The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Redskins Rule wrote:

bobbie brewskie wrote:Are you kidding?

Don't you remember the fumble he recovered last time we played? You know the one he returned to setup the game winning field goal?

How about the hit he put on Clayton during your 'Ring of Shame' game two years ago? You know when you guys had the first down and he just leveled Clayton! That really should have been ruled a fumble!!!!

Or my personal favorite.......those hits he put on TO during week 2 of this past season! TO had to take some pain killers after that game!!!!

Yeah.......you gotta be kidding!!!!

oh, i remember all those plays just fine. great the guy can hit. but you are knocking Roy Williams, who has done all of that and more. Roy is known around the league for his bone crushing hits. should i bring up the 2 picks for six in RWs rookie year vs you guys? should i bring up the time he knocked Portis from the LOS 3 yards back 2 years ago? how bout his INT on the 1 yard line this year vs. you guys? how bout Roy winning us the game vs. the eagles when he took a pick back to the house?

i can bring up a million individual events to vouch for any player, still doesnt mean that Taylor necessarily has done anything special to this point. Taylor is only brought up when potential is talked about, the guy doesnt produce, Roy does.

im sorry, but you have brought up individual plays to make a guy sound great, Taylor hasnt lived up to his hype or potential, im sorry. the guy is way over-rated and you skins fans think way to highly of him.

bobbie brewskie wrote:should i bring up the 2 picks for six in RWs rookie year vs you guys?

You're killin me!!!

You're actually bragging about Roy Williams intercepting Danny Wuerful!??!?!?!?!

Geez, you must be desperate!!!!

Redskins Rule wrote:

bobbie brewskie wrote:should i bring up the 2 picks for six in RWs rookie year vs you guys?

You're killin me!!!

You're actually bragging about Roy Williams intercepting Danny Wuerful!??!?!?!?!

Geez, you must be desperate!!!!

thats all you come back with? ok. id say taking 2 picks back to the house is quite a bit harder to do than pick up a fumble.

well, you are bragging about a hit that Sean Taylor laid on a 7th round pick . . . that same 7th round pick burnt him their rookie year. you are bringing up a fumble recovery that only got you guys into field goal range because the refs made a terrible call on a face mask that should have been "inadvertent."

im done here, you bring no logic to the table.

bobbie brewskie wrote:

Redskins Rule wrote:

bobbie brewskie wrote:should i bring up the 2 picks for six in RWs rookie year vs you guys?

You're killin me!!!

You're actually bragging about Roy Williams intercepting Danny Wuerful!??!?!?!?!

Geez, you must be desperate!!!!

thats all you come back with? ok. id say taking 2 picks back to the house is quite a bit harder to do than pick up a fumble.

well, you are bragging about a hit that Sean Taylor laid on a 7th round pick . . . that same 7th round pick burnt him their rookie year. you are bringing up a fumble recovery that only got you guys into field goal range because the refs made a terrible call on a face mask that should have been "inadvertent."

im done here, you bring no logic to the table.

Bobbie go away. Bobbie, TO will destroy your team next year without old Bill.

unter13 wrote:

bobbie brewskie wrote:

Redskins Rule wrote:

bobbie brewskie wrote:should i bring up the 2 picks for six in RWs rookie year vs you guys?

You're killin me!!!

You're actually bragging about Roy Williams intercepting Danny Wuerful!??!?!?!?!

Geez, you must be desperate!!!!

thats all you come back with? ok. id say taking 2 picks back to the house is quite a bit harder to do than pick up a fumble.

well, you are bragging about a hit that Sean Taylor laid on a 7th round pick . . . that same 7th round pick burnt him their rookie year. you are bringing up a fumble recovery that only got you guys into field goal range because the refs made a terrible call on a face mask that should have been "inadvertent."

im done here, you bring no logic to the table.

Bobbie go away. Bobbie, TO will destroy your team next year without old Bill.

arite fine unter, ill leave you alone. but only because i feel bad for you.

There is no chance in hell that Roy Williams only got beat for 3 TDs this year. I remember laughing hysterically more times than I can count as he flailed on long passes and was beat for TDs. I would be willing to bet it was at minimum 10. He also got beat for at least one TD in the wild card loss to Seattle, maybe two.

I also think it's hilarious that you call me a "homer" when you are a writer for a website called Dallas Cowboys Fans United.

