The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

HEROHAMO wrote:Im telling u guys Gaines is way too small. If we add Gaines that would give us the smallest Duo of Defensive Ends.

Furthermore maybe that opens the door for us to take Jamal A. who is an athletic freak. Ive seen Gaines get blown back several times against the run.

How is gaines going to be effective if we are giving up 100 plus yards a game against the rush? Carter and Adams two small D ends = us getting run on all day.

Draft either Branch or Jamal Anderson. Patrick Kearney wont be the savior but is a definate upgrade.

This is just an example of Gaines Adams getting bulldozed by a college player. Can u imagine what an NFL Lineman would do to him the guy is a fine pass rusher. But we need to stop the bleeding against the run. Here is an example of Gaines Adams against the run. http://youtube.com/watch?v=b3WS5Uwc5XA

Yes, we have all seen that video but just so you know when one player is moving full speed and another isn't moving at all that is always going to happen. It has nothing to do with Adams strength when he is actually moving. He is like 265 and can put on a few lbs. He has strong arms and has many different ways to get to the qb. He is not going to get dominated by OT's whatsoever, and in college he was the one dominating them and I don't expect that to change much.

Houligan26 wrote:That truly bothers me. Every analyst in the league loved the way they look. Things like this piss me off about GW so much. It is like he is scared to take on someone raw. YOU MOLD THE GUYS INTO GREAT PLAYERS, you don't go after a patrick kerney. This articles disgusted me

Maybe people liked the way Gaines Adams ran - no doubt about that. But Branch was near awful - one of the most average combine performers of the week I thought - he looked overweight, sluggish and unprepared... not a good way to show up for the biggest job interview of your life.


Besides... anyone ever heard of posturing?

When you want to deal your pick... you BOLD-FACE LIE about what you're doing so that you keep all of your options open.

The scouting combine makes smart people dumb and dumb peolple even dumber. You have all of the film, your scouts actually watched them play live, so why do you care how many times a guy can bench 225 lbs or if his wonderlic score sucks. Why do OL even run the 40. If your pulling guard is still in front of your RB after 20 yards (let alone 40) YOU SERIOUSLY HAVE A SPEED PROBLEM AT TAIL BACK.

The only reason AA was drafted in the 1st round was because of his combine number! If people had said "I know how well he plays in college, I don't care how he performed at the combine, he just isn't a first day pick" then the Rams wouldn't have wasted a 1st round pick!

That is just one example. Every year great football players slip because they don't do well in Indy and every year a group of average players go to some "draft camp" and put up great numbers at the combine. They are picked in the first round when they should have been a second day pick. They the team wonders why they have a back-up player instead of a stud.

Well DUH!!

well, we probably are going to draft one of these DL:

Jamaal Anderson
Alan Branch
Gaines Adams

BECAUSE...

The Redskins never got involved in the bidding for other top talent, such as cornerback Nate Clements and defensive end Patrick Kerney, as the cost of those players ballooned

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/02/AR2007030201277.html

No doubt that the Combine taints results and is way over-hyped... you'll get no arguments from me there.

But does that change the fact that the Combine CAN actually affect the way people draft? To me it's irrelevent that it SHOULDN'T... the fact is that it DOES... and more and more.


One thing the Combine does do is level the playing field and give you a chance to see each player at the side of their peers.

Sometimes it says something about commitment when a guy shows up UNPREPARED. I agree that people shouldn't see their stock skyrocket too much from a Combine performance, but I can certainly understand some of the rationale for guys FALLING (slightly).

spudstr04 wrote:well, we probably are going to draft one of these DL:

Jamaal Anderson
Alan Branch
Gaines Adams

Nope... we'll pull off a trade with Detriot sending Springs to them for their #2 pick and we'll draft Joe Thomas, Then welll trade down and pick up NE's 2 #1s and their 3rd rounder and take the best available player with all 3 picks.

I crack myself up sometimes.

