Who's calling the shots...ESPN Insider Article

[SkinsJock]

And it's presently fashionable to bash Snyder

When you think about it Snyder would be better off without all the hassle and we might get an owner like most of the others in the NFL that really do not care about their team's players or their fans.

First thing that FO group would do is not pay the salaries Snyder has been paying - if you get some college coach in here it wouldn't cost very much and you could even use him as an excuse.





Snyder might not be as good as a lot of fans here want but I think he is a lot better than most other owners and I think he's getting better.

[fleetus]

Snyder bashing is fashionable for a very good reason. The Skins make more money than any other NFL team. His willingness to pay for coaches and free agents stems from that FACT. If we had the CArdinals revenue, I doubt he would be willing to stretch the salary cap every year. Secondly, all the spending in the world doesn't win games. We have a rotating door of free agents who kindly take their signing bonuses and go play elsewhere once they fall out of favor here. It is quite obvious to anyone who follows football, this is because Snyder and FO don't do their homework. Since Snyder does not have ANY football background on his resume, maybe these decisions should be left to those with some form of football experience.

Defending Snyder is not needed here unless you agree with his football decisions. I think everyone here likes Snyder personally. But I'm not going to call him a successful owner simply because he earns more profit than any other owner. I'm not part of the profit sharing program I simply want the team to win games. Snyder taking a step back from the free agent and draft involvement would help in that effort.

[SkinsJock]

..Defending Snyder is not needed here unless you agree with his football decisions. I think everyone here likes Snyder personally....

1 - I doubt anyone "here" even knows Snyder

2 - If this is an indication of what you have gathered from myself & other posters at THN then you're sadly very mis-informed
This sort of statement gives some insight into how much some people at this site really know about what some here are trying to express about what is going on with our team and who is running it

[PulpExposure]

..Defending Snyder is not needed here unless you agree with his football decisions. I think everyone here likes Snyder personally....

1 - I doubt anyone "here" even knows Snyder

2 - If this is an indication of what you have gathered from myself & other posters at THN then you're sadly very mis-informed
This sort of statement gives some insight into how much some people at this site really know about what some here are trying to express about what is going on with our team and who is running it

Yeah. I think he's most likely a contemptible little egotistic bastard (Mr. Snyder...give me a freaking break).

But I know when you have an owner who generates money and is willing to spend it, it's a good thing.

[fleetus]

If this is an indication of what you have gathered from myself & other posters at THN then you're sadly very mis-informed.

SkinsJock, when you make a valid point, I expect we'll all stand up and cheer for your achievement. Thus far all you've been is predictably contrary. First you defend Snyder, saying he's really a good owner because he spends tons of money. I point out that spending and making money is not how I judge an owners success. You ignore that point and make a semantic argument that we don't actually know him "personally". Good for you. That strkies at the heart of the matter. Not sure what your stance is or if you have one other than a desire to argue.

The subject at hand is, who controls the Skins FO moves and why. Yes Dan-o spends money, mostly because he makes more of it than any other owner. Yes Dan-o is a better than some random millionaire off the street. Does that mean that he is justified in meddling in free agent signings and the draft process?

Even Wikipedia points out that Dan-o's main achievement has been profit not wins. Profit is good for Dan-o and really noone else

WIKIPEDIA:

While Snyder has been owner, the Redskins' annual profit has increased nearly $100 million.

Snyder paid attention to revenue generation by adding more suites and club seats, enlarging capacity to a league-high 84,000-plus, and he sold the club seats that had gone empty under the Cooke family reign

Snyder takes the same business approach that has made him wealthy when running the team. So, not realizing that everything he did would be so scrutinized, he was stung by media portrayal of him as a bad guy when he fired 25 or so Redskins employees within days of buying the team, some with 20 years-plus of service.

Snyder often directly involves himself in Redskins' competitive operations and player acquisition. He has served as the de facto general manager for the team over the years. Throughout his tenure, he has invested a great amount of money into high-profile players, including Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Jeremiah Trotter, Jeff George, Clinton Portis, Antwaan Randle El, Brandon Lloyd, and Andre Carter. However, since Snyder assumed control, these investments have not translated into much success on the football field as the Redskins have only managed a 54-58 overall record and have made the playoffs twice.

