The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Doesn't anyone think that these players go hard enough as it is in practice... Everyone keeps mentioning that Portis has to get accustomed to the hits; but when they go full pads in training camp people get HIT!!! LT gets time off because unlike the other positions on the team, when the running back gets handed the ball (between 300-400 times a year) he has the whole defense trying to jar it loose...

The center gives it to the quarter back...

The quarterback gives it to the RUNNING BACK, or passes it to some widereceiver...

If the QB should happen to get sacked, it won't happen more than 20-30 times a year (unless your QB's name is David Carr, Byron Leftwitch, or the recently retired Drew Bledsoe)

Clinton has got to play some in the preseason.
I think he will. It's hard to face your teammates after any game that you took yourself out of for no other reason than preventive maintenance.

1niksder wrote:I'm just saying it wasn't a issue until he had to carry the full load. He won't have to do that in 2007

I was definitely over exaggerating but trying to make a point to those who think that he can easily supplant CP.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

1niksder wrote:I'm just saying it wasn't a issue until he had to carry the full load. He won't have to do that in 2007

I was definitely over exaggerating but trying to make a point to those who think that he can easily supplant CP.

Well he did fumble a bit much, but some of it was just good tackling from him trying to pick up extra yards. I believe one or two were dislodged with someone's helmet. Still its no excuse. But its hard to argue that Betts' isn't the better chains mover. Portis usually goes about 1,10,3, 1, 12,6 while betts will go 4 8 7 8 5 4 10. It is rare if Betts doesn't get at least 4 yards. I think its more apples and oranges than most people do. They were only drafted 5 spots apart, and i know which one is cheaper.

brad7686 wrote:Well he did fumble a bit much, but some of it was just good tackling from him trying to pick up extra yards. I believe one or two were dislodged with someone's helmet. Still its no excuse. But its hard to argue that Betts' isn't the better chains mover. Portis usually goes about 1,10,3, 1, 12,6 while betts will go 4 8 7 8 5 4 10. It is rare if Betts doesn't get at least 4 yards. I think its more apples and oranges than most people do. They were only drafted 5 spots apart, and i know which one is cheaper.

Brad, when Betts went on his running spree, he was running against some of the worst rushing defenses in the NFL. It IS apples and oranges.

Oh and in your example, he would have averaged 6.6 yards per carry....

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Well he did fumble a bit much, but some of it was just good tackling from him trying to pick up extra yards. I believe one or two were dislodged with someone's helmet. Still its no excuse. But its hard to argue that Betts' isn't the better chains mover. Portis usually goes about 1,10,3, 1, 12,6 while betts will go 4 8 7 8 5 4 10. It is rare if Betts doesn't get at least 4 yards. I think its more apples and oranges than most people do. They were only drafted 5 spots apart, and i know which one is cheaper.

Brad, when Betts went on his running spree, he was running against some of the worst rushing defenses in the NFL. It IS apples and oranges.

Oh and in your example, he would have averaged 6.6 yards per carry....

I'm sorry but don't make excuses for his fumbling problem. He's not enduring anything special that nobody else must go through. He's simply not focused or doesn't have good technique.

And not only that he was running in an offense that could attack through the air which CP has not yet had the luxury of doing. Betts hasn't seen as many 8 man fronts as CP. It's even more ridiculous to compare and contrast the two when they've been in two separate systems. This discussion will be more accurate after this season.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Well he did fumble a bit much, but some of it was just good tackling from him trying to pick up extra yards. I believe one or two were dislodged with someone's helmet. Still its no excuse. But its hard to argue that Betts' isn't the better chains mover. Portis usually goes about 1,10,3, 1, 12,6 while betts will go 4 8 7 8 5 4 10. It is rare if Betts doesn't get at least 4 yards. I think its more apples and oranges than most people do. They were only drafted 5 spots apart, and i know which one is cheaper.

Brad, when Betts went on his running spree, he was running against some of the worst rushing defenses in the NFL. It IS apples and oranges.

Oh and in your example, he would have averaged 6.6 yards per carry....

I'm sorry but don't make excuses for his fumbling problem. He's not enduring anything special that nobody else must go through. He's simply not focused or doesn't have good technique.

And not only that he was running in an offense that could attack through the air which CP has not yet had the luxury of doing. Betts hasn't seen as many 8 man fronts as CP. It's even more ridiculous to compare and contrast the two when they've been in two separate systems. This discussion will be more accurate after this season.

well since all you hypocrites want to make excuses for portis' lack of prodcution i think i fit right in. We'll see what he can do this year. He should have no excuses with Campbell according to everyone here. I didn't know Jason Campbell was the magic solution for Portis to play like he did in Denver. I thought maybe it was the fact that everyone does good in Denver and then have severe drop offs after leaving. 1 ypc is a big big drop in production. Denver really hornswaggled us. And i meant to say less apples and oranges for the record. Brainfart.

brad7686 wrote:well since all you hypocrites want to make excuses for portis' lack of prodcution

Please show me his lack of production? Show us how 1500 yards is a lack of production.