The redskins have no use for Joe Thomas. If for some reason they did take him i would stop watching football.

brad7686 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Im telling u guys Gaines is way too small. If we add Gaines that would give us the smallest Duo of Defensive Ends.

Furthermore maybe that opens the door for us to take Jamal A. who is an athletic freak. Ive seen Gaines get blown back several times against the run.

How is gaines going to be effective if we are giving up 100 plus yards a game against the rush? Carter and Adams two small D ends = us getting run on all day.

Draft either Branch or Jamal Anderson. Patrick Kearney wont be the savior but is a definate upgrade.

This is just an example of Gaines Adams getting bulldozed by a college player. Can u imagine what an NFL Lineman would do to him the guy is a fine pass rusher. But we need to stop the bleeding against the run. Here is an example of Gaines Adams against the run. http://youtube.com/watch?v=b3WS5Uwc5XA

Yes, we have all seen that video but just so you know when one player is moving full speed and another isn't moving at all that is always going to happen. It has nothing to do with Adams strength when he is actually moving. He is like 265 and can put on a few lbs. He has strong arms and has many different ways to get to the qb. He is not going to get dominated by OT's whatsoever, and in college he was the one dominating them and I don't expect that to change much.

Try and find me tape on Lawrence taylor getting run on like that. Try and find me tape of Julius Peppers getting run over like that. Try and find me tape of Dexter Manley getting run over like that. Find me tape of charles mann getting run over like that. Thats right u cant find any tape. Thats because thats what separates Studs from the mediocre. I offer proof of what is to come. Gaines may be good against the pass but once again we need help against the run. If it happened once it will happen again.

I'm not sure if I understand the point here. You find a clip of him getting run over and you're automatically against him?

In this day and age of youtube and online clips added daily, I don't really know what the big deal is...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NiwGp1TM5k

Check out that clip. Sean Taylor gets run over in college, and now he's still one of the best, if not the best, hitter in the NFL.


Calm down after seeing 1 clip... seriously... you don't offer any proof of what's to come, or else Taylor would have been awful too by your logic.

I guess you're too young to remember possibly the most famous Reggie White play in 1994.

Thanksgiving, Packers at Dallas.

Reggie was nursing an arm injury. Facing off against Larry Allen (all-pro even then, and a certain hall of famer), he ripped one arm under Allen and threw him out of his path.

Lions linebacker Wali Rainer recalls being wowed by White as a teen-ager living in Charlotte, N.C., when the Packers were visiting the Dallas Cowboys on Thanksgiving Day in 1994.

"It was amazing...he just picked up (Cowboys All-Pro guard) Larry Allen and lifted him off the ground with one big hand" before sacking the quarterback, marvels Rainer. "That was amazing; oh my goodness!"

No video, but that was 13 years, a bit before Youtube.

Even the best get smoked once in awhile.

Even the best get smoked?

I have never been smoked, and I'm the best of the best.

Why isn't anyone talking about Okoye? Now that guy has a motor. He doesn't take plays off by anyones standards. He has moved ahead of both Gaines Adams and Branch on Kipers board.

gibbs4president wrote:I'm not sure if I understand the point here. You find a clip of him getting run over and you're automatically against him?

In this day and age of youtube and online clips added daily, I don't really know what the big deal is...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NiwGp1TM5k

Check out that clip. Sean Taylor gets run over in college, and now he's still one of the best, if not the best, hitter in the NFL.


Calm down after seeing 1 clip... seriously... you don't offer any proof of what's to come, or else Taylor would have been awful too by your logic.

I get the point. I dont hate the guy. I also said he is a fine player.

My main points are this.

1. Redskins run defense and overall defense was herendous.
2. Another small D end how does that help us against the run?
3. If we are giving up big chunks against the run then we wont be in many passing situations in which Gaines Adams thrives in.
4. Andre Carter 250lbs DE / Gaines Adams 250-260lbs DE that is a very light two some and can be susceptible to the run.

