The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Exactly but what I'm hearing is Williams knows that he can mold this guy. He's super smart, athletic, and young. A hell of a combination. I think we would have to trade down to 10ish to get him. He'll be gone by the mid teens.

Countertrey wrote:

Is one draft pick going to single-handedly transform the D-line in his first season? I think not.

While you are dead on on the Bly issue, you are dead wrong on this. A single, dominant D-lineman, either tackle or end, can change the entire D-line.

Any lineman who can demand the attention of two or three offensive players free's up someone else. A dominant D-tackle who can consistently collapse or push back the pocket, makes everyone else better. Same for a D-end.

One draft pick can absolutely single-handedly transform the D-line in his first season.

In fact, it's the one component of any team where that is most likely to happen... it has the shortest learning curve of all the positions, especially in a 4-3.

Drafting an impact d-lineman this year is mandatory! And, we wont do it from the 21st selection position.

Let's listen to the vet on this one; he's totally correct. Getting Anderson, Adams, or Branch should be the priority.

Mursilis wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Drafting an impact d-lineman this year is mandatory! And, we wont do it from the 21st selection position.

Maybe, maybe not. The No. 1 overall selection last year (Mario Williams) was only 5th among rookies in sacks (4.5 sacks), while the rookie sack leader (Mark Anderson) was only a 5th round pick. He had 12 sacks, more than anyone on our entire team, and more than half our team total!

There's always a freak out there that everyone misses, but I don't count on us getting one. Neither should anyone else.

[quote="crazyhorse1"][quote="Mursilis"][quote="Countertrey"]Drafting an impact d-lineman this year is mandatory! And, we wont do it from the 21st selection position.[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not. The No. 1 overall selection last year (Mario Williams) was only 5th among rookies in sacks (4.5 sacks), while the rookie sack leader (Mark Anderson) was only a 5th round pick. He had 12 sacks, more than anyone on our entire team, and more than half our team total![/quote]

There's always a freak out there that everyone misses, but I don't count on us getting one. Neither should anyone else.[/quote]

I agree there are freaks out there that people miss but it isn't something you bank on. It is something you are thrilled with if it actually happens. As far as last year goes, Mark Anderson had a perfect situation granted he did great. He played on a line that was already great and fixed with Ogunleye and Brown with Harris in the middle (till he went down). He is a fast lineman who came in on third down and was always fresh. Great pass rusher but we need a guy to play every down, we are not at the liberty to have only a 3rd down rusher

Houligan26 wrote:We all like the sound of that but games are won in the trenches.

True, but not always. First, I'm all for getting a stud on the d-line. But if your d-line is suspect, then the 2nd tier are the LB's. We all know Williams likes to blitz LB's and corners to get pressure on the QB. He's always done that even with a solid d-line. Then if both units break down, you'd better hope for some help over the top in the form of a solid secondary, something we didn't have last year.

But I agree, Houligan, let's hope for some help on the d-line. I read that some folks are curious as to why we haven't addressed that yet. Probably because they are looking to the draft to fill that hole, as they should be. I don't really see why we can't get Bly AND some d-line help.

From last year, the corner upgrade was a must. Kenny wright and mike rumph were as pathetic as the nfl has to offer. They never located the ball, it was sad. On the other hand, I am very happy where we are right now. I don't need bly and I want a stud d lineman. Just look at the big stink bly is making in denver already. He isnt a good enough player to make stinks, already a guy I dont want in my locker room.

I don't need bly and I want a stud d lineman. Just look at the big stink bly is making in denver already. He isnt a good enough player to make stinks, already a guy I dont want in my locker room.

THANK YOU!!!

Houligan26 wrote:From last year, the corner upgrade was a must. Kenny wright and mike rumph were as pathetic as the nfl has to offer. They never located the ball, it was sad. On the other hand, I am very happy where we are right now. I don't need bly and I want a stud d lineman. Just look at the big stink bly is making in denver already. He isnt a good enough player to make stinks, already a guy I dont want in my locker room.

To their defense its hard do that when ur being run ragged for 7 seconds at a time because there is no pass rush.

I have one question about this whole mess, "Is Bly even an improvement over Springs?". I haven't seen much of Bly, but his rap is he gambles a lot. He has a good amount of picks, but hi pass deffenses are average at best and he isn't much of a tackler. Doesn't seem like a fit for GWs system.

If the Broncos end up with our #6 pick, thye will have essentially traded someone that they got with a second round pick (that we should have never given to them) and player that was a 5th round pick to Detroit to get our #6 pick. They give up very little and end up with the 6th pick in the draft. They may have traded for Bly with the intentions all along of getting the #6 pick from us.

