The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:We underrate Betts. He averaged 4.7 per last year, better than Portis has ever done here,

I'd like to see the difference in YPC between when MB04 was there and when JC took over. It's EASIER to run when you don't have 20 guys in the tackle box because they know your QB can't throw past his nose.

crazyhorse1 wrote:and is a much better pass receiver than Portis.

Better? Yes. Much better? Not by much.

crazyhorse1 wrote:He also has better eyes than Portis and hits the holes quicker.

IMO, Portis is too fast for our linemen.


My point is that it's unfair to judge the two because they played in two entirely different circumstances.

- CP has to play with 900 guys in the tackle box
- CP set an all-time Skins record
- CP took this team on its back with an at best mediocre passing game in 2005 to the playoffs.
- CP is a better blocker
- CP is knocks LB's out cold
- CP demands the attention of the defense and opens up the passing game. Betts does not garner the same attention but may get it eventually and we'll see how he does then.

Put CP in the game with JC where a defense KNOW's that Jason will pull the trigger. They CAN'T focus on CP anymore. CP is faster, more agile, he has homerun ability AND DOES NOT FUMBLE THE BALL.
Put CP in that situation and he'll beat out Betts every time.

Oh no! Somebody didn't kiss Clinton Portis' butt again! Everybody better make excuses for him!

Good point, way to refute the points CLL made ... oh wait, you did none of that

brad7686 wrote:Oh no! Somebody didn't kiss Clinton Portis' butt again! Everybody better make excuses for him!

So prove what I said wrong. Break down my post and debate it. Most of what I said about CP is fact. And I wasn't really bashing Betts but just saying to put CP in the same situation and see what he does.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Oh no! Somebody didn't kiss Clinton Portis' butt again! Everybody better make excuses for him!

So prove what I said wrong. Break down my post and debate it. Most of what I said about CP is fact. And I wasn't really bashing Betts but just saying to put CP in the same situation and see what he does.

If anything, I only thought you were hard on CP as a receiver. True he's not going to catch passes down the field in any receiver capacity but he's fine coming out of the backfield. But I'm totally with you that CP as a runner is far better and more accomplished then Betts and you are dead on with the number of guys in the box CP did it against. Clearly with MB the other teams dared Brunell to beat them, and he didn't.

CP is a great runner and can catch dump offs, Betts is a very good runner and a much better receiver. Seems to me that makes CP a good 1st and 2nd down runner and Betts a good 3rd down and give CP occasional rest back? Maybe that's what the coaches were thinking wanting them both?

Neither of us are dissing Betts, but if anyone really thinks Betts is the better 1st and 2nd down runner all I can say is

Englands Team wrote:Portis and Betts next season.

It will be like Mack and Byner from the Browns. A great way for Campbell to learn at his own pace. Passing when we want to pass.

QFT. I expect Campbell to have a Top 10 QB Rating with the luxury he is given by such a talented combo of running backs. But as others have mentioned, my only concern is with Betts' ball control.

And even then, Portis will be largely the cause of that, as Chris Luva Luva eloquently described above.

That said, I have to tip my hat to Betts for not making a big stink about money or anything--he easily could start for an NFL team, considering some of the ridiculous RB free agents/trading that has been going on in the NFL the past two months. I think that he is an example of the championship, team-first attitude that Gibbs has been trying to cultivate since he came back.

Gibbs4Prez wrote:

Englands Team wrote:Portis and Betts next season.

It will be like Mack and Byner from the Browns. A great way for Campbell to learn at his own pace. Passing when we want to pass.

QFT. I expect Campbell to have a Top 10 QB Rating with the luxury he is given by such a talented combo of running backs. But as others have mentioned, my only concern is with Betts' ball control.

Someone needs to get Tiki down here and show Betts whatever method he was shown.

I don't care how many yards he gets, if he's consistently turning the ball over and sometimes for 7 points he's no good to us. Hopefully he'll work on this in the off season cus he showed some good things last year. He doesn't want the coaches to hold their breaths every time they call his #.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

brad7686 wrote:Oh no! Somebody didn't kiss Clinton Portis' butt again! Everybody better make excuses for him!

So prove what I said wrong. Break down my post and debate it. Most of what I said about CP is fact. And I wasn't really bashing Betts but just saying to put CP in the same situation and see what he does.

If anything, I only thought you were hard on CP as a receiver. True he's not going to catch passes down the field in any receiver capacity but he's fine coming out of the backfield. But I'm totally with you that CP as a runner is far better and more accomplished then Betts and you are dead on with the number of guys in the box CP did it against. Clearly with MB the other teams dared Brunell to beat them, and he didn't.

CP is a great runner and can catch dump offs, Betts is a very good runner and a much better receiver. Seems to me that makes CP a good 1st and 2nd down runner and Betts a good 3rd down and give CP occasional rest back? Maybe that's what the coaches were thinking wanting them both?

Neither of us are dissing Betts, but if anyone really thinks Betts is the better 1st and 2nd down runner all I can say is

Sometimes i really think that nobody watched the last half of the season last year. You can blame it on "Fear of Campbell" all you want, but betts ran the ball down every teams throat without prejudice. Im not saying that CP is bad all i am saying is give Betts some credit for once. I always hear about how much betts fumbles and whatnot but never hear how portis doesnt let blocks develop, cant catch, and often misses the hole if it is open.

