The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Darn it. The wet blankets have arrived.




How are we supposed to head off into unrealistic flights of fancy with you people hovering around. Go away. Leave us to fantasize and set our selves up for months of hopelessness and doom. Geeze, Louise...

Reason and logic have no place at our table. We are trying to take advantage of another team here... be vewy vewy quiet..... Atlanta is going to take the hit, AND give us a second rounder...

I would trade Brunell to the Falcons for a bag of footballs and a ham sandwhich and know I got the better deal.

Redskin in Canada wrote:

BossHog wrote:For people asking about the cap, we've ALREADY paid Brunell $3.5M this year... that's gone no matter what... we owe him $3M more if we trade him (but it would be in the form of dead cap in 2008.)

The other team only picks up annual salaries in a trade, the original team eats all of the guaranteed bonus money.

UNLESS, the negitiation itself takes into consideration thse factors and compensate for them.

So, is this trade IMPOSSIBLE??? Not at all. Difficult, for sure. Impossible? Not at all.

Is this trade desirable? Yes! It is time for Brunell to have a fresh start elsewhere. It is time that this team looks itself in the mirror and acknowledges that to have picked him was the worst decision ever made by Joe Gibbs in his second tenure. We have had enough torture already.

Re-negotiating is virtually impossible due to the number of times that Mark has already re-done his contract. I know it's easy for people to forget but this is SIGNING BONUS money... it's owed to Mark whether people like it or not. That also means that you can't just expect to work it into the negotiations - unless Atlanta had a player that had a SIMILAR cap charge that they were sending the other way, or Brunell just decided to forego all money owed to him by Washington by completely dumping his deal (still don't even know if that's feasible at this point), you COULDN'T work it into the deal.

And you're likely asking Mark Brunell to give up millions of dollars.

I'm not saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE because the Redskins have made STUPID cap decisions in the past that made NO SENSE cap-wise (Coles, Trotter), and maybe Mark would do ANYTHING to get another crack at starting and completely blow up his contract like Arrington did (assuming it's even possible)

I'm just saying that it's a factor that virtually nobody considers. We'll be spending $6.5 million in cap REGARDLESS.

cleg wrote:I would trade Brunell to the Falcons for a bag of footballs and a ham sandwhich and know I got the better deal.

... you mean a ham sandwich, a bag of footballs, and $6.5 million dollars...

BossHog wrote:We'll be spending $6.5 million in cap REGARDLESS.

What would make it worth it for you? A 4th round pick? A 3rd rounder? Just curious. Or would it not be worth it at all.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

BossHog wrote:We'll be spending $6.5 million in cap REGARDLESS.

What would make it worth it for you? A 4th round pick? A 3rd rounder? Just curious. Or would it not be worth it at all.

Like BH said the Redskins would take a hit regardless. The question is do you continue to pay Bruneezy to be expensive backup (2nd or 3rd) or do you eat the hit, trade him and get an able body that can contribute right away or a pick for the future.

BossHog wrote:I'm just saying that it's a factor that virtually nobody considers. We'll be spending $6.5 million in cap REGARDLESS.

Two points:

1) The money (not the cap money) can EASILY be factored into the trade. So, economically, Mr. Snyder's pocket would remain intact.

2) The cap money WILL hurt you, regardless of whether you keep him or not. If you know that there is no hope whatsoever in having this player do anything for you, why do you want to keep his cap money -and- a roster spot?

Besides, there are ways, even for the not-smartest Front Office in the NFL to bring these issues up and make a point about it in the negotiations. You can not bring cap money back BUT you can get a higher draft pick in return for such "irreversible damage" to your cap space (plus you get all the money back). And if we know Mr. Snyder, can you imagine the smile on his face if he learns that he would recover or not have to dish out 6.5 million (regardless of cap impact).

Would this be the smartest cap move? Heck no. It is just the best smart move to get an additional pick for cap money that is not going to get us anything, anywhere, anyhow. Unfortunately, that cap money was WASTED already.

I'm glad to see Collins step up and play some football! Even more I'm glad to see Jason's hit won't keep him out SCARED ME

Brunell's a good dude, but his time has passed and he needs to move on. Even if we got a conditional 7th rounder and the subjects - we'd be way ahead.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen just reported that the Falcons "could be" interested in Kelly Holcomb and Chris Sims. No mention of Brunell.