Seriously, I will be so disgusted if denver parlays Tatum Bell into a #6 pick. I would actually throw up. Tatum Bell sucks. I think we are all starting to be in agreement that this trade can't happen. For intelligent reasons end for moral reasons. The nfl might look into us being in cahoots with denver to try to make them a winner.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Drafting an impact d-lineman this year is mandatory! And, we wont do it from the 21st selection position.

Maybe, maybe not. The No. 1 overall selection last year (Mario Williams) was only 5th among rookies in sacks (4.5 sacks), while the rookie sack leader (Mark Anderson) was only a 5th round pick. He had 12 sacks, more than anyone on our entire team, and more than half our team total!

There's always a freak out there that everyone misses, but I don't count on us getting one. Neither should anyone else.

Yes, but read all of what I wrote - Williams was only 5th among rookies in sacks, which means not only that Anderson had more, but three other rookies drafted after Williams had more sacks as well. I won't go so far as to call Williams a bust or those other 4 as bona fide stars, because we're just talking about rookies here, but I certainly don't agree that you've got to draft in the top 10 to get a 'stud' DE. It's probably as likely the DE we might get at 6th does at well as the DE we might get at 21st. Heck, lots of good DE's fall out of the 1st round in the draft. Jason Taylor was taken in the 3rd, Aaron Kampman in the 5th, Aaron Schobel in the 2nd, Leonard Little in the 3rd, etc. Any of those non-1st rounders would've lead our team in sacks this past season.

Houligan26 wrote:Seriously, I will be so disgusted if denver parlays Tatum Bell into a #6 pick. I would actually throw up. Tatum Bell sucks. I think we are all starting to be in agreement that this trade can't happen. For intelligent reasons end for moral reasons. The nfl might look into us being in cahoots with denver to try to make them a winner.

I have a REAL BAD feeling, that is what is going to happen!

Countertrey wrote:

I don't need bly and I want a stud d lineman. Just look at the big stink bly is making in denver already. He isnt a good enough player to make stinks, already a guy I dont want in my locker room.

THANK YOU!!!

Folks, you should probably know the facts before you judge Bly

John Elway was Overrated.

[quote="Mursilis"][quote="crazyhorse1"][quote="Mursilis"][quote="Countertrey"]Drafting an impact d-lineman this year is mandatory! And, we wont do it from the 21st selection position.[/quote]

Maybe, maybe not. The No. 1 overall selection last year (Mario Williams) was only 5th among rookies in sacks (4.5 sacks), while the rookie sack leader (Mark Anderson) was only a 5th round pick. He had 12 sacks, more than anyone on our entire team, and more than half our team total![/quote]

There's always a freak out there that everyone misses, but I don't count on us getting one. Neither should anyone else.[/quote]

Yes, but read all of what I wrote - Williams was only [i]5th[/i] among rookies in sacks, which means not only that Anderson had more, but [i]three other rookies[/i] drafted [i]after[/i] Williams had more sacks as well. I won't go so far as to call Williams a bust or those other 4 as bona fide stars, because we're just talking about rookies here, but I certainly don't agree that you've got to draft in the top 10 to get a 'stud' DE. It's probably as likely the DE we might get at 6th does at well as the DE we might get at 21st. Heck, lots of good DE's fall out of the 1st round in the draft. Jason Taylor was taken in the 3rd, Aaron Kampman in the 5th, Aaron Schobel in the 2nd, Leonard Little in the 3rd, etc. Any of those non-1st rounders would've lead our team in sacks this past season.[/quote]

Yes, you can definitely find studs in the later rounds but it isn't something you rely on. We need someone that can step in next year and be a threat. We can't just take a shot in the dark on someone that might be good. We want a guy that we know has all the tools to be great. I can't argue that someone in the fifth round might be better than adams or anderson but if i had to bet on it, I would take adams and anderson

How about this: stop trading picks for fledgling NFL players, stop doing "whatever it takes" for skill position players on the backside of their careers, stop ripping up their contracts before they've ever done anything for you, start signing your own before free agency hits..

How about it? It would make too much sense for Vinny to understand or Danny's wallet to show wisdom and restraint.

I am still hopeful that this will not happennd we might FINALLY have a common sense free agency in quite a long time.

