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Post by Fios »

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Fios wrote:[quote="tcwest10"I see nothing wrong with what Imus said


I'm not arguing there should be any legal penalty, he should be fired or even anyone should be particularly upset for what he said for the reasons you said.

But just on a personal level, I am asking you don't think calling college students nappy headed hos is wrong? I think he should apologize and people should move on. I think I've established I'm not the PC police pretty thoroughly (as have you), but I do think that was in poor taste and deserves an apology.

I mentioned earlier a separate issue on the reporting by the media versus Rush or a conservative, but that's another issue we aren't discussing and I'm not discussing it, just registering I have it.


I don't think comedians should be apologizing for anything, they are comedians for god's sake. They aren't leaders or philosophers or teachers or scientists or doctors, they are people who tell jokes for a living. So a cantankerous old man called some black women "nappy headed hos"? And? Are we so fragile as a people that our collective psyches are collectively and irrevocably scarred until the bad old man says "I'm sorry"? Yuck ... if this is the path we are headed down as a nation, we are screwed.
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Post by KazooSkinsFan »

Fios wrote:
KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Fios wrote:[quote="tcwest10"I see nothing wrong with what Imus said


I'm not arguing there should be any legal penalty, he should be fired or even anyone should be particularly upset for what he said for the reasons you said.

But just on a personal level, I am asking you don't think calling college students nappy headed hos is wrong? I think he should apologize and people should move on. I think I've established I'm not the PC police pretty thoroughly (as have you), but I do think that was in poor taste and deserves an apology.

I mentioned earlier a separate issue on the reporting by the media versus Rush or a conservative, but that's another issue we aren't discussing and I'm not discussing it, just registering I have it.


I don't think comedians should be apologizing for anything, they are comedians for god's sake. They aren't leaders or philosophers or teachers or scientists or doctors, they are people who tell jokes for a living. So a cantankerous old man called some black women "nappy headed hos"? And? Are we so fragile as a people that our collective psyches are collectively and irrevocably scarred until the bad old man says "I'm sorry"? Yuck ... if this is the path we are headed down as a nation, we are screwed.


I don't know their egos were fragile. If they were really public personalities it would have been nothing. The only reason I thought it was inappropriate is they are just college students who are athletes. They are kids playing amateur sports. It's not like someone who goes into professional politics or entertainment to me.

Anyway, our difference is so minor it doesn't really matter anyway. If I were them I'd just think he's a jerk.
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Post by KazooSkinsFan »

Fios wrote:I don't think comedians should be apologizing for anything, they are comedians for god's sake. They aren't leaders or philosophers or teachers or scientists or doctors, they are people who tell jokes for a living. So a cantankerous old man called some black women "nappy headed hos"? And? Are we so fragile as a people that our collective psyches are collectively and irrevocably scarred until the bad old man says "I'm sorry"? Yuck ... if this is the path we are headed down as a nation, we are screwed.


Not to say my point on the amateur athletes was wrong, but after hearing Sharpton, Jackson and the statements of the Rutgers team, I mean COME ON!!!!! Their statements are so ludicrous and overblown my points are totally irrelevant in context. So now I'm with you, he did "nothing wrong"

From Neal Boortz, master of sensitivity

Apparently Imus called the Rutgers woman's basketball team a bunch of "nappy headed hos." Not good. Stupid even. But correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Stevie Wonder have some song in which he referred to himself as a "nappy headed little boy"? And is it not true that you can hear black women referred to as "hos" on virtually any urban hip hop station on any given day? Stevie Wonder is black, as are the rappers who denigrate black women with abandon. They're allowed. The real issue here is that the words were spoken by someone-not-black.