Yeah, I'm sure you don't have any biases towards Roy... Some people are just unreal.

The only thing I agree with you on is that this was Sean Taylor's worst season and it was still way better than the impossibly overrated Roy Williams's season.

JPM36 wrote:There is no chance in hell that Roy Williams only got beat for 3 TDs this year. I remember laughing hysterically more times than I can count as he flailed on long passes and was beat for TDs. I would be willing to bet it was at minimum 10. He also got beat for at least one TD in the wild card loss to Seattle, maybe two.

my #s came from scouts.inc. Roy was beat once on the out by Stevens and then they split our cover 2 zone (schemes fault). so i blame him for that out that the hawks scored on. but im only talking about the regular season. and it was not more than 10, because Sean Taylor was tied for being beat the most times in the league with 11, haha. so whos over-rated now? ST is stupid and hasnt lived up to his potential.

I also think it's hilarious that you call me a "homer" when you are a writer for a website called Dallas Cowboys Fans United.

i call you a homer because your FS lead the league in times beaten for a TD according to scouts inc. and forced less turnovers (even with 2 of roys ints, 1 of them being a TD return not counting) than roy. ST did nothing but tackle more than roy, and when your FS is making a lot of tackles your D has problems.

Yeah, I'm sure you don't have any biases towards Roy... Some people are just unreal.

i have some bias toward him, of course. everybody has bias toward their team. you have bias toward ST. still doesnt change the fact that scouts inc. had roy at 3 times and ST at 11. doesnt change the fact that Roy had more turnovers than ST, doesnt change the fact that STs pro-bowl is bogus and you know it. doesnt change the fact that Roy has been named all-pro (determined by the players and coaches of the league - so that cant be a fraud) and ST is just now making it to the Pro-Bowl (a popularity contest in which he was a reserve and had a crappy season).



you have just come out with opinions all day long. you havent backed anything up with facts.

Taylor is all potential. Roy has produced.

What did Roy produce?? 2 more tackles than a guy the Redskins benched halfway thru the season? Another season without a playoff win? Getting beat for TDs in the Saints game that cost Dallas the division and maybe a bye??

You want production? Let me know when Roy wins a playoff game. Actually let me know when Roy scores a TD in a winning playoff game....

You gave one stat. I gave one stat. What's the difference? I think your stat is completely bogus. Show me the link. My stat is available to anyone who goes to NFL.com.

Any way you want to spin your BS, 111 tackles to 62 is a glaring number. That is a huge difference and you know it.

Do I think Sean should be in the Pro Bowl based on his production this year? You want me to be completely honest? No, I don't think he should be. But he damn sure had a better year than Roy did. So if Roy gets to go again for no apparent reason, then why shouldn't Sean go too?

You know this whole argument is completely pointless. We are so far off there's nothing the other person can do to convince him that he is wrong. The only thing we can really agree on is that neither player had a good year this year and they should probably both be watching the Pro Bowl from home on Sunday.

JPM36 wrote:What did Roy produce?? 2 more tackles than a guy the Redskins benched halfway thru the season? Another season without a playoff win? Getting beat for TDs in the Saints game that cost Dallas the division and maybe a bye??

tackles are a LB stat. yea, 62 tackles isnt amazing. but 111 is not something you want to brag about your safety having. that means that your team got run through and your FS was forced to make the play.

You want production? Let me know when Roy wins a playoff game. Actually let me know when Roy scores a TD in a winning playoff game....

let me know when the redskins go to the playoffs, let me know when Taylor does something to get them there. thanks for backing me up, atleast Roy got his team there, Taylor was watching that game from his house. only NFC East team not in the playoffs, only NFC East team with a losing record.

You gave one stat. I gave one stat. What's the difference? I think your stat is completely bogus. Show me the link. My stat is available to anyone who goes to NFL.com.

the Turnovers that the 2 had are also accessible at NFL.com. S arent supposed to make tackles, they are supposed to turn the ball over. go to DCFU and fine the post, or go to stats.inc.

Any way you want to spin your BS, 111 tackles to 62 is a glaring number. That is a huge difference and you know it.

great, your FS is making a lot of tackles, that means your run D is terrible. Roy should have had probably 10 more tackles, you are right, but like i said 111 aint nothing to be proud of from your FS. he prolly had more tackles than your LBs.