Who excused a lack of production? I just blew holes on your horrible comparision between Portis and Betts. You simply cannot use the 2006 year as a basis for Betts is better. Portis hasn't played in the system for a full year and he was injured. You can use the previous Gibbs years but Betts didn't do good in those years.

Eclipsing every REDSKIN RB in history is "drop off" in production to you?


Are you not able to comprehend how a passing game of over 3 yards an attempt will stretch a defense?

Did you not hear the safety from Green Bay state that his team knew that MB wouldn't throw the long ball and it allowed them to focus soley on CP?

How many 8 man fronts did Betts see in contrast to the fronts that Portis saw in 2005? It definitely was a lot less.

CP was 4th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 2005.
CP was 8th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE in rushing in 2004.
CP WAS 5TH IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE IN 2003.

Drop Off? Dude that was a terrible post. Don't be upset that Betts isn't worthy to carry Clintons jack strap, it's ok and the rest of us at THN are here to help you through this. Just look at the stats Brad, just look at them. Look at the stats.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

brad7686 wrote:well since all you hypocrites want to make excuses for portis' lack of prodcution

Please show me his lack of production? Show us how 1500 yards is a lack of production.

Who excused a lack of production? I just blew holes on your horrible comparision between Portis and Betts. You simply cannot use the 2006 year as a basis for Betts is better. Portis hasn't played in the system for a full year and he was injured. You can use the previous Gibbs years but Betts didn't do good in those years.

Eclipsing every REDSKIN RB in history is "drop off" in production to you?


Are you not able to comprehend how a passing game of over 3 yards an attempt will stretch a defense?

Did you not hear the safety from Green Bay state that his team knew that MB wouldn't throw the long ball and it allowed them to focus soley on CP?

How many 8 man fronts did Betts see in contrast to the fronts that Portis saw in 2005? It definitely was a lot less.

CP was 4th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 2005.
CP was 8th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE in rushing in 2004.
CP WAS 5TH IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE IN 2003.

Drop Off? Dude that was a terrible post.[/quote

Yea drop off. Here's a stat for you. In the magic "2005 greatest season ever oh my gosh lets purchase portis jock off ebay" season he only amassed about 150 more total yards then betts had last year when he didnt even start that much. And also i dont think philly is that bad that every rb should get 171 yards rushing against them every time. You want to talk about bad run defenses? Portis averaged 3.6 ypc vs. INDY last year. INDY. And by drop off i mean check his denver numbers. Def not worth champ bailey now. OVER A WHOLE YARD DIFFERENCE IN YARDS PER CARRY. And don't call my posts terrible they have more meaningful stats than yours. You keep posting total rushing yards numbers but if someone gets run into the ground then they will have to produce. Look at the yards per carry.

brad7686 wrote:he only amassed about 150 more total yards then betts had last year

It was a different system. Why are you not understanding that it's not fair to compare and contrast them without them being in THE SAME SYSTEM.

Compare the stats when they both run Gibbs system....

brad7686 wrote:And by drop off i mean check his denver numbers.

It's a different system and it had a better air attack than our 2005 squad. You make it seem like he was rushing for 800 yards.

brad7686 wrote:And don't call my posts terrible they have more meaningful stats than yours.

Terrible.


Don't forget to throw Betts fumbling stat into the mix. Who cares what he's doing when he's turning the ball over to the defense for 7 points. But that doesn't matter does it? Wasn't it the Titans game where your boy Betts improved his YPC at the end with a long run just to fumble it away to the defense?



And no Betts still can't hold CP's jock if he had 7 hands. He'd probally fumble it and turn it over to CP who'd run it in for 7 points.

Somebody move this to smack. Seriously, thats a request in advance. Because i'm going to use profane language. P.S. CLL, calling someone who has valid points' posts terrible is real mature. Just cuz you don't agree doesn't mean it's a terrible post. I don't agree with you or your complete obliviousness to statistics, but i won't call your posts terrible.

brad7686 wrote:Somebody move this to smack. Seriously, thats a request in advance. Because i'm going to use profane language.

Don't do that. You can attack the post and not the poster. So wear yourself disassembling my post. It's not my fault Betts fumbles and that it destroys your argument that he's the superior back when he's scoring for the other team!!!


And who cares if CP had to grind out yards, that just proves the point that...(2005)

1. We didn't have a passing game.
2. He faced 8 man fronts.
3. He took the team on his shoulders literally and got us into the playoffs.
4. Griding out the tuff yards is a staple of Gibbs offense, so why is that a bad thing?