I don't think Snyder's ivolvement and lack of success therein is really up for debate any longer. Even Wikipedia is on board.

[PulpExposure]

lack of success therein is really up for debate any longer. Even Wikipedia is on board.

You do realize Wikipedia is open source, so that article could have been written by anyone...including a disgruntled Redskins fan who has a grudge against Snyder and thus slants the article?

[Countertrey]

Thus far all you've been is predictably contrary.

God, I love irony!

[SkinsJock]

I am not a Snyder "defender" per se - I just am a little tired of the bashing for the sake of bashing - we all (well most of us) understand that this guy has a lot of faults - I have no problems with many here who want to vent and let people know about their frustrations with the mistakes in managing and owning our team - that is fine! I just get tired of some who take it to the extreme and do not like to be "corrected" - I would have let this go but as the saying goes "here's your sign" - it's your turn!

..SkinsJock, when you make a valid point, I expect we'll all stand up and cheer for your achievement. Thus far all you've been is predictably contrary.

my! my!

It's not just about selling out the stadium. It's merchandise, corporate box seats, radio and tv revenue, etc. Plus, don't forget, back when Dan-o made arguably his most idiotic moves (Deion Sanders, Jeff George, Bruce Smith, etc) he was building the largest stadium in the NFL.

PulpExposure politely (I felt) reminded you that in fact "FedEx was built before Dan Snyder owned the Redskins.

AND pointed out - "Built in 1997. Snyder bought the team in 1999."

to which you had to respond "point remains the same" well excuse us! The fact is you were caught with a little mistake and you just could not let that go - bully for you!

Then you make another little "mistake" in my opinion, when you state "I think everyone here likes Snyder personally."
to which, I try and point out that I do not believe there is anyone here that even knows this guy personally AND that most here do not really like him anyway including me!

Now you say that I'm not only defending him but also ignoring your point!

Let me say it again - I do not think this guy has done a good job as an owner but I do not think he is as bad an owner as most other owners in the NFL and certainly not as bad as some here make him out to be. I also am holding out hope that this guy may have learnt from his mistakes of the past and it looks as though he will prove that in the near future IMHO.

All I was pointing out to you was that you have made a couple of small mistakes in your presentation - no big deal - just maybe your whole concept is also a little off the wall


and then this to really impress us all - Wikipedia, no less AND in capitals - just love it

Even Wikipedia points out that Dan-o's main achievement has been profit not wins. Profit is good for Dan-o and really noone else

WIKIPEDIA:

While Snyder has been owner, the Redskins' annual profit has increased nearly $100 million.

Snyder paid attention to revenue generation by adding more suites and club seats, enlarging capacity to a league-high 84,000-plus, and he sold the club seats that had gone empty under the Cooke family reign

Snyder takes the same business approach that has made him wealthy when running the team. So, not realizing that everything he did would be so scrutinized, he was stung by media portrayal of him as a bad guy when he fired 25 or so Redskins employees within days of buying the team, some with 20 years-plus of service.

Snyder often directly involves himself in Redskins' competitive operations and player acquisition. He has served as the de facto general manager for the team over the years. Throughout his tenure, he has invested a great amount of money into high-profile players, including Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, Jeremiah Trotter, Jeff George, Clinton Portis, Antwaan Randle El, Brandon Lloyd, and Andre Carter. However, since Snyder assumed control, these investments have not translated into much success on the football field as the Redskins have only managed a 54-58 overall record and have made the playoffs twice.

I don't think Snyder's ivolvement and lack of success therein is really up for debate any longer. Even Wikipedia is on board.

not a doubt in my mind debate is now over!

[Fios]

General notice: please limit your posts to the topic at-hand and NOT the individual post-er

[SkinsJock]

My apologies to everyone, my bad - I will be more careful - just got a little carried away - this off-season has been very dis-concerting

[Fios]

Again, that is a general notice, there are a few people that is aimed at

[Redskin in Canada]

Jocko, Jocko, my good man,

It is fashionable to criticise Snyder? If this is a "fashion", it has been longer than Calvin Klein or Salvatore Ferragamo would ever hope to get. Snyder arrived as the owner of this franchise as a young, arrogant, and egotistic brat. The only difference has been a decade. So, he is not as young anymore but the other adjectives still apply.

