The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I like that idea. But Calvin Johnson may go at number three. If hes available I say we take him.

brad7686 wrote:

UK Skins Fan wrote:Seems to me like the Johnson advocates here are making this into a choice between Johnson and a defensive tackle. Given that choice, I've already said that I'd go with the tackle, but that is not the choice.

Drafting Johnson would deny the possibility of drafting any defensive help in this draft. So, you might not want a tackle: you prefer an end or a middle linebacker, or a corner?

If there are players at those positions worthy of the #6 pick, then pick them. If not, find a way to trade to a position lower in the first round. Heck, I'd prefer them to pick an offensive lineman at #6 if there's a player that justifies it, rather than a wide receiver.

You do realize that the 2 and 3 receivers on this team are brandon lloyd and ARE right?

Yes I do. And I also know the kind of contracts that they are on, and realise that you can't trade either one of them without blowing yet more dead money on the cap, and you don't pay that kind of money to two players that you would propose should be our #3 and #4 receivers!

And all of that assumes that we've now decided they are both busts after one season! That argument has been had elsewhere on this board in the past. Randle El has done nothing but impress me, and he should be an outstanding Redskin for years to come. Lloyd has some work to do on the field (and off it, if the rumours are true) to convince all of us, but I'd like to see what both of them can do when Jason Campbell has a full offseason under his belt as the starter before I throw either of them under the bus.

To be honest, if Johnson is the second coming of Art Monk, then I really couldn't be disappointed if the Redskins picked him. But it just doesn't make financial or football sense to pick him right now, unless he is far and away the best player available when we pick, and we can't make a good trade down in the first round.

Its not a bad idea, but I think we have larger glaring holes to spend such a high pick on another wr.

I just hope our front office isn't even considering drafting a WR with the 6th overall pick.

WR and RB are probably the last 2 positions of need on our roster. Drafting Johnson would be almost as dumb as drafting Adrian Peterson IMO.

JPM36 wrote:I just hope our front office isn't even considering drafting a WR with the 6th overall pick.

WR and RB are probably the last 2 positions of need on our roster. Drafting Johnson would be almost as dumb as drafting Adrian Peterson IMO.

Call Denver (we do it every year anyway) and trade down.
This way we can kill two birds with one stone not only will we get more picks but we could get our own picks back
The #6 pick is worth 1600 points on the Value Chart and Denver's first rounder #21 is worth 800 points, their second rounder #53 = 370 points, get our third rounder back - that's another 450-500 points and they have a 4th rounder that use to belong to us worth about 100 points, If they throw in a 2nd or 3rd in 2008 we'd be back in business

1niksder wrote:..Call Denver (we do it every year anyway) and trade down.
This way we can kill two birds with one stone - not only will we get more picks but we could get our own picks back
The #6 pick is worth 1600 points on the Value Chart and Denver's first rounder #21 is worth 800 points, their second rounder #53 = 370 points, get our third rounder back - that's another 450-500 points and they have a 4th rounder that use to belong to us worth about 100 points, If they throw in a 2nd or 3rd in 2008 we'd be back in business

thanks 1 niksder - the voice of reason - initially I was responding to the (very unlikely, IMO) scenario where Johnson was available at #6 - if that unlikely event, is the case:
1 first, we should try and see what we can get for the pick
2 pick him and put a package together to trade him immediately
3 select a player in a position of need that has not been addressed by then through free agency

The fact that Johnson is not going to be avavilable really makes this discussion mute but even if he is he will not be on our roster in July.

The guy is likely to be very good but I doubt it is in a B&G uniform

1niksder wrote:

JPM36 wrote:I just hope our front office isn't even considering drafting a WR with the 6th overall pick.

WR and RB are probably the last 2 positions of need on our roster. Drafting Johnson would be almost as dumb as drafting Adrian Peterson IMO.

Call Denver (we do it every year anyway) and trade down.
This way we can kill two birds with one stone not only will we get more picks but we could get our own picks back
The #6 pick is worth 1600 points on the Value Chart and Denver's first rounder #21 is worth 800 points, their second rounder #53 = 370 points, get our third rounder back - that's another 450-500 points and they have a 4th rounder that use to belong to us worth about 100 points, If they throw in a 2nd or 3rd in 2008 we'd be back in business

If Denver doesn't want to trade up maybe we can give them some draft picks to do it. Then we can trade down for some of the draft picks we gave them to trade up.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:

JPM36 wrote:I just hope our front office isn't even considering drafting a WR with the 6th overall pick.

WR and RB are probably the last 2 positions of need on our roster. Drafting Johnson would be almost as dumb as drafting Adrian Peterson IMO.

Call Denver (we do it every year anyway) and trade down.
This way we can kill two birds with one stone not only will we get more picks but we could get our own picks back
The #6 pick is worth 1600 points on the Value Chart and Denver's first rounder #21 is worth 800 points, their second rounder #53 = 370 points, get our third rounder back - that's another 450-500 points and they have a 4th rounder that use to belong to us worth about 100 points, If they throw in a 2nd or 3rd in 2008 we'd be back in business

If Denver doesn't want to trade up maybe we can give them some draft picks to do it. Then we can trade down for some of the draft picks we gave them to trade up.