SkinsFreak wrote:ESPN's Chris Mortensen just reported that the Falcons "could be" interested in Kelly Holcomb and Chris Sims. No mention of Brunell.

That makes a lot more sense. I mean really, who (besides Miami) trades for a 37+ y.o. QB?!?
But really, why even bother? See if Harrington can play this season; maybe even give Bramlet a shot. Just sit tight, write this season off, and look for a QB in the offseason. Trading for a new QB this late in the season is only a short-term, patchwork solution which likely won't even help much to begin with. It's not like Atlanta was Super Bowl bound even with Vick.

spudstr04 wrote:

Gnome wrote:Reading the headline, I had to ask "Are the Falcons nuts?"

But I didn't know Mark played for Petrino, and that makes the deal make sense. Harrington has looked really dreadful. So Mark would be an improvement. And believe me, more than that, the ATL could use someone with great character and leadership right now.

that's one thing I have really liked about Brunell, he pretty much knows his days of a starting job are behind him, so he quietly moves over and helps develop the young guy that took his job.

And Mark is PC (politically correct) and always puts the team ahead of himself. Too bad he's not as effective on the field as he was in his early days. I like MB as a moral leader but not on the field....if that makes sense.

Mursilis wrote: Just sit tight, write this season off, and look for a QB in the offseason.

They cannot afford to do so from a commercial and marketing perspective. This is primarily a business not a sport. Trust me.

They will find somebody. Probably not Brunell due to several reasons discussed above but somebody.

[quote="Mursilis"]
Let's not get too far above ourselves.

Living in the ATL and listening to sports radio every day, I think this deal would make sense for the Falcons for two reasons -

1) Harrington has not been impressive. In fact, the panel on the number one sports show in town this AM went on about how he is the worst starting QB in the NFL. So without one regular season pass, he's already getting whupped up on by the media and fans.

2) With Vick pleading guilty, and everybody's favorite home town guy, DJ Shockley out for the year with a knee injury, the Falcons have gone into survival mode. They need leadership right now as much as they need a live arm.

And for Mark, if he wants the chance to start, Atlanta is that chance. For him, money might not be as important as one last shot at being the man. I really respect Mark and hope for his sake that this deal comes through.

Redskin in Canada wrote:
1) The money (not the cap money) can EASILY be factored into the contract. So, economically, Mr. Snyder's pocket would remain intact.

Sorry, that just makes no sense whatsoever to me. All money is cap money, and all money paid counts against it - it really doesn't matter how much an owner is willing to spend - he has $109M this year... PERIOD.

If the deal is for a draft pick, where would this magical non-cap money adjustment come from?

2) The cap money WILL hurt you, regardless of whether you keep him or not. If you know that there is no hope whatsoever in having this player do anything for you, why do you want to keep his cap money -and- a roster spot?

So that you can at least pro-rate what's left until 2009. If Brunell sits at number two this year in Washington, we've ALREADY paid him to do so, it won't cost anything else.

Then you can designate him as a post june 1 cut next year whenever you want, and split what's left of the bonus ($3M over 2 years)

Sufficeth to say that we're ALWAYS so perilously close to the cap number that ANY abuse can mean trouble.

YOU'RE the one saying he has no value - not me. I'd still MUCH rather have Brunell coming off of the bench than Collins... Todd's BEST season since 1997 was a whopping 9 of 12 for 75 yards.

That's for a whole season! (I know he didn't really play, but he's only ever played one season and that was 10 years ago)

Having a couple of semi-decent outings in pre-season means absolutely nothing to me. Big deal. I'm not willing to throw away 6.5 Million dollars to take a chance that Collins can do the job - he can't.

Brunell may be losing some touch and some effectiveness - Todd Collins hasn't had it for TEN YEARS... even if he's looked semi-quasi decent in pre-season.

Besides, there are ways, even for the not-smartest Front Office in the NFL to bring these issues up and make a point about it in the negotiations. You can not bring cap money back BUT you can get a higher draft pick in return for such "irreversible damage" to your cap space (plus you get all the money back).

Well then it shouldn't be that difficult for you to give me even ONE instance of this happening in the NFL... I follow ALL cap news very closely and I know of none. It just doesn't happen because it's NOT WORTH IT FOR THE OTHER TEAM.