You're also not acknowledging the fact that the o-line actually started to play with some cohesion and consistency after Portis was injured. You also aren't acknowledging that of the last four opponents Betts faced, none had a rushing defense ranked higher than 23rd. I am thrilled to have Betts on the roster, I love the way he runs. But what makes me most excited is that he is the second option and that the Skins have a top-tier RB ahead of him in Portis.

brad7686 wrote:You can blame it on "Fear of Campbell" all you want, but betts ran the ball down every teams throat without prejudice.

Fear of Campbell..... No, it's called stretching the field. It's a very real component of the game that came into play when JC started passing the ball more the 4 yards.

Betts ran the ball down peoples throat? And.....? Who is trying to take that away from him? Nobody. We're simply saying that Portis is more than capable of doing the same thing.

brad7686 wrote:I always hear about how much betts fumbles and whatnot but never hear how portis doesnt let blocks develop, cant catch, and often misses the hole if it is open.

Yet Portis out rushed all RB's in the history of the team..... You don't hear that non-sense you just spewed because Portis has been a beast for us.

Betts hasn''t until this last year. Let's wait until Betts consecutively produces great seasons. Lets wait until he shows that he won't produce the greatest sin RB can commit and the thing everyone says Joe hates, turning the ball over. Let's hold out before we crown him the best there ever was.

Debate that.

Note I started this rant in defense of Portis, I haven't taken away anything from Betts and can't wait to see the tandem. But he is no CP.

amen to that!

Quote:never hear how portis doesnt let blocks develop, cant catch, and often misses the hole if it is open

I've seen CP catch some wild passes, overthrown, underthrown, etc...
Betts does hit the hole good and usually gets through good. I saw him get cought from behind by linebackers often, his speed doesn't come close to Portis.

When Betts gets through the hole you see 6,7 even 10-15 yards at times. If Portis gets through it's a touchdown, and the safties better be awake.

I like the way Betts hits the hole, and its true sometimes Portis don't. But I saw that more when he first arrived in Washington. He does a good job of that now. And with his speed you never want to miss a play when Portis is in.

Thats my

I don't know i think i appreciate different running styles, I like backs that always fall forward and can move the chains, I hate seeing 1 and 2 yard runs because they accomplish nothing. Thats why i liked Stephen Davis so much. Its true that Portis has a better chance of breaking one but how often does that happen? He really doesn't break off THAT many huge runs.

brad7686 wrote:I don't know i think i appreciate different running styles, I like backs that always fall forward and can move the chains, I hate seeing 1 and 2 yard runs because they accomplish nothing. Thats why i liked Stephen Davis so much. Its true that Portis has a better chance of breaking one but how often does that happen? He really doesn't break off THAT many huge runs.

You must not have watched the 2005 highlight video.

Lets see how he does with the improved offense and how he many runs he breaks off because the safeties can't crowd the line of scrimmage.

I like both Portis and Betts for what they both bring to the table. Betts is a great 3rd down back and he provides relief if Portis were to get hurt again. The only negative aspect is his fumbles, and I'm sure that's something he's going to try and fix before the season resumes.

Portis is the better game breaker, and I would rather have him in the game than Betts. But Betts does bring a lot of positives to this team, and they both have value and are definitely important to the team.

The only thing Betts needs to adopt is a variety of characters to rival Coach Janky Spanky or Dollah Bill, etc. Maybe he could get in some Eastern Motors commercials too.

gibbs4president wrote:The only thing Betts needs to adopt is a variety of characters to rival Coach Janky Spanky or Dollah Bill, etc. Maybe he could get in some Eastern Motors commercials too.

Betts reminds me somewhat of Byner, although he (like all players today) is a bit heavier.

Betts and Riggins? No comparison, but he does give the Redskins a change-up, just as Joe Washington and John Riggins gave the Skins two different styles.

By the way, Riggins was pretty fast when he was younger. Sorry to disagree with Crazy. Riggins was a high school sprint champ, I believe. Even later, with the Redskins, I remember him turning a corner and out-running the entire Cowboys team during the heart-killer loss in '79...a win clinches a playoff...Mr Midshipman Comeback leads the Cowboys to a last-minute TD...Joe T leads the Redsklins back downfield and the officials refuse to allow a last-second FG try...(foggy memory).

Still, I think Larry Brown was the best Redskin runner I've seen, which reaches back to about 1954 or '55. Brown could accelerate so fast that his blockers, who were mediocre, only had to hold their blocks for a blink of an eye. Hauss snaps the ball, Sonny or Billy hands off, and Brown is through the line before you realize that the QB has even taken the snap.

And Brown was such a good receiver that Allen considered moving him to WR...after Allen had run Brown's knees to pieces. (A little late, but a good idea, maybe.). Even though Allen hated...no, feared...running an offense, he couldn't make the early '70's Redskins offense plain enough to fit his taste. Brown running left or right. Brown catching passes and going 60 yards after the catch. Pass to Charley Taylor. Pass to Jerry Smith, the finest pass-catching TE the Redskins ever had. Pass to Roy Jefferson, who was only a little slower and smaller than Taylor...

Just imagine if they had had the Hogs, with Gibbs and Bugel designing the plays.

Oh, and remember, Redskin fans, that Brown was a blocking back in college.

Just taking advantage of an excuse to talk about Larry Brown, by the way. Too many people aren't old enough to have seen him, but consider...and, yes, I've said this before: I heard Jim Brown, the greatest all-time runner, interviewed just after he retired. They asked, "Who, now, is as good as you?" Brown said, of course, "Nobody. But Larry Brown can do some things I could never do. He's the only one."

No doubt, it is good to have Betts and Portis.