Denver needs a RB, DL help and a WR all will be available at #6, they screwed us in trades so much in the past they'll be waiting for our call.

If Johnson is still around at #6, here's a more likely trade deal:

We trade #6 to Atlanta for their 1st rounder (#10), their 3rd rounder this year, their 5th rounder this year, and their 2nd rounder next year. Atlanta wants him very badly - they need WR talent for Vick, besides Alge, and Johnson would be a hometown favorite.

THEN -- we trade our 1st rounder next year to get a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder this year and another pick later in the draft this year (5/6th round). Maybe NE. We'd still have 2 @2nd rounders next year...

With the 10th pick we get the best DL available; and With our late 1st or early 2nd we get the best OT available. Jansen seems to be hurt every year now and we need a backup OT badly...Wade will probably leave.

We'd need to get an OT next year so let's get it this year and get him coached up.

fredp45 wrote:If Johnson is still around at #6, here's a more likely trade deal:

We trade #6 to Atlanta for their 1st rounder (#10), their 3rd rounder this year, their 5th rounder this year, and their 2nd rounder next year. Atlanta wants him very badly - they need WR talent for Vick, besides Alge, and Johnson would be a hometown favorite.

THEN -- we trade our 1st rounder next year to get a late 1st rounder or early 2nd rounder this year and another pick later in the draft this year (5/6th round). Maybe NE. We'd still have 2 @2nd rounders next year...

With the 10th pick we get the best DL available; and With our late 1st or early 2nd we get the best OT available. Jansen seems to be hurt every year now and we need a backup OT badly...Wade will probably leave.

We'd need to get an OT next year so let's get it this year and get him coached up.

I like the first part but not the "THEN" part. I don't like the idea of continuing to trade our future first rounders. I prefer high and low picks to middle picks. The high have the talent and the low the depth. The middle are more mediocrity. Though as a Skins fan since the 70s I realize we're probably going to continue to trade "next year's" first rounders since we've done it as long as I can remember.

1niksder wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:

JPM36 wrote:I just hope our front office isn't even considering drafting a WR with the 6th overall pick.

WR and RB are probably the last 2 positions of need on our roster. Drafting Johnson would be almost as dumb as drafting Adrian Peterson IMO.

Call Denver (we do it every year anyway) and trade down.
This way we can kill two birds with one stone not only will we get more picks but we could get our own picks back
The #6 pick is worth 1600 points on the Value Chart and Denver's first rounder #21 is worth 800 points, their second rounder #53 = 370 points, get our third rounder back - that's another 450-500 points and they have a 4th rounder that use to belong to us worth about 100 points, If they throw in a 2nd or 3rd in 2008 we'd be back in business

If Denver doesn't want to trade up maybe we can give them some draft picks to do it. Then we can trade down for some of the draft picks we gave them to trade up.

Denver needs a RB, DL help and a WR all will be available at #6, they screwed us in trades so much in the past they'll be waiting for our call.

Yes, I don't think they're interested in making it up to us. I was good with the CP/Bailey trade except I just don't get how we threw in a second rounder. They would be drooling to see a northern virginia area code when the phone rings.

Hey, we got a fair trade for you, and we'll throw in more draft picks to get you to do it!!!!!

Ok, let's look at the situation for the first 5 teams:

Oakland- Going to get Russell, no brainer.
Detroit- I don't know, they're the wild card in this. They could get Quinn, Johnson, or Peterson, or a surprise pick.
Cleveland- Maybe Quinn, Peterson, or a defensive player, might be the team that could move down.
Tampa- They need to get young at all positions. Defense is at play, but I think they most likely will pick the best player available, meaning if Calvin is still available, gone.
Arizona - Joe Thomas, period.

Is it possible that the Skins can get Calvin Johnson? 20% chance, but still a shot. Now, everyone is saying Alan Branch. Well hold up, I think another possibility is Jamal Anderson. Another thing at play is free agency. This might sound wacky, but this is the perfect time for the Skins to go after free agents after all their mess ups. I heard Casserly said the Skins are looking at Nate Clements. Unless he knows something, this means bunch of restructured contracts. If the Skins get one CB, and a MLB, they can choose someone at DT in FA or draft Jamal Anderson or vice versa and pick up a DE and select Branch. This is where I hope we have a GM, because there are a lot of options, but I'm worried they are going to select other. If I have a guess, I think the pick is Jamal Anderson.

1niksder wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

1niksder wrote:

JPM36 wrote:I just hope our front office isn't even considering drafting a WR with the 6th overall pick.

WR and RB are probably the last 2 positions of need on our roster. Drafting Johnson would be almost as dumb as drafting Adrian Peterson IMO.

