The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Skinna Mob wrote:Bly?????

I was thinking that too! Who is this Bly guy? Anyone know him?

No way, CP is one of the best backs in the league......I would trade with Denver for Champ Bailey straight-up though!!!!

Redskins Rule wrote:

Skinna Mob wrote:Bly?????

I was thinking that too! Who is this Bly guy? Anyone know him?

Position: CB
Height: 5-9
Weight: 188
Born: 05/22/1977
College: North Carolina
NFL Experience: 8


click photo for stats

Count me as intrigued. Portis is a true gamer, but we I don't see the point of having him and Betts when we have so many holes on defense. A third round pick, Dre Bly and a four spot upgrade isn't terrible return for an oft-injured tailback with 1385 carries under his belt.

Betts averaged 4.7 a carry in 2006, a number Portis has been unable to match since he was a Bronco. Betts isn't perfect (too many fumbles, not nearly the blocker Portis is), but the dropoff from Portis to Betts is much smaller than the dropoff from Dre Bly to Carlos Rogers/Kenny Wright. I'd pull the trigger.

I'm going to have to disagree with just about everything that you said. Oft-injured?? In his 4 NFL season prior to this year Portis played in 16,13,15,and 16 games. That is about as durable as an NFL running back is going to get. His injuries this year were total flukes and there is no reason to think that he wont be back 100% healthy for next season. Betts, on the other hand, has had plenty of injury problems during his 5 year career, missing a decent amount of time in 3 of his seasons thus far.

The dropoff from Portis to Betts is huge. Portis is a top 5 NFL back with game-breaking speed who holds onto the ball, is one of the best blocking rb's in the NFL, and finds the end zone on a regular basis. Betts, on the other hand, doesn't score, fumbles, and has a career long run of 27 yards. As for Dre Bly, he got benched by the Lions and their 25th ranked passing defense so he's not exactly that much of an upgrade.

Steve Spurrier III wrote:Count me as intrigued. Portis is a true gamer, but we I don't see the point of having him and Betts when we have so many holes on defense. A third round pick, Dre Bly and a four spot upgrade isn't terrible return for an oft-injured tailback with 1385 carries under his belt.

Betts averaged 4.7 a carry in 2006, a number Portis has been unable to match since he was a Bronco. Betts isn't perfect (too many fumbles, not nearly the blocker Portis is), but the dropoff from Portis to Betts is much smaller than the dropoff from Dre Bly to Carlos Rogers/Kenny Wright. I'd pull the trigger.

SkinzCanes wrote:My friend and I were actually talking about that after Portis' interview on 980 and I think that you may be right about them asking for trades or to be released if he got traded.

They can ask for whatever they want, but if they plan on getting paid in 2007, they'll suit up and honor the contract they signed. I don't want to dismiss the lockerroom impact of losing a team favorite like Portis, but seriously, they get payed to play football for the Washington Redskins, not to play football with their BFF Clinton.

Redskins Rule wrote:NO WAY we do this deal! We got someone that could very well break Emmitt Smith's record!

I hope you aren't referring to his all-time rushing record, because Portis isn't going to sniff it. He's already well behind Smith's pace, and his body is already breaking down. Portis is a great player, but let's not turn him into Jim Brown. Betts is more than capable of carrying the load on offense.

Dude! Portis faced a crud load of 8, 9 man fronts! Betts never faced those! And portis almost never fumbled the ball! Betts fumbled it against the Bucs, which led to a score. Against the Rams WHICH WHIPED AWAY THE GAME WINNING FIELD GOAL!!!!! Maybe even a touchdown! And again! Against the Giants which whiped away a field goal of ours (at the very least) and led to a field goal of theirs.

Plus, Betts is always hurt! Every single year, EXCEPT THIS PAST YEAR, he's been hurt.

I like Betts. He's a great back. I'm glad to have him as a Redskin! But he's not ready to be a number one here!

One more thing! Portis is a core guy! You don't trade those guys away!

I think there was one more thing I wanted to bring up..........Oh well

wiped not whiped

This is definetly an interesting trade and i am certainly thinking more and more about the idea of trading portis but i think we can get better than dre bly.

how about someone like dunta robinson from the texans.....

gay4pacman wrote:wiped not whiped

This is definetly an interesting trade and i am certainly thinking more and more about the idea of trading portis but i think we can get better than dre bly.

how about someone like dunta robinson from the texans.....