Fashionable? From some of the posts that I have received, I have been accused of several capital sins:

a) not a real fan;
b) if I dislike the modus operandi of the owner, I am disloyal to the Skins;
c) lack of knowledge about what "really" goes on at Redskin Park; and
d) not acknowledging in balance the good choices and that he "really" is getting better.

My perception is the opposite. If anything was "fashionable", it was the criticism received by fans who criticise the owner and his decisions. Any love for Snyder is nothing but the result of MISPLACED LOYALTY. I love my Redskins. I hate what Dan Snyder has done to MY team.

When you think about it Snyder would be better off without all the hassle and we might get an owner like most of the others in the NFL that really do not care about their team's players or their fans.

PLEASE, let him know that. I beg you to persuade him about it! God forbid, we might get an owner with a smaller ego who knows how to choose the right Front Office, and who acknowledges that he knows little if anything about football and player acquisition in particular. Many players and coaches have been kicked out of this organisation for far fewer flaws and errors in judgement than his.

But you and I KNOW that this is an emotional or at least rhetorical statement. Dan Snyder has many tens of millions of green dollars per year written in black at the bottom line of this profitable operation. He can "suffer" the pain and sorrow of losing seasons a bit better than you and I. You see, he has a larger family than us and while you and I can dispose of our income to watch the Skins, he really needs all that money as compensation for his many sorrows and sufferings.

First thing that FO group would do is not pay the salaries Snyder has been paying - if you get some college coach in here it wouldn't cost very much and you could even use him as an excuse.

If performance has any relationship whatsoever to income, his choice to overpay would be wrong, wouldn't it? In what way does overpaying for staff like Cerrato makes him a "good" owner as opposed to a "bad" businessman?

Snyder might not be as good as a lot of fans here want but I think he is a lot better than most other owners and I think he's getting better.

The -only- reason why this perception -might- be true is because of the leverage that Joe Gibbs might have brought up to the Team. But one of the MOST important points in my criticism of Dan Snyder is that we only have Joe Gibbs for -TWO- more years. There is a sense of great urgency to fix this team. Joe is probably the -only- person who can say no to Dan and keep his job.

I am not a Snyder "defender" per se - I just am a little tired of the bashing for the sake of bashing - we all (well most of us) understand that this guy has a lot of faults - ... !

I hope you are right and Dan is "really" getting better to the extent that he removes himself from player acquisitions and liberates Joe Gibbs from the dead weight that Vinny Cerrato has added to the team for years. Because if he does not, the tenure of Joe Gbbs might finish with a whimper thus tarnishing the image of the best headcoach I have had the privilege to know throughout my entire life. And that, I would hope you agree, is not worth the price to "educate" a greedy, football-illiterate, egotistical and selfish maniac.

[fleetus]

It's not just about selling out the stadium. It's merchandise, corporate box seats, radio and tv revenue, etc. Plus, don't forget, back when Dan-o made arguably his most idiotic moves (Deion Sanders, Jeff George, Bruce Smith, etc) he was building the largest stadium in the NFL.

PulpExposure politely (I felt) reminded you that in fact "FedEx was built before Dan Snyder owned the Redskins.

to which you had to respond "point remains the same" well excuse us! The fact is you were caught with a little mistake and you just could not let that go - bully for you!

Then you make another little "mistake" in my opinion, when you state "I think everyone here likes Snyder personally."
to which, I try and point out that I do not believe there is anyone here that even knows this guy personally AND that most here do not really like him anyway including me!

You seem a little preoccupied with finding others mistakes at the detriment of the actual discussion taking place. It's like speaking to a broken record. I make points about Snyder selling the Box seats that JKC could not. That he turned a cool 100 mil profit that JKC could not. He made huge free agent spalshes to work all of us up into a frenzy so we would spend more of our money and it worked. You're response? "but you said personally. you said personally. You don't know him personally" at least that's the way it sounds, like a broken record.

Yes, the stadium was built in 97, yawn, thanks for illuminating Pulp's post. Must have eaten you up that he caught one that you didn't. Again, it's not really important when the point was, Snyder took over for JKC and started making alot more money in revenue by selling out all those box seats, charging more for tickets, parking, concessions, souvenirs etc. That's the point. Doesn't really matter whether this took place in 97, 99 or 05. IT IS IRRELEVANT.