Was it a stupid thing to say? Absolutely. Do virtually all talk show host say something stupid once in a while? You bet. We don't have the advantages that a columnist might have. We don't have an editor to ask "are you sure you really want to say that?" We can't put our extemporaneous comments down on paper and then kick back with a gin martini to read them to see how they'll play out on the air. If we want to have a modicum of entertainment value to our shows we're going to have to tiptoe through a rhetorical pasture every day. Every once in a while we stray off the path and step in something. I've done it. Every host I know has done it.
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Post by Fios »

Exactly, it's the sheer amount of sanctimonious garbage floating on the shallow pool of this event that irks me the most. On one hand you have the totally disingenuous white guilt that makes people feel as if they have to condemn events like this one as if that somehow proves their own lack of racism.
However, I can assure you a significant number of the purportedly "outraged" people would lose their minds if lil' Suzy brought home a black boyfriend. This event is portrayed as if the minute Imus uttered his bad joke (and I mean bad as in the joke itself wasn't that funny) all right-minded people careened into ditches and wept and questioned the sanctity of life. We have to run off and tell an authority figure what the bad comedian said. It's just disgusting to me.
Then you have these pariahs like Sharpton who engage in such rampant hypocrisy and are given a free pass because we (again, white people) are so terrified of calling him out on his behavior. We're becoming a nation of second-graders where everyone is a tattle-tale and every perceived slight requires apology tours and press conferences and meetings and rehab and, finally, healing (yes, I had all of those things in second grade).

Quotes like this one make me want to throw up:

One question remains, though: Why would Imus think to use the word "ho" to describe those young women from Rutgers -- or, for that matter, to describe any women?

The word is an abbreviation of "whore" that was introduced to the popular lexicon by hip-hop music and that appears to have become firmly established. We know what the word used to mean, but it's not so clear just what it means now.

Rappers use it as basically a synonym for "woman," but their lyrics are so focused on sex that the word retains the connotation of loose morals. The word is often used these days in contexts where that sexual connotation is ignored. It's still there, though.

It's easy to surmise that Imus came out with the word "ho" because hip-hop is an African American art form and he associated the word with black women. He knew nothing about those women from Rutgers, except that they were black. It's hard to imagine him describing, say, a Swedish basketball team as a bunch of "stringy-haired hos."

That's something for Imus to think about as he performs the ritual public examination of his soul -- and fights to keep his job. Meanwhile, the rest of us should banish that hateful word "ho" from the language.


That's from a column by Washington Post columnist Eugene Robinson and it's just infuriating to me.

First, Eugene, thanks for the etymology lesson, I assumed he was calling them nappy headed shovels. You're so deep man.

Secondly, you point out that rappers constantly use that word (and much worse) but you don't bother to condemn them for it at all, in any fashion. So it isn't even the degradation of women that bothers you, it's the fact that a white man said it, apparently if you're black, it's cool.

Third, of course he wouldn't' describe a team of Swedish women that way because 1) this is America and 2) THAT'S NOT FUNNY. He was going for laughs you pretentious hack. Lastly, he calls for a word to be banned ... he is a JOURNALIST FOR GOD'S SAKE. Sweet mother of whatever, there is no profession (aside from comedian) that should be more on the side of Imus right now. To call for him to be censored and for words to be banned is stunning to me, Robinson should just admit he's less interested in free speech and more interested in telling everyone what to think.
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Post by tcwest10 »

I actually got a chuckle while reading 'stringy-haired swede'.
"Nappy-haired ho" means nothing to me.
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Post by Cappster »

I think the real "nappy headed ho" is Imus himself.


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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

I don't think he needs to be fired. It was intended to be a "joke". The thing is, it wasn't even funny. Maybe I don't get the humor.

But I also think that being called nappy strikes a cord with a lot of black women. There's A LOT of different views on hair within the black community.
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Post by Fios »

For the record, I'm not arguing that what Imus did was smart, I am taking issue with the reaction
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Post by UK Skins Fan »

I'm still struggling with the translation here - just what the heck is "nappy" supposed to mean in this context? Not a term that's made into the consciousness of white middle England yet.
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Post by KazooSkinsFan »

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I don't think he needs to be fired. It was intended to be a "joke". The thing is, it wasn't even funny. Maybe I don't get the humor.

But I also think that being called nappy strikes a cord with a lot of black women. There's A LOT of different views on hair within the black community.


I agree it's just not funny, but the part I have a hard time understanding is so many of these terms you hear in the black community constantly and it's nothing and when someone white says it there's such a hysterical reaction like this.

Either nappy headed and ho are offensive or they're not. Why is it only offensive if a white says it?

There are things whites get upset being called, but I can't think of anything we're OK with if a white says it and not OK if someone else does.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

UK Skins Fan wrote:I'm still struggling with the translation here - just what the heck is "nappy" supposed to mean in this context? Not a term that's made into the consciousness of white middle England yet.