The Texans need a everydown back too

There is no way we trade Clinton. Gibbs must have 2 backs -- that's why he traded a 3rd for Duckett. He thought Clinton wouldn't make the whole year -- and he didn't.

This thread is a waste of our time!

I would cry tears of joy if this happened.

Clinton is a good player, but getting Bly and the second overall pick would be too good to pass up.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I would cry tears of joy if this happened.

Clinton is a good player, but getting Bly and the second overall pick would be too good to pass up.

Who's at 2 that won't be there at 6

fredp45 wrote:There is no way we trade Clinton. Gibbs must have 2 backs -- that's why he traded a 3rd for Duckett. He thought Clinton wouldn't make the whole year -- and he didn't.

This thread is a waste of our time!

There is no reason to go and ruin my theory

The longer this thread goes the more it proves that common sense is not always common among those that you come across

Who's at 2 that won't be there at 6 Question

Exactly what I was thinking. At #2 you have to think that either Quinn, Thomas (OT from Wisco), Calvin Johnson, and Adrien Pettersen are the 4 that are likely going to go at that spot. If we are trying to draft for defensive help in the first round it's a virtual lock that either Adams, Branch, or Dorsey (if he comes out will be available) will be available at #6. If the plan is to trade down then we wouldn't be gaining enough value to makeup for the difference between Portis and Bly, a corner that was benched on a bad defense.

Another negative about this trade.....Bly is going to be 30 at the start of next season, Portis will be 25 and turning 26 during the season. The last thing that this team needs to do is get older during the offseason. I remember reading that we were the oldest team in the NFL this season.

Dre Bly is an overrated corner. I don't like that trade at all.

ok. voice of reason here. for any of you who said you may consider it, go sit in the corner and bang your head against the wall... repeatedly... until it bleeds. then bang it against the wall some more. CP IS the redskins offense. exactly how many games did we win with betts carrying the load, without even taking into fact the fumbles?

that said. dre bly? for CP? bly had a couple of decent years that got him into the pro bowl, and that was because of the int's he snatched up. not to take anything away from the guy, he's better than probably all but one of our corners, that being a 'healthy' springs...BUT he's only ever hauled in six int's in a season, and if carlos rogers would have invested in elmer's glue stocks, he would have had at least 6 this year. "if". bly isn't the best "cover" corner in the league, and probably not the best corner available this offseason either.

that said, too, do any of you who said you might 'consider' understand the salary cap... AT ALL? to put this in simple terms.... for what it would cost to 'trade' (or cut) portis, we could have any (ok, i'll highlight that, ANY ) CB in free agency for LESS of a cap hit than what a trade with CP would cost!!?!?!?!? and for what? to move up 4 spots? what player is THAT much of a game breaker in the draft? is bly that important? what i'm saying is that we would take MORE of a cap hit to trade for bly than to go after a guy like clements in free agency. (not saying we will, but it would cost less against the cap than a trade)

i personally think we need a MLB more than any other position on the roster (another D-lineman in a very, very close second). but corner is an issue for sure. i just think we'll address it in free agency. and if we actually get another d-tackle/end, and some how, some way manage to pick up a real MLB, we may be able to make-do with the corners we have.

Redskins Rule wrote:

Steve Spurrier III wrote:Count me as intrigued. Portis is a true gamer, but we I don't see the point of having him and Betts when we have so many holes on defense. A third round pick, Dre Bly and a four spot upgrade isn't terrible return for an oft-injured tailback with 1385 carries under his belt.

Betts averaged 4.7 a carry in 2006, a number Portis has been unable to match since he was a Bronco. Betts isn't perfect (too many fumbles, not nearly the blocker Portis is), but the dropoff from Portis to Betts is much smaller than the dropoff from Dre Bly to Carlos Rogers/Kenny Wright. I'd pull the trigger.

SkinzCanes wrote:My friend and I were actually talking about that after Portis' interview on 980 and I think that you may be right about them asking for trades or to be released if he got traded.

They can ask for whatever they want, but if they plan on getting paid in 2007, they'll suit up and honor the contract they signed. I don't want to dismiss the lockerroom impact of losing a team favorite like Portis, but seriously, they get payed to play football for the Washington Redskins, not to play football with their BFF Clinton.

Redskins Rule wrote:NO WAY we do this deal! We got someone that could very well break Emmitt Smith's record!