I also am holding out hope that this guy may have learnt from his mistakes of the past and it looks as though he will prove that in the near future IMHO..

Here we get an actual independent opinion from you, kind of? All of this prelude so that we can hear; you kind of are holding out hope. He's learning from past mistakes now? Okay, I won't bash. At least, you stated an opinion about the discussion. We know where you stand on this topic.

just maybe your whole concept is also a little off the wall .

Yeah, the concept of Snyder as a meddling owner who makes bad FOOTBALL decisions while raking in more millions than any other owner is really, OFF THE WALL :lol:

You don't like Wikipedia as the source? Okay, just Google "Snyder meddling" You'll get plenty of articles written by ESPN, Sportsline, MSNBC etc. I'm sure they're ALL mistaken. Isn't it weird that even though "Snyder" is a common name, that google has no problem finding plenty of articles about "Dan Snyder meddling"? Hmmm, must just be blind luck.

Again, the point is, even Wikipedia easily establishes facts about Snyders' money making skills at the total detriment to any real football success. Everyone in the NFL knows Snyder is a fantasy football owner who runs free agent prices up unnecessarily, trades away draft picks like they're Chicklets and undermines any hope for team chemistry. Everyone knows this because it has remained largely unchanged for 8 years.

This discussion started because yet another article was written pointing out these obvious indiscretions. Yet some Redskins fans continue to "drink the koolaid". When are we going to wake up and realize Snyder is the root cause of many problems. He needs to do what all good owners do (JKC for example) and leave the football decisions to football people.

All that said, I have some hope too. I hope that Gibbs is finally wrestling some control from Snyder. I hope the plethora of previous idiotic FO moves puts enough pressure on Snyder that he takes a back seat. Of course, we've heard that before, that he had made enough mistakes and was taking a back seat. It didn't last long.

[BnGhog]

Yeah, well my boss is an ass but I still work for him. My dad was an ass growing up but he's still my dad, Snyder sucks but I'M STILL A SKIN FAN.

I could care less, I will be watching on sunday, not because of the owner or who he got in FA, I will be watching on sunday, not to see who will earn a pay check, or to see what buy is a bust.

Some you guys hating on snyder all you can talk about is how much money he makes. Sounds like your just jelous to me and are mad because he makes money.

I think any new owner with money to spend, and who wants to improve his team will come in and buy players. As we all know, don't work. But, what else did he know to do. Hire some one who knows football and let him take care of it. I'll tell you, I sure couldn't sit back and watch my billion $ team not winning and not want do do something. I agree he don't know enough about it, and he needs FO help. A FO that knows what they are doing. My point being, if Elmer Fudd was the owner, Id be watching. This is not why we are fans. Hell, I became a fan after seing the skins suck, the winning the next year. You guys can blame who you want and argue whos to blame. Im just here for the news.

[Chris Luva Luva]

Some you guys hating on snyder all you can talk about is how much money he makes. Sounds like your just jelous to me and are mad because he makes money.

I agree 100%, lets talk about all the success in the win column... /stirring the pot

[BnGhog]

Haha.

Not enough to W's to talk about.

Id want to see it better this year. But, I could care less how much money Snyder makes of off me. And, I won't blame that on why, ey of all people drops a pass to not keep a drive alive, or blame him for Betts fumble, or Carter not getting their in time, or when Brunell threw it away, or Jason's timeing was off and threw too early for a route, and so on and so on, etc......etc........


I know their point, I do, I makes me upset to, thats just not the side of football i concentrate on. And I get tired of hearing it all the time.

[SkinsJock]

RiC - I may not agree with you on some of your points at least I know where you are coming from & when you establish your positions it is done with a certain "clarity"

To your points about Snyder and this thread - in the early years Snyder hired Cerrato because (I think) he did his due diligence and at that time Cerrato looked like he was a personnel and cap wizard due to what he had done for the 49ers. That has since proven to be a mistake but for some reason Cerrato has stayed on despite all the evidence - I think when Gibbs came on board he (Gibbs) felt that the problems were not as much due to Cerrato and Snyder as it was due to the players and coaches.

When Gibbs came back he came back with Snyder's agreement that he (Gibbs) was now in charge of the football team.