I'll try to explain it. None of this neccesarily is how I feel but are reasons why it's an issue towards blacks.

1. If you look in high fashion mags, you don't really see too many black women without perms. Some feel that kinky aka nappy hair is frowned upon. So you have people born with this hair that feel insecure about it.

2. Black womens hair is naturally kinky aka nappy. Nappy can be associated with being unkept. So does that mean black womens hair naturally is unkept?

3. Black women have to perm their hair. Some black have issue with this. They say the women are trying to be "white". They feel whats wrong with how God made you? A perm is HELLA HARSH on the hair. It's so harsh that the person applying the perm has to wear gloves, YET the person getting it has it soaking into the most porous part of their body. (not supposed to be left in long)

4. Having "good hair" is a big thing. I grew up being told I had a great grain of hair and that I was lukcy..... Nappy is looked down upon.

5. Then you even run into the whole black on black racism thing. Darker skinned blacks hate lighter skinned blacks. In High School I had a school Admin tell me I shocked him. He told me he had me wrong and that he disliked most "light skinned" blacks cus they were a certain way.


I'm not saying it's right, but there are a lot of things that I see that fires this.
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Post by REDEEMEDSKIN »

Cappster wrote:I think the real "nappy headed ho" is Imus himself.

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WRONG!!! Clearly, he's more of the "stringy-haired swede" type. :lol:
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

KazooSkinsFan wrote:I agree it's just not funny, but the part I have a hard time understanding is so many of these terms you hear in the black community constantly and it's nothing and when someone white says it there's such a hysterical reaction like this.


Thats a touchy issue. Some blacks feel we shouldn't use the term "nigga", that our ancestors fought for us yet we still label ourselves in niggers...

Some feel that there's a distinction. You got niggers and nigga's. I know it sounds stupid but it is what it is. Nigger is the racial term. If you hear a black person say "my nigga" then it's just like saying "my brotha". Having a white guy walk up to me saying "wsup my nigga?"....that'd be tad awkward. :lol:

I will say that I have a problem with a lot of commercial rap music that degrades women and people.


KazooSkinsFan wrote:Either nappy headed and ho are offensive or they're not. Why is it only offensive if a white says it?


Ho, is definitely offensive on its own. I think when he threw in the nappy headed part is when it started to cross into the "race" boundary. Plus he was using the term jiggaboo at some point.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

Last post without a reply I swear but here's some more insight into racial tensions within the black community.

My mother is VERY VERY fair skinned. Dont know how but she is. No she's not an albino. She's so fair skinned that when I was real young I asked her if she was white.

But I found out from my brother why I dont know her side of the family. Some of her cousins tried to kill/severely injure her as a child out of jealousy. You know these amusement rides that twirl in a circles while weaving in and out of each other? Either they tried, or succeeded (can't remember) in ejecting her from it. Why? Because of her skin complexion. I caught the same flak growing up although not to that extent and I'm darker than my mom. Plus our eyes don't help the matter. lol.

There's some deep stuff that still goes on, some deep feelings. I don't know what it'd take to overcome them but simply telling people to get over it isn't the answer.
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Post by Steve Spurrier III »

I guess I don't quite understand how this comment was racist. I understand the term "ho" being offensive, but nappy? Don't some of these girls have nappy hair? What am I missing?

If it were women marching in the streets I would understand, but I just don't see how this is a race issue.
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Post by tcwest10 »

I'm glad to see that there are those among us that agree that Imus
should not be fired for this. I'm not ready to jump on the boat carrying
the "no big deal" cargo, though.

It is a big deal...but not for Sharpton, and not for Jackson. Those
two birds shouldn't be speaking for any group that has not elected them to any particular office that would require any more than just their own
casual (and personal) input. Simply being men of color and (in)famous
should not qualify them to speak on behalf of any "community"...much
less one that makes up nearly 1/3 of our national population. There's too
much diversity there for any one self-appointed mouthpiece. I doubt
Sharpton could accurately portray the views of the people in the studio at
the time of his (ahem) "interview" with Imus, much less an
entire ethnic group.

