The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsJock wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:We need Snyder to get better advice - this ability seems to have evaded Cerrato - he's like a lot of the players he brings in here - he was good before he came here and not worth much since he got here

I agree, of course with the exception of starters like:

Fletcher
Washington
Albright
Carter
Thrash
Springs
Smoot
Thomas
Sellers
Moss
Portis
ARE
Rabach
Kendall

... because those guys have been pretty solid. And those are just the FA's.

Some of our draft picks over the past decade have been pretty damn good as well.

I prefer to think that a lot of the guys we have here that are decent additions are NOT due to Cerrato and that a lot of the over spending we did for players was because he mistakenly advised Snyder.

He might have been a little helpful on occasion but he also offered terrible advice - he should be out of here for that alone.

You have to keep in mind that there are a lot more recycles than when I was growing up(early 80s). Salary caps, greed, FA, all have a HUGE factor in the change between the generations. A lot of us (I know I do sometimes) forget to keep in current day's context instead of yesteryear.

VetSkinsFan wrote

You have to keep in mind that there are a lot more recycles than when I was growing up(early 80s). Salary caps, greed, FA, all have a HUGE factor in the change between the generations. A lot of us (I know I do sometimes) forget to keep in current day's context instead of yesteryear.

Caps & FA are (relatively) new. Greed is as old as humanity.

Any extra picks would be really welcome this year ( any year in fact ) as it looks as though we`re going to try to do most things through the draft which is exactly what a lot of us have been calling for these past 3-4 years.
As we stand today Hackett is unsigned so needs at WR, S, D-line, O-line and CB are major areas of focus as we get closer to the draft. An additional 3rd rounder would be great for us this year.
Personally, I can`t see us starting with Doughty at Safety next season so i have to think that a first day pick at safety is a certainty , along with WR and D-line - if we get an additional first day pick then probably Guard would be the move. On Day 2 we can concentrate on CB and longer shots at WR , O-line and Zorn needs a QB - i would be looking for a good QB in Rnd 5 but Zorn may see things differently.

Britskin wrote:Any extra picks would be really welcome this year ( any year in fact ) as it looks as though we`re going to try to do most things through the draft which is exactly what a lot of us have been calling for these past 3-4 years.
As we stand today Hackett is unsigned so needs at WR, S, D-line, O-line and CB are major areas of focus as we get closer to the draft. An additional 3rd rounder would be great for us this year.
Personally, I can`t see us starting with Doughty at Safety next season so i have to think that a first day pick at safety is a certainty , along with WR and D-line - if we get an additional first day pick then probably Guard would be the move. On Day 2 we can concentrate on CB and longer shots at WR , O-line and Zorn needs a QB - i would be looking for a good QB in Rnd 5 but Zorn may see things differently.

Doughty played well down the stretch, I can't understand why so many people are so down on hime. I think our 1st day picks will be WR, DL & OL.

yupchagee wrote:Doughty played well down the stretch, I can't understand why so many people are so down on hime. I think our 1st day picks will be WR, DL & OL.

There's no question he made a few plays, but many just don't see him as a starting caliber safety. I think they'll add a safety, somewhere along the way, to compete with Doughty.

Zorn on the subject from the combine. If we get an extra 3rd round pick, it could be a good place to grab one. I KNOW THEY HAVE OTHER NEEDS, but the organization has mentioned safety as an area of need several times. That leads me to believe they'll attempt to get one. There are a handful of decent safeties that will be available in the 3rd.

