The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Agreed though having Rosenhaus as his agent is complicated enough

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I just want him back as a Redskin and for nothing to complicate his resigning.

And that's what we can all agree on.

Fios wrote:Agreed though having Rosenhaus as his agent is complicated enough

When has "the Danny" and Drew had a contract issue?

If there is a problem, the first thing "the Danny" will do is tell Rosenhaus he can't use the Redskins as a bargining chip anymore. Drew would then have to come up with a new way to deal with 31 other eams

The Redskins will make sure that Taylor (& Landry) are playing together for a long time - if Taylor wants to leave for more than he is worth then that will happen - we want players who want to be here and whose salaries are fair to both the player and the team.

I am a "uniform" fan not a "player" fan - I would rather have players who want to be on the team and are paid for their skill and their loyalty. If a player like Pierce (and others) feels that they can make more by leaving and they would rather do that than take the fair amount that is offered to stay here, then they should leave! The Pierce deal was not about the Redskins not wanting him to play here - he wanted more money more than he wanted to stay!

We recently lost a fairly key player in DD but IMO we should not just pay a player to stay if the salary he wants is too high. We used to always over pay for players and I hope in the future we get a reputation for paying players to stay but not at ridiculous amounts. Those amounts are determined by the Redskins NOT by the media or the fans.

IMO we should try and keep every player that has the talent and wants to be a Redskin BUT if any player thinks he is worth more than what the Redskins coaches and FO thinks he is worth, then, someone else will be playing in his place. I used to like Pierce and Bailey but they are wearing a different uniform now. I guess I'm a homer but I only really follow players who are wearing B&G.

IMO Gibbs is trying to create a stable environment here and we will be trying to keep all the players we can especially those as talented as Taylor and ey - ultimately they will be offered fair amounts to stay and hopefully they choose to stay - no worries

SkinsJock wrote:I am a "uniform" fan not a "player" fan - I would rather have players who want to be on the team and are paid for their skill and their loyalty. If a player like Pierce (and others) feels that they can make more by leaving and they would rather do that than take the fair amount that is offered to stay here, then they should leave! The Pierce deal was not about the Redskins not wanting him to play here - he wanted more money more than he wanted to stay!

DD wasn't the worth the cash, Ill give you that.

But Pierce got screwed by us. Vinny went on lunch with the Skins and admitted. I really don't care what anyones opinion is on the Pierce deal because Vinny already admitted to screwing up that deal. The fact that the MLB is again in transition speaks volumes of the stupidity of letting him go.

And the money that we spent on our "experiments" would more than cover the amount to retain our players. It's just for some reason we covet others teams players more than our own at times.

I hope that has changed.

PIERCE CHOSE TO LEAVE ... for god's sake man, no matter what happened, even if the Redskins didn't offer enough or waited too long or whatever (and I don't recall any of that being a problem at the time save for the total dollar figure) they still offered Pierce MILLIONS to stay. It's just dishonest to pretend that the decision wasn't, ultimately, Pierce's and his alone.

Fios wrote:PIERCE CHOSE TO LEAVE ... for god's sake man, no matter what happened, even if the Redskins didn't offer enough or waited too long or whatever they still offered Pierce MILLIONS to stay. It's just dishonest to pretend that the decision wasn't, ultimately, Pierce's and his alone.

Nonsense. This has been denied so many times that it's practically been proven that Pierce only wanted to stay, and we forced him to sign with NY.

I believe that he wanted to stay and then Vinny did whatever he admitted to and then Pierce choose to leave. I assume that Antonio felt disrespected from whatever happened and took it personally. That'd explain why he's spoken about the team since he's left.

If a team low balled me and then did something else to piss me off....I wouldn't been too high on resigning with them either.

We don't know exactly what Vinny did but he must have felt bad about it if he's bleeding his emotions out to the nation. I just refuse to dump it all on Pierce who I believe wanted to stay.

You keep referring to a single quote made at a luncheon, which I've still never heard, that's hardly enough to indicate the team forced Pierce's hand. He wanted more money and he took more money, it's that simple.

Fios wrote:You keep referring to a single quote made at a luncheon, which I've still never heard, that's hardly enough to indicate the team forced Pierce's hand. He wanted more money and he took more money, it's that simple.