Gaines Adams is a stud no doubt. I am just saying we would benefit more from drafting a bigger stronger slighty slower Defensive end yet still quick. Or a nice Defensive tackle will do as well.

Possible draft prospects I like who I believe would help our Defense.
1. Jamal Anderson DE
2. Adam Carriker DE
3. Amobi Okoye DT

These 3 players are all excellent against the run and can provide a pass rush as well. Maybe not as good as Gaines Adams as far as passing situations go but can provide some pressure on the Qb and stop the bleeding against the run. In my opinion I would draft any one of these three players.

In the case that we trade down for additional picks we should be able to get Adam Carriker later in the first round and pick up some more help in the 2nd round if we aquire a second rounder.

Remeber that D Tackle out of Washington. What was his name. Every Single Team Loved him. The Colts Drafted him. Turned out Steroid Manufactured. Maybe the Skins saw that in Branch. But I saw the Arkansas Razorbacks play several games last season. Anderson looked like a Beast to me. He is who I would take if I had to have a D Tackle in the 1st round. Remember the draft is a crap shoot anyway. But that is my 2 cents here.

No point in anyone getting upset about who any team reportedly likes or doesn't like. It happens every year. If a team really likes a player, the absolute last thing they want is for everyone to KNOW that they like him. It is all a big mind game between 32 teams from here on out.

Okoye is a fine pick if we trade down.

At #6, passing on a Jamaal Anderson is not smart at all.

^^^Agreed.

Smithian wrote:Okoye is a fine pick if we trade down.

At #6, passing on a Jamaal Anderson is not smart at all.

Okoye is a fine player I agree same as Jamal A. Okoye impressed everyone with his workout at the combine so he may be in the top 15 picks.

I really think draft predictions and the whole "what should we do" thing has to be halted to at least March 13. First off, Okoye?? GW may not even start McIntosh this year, when the hell is he going to let a 19 yr old crack the starting lineup. I just don't see it at all. Supposedly, we don't like Adams and Branch for whatever reason (unknown to me). So I point at March 13 because it is Jamaal Anderson's pro day. He did no activities at the combine so all eyes will be on him. If he is the guy that will blow us away than I think we stay put. If he goes before our pick that probably means either Quinn, Peterson, Adams is still there so we will have trade bait. Again, I don't think much can be determined till people see Jamaal Anderson workout.

Houligan26 wrote:I really think draft predictions and the whole "what should we do" thing has to be halted to at least March 13. First off, Okoye?? GW may not even start McIntosh this year, when the hell is he going to let a 19 yr old crack the starting lineup. I just don't see it at all. Supposedly, we don't like Adams and Branch for whatever reason (unknown to me). So I point at March 13 because it is Jamaal Anderson's pro day. He did no activities at the combine so all eyes will be on him. If he is the guy that will blow us away than I think we stay put. If he goes before our pick that probably means either Quinn, Peterson, Adams is still there so we will have trade bait. Again, I don't think much can be determined till people see Jamaal Anderson workout.

Okoye graduated high school at like 15. He should have an easier time picking up the schemes than anybody else would. He could start immediately.

HEROHAMO wrote:

gibbs4president wrote:I'm not sure if I understand the point here. You find a clip of him getting run over and you're automatically against him?

In this day and age of youtube and online clips added daily, I don't really know what the big deal is...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NiwGp1TM5k

Check out that clip. Sean Taylor gets run over in college, and now he's still one of the best, if not the best, hitter in the NFL.


Calm down after seeing 1 clip... seriously... you don't offer any proof of what's to come, or else Taylor would have been awful too by your logic.

I get the point. I dont hate the guy. I also said he is a fine player.

My main points are this.