I personally would prefer us to get o line depth in the mid rounds. We can always get a safety in free agency and bring in some kids who went undrafted.

the hardest prt of this years draft is that we have so many picks that its just unusual.

yupchagee wrote:

Britskin wrote:Any extra picks would be really welcome this year ( any year in fact ) as it looks as though we`re going to try to do most things through the draft which is exactly what a lot of us have been calling for these past 3-4 years.
As we stand today Hackett is unsigned so needs at WR, S, D-line, O-line and CB are major areas of focus as we get closer to the draft. An additional 3rd rounder would be great for us this year.
Personally, I can`t see us starting with Doughty at Safety next season so i have to think that a first day pick at safety is a certainty , along with WR and D-line - if we get an additional first day pick then probably Guard would be the move. On Day 2 we can concentrate on CB and longer shots at WR , O-line and Zorn needs a QB - i would be looking for a good QB in Rnd 5 but Zorn may see things differently.

Doughty played well down the stretch, I can't understand why so many people are so down on hime. I think our 1st day picks will be WR, DL & OL.

I agree that Doughty wasn't ST/LL, but the man did pretty well. With a good off-season, it would be ludicrous to NOT give him a shot at starting. Do I say he gets it uncontested? No, but give him the shot he's earned after ST's death.

Has it occurred to anyone else that the Redskins have more draft picks than they have cap space to sign the picks? Does anyone else see a trade in the Redskins future?

GSPODS wrote:Has it occurred to anyone else that the Redskins have more draft picks than they have cap space to sign the picks? Does anyone else see a trade in the Redskins future?

That thought has crossed my mind, but I haven't really put any thought into it. I have the basic understanding, but I don't know enough about the intracacies to really debate that point, so I haven't adressed it.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

GSPODS wrote:Has it occurred to anyone else that the Redskins have more draft picks than they have cap space to sign the picks? Does anyone else see a trade in the Redskins future?

That thought has crossed my mind, but I haven't really put any thought into it. I have the basic understanding, but I don't know enough about the intracacies to really debate that point, so I haven't adressed it.

I also failed to add to my last post (I fully intended to) that the Redskins won't have enough open roster positions to sign all of their draft picks. Therefore, I am assuming they will be making some sort of trade. It would make no sense to draft players you have no roster space to sign.

GSPODS wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

GSPODS wrote:Has it occurred to anyone else that the Redskins have more draft picks than they have cap space to sign the picks? Does anyone else see a trade in the Redskins future?

That thought has crossed my mind, but I haven't really put any thought into it. I have the basic understanding, but I don't know enough about the intracacies to really debate that point, so I haven't adressed it.

I also failed to add to my last post (I fully intended to) that the Redskins won't have enough open roster positions to sign all of their draft picks. Therefore, I am assuming they will be making some sort of trade. It would make no sense to draft players you have no roster space to sign.

True. But I'm sure that there are some players that could easily be trimmed from the roster to make room for drafted players that the team is high on (i.e. Ryan Boschetti).

I woulnd't jump to the conclusion that the Redskins don't have enough cap space. If any team can use creative cap work to asign 7 guys to 7 mil of cap, it's the Redskins.

GSPODS wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

GSPODS wrote:Has it occurred to anyone else that the Redskins have more draft picks than they have cap space to sign the picks? Does anyone else see a trade in the Redskins future?

That thought has crossed my mind, but I haven't really put any thought into it. I have the basic understanding, but I don't know enough about the intracacies to really debate that point, so I haven't adressed it.

I also failed to add to my last post (I fully intended to) that the Redskins won't have enough open roster positions to sign all of their draft picks. Therefore, I am assuming they will be making some sort of trade. It would make no sense to draft players you have no roster space to sign.

Rookies are (relatively) cheap, I'm sure we have room to sign them. As for roster spots, the oddseason limit is over 80, so that's not a problem. The chances of all picks making the roster are slim. There is also the likelyhood that veterans will be cut (Remember Wynn & Salave'a last yr?)

JansenFan wrote:I woulnd't jump to the conclusion that the Redskins don't have enough cap space. If any team can use creative cap work to asign 7 guys to 7 mil of cap, it's the Redskins.

I was jumping to the conclusion that the Redskins are finished with being creative with the cap. That's why they are where they are with dead cap space. You could have let me enjoy the thought for an hour or two, but no.