I know AP took more money, thats a fact. I just get a bit irked when people make it sound like he just ran out of here and that wasn't the case. I've backed down on numerous tirades but this one is different. The Skins did something dumb during those negotiations and it's primarily their fault IMHO.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I know AP took more money, thats a fact. I just get a bit irked when people make it sound like he just ran out of here and that wasn't the case. I've backed down on numerous tirades but this one is different. The Skins did something dumb during those negotiations and it's primarily their fault IMHO.

Pierce wanted a bigger contract (6 year, 26 mil) than Marcus Washington (6 year, 24 mil). You're saying the Skins blew it by not agreeing to that deal?

I'm still not decided, to tell you the truth. I don't think Pierce is worth more than Washington, but we sure did miss him last year.

Irn-Bru wrote:Pierce wanted a bigger contract (6 year, 26 mil) than Marcus Washington (6 year, 24 mil). You're saying the Skins blew it by not agreeing to that deal?

I'm still not decided, to tell you the truth. I don't think Pierce is worth more than Washington, but we sure did miss him last year.

That is definitely debateable and I don't know the specifics of the situation, you obviously remeber more of it than I do.

But I feel that he deserved a big contract. The guy was drafted here, he rose out of the depth chart and became a leader. Why not reward the guy? He's proven he's a beast. I'm a huge Lemar fan but it's obvious that he's not a "true" MLB....

Now we had to go out and bring in London... Why not just resign your own people? We're too enamored with has beens to truly guage our own GEMS. Or at least we used to be....

MW is great and I truly respect him. But why would it matter if AP made a bit more? Would it kill MW's ego? He's the new kid on the block why should he care? Just because we at times "over pay" F/A's why should that cap what we pay our own guys? AP was the QB of the defense, he has more responsibility and is more of an impact to the defense than MW can be due to his responsibilities. Just because MW is/was a name brand, he automatically gets more than our blue collar guy?

Whether or not a mistake was made, it happened years ago and why waste time crying about the past? I think we should be looking towards the future, not living in the past. Nobody is perfect and everyone makes mistakes. Choosing to live in the past and dwelling on past mistakes is a complete waste of time, IMO. Live, learn and move on... that's the approach I would take.

But this is a business and I totally believe Pierce simply went for the money. Loyalty amongst the players is not the same as the loyalty of fans. I'm a life long Skins fan, but if I played in the NFL for the Browns, let's say, a team I'm not a fan of, why would I desire to be loyal to them if I can get a fatter paycheck elsewhere?

This is a job and a career for these guys. They simply want to maximize their earnings, as all of us do in our own respective careers. Sure, they are a few cases where a player might want to play for a particular coach or team and would take less money to do so, like in Macklin's case, but that's extremely rare.

SkinsFreak wrote:Whether or not a mistake was made, it happened years ago and why waste time crying about the past?

Seriously, nobody is "crying" we're discussing...

But if you're so far ahead in the future...., why did you post this?

SkinsFreak wrote:But this is a business and I totally believe Pierce simply went for the money. Loyalty amongst the players is not the same as the loyalty of fans. I'm a life long Skins fan, but if I played in the NFL for the Browns, let's say, a team I'm not a fan of, why would I desire to be loyal to them if I can get a fatter paycheck elsewhere?

You just joined in on the "crying"..... Go get a box of tissues and sit down with the rest of us.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:You just joined in on the "crying"..... Go get a box of tissues and sit down with the rest of us.

No, I didn't. I simply agreed with a few others, that IMO, Pierce left for the money. He's long gone, so I don't care anymore. And I'm not "so far ahead in the future', as you said. I look forward, not back. It's a waste of time, IMO. But that's just me...

BTW - we didn't draft AP. He was signed by the Skins as an 'undrafted' free agent.

Fact is Pierce is not here and we really would have been better off if he had stayed.

Fact is he could not get what he thought he was worth - that would have meant we would have been paying him more than we were paying Washington - he basically chose to move - we really did not want him to leave BUT we could not change everybody's salaries.

done deal, hopefully LFB will be the force we need in the middle - we are now in a new era - hopefully we have learned from all the mistakes of the past and we will try and not be stupid in our spending (and our trades) as we used to!

BTW - did you see what the Patriots spent for their new LB this year - now maybe the mantle of over-spending will be transferred to the Patriots - want to bet that the media will be all over the Patriots for their idiotic FO decisions recently, NOT

SkinsJock wrote:BTW - did you see what the Patriots spent for their new LB this year - now maybe the mantle of over-spending will be transferred to the Patriots - want to bet that the media will be all over the Patriots for their idiotic FO decisions recently, NOT

Idiotic? They haven't played a down yet and you label their moves idiotic? I mean seriously, they're the most dominant team in the NFL and just made some seriously great draft moves and you call the idiotic? Sounds more like envy to me.