Again, what he said was wrong. It doesn't matter where the phrase
originated. As an adult, he should know that you can't just spew every
little thing that pops into your head. Imus is long past his days as a
carefree DJ whose bag is simple comedy, Fios. Opie and Anthony, this
ain't. When you consider that his daily guests include current and former
Senators and Congressmen, Presidential candidates, Governors and high-
profile journalists, you almost have to hold him to a higher standard than, say, Howard Stern. In my view, however, context is key here. Imus
wasn't interviewing anyone at that time. It's not as if he were in the
middle of discussing Harold Ford Jr.'s failed campaign and popped up with the N-word, or related to the loss with some ill-conceived, on-the-spot rap
that summed up his feelings on the whole thing. It wasn't like that at all. What it was, from where I sat, was four men sitting around commenting
on a sport that has only recently begun to garner any consideration at all in a radio show that isn't predominately(yes, the spelling is correct. Look
it up) sports-oriented in the first place. In fact, they never really mention
women's basketball on any level unless, as was the case here, it
happened to be a playoff/championship type game (or a generally slow day in sports news). This is also the portion of the show that Imus usually only chimes in to make a wiseacre remark, anyway...most often preferring to berate the poor man that handles the sports report for him. What I saw was, when Bernard made his initial comment after Imus' "tattoo" remark, Imus was compelled to take it to the next level, to try and elicit some more laughter....to be the funniest guy in the room. Everywhere you go, you see that happen when four men with nothing better to do get together in a room and talk about sports in general...but women's sports in particular. It just hasn't evolved the the point where most men sit around and discuss the topic with the same gravity as, say, Lakers-Heat...if it's discussed at all. I'm just as guilty, on that count. If I ever watched women's tennis, it was because there was a really good chance I'd see her underwear. :)
It's sad to see that, in an effort to finally have some tangible accountability
for the degradation that women (one mustn't be black to be a proper 'ho, you know) suffer through the use of such phrases, we seem perfectly willing to let a 70-year old man be publicly pilloried...as if he alone were responsible for all of it.
I think the suspension, and the damage to his credibility, is punishment enough for his "sin"...and maybe, too much. Think about it. What are the chances of a complete recovery for him, career-wise? What aspiring candidate for any higher office (which is really the lifebood of the
program)would dare been seen or heard on his show now, or in the near
future? What major sponsor would still pay huge money for a thirty-
second spot on his program now, which will be branded as racist? Finally,
the very atmosphere of "Imus In The Morning" is forever altered. The
barbed attacks, the one-liners, the taunts...all will be run through the
same fine sieve for political correctness. The very thing that draws the
huge audience will now be muted and watered down, and his ratings will
eventually falter. Imus, without the razor-sharp tongue, is just another
rancher with an opinion...and you know what they say about those.

Don Imus must now suffer the consequence of his mistake. I think any
reasonable person would feel some pity, if not compassion, for what now
awaits him. All he has ever done, and will ever do, is now tainted by the
folly of three stupid words that should never have been uttered, and I
hope he continues to face the music with the courage and dignity he's
shown thus far.

Go ahead. Put the rope around his neck...but for Christ's sake, don't slap
the horse. Let him think about it for a little while, and help him down. He's
in a unique position to make some good from all this, and should be
given the benefit of a doubt.

/rant
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Post by Redskins Rule »

KazooSkinsFan wrote:
Cappster wrote:
UK Skins Fan wrote:I'm not really sure what a "nappy headed ho" is supposed to be. :hmm:


He was referring to all of the black women on the team. It is a degrading remark. Especially when it comes from a white person.


I'm sure the good liberal Imus would have supported a Republican who said something stupid like that.

ROTFALMAO

Sorry, just cracking myself up. Now watch the liberal media and all the liberals who would be in rabid hysteria over a Republican saying something like this go all postal on lib Imus to demonstrate their intellectual integrity and genuine concern over his statements.

ROTFALMAO

Sorry, did it again.


ROTFALMAO

Only you could take a topic about Imus making a smart ass remark and turn it into liberal vs. conservative!
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Post by Redskin in Canada »

tcwest10 wrote:I'm glad to see that there are those among us that agree that Imus should not be fired for this. I'm not ready to jump on the boat carrying the "no big deal" cargo, though.

Imus is not the first and he will not be the last to have his entire reputation severely damaged due to a remark of that nature. It might be unfair if a person acknowledges as a grave mistake, apologises, learns from it and acts accordingly in the future but that is the way it is. Some people have long memories for things like these ones.