In all seriousness, the Redskins have to sign two positions, regardless of where the players are obtained. Those would be a punter, Frost or otherwise, and a safety. So, we already know where part of that $7 Million cap number is allocated. While no one is better at creative finance than The Danny and Company, I'd still like to see the Skins trade away three of their draft choices, not the first rounder at #21 mind you, for another first or high second round draft pick this year. But that's just me. I see more areas to address than I see players to address them in the later rounds of this draft.

JMMO

GSPODS wrote:

JansenFan wrote:I woulnd't jump to the conclusion that the Redskins don't have enough cap space. If any team can use creative cap work to asign 7 guys to 7 mil of cap, it's the Redskins.

I was jumping to the conclusion that the Redskins are finished with being creative with the cap. That's why they are where they are with dead cap space. You could have let me enjoy the thought for an hour or two, but no.

But au contraire - we have a lot of time before we have to worry about who is going to be on this team and count towards anything - we will find a way to be able to get the best group on the field

In all seriousness, the Redskins have to sign two positions, regardless of where the players are obtained. Those would be a punter, Frost or otherwise, and a safety. So, we already know where part of that $7 Million cap number is allocated. While no one is better at creative finance than The Danny and Company, I'd still like to see the Skins trade away three of their draft choices, not the first rounder at #21 mind you, for another first or high second round draft pick this year. But that's just me. I see more areas to address than I see players to address them in the later rounds of this draft.

It would be next to impossible to find a team to give you a first round pick for the value of our #2, #3 (if we get one) and #4
PLUS - hopefully, we can increase our chances of finding "players" by using all those picks and IF the talent evaluators and scouts can just do their jobs we will end up with some players here for both need and depth.


Being able to "afford" players is not going to be a problem. Finding players who will fit our needs is the only concern.

I am just glad that we are not the ones jumping into the very shallow pool this year.

SkinsJock wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JansenFan wrote:I woulnd't jump to the conclusion that the Redskins don't have enough cap space. If any team can use creative cap work to asign 7 guys to 7 mil of cap, it's the Redskins.

I was jumping to the conclusion that the Redskins are finished with being creative with the cap. That's why they are where they are with dead cap space. You could have let me enjoy the thought for an hour or two, but no.

But au contraire - we have a lot of time before we have to worry about who is going to be on this team and count towards anything - we will find a way to be able to get the best group on the field

In all seriousness, the Redskins have to sign two positions, regardless of where the players are obtained. Those would be a punter, Frost or otherwise, and a safety. So, we already know where part of that $7 Million cap number is allocated. While no one is better at creative finance than The Danny and Company, I'd still like to see the Skins trade away three of their draft choices, not the first rounder at #21 mind you, for another first or high second round draft pick this year. But that's just me. I see more areas to address than I see players to address them in the later rounds of this draft.

It would be next to impossible to find a team to give you a first round pick for the value of our #2, #3 (if we get one) and #4
PLUS - hopefully, we can increase our chances of finding "players" by using all those picks and IF the talent evaluators and scouts can just do their jobs we will end up with some players here for both need and depth.


Being able to "afford" players is not going to be a problem. Finding players who will fit our needs is the only concern.

I am just glad that we are not the ones jumping into the very shallow pool this year.

Never say impossible. Ditka gave us his entire draft for Ricky Williams.
Miami and Atlanta need about 20 draft picks each. The Skins could get a high second round pick for our second and a third. They might get one for a third and fourth round pick. Or maybe for two third round picks. Some teams need quantity. The Redskins need quality. I hear Miami wants to trade away the #1 pick. That means they want more picks, for one team.

GSPODS wrote:

JansenFan wrote:I woulnd't jump to the conclusion that the Redskins don't have enough cap space. If any team can use creative cap work to asign 7 guys to 7 mil of cap, it's the Redskins.

I was jumping to the conclusion that the Redskins are finished with being creative with the cap. That's why they are where they are with dead cap space. You could have let me enjoy the thought for an hour or two, but no.