Do I think Sean should be in the Pro Bowl based on his production this year? You want me to be completely honest? No, I don't think he should be. But he damn sure had a better year than Roy did. So if Roy gets to go again for no apparent reason, then why shouldn't Sean go too?

well given that the NFC was terrible this year and there arent many SS in the NFC who really did much more than Roy, i dont know. not to mention the pro-bowl is a popularity contest (look at Deangelo Hall, Tony Romo, Flozell Adams). being named all-pro isnt exactly popularity, that means that the players and coaches in the league put you up there, so id say given that Roy has produced since he came into the league and has been named all-pro he is better than Taylor. Taylor might be more athletic an have more potential, but Roy is still better at this time. but im done argueing, this isnt going anywhere, like you said.

if you want to read a debate go check out the archives at DCFU, we have 100s of pages from last off-season about this. im too lazy to dig up all the stuff, but you will find tons of stats & various opinions and whatever else you want in the archives.

VASkin27 wrote:Wow, I guess this shows that despite how bad ST looked on TV this year, he must have been doing things right to get this kind of recognition. I thought this was his worst year as a pro, but it was apparently much better than it looked.

He had a lot of hard hits this year. Overall our defense played poorly which made him look bad. Anyhow check out his new highlight tape it has plenty of his hits and plays.

Is there a way to get this bobby brewskie guy out of here, I understand he isn't a skins fan but he also doesn't seem to know much about football. Taylor took us to the playoffs a year ago and he won a playoff game where he scored a TD. Are you really making a case against Taylor and his 111 tackles. Yes that shows weakness up front but it also shows the range he has. Your unhappy, one of the best of coaches of all time did mush with your squad and then bailed. We still have ours which means we still have faith. You have possibly Norv Turner. Its sad but talk about it with your cowgirl friends not us.

Bobby: I get that playing the role of the Dallas fan on a Redskins site is tough. To say Taylor doesn't belong in the Pro Bowl is one thing, the Redskins defense stunk, no question. I disagree, but that argument isn't unsupportable. To say he isn't in the top 10, that he's coasting on reputation, "tell me when he gets to the playoffs" (um, already happened) etcetera is pure Redskins-fan-baiting. I get why you reacted in that fashion, some of the comments about Roy Williams are ridiculous. Of course he's good and of course he deserves his spot. But you've focused solely on those comments and totally overlooked this post:

USAFSkinFan wrote:I understand Roy Williams is a Cowboy, but the dude is a hell of a football player, and his coverage skills can't be much worse than Taylor's if he had 5 INTs... I remember Marvin Lewis, when he was with the 'Skins, saying he'd play "D" with 10 players if he could have Roy Williams...

You really couldn't go wrong with any of those big names in the NFC like Roy Williams, Adrian Wilson, Brian Dawkins, and Sean Taylor... Wilson may be the best of the group, even though he doesn't get a lot of pub...

Of course, the human ball hawk, Ed Reed, in the AFC is no slouch either...

I get it, we like the Redskins, you like the Cowboys, fair enough. No matter what either player did, they played for secondaries that finished 23rd (Was) and 24th (Dallas) in the league. So nobody walks away from this looking significantly better.

I don't think that any stats or facts are going to change your opinion, brewskie, but I'll bite this once. . .

bobbie brewskie wrote:let me know when the redskins go to the playoffs,

2005, with a 10-6 record. (Sean Taylor was not a starter in the Pro Bowl, while Williams was).

let me know when Taylor does something to get them there.

Let's see. . .game saving tackle knocking the ball from Crayton, forcing a fumble inside the Redskins' own 5 (saving a TD), and a crucial fouth-down tackle. . .all in the week 2 Ring of Shame game; a fumble recovery returned for the touchdown that put the nail in the coffin against Phily in our 5-0 run; an interception and a forced fumble in a 4-point game against Arizona; a fumble recovery returned for a touchdown that was the winning score in the TB playoff game. Taylor was a stud for the Skins in 2005 -- not to mention a top-tier safety in the league -- and was snubbed by the Pro Bowl selection committee without any problem.

That same year Roy was smoked in both Skins vs Dallas games. Including two identical routes run by Moss in the Ring of Shame matchup. He had 4 tackles in our second game, when Redskins receivers and running backs were slashing your secondary all day. At the end of the season, he was sitting at home watching the playoffs on T.V. along with the rest of the Cowboys.

