a deal with Wade is done. And I don't doubt it will get done (I think I had him at least tied for the highest score in America's Next Top Dock a while back). But I have multiple sources on both sides of the negotiations telling me that as of 11 pm ish Wed. night, they were very close but had not in fact agreed to terms.

So I got's to go with that. Have to play it safe and go with what I know. I do believe they will get a multi-year deal done by Thursday.

Several players said privately that facing Wade in practice last season was often more difficult than going against starting tackle Jon Jansen, and Wade's return, when coupled with the re-signing of Mike Pucillo, would give Washington solid depth at vital positions.

Wade (6-foot-8, 317 pounds) was originally selected 53rd overall by Miami in 2000 and was signed to a hefty contract by Houston in 2004, including a $10-million bonus. He started 13 games for the Texans that season but suffered a career-threatening knee injury in 2005, and was signed by the Redskins last September. He recovered fully from the knee problems and, should the sides complete a multi-year deal as expected, could fill a crucial role in 2007.

Per Jason La Confora

http://www.the-hogs.net/forum/viewtopic. ... n&start=10

I bow down to your internet prowess!!!!

Unfortunately, Sunday's aren't practice.

Exactly right. It simply could have been that Jansen wasn't going 100% in practice and Wade was going all out trying to impress the coaches.

I believe Jansen will do just fine. I think he actually looks to be in better shape this year. Wade adds solid depth if needed.

The Hogster wrote:Study just released. Titled Reality. As time passes, you get older, eventually your skills diminish. Age, it happens to everyone, even people we like. Hope this helps.

I read a study that says, a person needs less sleep as they get older. A baby needs like 20 and an old guy can go off of 4.

Hope that helps, I mean thats got to help.

The Hogster wrote:

Fios wrote:

The Hogster wrote:

Fios wrote:

The Hogster wrote:I don't see why Skins fans get so attached to a single player. I said in my post that Jansen probably still deserves to start, but some of us reply with Rolly Eyes when its suggested that we should ......SAY draft for the FUTURE?

Our entire O-Line is over 30, so if we don't draft replacements now...we're gonna have to spend HIGH dollars in FA trying to sign vets to fill these positions.

Anyone want to spend 45 million on Derrick Dockery?? Maybe some of us would. It's not being fickle, its being real. Even Joe Jacoby had to move to guard in his later years. After playing nearly a decade in the NFC east along the Offensive line of a usually run first team, it will take a toll on your body.

Jansen has endured a torn an Achilles, broken two thumbs, and wears a rubber brace on his elbows...I guess is the correct response whenever someone suggests that he's not the player he used to be.

"Rolly eyes" come when a poster suggests Jansen "rededicate" himself. Questioning his work ethic got the reply it deserved

You're right. His off season work regimen is second to none as evidence by his superior physical tools relative to other players his age. How could I have been so silly.

Let us not forget the Bill Parcells interview echoing the same sentiments that others see...Jansen getting pushed back alot.

I eagerly await the results of your in-depth study of this matter

Study just released. Titled Reality. As time passes, you get older, eventually your skills diminish. Age, it happens to everyone, even people we like. Hope this helps.

Nope, I meant this one:

The Hogster wrote:His off season work regimen is second to none as evidence by his superior physical tools relative to other players his age.

1) Who are the other players?
2) What are your criteria?

Note that nowhere, once, ever did I question that age does have an impact on play, nor have I suggested that the Redskins simply plan on starting Jansen for the next 400 years.

From a NY Times article from last year....

Then he resumes his study of the Washington Redskins, looking for player weaknesses and strategic tendencies. His greatest fear is the threat posed by Redskins wide receiver Santana Moss. One way to deal with Moss — the conservative solution — is to assign two defensive backs to cover him at all times. But that leaves one fewer defender to cover other receivers, tackle running backs or rush the quarterback. Parcells decides he would rather risk having cornerback Terence Newman cover Moss man to man. When the Cowboys are in man-to-man coverage, Newman will go where Moss goes. Parcells points out Redskins right tackle Jon Jansen. “This is Jansen getting pushed back,” he says. “He doesn’t look like the player he was a couple of years ago.” The right side of the Redskins’ line seems to have trouble with twists. If Newman can cover Moss long enough, Jansen won’t be able to hold off Greg Ellis or Marcus Spears, the Cowboys’ pass rushers he has to block.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/sports/playmagazine/1029play_parcells.html?ei=5088&en=cd475c257228379a&ex=1319778000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

From the Washington Post...