I find it near hilarious that some of you are standing here saying how useless Brunell is but that teams wouldn't notice, or would give a ridiculously high draft pick for him... or would pick up contract dollars in the range of $3M for... and all for a 37-year old guy who you're defacating on at every turn.

Truly comical.

Why on earth would the Falcons not pick up a scrub on the cheap? It's not like ownership doesn't have a built in excuse for sucking this year - why throw away money or draft picks to get Brunell? That just makes no sense to me.

This isn't fantasy football.

I'm not even going to go into the fact that I don't think there's ANY way that Palmer will be our third when he hasn't touched the ball yet. I think he's destined for the practice squad, and that means picking up another quarterback to PAY to hold a clipboard. That player won't be a rookie either and will likely carry an absolute minimum cap hit of ANOTHER 500K or more.

BossHog wrote:Brunell may be losing some touch and some effectiveness - Todd Collins hasn't had it for TEN YEARS... even if he's looked semi-quasi decent in pre-season.

I am not a Collins fan. But I cannot deny that he has played better than Brunell. He will hold the 3rd string spot and the clipboard. Do not worry.

I never said the trade would be easy. I said that it was not impossible and from some perspective desirable to the pocket of Dan Snyder. Will the Falcons look elsewhere, they are doing so already. This story was too ggood to be true.

Brunell losing some touch and effectiveness ...

Ladies and gentlemen I present you with the Championship for the best articulated euphemism of the year. No he is not a disaster, he always puts us in a position to lose with some dignity when he covers as far as 20 yards ahead of him. And he will do so again if given the chance this season.

The trade will not happen even if there is "desperation" because there are too many younger QB's that are much cheaper than can be plugged in to what the Falcon's want. They are not looking for a franchise guy, just somebody to fill a void until they have the #1 overall in next years draft. Face it, Cleveland will be letting one go, Tampa will probably have to cut a couple, even Oakland will have to turn one loose. A deal could probably be reached between Den and Tampa for the rights of Plummer. There are just too many options for them to give u anything for an aging backup.

Boss Hog wins!

P.S. I'm withholding my decision b/c MB is a standup guy....QB'd one of my best recent Skins memories (2 TD comeback against Dallas)....and Collins is truly untested/unproven against 1st string players!

It would have to be a decent draft pick, and or a decent player. We don't want to jump ship on ole Mark just yet. Would you have been talking about this if JC's injury was more serious. We are one play away from Collins or Brunell taking the reins for 2007, just remember that. Mark has no learning curve, he does have a downside on eroding skills, but we could live with that in an emergency situation for one more year.

They are not looking for a franchise guy

If they're thinking at all about Brunell obviously not.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Mursilis wrote:Let's not get too far above ourselves.

I'm confused - what does that mean?

It really looks like Brunell and Collins (not necessarily in that order) are our back ups with Palmer on the practice squad in case of an emergency.
That is what we are looking at for this year - we just do not seem to have any other options at this position for now.

This sounds like me during last years Fantasy Football seaons... My starter hurt, pick up Collins or Brunell, start a rookie... jeezzz

but in all serious talk... i think that if JC cant come back for a while give Collins a chance to throw 15 NFL passes... make him feel good about himself....

HE IS BETTER THAN BRUNELL!!

From Washington Post....
Posted by Jason La Canfora | Permalink | Comments (19)
Other Blogs' Comments: Technorati


Brunell Update
There has been no recent phone call from Atlanta to the Redskins.

Spoke to numerous people who would know if there had been. There hasn't.

The Falcons called once about Mark early in camp and were told the Skins had no interest in dealing him. Since then, even in the aftermath of the DJ Shockley injury, nothing. Also, spoke to personnel people with a number of teams who all said that they have heard nothing about the Redskins shopping Brunell - no phone calls, no faxes, nothing.

Like I wrote earlier today, I get the sense that the Skins would heavily consider trading Mark for a draft pick, but there is not likely to be much interest out there, and I hear the Falcons are in no rush to make a deal now so late in camp and will look to see which QBs are cut in another week.

Not saying Mark won't go there, or someplace else at some point, just saying that Day Late Dave appears to be at least several days/weeks early on this one.

Well, if JLC says it, it's good enough for me.