SkinsJock wrote: BTW - did you see what the Patriots spent for their new LB this year - now maybe the mantle of over-spending will be transferred to the Patriots - want to bet that the media will be all over the Patriots for their idiotic FO decisions recently, NOT

Winning is always sufficient justification, and as long as the Pats keep winning, they'll catch very little criticism (and rightly so). Not only have they won 3 Super Bowls in the past 6 years, they're coming off their 6th winning season in a row and their 4th post-season appearance in a row. That speaks for itself. Unfortunately, I can't even remember the last time we had two playoff seasons in a row, or even two winning seasons.

IMO - the team overpaid for Thomas and made some "interesting" choices of players with "issues" - these FO mistakes are only my opinion and I think that how well you do on the field does not justify (imo) stupid moves

I hope it bites them big time - cannot stand the stupid team - trust me, this feeling is not "envy" - the NFL needs the pukes but I would not mind if this stupid team imploded.

Hey UK - send me the petrol!

SkinsJock wrote:IMO - the team overpaid for Thomas and made some "interesting" choices of players with "issues" - these FO mistakes are only my opinion and I think that how well you do on the field does not justify (imo) stupid moves

So....in your mind a successful move can still be considered stupid...?

So what the Skins make stupid moves and they're unsuccessful, what do you call that?

I can comment on both sides of this issue.

1. Winning solves everything. The Pats get a free pass as long as they continue to win. Same thing would apply to us if we won consistently. Sports media would do stories on how Gibbs' return has finally paid off and how his patience saw us through the hard times... Snyder's over aggressiveness in free agency shows how passionate an owner he is and he has given it 110%, yada, yada

2. ESPN is located in Bristol Connecticut. Most of the major media, FOX, CBS, NBC, ABC is in Manhattan and as a result there will always be a bias in the news from these outlets. I mean, really, how much does Manhattan have in common with the rest of America?. So, New England teams (Boston, NY etc.) will always get more love and more coverage. Just look at how many Yankee-Red Sox games are nationally televised. It's ridiculous, they have more games on TV than all the other teams combined.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IMO - the team overpaid for Thomas and made some "interesting" choices of players with "issues" - these FO mistakes are only my opinion and I think that how well you do on the field does not justify (imo) stupid moves

So....in your mind a successful move can still be considered stupid...?

So what the Skins make stupid moves and they're unsuccessful, what do you call that?

I'm not sure why you would think that I would think "a successful move can still be considered stupid...?" - If a move is "successful", why would anyone consider it "stupid"?? I never implied that!

I found it interesting that after the NFL indicated that teams were also going to be accountable for their players and NE goes right out and drafts a "questionable" player, and brings in Moss AND Stallworth thats just a fact - it is just an interesting move on their part - this is not "stupid" it just is different way of doing things for their previous squeeky clean image - sod 'em I say

It is my opinion that NE overpaid for Thomas - maybe some might think not? My point was that if we had done the same thing (ie "overpay") I think the media might have treated us with a slightly different tone - that is just my "stupid" opinion

I could care less about the move per se - I'm just pointing out the bias - no big deal.

I would just love to get things back where they belong - The Redskins on top of the NFL world - the patriots at the bottom, being QB'd by someone like Grogan again.

SkinsJock wrote:I could care less about the move per se - I'm just pointing out the bias - no big deal.

I would agree on there being a bias IF the Pats sucked like we have but still got praise for making "our" type of player acquisitions.

Sadly the fact of the matter is NE is winning Super Bowls left and right, they're in the playoffs every year and they can basically field a team of Apes and until they start losing nobody can really "hate" on them without the appearance of being jealous.

SUPPOSEDLY on ESPN Radio it was announced that S. Taylor is currently unhappy with his contract.

*grain of salt*

Yeah but I hated them before they won any trophies - that is not being jealous - this franchise might be "successful" in a lot of fans eyes but the reality is they are not what they appear to be.

Going to be interesting if Bill leaves here this year and starts to get interested in jobs down near Annapolis MD or Washington DC so he can be near some woman that he has been reportedly "interested" in even though she is married

sorry - i just do not like this team and i hope they have a terrible year.