Jansen, meanwhile, is fighting for his reputation. Earlier this season, he was angered by Cowboys Coach Bill Parcells's belief that he had lost a step, and other key talent evaluators in the NFL say Jansen has been pushed back this season more than any other season in his career.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/25/AR2006112500598.html

In two games against Washington, Dallas managed seven sacks. Six of those came in the week 2 loss, Spears and Ellis each had one. In the second contest, the Redskins allowed only one sack. One. If Jansen is, in fact, the weak link Parcells thinks he is, why wasn't he able to exploit that match-up later in the season? Yes, the offensive line had gelled into a more cohesive unit by that point but, if that works against Jansen in the second scenario, it works for him in the first. In fact, after those six sacks in week two, the Redskins allowed only 12 ... for the rest of the season. Explain to me how a team with a weakness at right tackle only allows 12 sacks over a 14-game stretch. Then explain how that same team finishes fourth in the league in rushing. Let's be clear, I would very much like to see the team draft some more young offensive lineman but the reports of Jansen's demise are greatly exaggerated.

Fios wrote:In two games against Washington, Dallas managed seven sacks. Six of those came in the week 2 loss, Spears and Ellis each had one. In the second contest, the Redskins allowed only one sack. One. If Jansen is, in fact, the weak link Parcells thinks he is, why wasn't he able to exploit that match-up later in the season? Yes, the offensive line had gelled into a more cohesive unit by that point but, if that works against Jansen in the second scenario, it works for him in the first. In fact, after those six sacks in week two, the Redskins allowed only 12 ... for the rest of the season. Explain to me how a team with a weakness at right tackle only allows 12 sacks over a 14-game stretch. Then explain how that same team finishes fourth in the league in rushing. Let's be clear, I would very much like to see the team draft some more young offensive lineman but the reports of Jansen's demise are greatly exaggerated.

We were doing fine with the quotes and links, What's with the numbers?

Jansen played an entire season with two broken thumbs. He's a gamer. Pre-season is no mans land, you can't gauge n e thing except that boonell sucks and thats only because we've known that for years.

CanesSkins26 wrote:From a NY Times article from last year....

Then he resumes his study of the Washington Redskins, looking for player weaknesses and strategic tendencies. His greatest fear is the threat posed by Redskins wide receiver Santana Moss. One way to deal with Moss — the conservative solution — is to assign two defensive backs to cover him at all times. But that leaves one fewer defender to cover other receivers, tackle running backs or rush the quarterback. Parcells decides he would rather risk having cornerback Terence Newman cover Moss man to man. When the Cowboys are in man-to-man coverage, Newman will go where Moss goes. Parcells points out Redskins right tackle Jon Jansen. “This is Jansen getting pushed back,” he says. “He doesn’t look like the player he was a couple of years ago.” The right side of the Redskins’ line seems to have trouble with twists. If Newman can cover Moss long enough, Jansen won’t be able to hold off Greg Ellis or Marcus Spears, the Cowboys’ pass rushers he has to block.

The funny part is "if Newman can cover Moss long enough" Do any of you know what long enough is? any line will eventually give if a QB is sitting back holding the ball. It's called a coverage sack. Someone call Bill and explain this.

1niksder wrote:

Fios wrote:In two games against Washington, Dallas managed seven sacks. Six of those came in the week 2 loss, Spears and Ellis each had one. In the second contest, the Redskins allowed only one sack. One. If Jansen is, in fact, the weak link Parcells thinks he is, why wasn't he able to exploit that match-up later in the season? Yes, the offensive line had gelled into a more cohesive unit by that point but, if that works against Jansen in the second scenario, it works for him in the first. In fact, after those six sacks in week two, the Redskins allowed only 12 ... for the rest of the season. Explain to me how a team with a weakness at right tackle only allows 12 sacks over a 14-game stretch. Then explain how that same team finishes fourth in the league in rushing. Let's be clear, I would very much like to see the team draft some more young offensive lineman but the reports of Jansen's demise are greatly exaggerated.

We were doing fine with the quotes and links, What's with the numbers?

Yeah, what's up with the stupid facts.

But i think your math is off just a bit, Fios. We gave up 19 sacks last year. 19-6=13. Not 12

You should not anger the cup

I don't think anyone doubts that Jansen is a player, gamer, and tough guy. But honestly, at some point he won't be there.

Most of us agree that he is still the best RT on our team, the difference is some of us recognize objectively that Jansen has not looked like the Jon Jansen that was a borderline Pro-Bowl tackle.

Sorry that some people interject reason and think that maybe, just maybe, his age and injuries are catching up with him, and that we should consider drafting O-Line next year.