In all seriousness, the Redskins have to sign two positions, regardless of where the players are obtained. Those would be a punter, Frost or otherwise, and a safety. So, we already know where part of that $7 Million cap number is allocated. While no one is better at creative finance than The Danny and Company, I'd still like to see the Skins trade away three of their draft choices, not the first rounder at #21 mind you, for another first or high second round draft pick this year. But that's just me. I see more areas to address than I see players to address them in the later rounds of this draft.

JMMO

Our 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th rnd picks combimes add up to maybe the 30th overall. I wouldn't make that trade.

yupchagee wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JansenFan wrote:I woulnd't jump to the conclusion that the Redskins don't have enough cap space. If any team can use creative cap work to asign 7 guys to 7 mil of cap, it's the Redskins.

I was jumping to the conclusion that the Redskins are finished with being creative with the cap. That's why they are where they are with dead cap space. You could have let me enjoy the thought for an hour or two, but no.

In all seriousness, the Redskins have to sign two positions, regardless of where the players are obtained. Those would be a punter, Frost or otherwise, and a safety. So, we already know where part of that $7 Million cap number is allocated. While no one is better at creative finance than The Danny and Company, I'd still like to see the Skins trade away three of their draft choices, not the first rounder at #21 mind you, for another first or high second round draft pick this year. But that's just me. I see more areas to address than I see players to address them in the later rounds of this draft.

JMMO

Our 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th rnd picks combimes add up to maybe the 30th overall. I wouldn't make that trade.

I still don't why people are so hard on Reed. No, he tie up ST/LL's shoes on, but he still played well enough. Bring some talent in to give him a run, but I see as we need safety DEPTH, not immediate starter. There's a lot more pressing need than new SS starter. In our current situation, I prefer LL at FS anyway. I honestly see LL being the same calibre and ST and look where ST was headed before his tragic murder....

VetSkinsFan wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JansenFan wrote:I woulnd't jump to the conclusion that the Redskins don't have enough cap space. If any team can use creative cap work to asign 7 guys to 7 mil of cap, it's the Redskins.

I was jumping to the conclusion that the Redskins are finished with being creative with the cap. That's why they are where they are with dead cap space. You could have let me enjoy the thought for an hour or two, but no.

In all seriousness, the Redskins have to sign two positions, regardless of where the players are obtained. Those would be a punter, Frost or otherwise, and a safety. So, we already know where part of that $7 Million cap number is allocated. While no one is better at creative finance than The Danny and Company, I'd still like to see the Skins trade away three of their draft choices, not the first rounder at #21 mind you, for another first or high second round draft pick this year. But that's just me. I see more areas to address than I see players to address them in the later rounds of this draft.

JMMO

Our 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th rnd picks combimes add up to maybe the 30th overall. I wouldn't make that trade.

I still don't why people are so hard on Reed. No, he tie up ST/LL's shoes on, but he still played well enough. Bring some talent in to give him a run, but I see as we need safety DEPTH, not immediate starter. There's a lot more pressing need than new SS starter. In our current situation, I prefer LL at FS anyway. I honestly see LL being the same calibre and ST and look where ST was headed before his tragic murder....

My post said nothing regarding a starting safety. I'm perfectly fine with Doughty as a starter. However, the Skins only have three safeties on the roster. Having Vernon Fox as the only backup does not make me comfortable. And no team would carry only three safeties on opening day unless they had cornerbacks or linebackers who could also play safety.

GSPODS wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:

yupchagee wrote:

GSPODS wrote:

JansenFan wrote:I woulnd't jump to the conclusion that the Redskins don't have enough cap space. If any team can use creative cap work to asign 7 guys to 7 mil of cap, it's the Redskins.

I was jumping to the conclusion that the Redskins are finished with being creative with the cap. That's why they are where they are with dead cap space. You could have let me enjoy the thought for an hour or two, but no.