The one nice thing is at least we are in the drivers seat here. If they can ink Blye to a reasonable long term deal and we can get an extra pick out it if I am all for it. Just for dropping 12 picks? Seems like a decent deal IF you can get blye on the cheap. (realize this is a big if)

What makes little sense to me is the trading of Springs AND picks to move up a few spots from 18. I would say trade Springs FOR picks and/or a player if you can make a fair deal. Otherwise - Keep them all. Rogers and Smoot being your nickle/dime guys makes a pretty good scondary.

wormer wrote:The one nice thing is at least we are in the drivers seat here. If they can ink Blye to a reasonable long term deal and we can get an extra pick out it if I am all for it. Just for dropping 12 picks? Seems like a decent deal IF you can get blye on the cheap. (realize this is a big if)

What makes little sense to me is the trading of Springs AND picks to move up a few spots from 18. I would say trade Springs FOR picks and/or a player if you can make a fair deal. Otherwise - Keep them all. Rogers and Smoot being your nickle/dime guys makes a pretty good scondary.

Denver is at #21. The #6 pick is worth 1600 points and the #21 pick is worth 800 points, half of the value of the #6 pick.

As far as us being in the drivers seat, well we were in the driveers seat for the Bailey/Portis trade and the Broncos managed to turn the tables on us with that too. I don't want to hear Bailey didn't want to be hear, it doesn't matter, he was franchised and could go anywhere.

The sticky point in the whole trade (if it happens) is what the teams think Bly is worth in draft value. I would put him at a 2nd or 3rd round pick value. The Ravens just picked up a player of equal or better tallent for this years 3rd and 7th, plus next years 3rd (following year picks are valued as worth one round less). Culpepper, a procowl QB was traded for a 2nd, Corey Dillion was traded for a second, Dre Bly was just traded for players that were taken in the 2nd and 5th round. So what value would you put on him?

As long as we dont give up draft picks I am with it. We always get screwed when we deal with Denver. I say beware.

I think the Blye trade would be a good one. Honestly, the Portis for Baily trade was horrible in retrospect, because top corners are much harder to find than RBs.

Blye is a play maker and turnover machine.....something this defense really needs badly, and he is only 29 easily 3-4 good years left in him (D. Green played until he was 40). With Smoot back in the fold (and I think he is going to have a very good year) and Blye, Rodgers will be a 5 back which is what he has turned out to be....(another questionable high draft pick).

If you can get some value out of Springs (which is probably now or never given his age) and move back up in the first round (or maybe there is a sleeper in the late 1st round, you may still get a good DE in the draft, and you wind up with two very good cover guys (both upgrades from last year).

The #6 pick guarantees nothing. Remember Desmond Howard.....can anyone spell Heath Shuler?

Blye is exactly what this defense needs. A big play guy that is aggressive.

Part of the rumor was that Denver might include a 3rd rounder also. This would help sway me to do the trade. If it was just a swap of picks plus Bly I would probably cringe a little. That's a little steep. If we did that deal, we still wouldn't have any idea what we're doing with Springs 7.5 mil cap hit this year.

Keep Springs maybe.....move him to free safety. Move ST to strong safety, and make Archuleta Danny Boy's 30 mil chauffeur!

ST belongs in the strong safety position. His cover skills aren't his strength, and he always seems just late getting over on the deep stuff. But his hits and play making ability should be moved closer to the point of attack. This to me seems like a no brainer. You want a good cover guy at FS and a big hitter and tackler at SS.

Can you imagine how much havoc ST could bring on screens and middle routs not to mention run plays?

I like the idea of Springs a FS...extend his career an extra 3-4 years. (if we can afford him).

Archuleta is the real kicker here. Worst move the Redskins have made since they let Peirce leave.

RayNAustin wrote:Archuleta is the real kicker here. Worst move the Redskins have made since they let Peirce leave.

Peirce leaving is still trumped by getting Deion and Brunnell.
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If we get some draft picks out of the Bly deal I can see it working to our advantage otherwise we have Smoot which is more than we had last year.

skinsfan#33 wrote:
Denver is at #21. The #6 pick is worth 1600 points and the #21 pick is worth 800 points, half of the value of the #6 pick.

oops. thaught it was 18. Still. 21 is not that bad. At this point, we need picks!

Countertrey wrote:One draft pick can absolutely single-handedly transform the D-line in his first season.

In fact, it's the one component of any team where that is most likely to happen... it has the shortest learning curve of all the positions, especially in a 4-3.

Drafting an impact d-lineman this year is mandatory! And, we wont do it from the 21st selection position.

Yes, you are right, it is possible. But to put all of our draft eggs in one basket and bet on an unproven rookie who will immediately give us a pass rush -- that seems a bit risky to me. There are no guaranteed impact players in the draft. Everyone is a risk. I would rather take two solid defensive linemen lower in the draft (lower first to top of third), hope that both become starters, and hope that at least one surpasses expectations.

I would rather focus on the line than the secondary.