The reason I think that Cerrato will not be here in June is that the draft will be over and Snyder and Gibbs are now realizing that they need to "manage" the team differently than they have done in the past. I am not sure how that will shake out but I just do not see Cerrato staying because he also should realize that he's not helping by staying in that position.

I am not sure that we will get a GM as much as I think we need it because I think that when Gibbs stops coaching he may be interested in staying on and helping Snyder continue what they have developed this year and next. IMO We need someone who can both do a better job at evaluating talent and how it suits this team and manage the pro and college scouting departments.

Regarding Snyder's critics and criticism -

From some of the posts that I have received, I have been accused of several capital sins:

a) not a real fan;
b) if I dislike the modus operandi of the owner, I am disloyal to the Skins;
c) lack of knowledge about what "really" goes on at Redskin Park; and
d) not acknowledging in balance the good choices and that he "really" is getting better.

a) We all know that you are a real fan of this team
b0 Most of us do not approve of Snyder's modus operandi - I do not think that means we are all not loyal to our team
c) I think that most of what is really going on at Redskins Park and behind the scenes is just guesswork here some of that guesswork is really stupid IMO
d) for the most part I find your "debates" include the good and the bad

Snyder in my opinion has made a lot of mistakes with the team but I think he has shown recently that he has learned from that and IMO he has let Gibbs run this team since he got back into coaching. I think that Gibbs insisted that if he was going to be the HC here then he was going to be in charge.

If Gibbs has allowed Snyder to participate in managing or being a part of the team deals then those decisions that Snyder makes are done ONLY with Gibbs approval.

I really think we will see this team back on track soon and IMO Snyder will not deserve any more credit for that than he deserves all of the "responsibility" for the position we are in now! This "situation" was also due to some bad coaching and playing not just because of "stupid" Snyder and "crazy" Cerrato

[Redskin in Canada]

The reason I think that Cerrato will not be here in June is that the draft will be over and Snyder and Gibbs are now realizing that they need to "manage" the team differently than they have done in the past. I am not sure how that will shake out but I just do not see Cerrato staying because he also should realize that he's not helping by staying in that position.

This is it. I would not want anything else but to believe (or better yet, be certain) that this is going to happen. If some of us are a bit in the dark about what exactly goes on in the Front Office, how can you be so sure or even suspect that this is going to happen after the Draft?

My theory is a bit different. I agree that there are rumours going around and that Joe Gibbs may have come to our same conclusion about the ineffectiveness of Cerrato from first hand experience. But this decision is for Snyder to make in the end without a doubt.

While the decision is not made and announced, it is not a bad idea to suggest to Mr. Snyder that if he does not take action very soon:

1) His image as a terrible owner will be further ridiculed.
2) The team will not receive the benefit of timely advice and talent evaluation.
3) He may be held responsible for tarnishing the image of a HOF coach.
4) He may face a revolt from Redskins fans.

and perhaps most importantly

5) His pocket book will suffer.

Peolple in Redskin Park do visit ALL Redskins websites, you know. Sometimes just to "borrow" ideas but they do visit.

[Irn-Bru]

If Vinny Cerrato leaves, "leaves", or is really and outright fired, all of Washington, D.C. will throw a party. I don't think that it's going to happen, though.

No disrespect to you, SkinsJock; I truly hope that you're right.

[SkinsJock]

None taken FFA! I do understand RiC's (and many others) frustration with Snyder and while I know very little about Snyder I do think he did not get to where he is by being completely blind about what is going on around him! Because of how he has behaved recently - I have very little concern about Snyder with regards to "the team on the field" EXCEPT for his loyalty to Cerrato

Regarding Cerrato - I just think that "the blush is off that rose" and while he should have been replaced a long while ago, Snyder (inexplicably, I agree) has kept him on in spite of all that has happened - I can only surmise that this is because Snyder has felt that his (Cerrato) financial input to our cap situation has been what has kept him here. The cap situation is now getting to an area that the financial wizardry is no longer as critical and we will soon see Cerrato as an ex employee IMHO

I think the biggest problem we all have is that IMO Cerrato knows a lot about the financial side of this team but nothing about the players. He is in a position that that lack of knowledge is very hurtful to our "progress".

I am hoping that Gibbs will get that assistance from the person (or persons) they bring in to replace Cerrato.