In all seriousness, the Redskins have to sign two positions, regardless of where the players are obtained. Those would be a punter, Frost or otherwise, and a safety. So, we already know where part of that $7 Million cap number is allocated. While no one is better at creative finance than The Danny and Company, I'd still like to see the Skins trade away three of their draft choices, not the first rounder at #21 mind you, for another first or high second round draft pick this year. But that's just me. I see more areas to address than I see players to address them in the later rounds of this draft.

JMMO

Our 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 6th & 7th rnd picks combimes add up to maybe the 30th overall. I wouldn't make that trade.

I still don't why people are so hard on Reed. No, he tie up ST/LL's shoes on, but he still played well enough. Bring some talent in to give him a run, but I see as we need safety DEPTH, not immediate starter. There's a lot more pressing need than new SS starter. In our current situation, I prefer LL at FS anyway. I honestly see LL being the same calibre and ST and look where ST was headed before his tragic murder....

My post said nothing regarding a starting safety. I'm perfectly fine with Doughty as a starter. However, the Skins only have three safeties on the roster. Having Vernon Fox as the only backup does not make me comfortable. And no team would carry only three safeties on opening day unless they had cornerbacks or linebackers who could also play safety.

I wasn't singling you out, GSPODS, just quoted b/c this was hte latest mention. Sorry if it seemed that way. On a side note, I hope we dont' resign Prioleau..... I'd rather bring AA back. (JUST KIDDING, MOSTLY)

VetSkinsFan wrote:I still don't why people are so hard on Reed. No, he tie up ST/LL's shoes on, but he still played well enough. Bring some talent in to give him a run, but I see as we need safety DEPTH, not immediate starter. There's a lot more pressing need than new SS starter. In our current situation, I prefer LL at FS anyway. I honestly see LL being the same calibre and ST and look where ST was headed before his tragic murder....

First, it's nothing personal against Reed. He made a few nice plays last year on running plays. But he was torched in the passing game and made no plays in that area. At the combine, Zorn was interviewed by Steve Mariucci for the NFL Network. Zorn was asked about areas of need for the Skins. Zorn immediately responded with comments about a major hole at the safety position. He talked about the safety position before he mentioned any other position, and we all know there are other needs. The Skins will most likely not waste a 1st or a 2nd round pick on a safety. But there are a handful of safeties that will be available in the mid rounds that could easily beat out Reed for a starting role. If they were to grab one in the mid rounds, I would guess that Reed would probably start the season as they coach up a rookie.

Of course, anything could happen and plans change, but when the coach specifically addresses that position, that's a pretty good sign they will do something. I'm sorry, I like Reed a lot, I just don't believe he has the talent or the skill set to be a starter in this league. Just an opinion.

SkinsFreak wrote:

VetSkinsFan wrote:I still don't why people are so hard on Reed. No, he tie up ST/LL's shoes on, but he still played well enough. Bring some talent in to give him a run, but I see as we need safety DEPTH, not immediate starter. There's a lot more pressing need than new SS starter. In our current situation, I prefer LL at FS anyway. I honestly see LL being the same calibre and ST and look where ST was headed before his tragic murder....

First, it's nothing personal against Reed. He made a few nice plays last year on running plays. But he was torched in the passing game and made no plays in that area. At the combine, Zorn was interviewed by Steve Mariucci for the NFL Network. Zorn was asked about areas of need for the Skins. Zorn immediately responded with comments about a major hole at the safety position. He talked about the safety position before he mentioned any other position, and we all know there are other needs. The Skins will most likely not waste a 1st or a 2nd round pick on a safety. But there are a handful of safeties that will be available in the mid rounds that could easily beat out Reed for a starting role. If they were to grab one in the mid rounds, I would guess that Reed would probably start the season as they coach up a rookie.

Of course, anything could happen and plans change, but when the coach specifically addresses that position, that's a pretty good sign they will do something. I'm sorry, I like Reed a lot, I just don't believe he has the talent or the skill set to be a starter in this league. Just an opinion.