I know some people in NY that still remember the statement made in the plane by Jessee Jackson that brought his Presidential campaign to a halt. Do you remember what kind of "town" did he call NY?

Does anybody remember the late Jimmy "The Greek" and why he stopped showing his face on TV? Sometimes a single insult or an insensitive statement can destroy an entire career.

I am no Imus fan. I disliked his style of making fun of Joe Gibbs when he interviewed Terry Bradshaw some time ago. It is going to be a tough climb out of this hole this time around though.

Experiences like this one should make each and every one of us aware about the importance and power of words.
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Post by Chris Luva Luva »

Redskin in Canada wrote:
I know some people in NY that still remember the statement made in the plane by Jessee Jackson that brought his Presidential campaign to a halt. Do you remember what kind of "town" did he call NY?


Sadly we have nothing to fire Jesse from.... :twisted:


The more I think about this the more I feel he definitely shouldn't be fired. He's just being used as a scapegoat because black folk didn't want to look in the mirror and admit who the real problem is. It's not Imus, who is he? He's nobody. The problem with us, is us. We're on our worst enemy and before we can stop asking other people to disrespecting, who about we stop disrespecting ourselves.

* I need to hear the sound byte because my cousin told me that it was actually funny.
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Post by gibbs4president »

I really tried to read that rant at the top of this page, but I almost went blind about half-way through...

I'm not sure about Imus being fired, but I do know that once the whole thing started rolling downhill, it wasn't going to stop until he was. I thought at least a long suspension would fulfill punishment here, but apparently I was wrong.
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Post by Countertrey »

Imus is a jerk, has been a jerk his entire career, and will likely continue to be a jerk... his show of this morning demonstrates that he has learned nothing.

He contributes nothing to the air waves. His charitable activities are nothing but a means to license his demeaning and insulting, sometimes slanderous mouth. It's about time this caught up to him.

It's unfortunate, however, that others who have similar histories, such as Sharpton, just go on and on. His hypocracy is beyond believability.
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Post by Fios »

Even if he is a jerk (and I don't listen to his show) the backlash is rife with hypocrisy. I am loathe to agree with Jason Whitlock about anything but he is 100% correct about this.



Imus certainly doesn’t resonate in the world frequented by college women. The insistence by these young women that they have been emotionally scarred by an old white man with no currency in their world is laughably dishonest.

The Rutgers players are nothing more than pawns in a game being played by Jackson, Sharpton and Stringer.

Jesse and Al are flexing their muscle and setting up their next sting. Bringing down Imus, despite his sincere attempts at apologizing, would serve notice to their next potential victim that it is far better to pay up than stand up to Jesse and Al James.

Stringer just wanted her 15 minutes to make the case that she’s every bit as important as Pat Summitt and Geno Auriemma. By the time Stringer’s rambling, rapping and rhyming 30-minute speech was over, you’d forgotten that Tennessee won the national championship and just assumed a racist plot had been hatched to deny the Scarlet Knights credit for winning it all.
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Post by gibbs4president »

Thanks for posting that article Fios, I used to read some of articles for ESPN before they kicked him off for some things he said/wrote about Scoop Jackson...
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Post by gibbs4president »

I meant to say more after reading the whole article. Whitlock also wrote:

We can’t win the war over verbal disrespect and racism when we have so obviously and blatantly surrendered the moral high ground on the issue. Jesse and Al might win the battle with Imus and get him fired or severely neutered. But the war? We don’t stand a chance in the war. Not when everybody knows “nappy-headed ho’s” is a compliment compared to what we allow black rap artists to say about black women on a daily basis.
We look foolish and cruel for kicking a man who went on Sharpton’s radio show and apologized. Imus didn’t pull a Michael Richards and schedule an interview on Letterman. Imus went to the Black vice president’s house, acknowledged his mistake and asked for forgiveness.



Many people here might not pay attention to women's basketball, I really don't, but the whole issue made almost everyone forget that Tennessee had actually won the NCAA tournament and not Rutgers.

Anyway, it was a good article. And if simply being a jerk or saying some insensitive things means you get kicked off the airwaves, then there's a lot more people who need to go.
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