Now, using your logic, Williams wasn't a good choice for the Pro Bowl that year, because his most impressive stats in 2005 were in tackles (81) -- not turnovers.

I'm not one to say that Taylor should be there this year (I don't think he earned that spot), but to pretend that Williams earns his Pro Bowl spots without favoritism or hype is ignoring reality. 2005 is the perfect example.

Roy Williams doesn't even know how to run like a normal person.

At least Sean Taylor is coordinated.

Just like Samuals doesn't deserve to go.

Plus Taylor makes Terry Glenn cringe like a 6 year old girl whenever he gets within 6 feet of him.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Plus Taylor makes Terry Glenn cringe like a 6 year old girl whenever he gets within 6 feet of him.

And Terrell Owens...

bobbie brewskie wrote:

JPM36 wrote:There is no chance in hell that Roy Williams only got beat for 3 TDs this year. I remember laughing hysterically more times than I can count as he flailed on long passes and was beat for TDs. I would be willing to bet it was at minimum 10. He also got beat for at least one TD in the wild card loss to Seattle, maybe two.

my #s came from scouts.inc. Roy was beat once on the out by Stevens and then they split our cover 2 zone (schemes fault). so i blame him for that out that the hawks scored on. but im only talking about the regular season. and it was not more than 10, because Sean Taylor was tied for being beat the most times in the league with 11, haha. so whos over-rated now? ST is stupid and hasnt lived up to his potential.

I also think it's hilarious that you call me a "homer" when you are a writer for a website called Dallas Cowboys Fans United.

i call you a homer because your FS lead the league in times beaten for a TD according to scouts inc. and forced less turnovers (even with 2 of roys ints, 1 of them being a TD return not counting) than roy. ST did nothing but tackle more than roy, and when your FS is making a lot of tackles your D has problems.

Yeah, I'm sure you don't have any biases towards Roy... Some people are just unreal.

i have some bias toward him, of course. everybody has bias toward their team. you have bias toward ST. still doesnt change the fact that scouts inc. had roy at 3 times and ST at 11. doesnt change the fact that Roy had more turnovers than ST, doesnt change the fact that STs pro-bowl is bogus and you know it. doesnt change the fact that Roy has been named all-pro (determined by the players and coaches of the league - so that cant be a fraud) and ST is just now making it to the Pro-Bowl (a popularity contest in which he was a reserve and had a crappy season).



you have just come out with opinions all day long. you havent backed anything up with facts.

Taylor is all potential. Roy has produced.

Bottom line is . Taylor is far and away a better player than Roy Burnt deep Williams. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VA36wwL0sQk

Sean Taylor just LEVELED their punter!!!!!

For all of you that wanted to see Sean Level somebody! You got your wish!

Redskins Rule wrote:Sean Taylor just LEVELED their punter!!!!!

For all of you that wanted to see Sean Level somebody! You got your wish!

Makes me wish I was getting the game.


Maybe Youtube will help me out in a day or two. . . .

That was unreal. Scott Moorman got JACKKKKKKKKED UP!!!

hey we got devin hester so even if they make this kick we can still win! GO NFC!!

and that was a kickass hit by taylor!

okay damn...i diddnt know kicks took 5 seconds

Irn-Bru wrote:

Redskins Rule wrote:Sean Taylor just LEVELED their punter!!!!!

For all of you that wanted to see Sean Level somebody! You got your wish!

Makes me wish I was getting the game.


Maybe Youtube will help me out in a day or two. . . .

FFA, you know the game is on National TV right? (CBS)

But not only did ST level Brian Moorman, did anyone see him scoup up the Vince Young's fumble and take it for a Touchdown!?!?!

HOWEVER, the stupid Refs. blew the ball down as dead??? What I want to know is, how can they call it a dead ball, when it's rolling around on the bottom of a pile?

air_hog wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

Redskins Rule wrote:Sean Taylor just LEVELED their punter!!!!!

For all of you that wanted to see Sean Level somebody! You got your wish!

Makes me wish I was getting the game.


Maybe Youtube will help me out in a day or two. . . .

FFA, you know the game is on National TV right? (CBS)

Sadly, we have been without a TV at my house the past 2 weeks (we're in transition to getting a better one. . .)