And I'm all for this, as long as he gets his chance. You never know what a good off-season can do for a guy. They bring in someone and they legitimately outperform Reed, then I'm all for it. I think that Reed stepped in as a late round (6th I think) with no starting experience and held his own.

frankcal20 wrote:I personally would prefer us to get o line depth in the mid rounds. We can always get a safety in free agency and bring in some kids who went undrafted.

I strongly agree with this. Our o-line is the key problem on offense, and arguably on the entire team. Without a good o-line you can't run, can't protect the quarterback. With no running game you can't pass, and thus you have no offense. And without an offense, even a good defense is toast by the 4th quarter.

The one thing Beathard did consistenly was give us a great offensive line. He made lots of mistakes on players, but never failed to deliver great offensive lines.

Failing to punch in that last turnover in Seattle arguably cost us that playoff game. And that was the fault of our o-line

We need good o-line players, but first we need a competent front office to recognize the need for them, and then to get them.

old-timer wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I personally would prefer us to get o line depth in the mid rounds. We can always get a safety in free agency and bring in some kids who went undrafted.

I strongly agree with this. Our o-line is the key problem on offense, and arguably on the entire team. Without a good o-line you can't run, can't protect the quarterback. With no running game you can't pass, and thus you have no offense. And without an offense, even a good defense is toast by the 4th quarter.

The one thing Beathard did consistenly was give us a great offensive line. He made lots of mistakes on players, but never failed to deliver great offensive lines.

Failing to punch in that last turnover in Seattle arguably cost us that playoff game. And that was the fault of our o-line

We need good o-line players, but first we need a competent front office to recognize the need for them, and then to get them.

<sigh> you're missing it as most people do. You cannot look at last year and judge our starting offensive line since essentially 40% of it was on IR in week 2. If you want to slam O-Line depth, then you MIGHT have some merit, not much, but some. As I've previously mentioned, we were so thin at DEPTH that we had a guy in there playing with a pulled groin with no lateral movement. We had hideous luck with our O-Line and injuries. Our starters (see '06 season) were fine until they got hurt.

We also need to get YOUNGER for hte future, but the present STARTERS are sitting pretty for this year. The only question mark I have FOR THIS YEAR is Jansen's recovery. He's tough, but damn, he's gone thru some tough injuries as well.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

old-timer wrote:

frankcal20 wrote:I personally would prefer us to get o line depth in the mid rounds. We can always get a safety in free agency and bring in some kids who went undrafted.

I strongly agree with this. Our o-line is the key problem on offense, and arguably on the entire team. Without a good o-line you can't run, can't protect the quarterback. With no running game you can't pass, and thus you have no offense. And without an offense, even a good defense is toast by the 4th quarter.

The one thing Beathard did consistenly was give us a great offensive line. He made lots of mistakes on players, but never failed to deliver great offensive lines.

Failing to punch in that last turnover in Seattle arguably cost us that playoff game. And that was the fault of our o-line

We need good o-line players, but first we need a competent front office to recognize the need for them, and then to get them.

<sigh> you're missing it as most people do. You cannot look at last year and judge our starting offensive line since essentially 40% of it was on IR in week 2. If you want to slam O-Line depth, then you MIGHT have some merit, not much, but some. As I've previously mentioned, we were so thin at DEPTH that we had a guy in there playing with a pulled groin with no lateral movement. We had hideous luck with our O-Line and injuries. Our starters (see '06 season) were fine until they got hurt.

We also need to get YOUNGER for hte future, but the present STARTERS are sitting pretty for this year. The only question mark I have FOR THIS YEAR is Jansen's recovery. He's tough, but damn, he's gone thru some tough injuries as well.

Kendall is 35
Thomas is 32 & has ended 2 of the last 3 seasons on IR.
Rabach is 31
Our only backup in the interior of the O-line is Geisenger.
We are 1 injury from disaster. We need depth & we need to groom successors quickly.