1. Redskins run defense and overall defense was herendous.
2. Another small D end how does that help us against the run?
3. If we are giving up big chunks against the run then we wont be in many passing situations in which Gaines Adams thrives in.
4. Andre Carter 250lbs DE / Gaines Adams 250-260lbs DE that is a very light two some and can be susceptible to the run.

Gaines Adams is a stud no doubt. I am just saying we would benefit more from drafting a bigger stronger slighty slower Defensive end yet still quick. Or a nice Defensive tackle will do as well.

Possible draft prospects I like who I believe would help our Defense.
1. Jamal Anderson DE
2. Adam Carriker DE
3. Amobi Okoye DT

These 3 players are all excellent against the run and can provide a pass rush as well. Maybe not as good as Gaines Adams as far as passing situations go but can provide some pressure on the Qb and stop the bleeding against the run. In my opinion I would draft any one of these three players.

In the case that we trade down for additional picks we should be able to get Adam Carriker later in the first round and pick up some more help in the 2nd round if we aquire a second rounder.

The Redskins set a record for least amount of sacks and turnovers last year. Pass rush and pass defense are so much more of an issue than the run d right now its not even funny. Yes we were bad against the run, but its hard not to be when you are constantly on the field because you can't stop the qb from picking you apart on 3rd downs. It was always late in the game that the run was able to eat us alive because the d was tired from getting douched by qb's all day. Adam Carriker makes no sense he is a 3-4 defensive end he can not get around tackles in the NFL. I can deal with Okoye if we pick up a defensive end somehow in FA. But Adams and Anderson would be the ones that would help the most and Adams is going to be the better pure pass rusher more than likely. He was often double teamed in college and still got 12 sacks. He dominated an all conference tackle in the kentucky game, I don't know the guys name but it was ugly. He will be nasty.

[quote="brad7686"][quote="Houligan26"]I really think draft predictions and the whole "what should we do" thing has to be halted to at least March 13. First off, [b]Okoye?? GW may not even start McIntosh this year, when the hell is he going to let a 19 yr old crack the starting lineup.[/b] I just don't see it at all. Supposedly, we don't like Adams and Branch for whatever reason (unknown to me). So I point at March 13 because it is Jamaal Anderson's pro day. He did no activities at the combine so all eyes will be on him. If he is the guy that will blow us away than I think we stay put. If he goes before our pick that probably means either Quinn, Peterson, Adams is still there so we will have trade bait. Again, I don't think much can be determined till people see Jamaal Anderson workout.[/quote]

Okoye graduated high school at like 15. He should have an easier time picking up the schemes than anybody else would. He could start immediately.[/quote]

He is 19, his body still needs to fill out. He is a tad over 300, Griffin is already a small DT as is Golston. IMO, GW would give him little to no burn in 07. I just don't see it and I don't care if he is Einstein

This thread is about the Skins not liking Branch or Gaines -- I agree with others, don't believe what you hear from the Redskins this time of year. Gibbs is well known for blowing smoke...I'm not saying he's a liar but you get lots of signals that don't always pan out. Actually, a very smart move...we don't want to lay our hand down too early.

fredp45 wrote:This thread is about the Skins not liking Branch or Gaines -- I agree with others, don't believe what you hear from the Redskins this time of year. Gibbs is well known for blowing smoke...I'm not saying he's a liar but you get lots of signals that don't always pan out. Actually, a very smart move...we don't want to lay our hand down too early.

Hell, Belichick has made an art form of disinformation, doesn't seem to hurt the Pats much

fredp45 wrote:This thread is about the Skins not liking Branch or Gaines -- I agree with others, don't believe what you hear from the Redskins this time of year. Gibbs is well known for blowing smoke...I'm not saying he's a liar but you get lots of signals that don't always pan out. Actually, a very smart move...we don't want to lay our hand down too early.

When was the last personnel move the Redskins made that wasn't talked about for days or weeks befor it happened. Gibbs may never give you any info, but ther are more leaks coming from Redskins Park, than the Titanic had after it's close encounter with that iceberg.