And no Betts still can't hold CP's jock if he had 7 hands. He'd probally fumble it and turn it over to CP who'd run it in for 7 points.

again, really showing your maturity, especially for a moderator. I'm impressed. And in your ignorance you show your lack of an argument. It's like arguing with a 6 year old. Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.

brad7686 wrote:again, really showing your maturity, especially for a moderator. I'm impressed. And in your ignorance you show your lack of an argument. It's like arguing with a 6 year old. Nanny nanny boo boo stick your head in doo doo.

Again, I ask you to attack my post and not me. Your the one breaking the rules and going off topic. I'm presenting my argument right or wrong and you resort to name calling?

brad, you can take it to Smack any time that you want; just keep it clean if you stay here. No need to move this perfectly fine Hogwash thread if you can easily start a new one and say what you want. Thanks.

Brad, you never answered these questions for me.

Eclipsing every REDSKIN RB in history is "drop off" in production to you?

Are you not able to comprehend how a passing game of over 3 yards an attempt will stretch a defense?

Did you not hear the safety from Green Bay state that his team knew that MB wouldn't throw the long ball and it allowed them to focus soley on CP?

Why didn’t Betts explode like this under Gibbs system?

Did Betts start knocking down large chunk before or after JC came in?

Also worth noting the O-line didn't gell and start opening huge holes on a consistent basis until after Portis went down

brad7686 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

brad7686 wrote:well since all you hypocrites want to make excuses for portis' lack of prodcution

Please show me his lack of production? Show us how 1500 yards is a lack of production.

Who excused a lack of production? I just blew holes on your horrible comparision between Portis and Betts. You simply cannot use the 2006 year as a basis for Betts is better. Portis hasn't played in the system for a full year and he was injured. You can use the previous Gibbs years but Betts didn't do good in those years.

Eclipsing every REDSKIN RB in history is "drop off" in production to you?


Are you not able to comprehend how a passing game of over 3 yards an attempt will stretch a defense?

Did you not hear the safety from Green Bay state that his team knew that MB wouldn't throw the long ball and it allowed them to focus soley on CP?

How many 8 man fronts did Betts see in contrast to the fronts that Portis saw in 2005? It definitely was a lot less.

CP was 4th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 2005.
CP was 8th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE in rushing in 2004.
CP WAS 5TH IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE IN 2003.

Drop Off? Dude that was a terrible post.[/quote

Yea drop off. Here's a stat for you. In the magic "2005 greatest season ever oh my gosh lets purchase portis jock off ebay" season he only amassed about 150 more total yards then betts had last year when he didnt even start that much. And also i dont think philly is that bad that every rb should get 171 yards rushing against them every time. You want to talk about bad run defenses? Portis averaged 3.6 ypc vs. INDY last year. INDY. And by drop off i mean check his denver numbers. Def not worth champ bailey now. OVER A WHOLE YARD DIFFERENCE IN YARDS PER CARRY. And don't call my posts terrible they have more meaningful stats than yours. You keep posting total rushing yards numbers but if someone gets run into the ground then they will have to produce. Look at the yards per carry.

yea well you didnt answer most of what i said here. Also i think Santana Moss was a better deep threat under brunell than campbell wouldnt you say? Look at his 05 numbers. Betts never started in Gibbs system, and it definitely would fit him better than portis who should still be in denver with all the other undersized backs.

Fios wrote:Also worth noting the O-line didn't gell and start opening huge holes on a consistent basis until after Portis went down

Which was around the time that MB was gone also. I just checked the stats on NFL.com and Betts didn't start putting up big numbers until Jasons 2nd or 3rd game as a full time starter.

I know that the oline had to have improved a bit. But its my opinion that the improvement of the RUNNING GAME (not Betts) was due to JC stretching the defenses. I think that a healthy CP, Betts, or Davis would have ripped of the same yardage if not more.

brad7686 wrote:yea well you didnt answer most of what i said here.

So is that your answer?

brad7686 wrote:[ portis who should still be in denver with all the other undersized backs.

Thats the difference between you and I. You have something personal against Portis and simply don't like him. I've stated that I like Betts and that I'm happy that we resigned him. But you just write off Portis's accomplishments like they're nothing. I reocgnized Betts talents but thats all tarnished with his fumblitis. You can downplay Mr. Fumbles all you want but it's a real issue when you see a guy carrying the Rock and you're worried he's going to fumble cus he does it so often.

brad7686 wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

brad7686 wrote:well since all you hypocrites want to make excuses for portis' lack of prodcution

Please show me his lack of production? Show us how 1500 yards is a lack of production.