It matters very little how much we love a guy, the NFL is a short lived career and your attachments to people should be as well.

I'm sure Jansen will be a mainstay at least in our area. He does a lot of media shows on the Skins, and like Brian Mitchell, Joe Jacoby and other Skins it appears he will be with us for years to come. So if you're gonna miss him when he's gone, turn on the radio.

Oh yes, we're all blinded by our love for Jansen like small children, enamored of some mythical father figure. It's so good of you to elighten the rest of us. What a pretentious post.

Fios wrote:Oh yes, we're all blinded by our love for Jansen like small children, enamored of some mythical father figure. It's so good of you to elighten the rest of us. What a pretentious post.

Fios brings the lid down!

1) Who are the other players?

Several players who are older than Jansen, who additionally made their first Pro Bowl appearances in the mid- to late stages of their career, or played at a high level as they aged.

Jansen while a good player, has gotten steadily less effective. There was a time where he was a fringe Pro Bowl player. Right now, he's nowhere near that level of play and other players in his age range have maintained and in some cases raised their level of play.

One obvious explanation is the level of wear and tear on his body. For many years he didn't miss a game, and played through several injuries. After a while, that catches up with you. Neither you, nor I know what his off season workout regimen is, however, if you listen to ANY older player, they say to a man that as you get older you have to change how you prepare your body in the offseason.

Now, I think I am giving Jansen the benefit of the doubt by suggesting that maybe he is at the stage where he should try a different approach to his physical conditioninng, RATHER than assuming that his skills are diminished.

He's a good player, but he hasn't looked like the same player. Sorry if that hurts the feelings of some.



Chris Samuels -> Is in superior shape and has arguably improved over his 7 years in the league.

Alan Faneca - 10 year Vet (still dominant)

Walter Jones - 11 yr vet

Mike Wahle - 10 yrs made first Pro Bowl in 2005, his 8th year.

Jeff Hartings - 11 year vet, retired while still dominant. Perenial pro bowl

Tarik Glenn - first pro bowl in 2005 his 7th year - retired at dominant level

Larry Allen - no need to even explain. Dominant, old, and still wins the NFL strongest man competition consistently.

Ray Brown - Dominant player until he was 40, and has himself stated that he prolonged his career by changing how he prepared in the offseason.


Maybe you will complain that Jansen was never this caliber of player. You have your opinion , I have my own. I happen to believe that Jansen at one point was on the cusp of being that kind of player, however, it hasn't materialized for him for whatever reason. Maybe he can revive his career and make a case for being one of the dominant guys at his position, however to many people, a Hall of Famer included, believe that he has not looked like the same player.

AGAIN: EVEN AT HIS CURRENT LEVEL, I still think he is the best RT on our team and deserves to start, however at some point, we can't blindly hang on to this guy and expect him to be dominant into his mid to late 30's when he's not even dominant now.

Parcells decides he would rather risk having cornerback Terence Newman cover Moss man to man. When the Cowboys are in man-to-man coverage, Newman will go where Moss goes. Parcells points out Redskins right tackle Jon Jansen. “This is Jansen getting pushed back,” he says. “He doesn’t look like the player he was a couple of years ago.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/29/sports/playmagazine/1029play_parcells.html?ei=5088&en=cd475c257228379a&ex=1319778000&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=all

Fios wrote:Oh yes, we're all blinded by our love for Jansen like small children, enamored of some mythical father figure. It's so good of you to elighten the rest of us. What a pretentious post.

It appears that way when the panties get in a knot when someone even hints that maybe he's lost a step.

patjam77 wrote:OK guys... First off, let me say I have always been a huge Jon Jansen fan. I watched him at Michigan and was eleated when the Skins' drafted him. He's been a true warrior for this team. I'm afraid though, his time has run out as a starter. He again almost got Campbell killed last night. He's gotten beat continuously this preseason. I'm sorry but I have to start the push for Wade to start at right tackle. It's been well publicized that Wade looked better in practice last year and I'm sure once healthy he would again. Jansen does OK run blocking but his pass blocking is pretty bad right now. I know that this is sacrilegious to most of you but what do you guys think?

Flame away.

Mods, if this topic has already been visited in another thread, I apologize.

Maybe our boy patjam77 was on to something. BTW - once again, in today's Washington Post:

"Internally, some coaches and players believed Wade's skills were comparable to Jansen's, perhaps even superior in certain nuances of pass protection,"

Kinda wish we'd signed Dock long term 2 years ago. Didn't. Kinda wish the guard experiment had been with Jansen. Wasn't. Glad we got Kendall.

DarthMonk