Call Denver (we do it every year anyway) and trade down.
This way we can kill two birds with one stone not only will we get more picks but we could get our own picks back
The #6 pick is worth 1600 points on the Value Chart and Denver's first rounder #21 is worth 800 points, their second rounder #53 = 370 points, get our third rounder back - that's another 450-500 points and they have a 4th rounder that use to belong to us worth about 100 points, If they throw in a 2nd or 3rd in 2008 we'd be back in business

If Denver doesn't want to trade up maybe we can give them some draft picks to do it. Then we can trade down for some of the draft picks we gave them to trade up.

Denver needs a RB, DL help and a WR all will be available at #6, they screwed us in trades so much in the past they'll be waiting for our call.

How about we just give denver all of our picks for a bag of Cheetos?

I think that is called "cheeting" - there is no way the league will let this franchise get away with that. nice try though

Besides, we don't need no stinking draft picks

Glenn Dorsey is returning to LSU.

I really hope we can get either Branch or Jamaal Anderson with the #6 pick. If they are both gone, I guess Gaines Adams would be the next best bet.

Pudgeman37 wrote: Another thing at play is free agency.

True that. We need to wait and see what happens in March. Then we'll have a better idea who they might draft in April.

For example, what happens if we trade Lloyd? Do we still have to deal with cap implications if a "trade" is made. If Lloyd goes, then the idea of taking Johnson might make sense.

if calvin johnson is the most outstanding athlete in the draft, a potential superstar or at least star, you don't pass on him just to fill a position of "need" with a substantially lesser athlete. you put the most talent possible on the field and let them make plays and change the game for you.

the saints already had a great RB in deuce mcallister when reggie bush fell to them at #2 last year. did they give up a game-changing player just to fill a position of need with an average player?

that has worked out very well for them, hasn't it?

i think the only question about drafting johnson is whether he is really as good as the hype. if he is, you don't hesitate to draft him.

he sure seems like it to me, though i'm obviously no expert.

die cowboys die wrote:if calvin johnson is the most outstanding athlete in the draft, a potential superstar or at least star, you don't pass on him just to fill a position of "need" with a substantially lesser athlete. you put the most talent possible on the field and let them make plays and change the game for you.

the saints already had a great RB in deuce mcallister when reggie bush fell to them at #2 last year. did they give up a game-changing player just to fill a position of need with an average player?

that has worked out very well for them, hasn't it?

i think the only question about drafting johnson is whether he is really as good as the hype. if he is, you don't hesitate to draft him.

he sure seems like it to me, though i'm obviously no expert.

I got your back with that one.

die cowboys die wrote:if calvin johnson is the most outstanding athlete in the draft, a potential superstar or at least star, you don't pass on him just to fill a position of "need" with a substantially lesser athlete. you put the most talent possible on the field and let them make plays and change the game for you.

the saints already had a great RB in deuce mcallister when reggie bush fell to them at #2 last year. did they give up a game-changing player just to fill a position of need with an average player?

that has worked out very well for them, hasn't it?

i think the only question about drafting johnson is whether he is really as good as the hype. if he is, you don't hesitate to draft him.

he sure seems like it to me, though i'm obviously no expert.

If he's the "outstanding athlete" in the draft, we won't get him at #6. And if he's that good we would be able to trade the pick for more value then we're expecting. If he's available at 6 and we can't get a decent trade, that doesn't make him a bad pick but doesn't make it a steal either.

If Calvin Johnson is available at #6 and we end up taking him because the other options that all include not taking him are not applicable, then we will take him - my opinion is that if we take him we will by then have addressed all the other items of need and are taking the best player available.

IMO, we are not taking Johnson (assuming he is the best player available) at #6 if we have another really good player available at a position of need.

All of this is based on so many different scenarios that are not likely to happen that it really is not that realistic.

SkinsJock you and KazooSkinsFan are wrong you are using common sense in a draft ???? thread in the middle of January.
Just wrong

You are so right - I kept saying to myself there are so many things that are going to happen beween now and the draft, and, that coupled with the "mystery" of how our guys handle the draft and draft picks - I keep asking, what am I crazy?

I am going to try and just watch for a while - I just hope that all of the "mistakes" in player evaluation (both college and pro) were used up this past year

I saw today on ESPN that Mel Kiper Jr. has Calvin Johnson ranked #1 overall on the big board. Having watched him play, I too think he is the best player in the draft.

Will he be there at #6? Who knows. I'll bet at this time last year, no one in New Orleans thought Reggie Bush would be available when they picked.

SkinsJock wrote:I am going to try and just watch for a while - I just hope that all of the "mistakes" in player evaluation (both college and pro) were used up this past year

Same here

die cowboys die wrote:if calvin johnson is the most outstanding athlete in the draft, a potential superstar or at least star, you don't pass on him just to fill a position of "need" with a substantially lesser athlete. you put the most talent possible on the field and let them make plays and change the game for you.

the saints already had a great RB in deuce mcallister when reggie bush fell to them at #2 last year. did they give up a game-changing player just to fill a position of need with an average player?

that has worked out very well for them, hasn't it?

i think the only question about drafting johnson is whether he is really as good as the hype. if he is, you don't hesitate to draft him.

he sure seems like it to me, though i'm obviously no expert.

I agree. Calvin Johnson may be the next Art Monk! I say we take him if hes available.