Who excused a lack of production? I just blew holes on your horrible comparision between Portis and Betts. You simply cannot use the 2006 year as a basis for Betts is better. Portis hasn't played in the system for a full year and he was injured. You can use the previous Gibbs years but Betts didn't do good in those years.

Eclipsing every REDSKIN RB in history is "drop off" in production to you?


Are you not able to comprehend how a passing game of over 3 yards an attempt will stretch a defense?

Did you not hear the safety from Green Bay state that his team knew that MB wouldn't throw the long ball and it allowed them to focus soley on CP?

How many 8 man fronts did Betts see in contrast to the fronts that Portis saw in 2005? It definitely was a lot less.

CP was 4th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE IN RUSHING IN 2005.
CP was 8th in the ENTIRE LEAGUE in rushing in 2004.
CP WAS 5TH IN THE ENTIRE LEAGUE IN 2003.

Drop Off? Dude that was a terrible post.[/quote

Yea drop off. Here's a stat for you. In the magic "2005 greatest season ever oh my gosh lets purchase portis jock off ebay" season he only amassed about 150 more total yards then betts had last year when he didnt even start that much. And also i dont think philly is that bad that every rb should get 171 yards rushing against them every time. You want to talk about bad run defenses? Portis averaged 3.6 ypc vs. INDY last year. INDY. And by drop off i mean check his denver numbers. Def not worth champ bailey now. OVER A WHOLE YARD DIFFERENCE IN YARDS PER CARRY. And don't call my posts terrible they have more meaningful stats than yours. You keep posting total rushing yards numbers but if someone gets run into the ground then they will have to produce. Look at the yards per carry.

yea well you didnt answer most of what i said here. Also i think Santana Moss was a better deep threat under brunell than campbell wouldnt you say? Look at his 05 numbers. Betts never started in Gibbs system, and it definitely would fit him better than portis who should still be in denver with all the other undersized backs.

I answered some of it here. And is that your answer? I've responded more than you have. all you can do is bring up the 05 season.

For fun, since Champ left, here are the rankings for each team's passing defense:

2004:
WAS: 7th DEN: 6th

2005:
WAS: 10th DEN: 29th

2006:
WAS: 23rd DEN: 21st

So if we're going to argue that Portis' decline in production means the trade was a bad idea for the Redskins, doesn't the same hold true for Denver since they've seen a negligible to negative impact on their passing defense?

Yea but you have to pass on Denver. They have run defense from hell. And look at the turnover numbers. You have to take into account total defense. The redskins could be easily run on last year and yet ppl still passed on them. Also compare the records of the teams.

brad7686 wrote:
Yea drop off. Here's a stat for you. In the magic "2005 greatest season ever oh my gosh lets purchase portis jock off ebay" season he only amassed about 150 more total yards then betts had last year when he didnt even start that much.

Again, you're comparing two different systems under two different QB's. It's not a fair comparisoin. I covered that already and now remeber why I didn't quote this.

brad7686 wrote:You want to talk about bad run defenses? Portis averaged 3.6 ypc vs. INDY last year. INDY.

I coulda sworn Indy shut down one of the best running teams in the super bowl.

Didn't Portis have injured shoulders? DOesn't a RB lead with his shoulders?

brad7686 wrote:And by drop off i mean check his denver numbers.

So 1500 yards isn't enough for you?

brad7686 wrote: Def not worth champ bailey now.

Champ would have left and we would have gotten nothing....haven't realized that yet?

brad7686 wrote:Yea but you have to pass on Denver. They have run defense from hell. And look at the turnover numbers. You have to take into account total defense. The redskins could be easily run on last year and yet ppl still passed on them. Also compare the records of the teams.

Their rushing defense was 16th in the league, that ain't awful but it's not intimidating either. They were also middle-of-the-pack in turnovers.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

brad7686 wrote:
Yea drop off. Here's a stat for you. In the magic "2005 greatest season ever oh my gosh lets purchase portis jock off ebay" season he only amassed about 150 more total yards then betts had last year when he didnt even start that much.

Again, you're comparing two different systems under two different QB's. It's not a fair comparisoin. I covered that already and now remeber why I didn't quote this.

brad7686 wrote:You want to talk about bad run defenses? Portis averaged 3.6 ypc vs. INDY last year. INDY.

I coulda sworn Indy shut down one of the best running teams in the super bowl.

Didn't Portis have injured shoulders? DOesn't a RB lead with his shoulders?

brad7686 wrote:And by drop off i mean check his denver numbers.

So 1500 yards isn't enough for you?

brad7686 wrote: Def not worth champ bailey now.

Champ would have left and we would have gotten nothing....haven't realized that yet?

Will you stop copping out? It doesn't matter what system it is Portis doesn't put up the numbers. period.