I hope you aren't referring to his all-time rushing record, because Portis isn't going to sniff it. He's already well behind Smith's pace, and his body is already breaking down. Portis is a great player, but let's not turn him into Jim Brown. Betts is more than capable of carrying the load on offense.

Dude! Portis faced a crud load of 8, 9 man fronts! Betts never faced those! And portis almost never fumbled the ball! Betts fumbled it against the Bucs, which led to a score. Against the Rams WHICH WHIPED AWAY THE GAME WINNING FIELD GOAL!!!!! Maybe even a touchdown! And again! Against the Giants which whiped away a field goal of ours (at the very least) and led to a field goal of theirs.

Plus, Betts is always hurt! Every single year, EXCEPT THIS PAST YEAR, he's been hurt.

I like Betts. He's a great back. I'm glad to have him as a Redskin! But he's not ready to be a number one here!

One more thing! Portis is a core guy! You don't trade those guys away!

I think there was one more thing I wanted to bring up..........Oh well

I agree with everything that you said. This is the kind of talk that will happen when your season ends early. Give it a little time. Once people realize Portis is here to stay, all trade rumors will go away.

Cappster wrote:

Redskins Rule wrote:

Steve Spurrier III wrote:Count me as intrigued. Portis is a true gamer, but we I don't see the point of having him and Betts when we have so many holes on defense. A third round pick, Dre Bly and a four spot upgrade isn't terrible return for an oft-injured tailback with 1385 carries under his belt.

Betts averaged 4.7 a carry in 2006, a number Portis has been unable to match since he was a Bronco. Betts isn't perfect (too many fumbles, not nearly the blocker Portis is), but the dropoff from Portis to Betts is much smaller than the dropoff from Dre Bly to Carlos Rogers/Kenny Wright. I'd pull the trigger.

SkinzCanes wrote:My friend and I were actually talking about that after Portis' interview on 980 and I think that you may be right about them asking for trades or to be released if he got traded.

They can ask for whatever they want, but if they plan on getting paid in 2007, they'll suit up and honor the contract they signed. I don't want to dismiss the lockerroom impact of losing a team favorite like Portis, but seriously, they get payed to play football for the Washington Redskins, not to play football with their BFF Clinton.

Redskins Rule wrote:NO WAY we do this deal! We got someone that could very well break Emmitt Smith's record!

I hope you aren't referring to his all-time rushing record, because Portis isn't going to sniff it. He's already well behind Smith's pace, and his body is already breaking down. Portis is a great player, but let's not turn him into Jim Brown. Betts is more than capable of carrying the load on offense.

Dude! Portis faced a crud load of 8, 9 man fronts! Betts never faced those! And portis almost never fumbled the ball! Betts fumbled it against the Bucs, which led to a score. Against the Rams WHICH WHIPED AWAY THE GAME WINNING FIELD GOAL!!!!! Maybe even a touchdown! And again! Against the Giants which whiped away a field goal of ours (at the very least) and led to a field goal of theirs.

Plus, Betts is always hurt! Every single year, EXCEPT THIS PAST YEAR, he's been hurt.

I like Betts. He's a great back. I'm glad to have him as a Redskin! But he's not ready to be a number one here!

One more thing! Portis is a core guy! You don't trade those guys away!

I think there was one more thing I wanted to bring up..........Oh well

I agree with everything that you said. This is the kind of talk that will happen when your season ends early. Give it a little time. Once people realize Portis is here to stay, all trade rumors will go away.

CP is the HEART AND SOUL of this team. The way he runs, the way he blocks, and the way he conducts himself off the field. he's here as long as he wants to be here. Betts is good but some of you forget how good of a RB CP is. Don't get it twisted people.

1niksder wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:I would cry tears of joy if this happened.

Clinton is a good player, but getting Bly and the second overall pick would be too good to pass up.

Who's at 2 that won't be there at 6

Russell, Quinn, Johnson.....guys we don't need

hailskins666 wrote:ok. voice of reason here. for any of you who said you may consider it, go sit in the corner and bang your head against the wall... repeatedly... until it bleeds. then bang it against the wall some more. CP IS the redskins offense. exactly how many games did we win with betts carrying the load, without even taking into fact the fumbles?

that said. dre bly? for CP? bly had a couple of decent years that got him into the pro bowl, and that was because of the int's he snatched up. not to take anything away from the guy, he's better than probably all but one of our corners, that being a 'healthy' springs...BUT he's only ever hauled in six int's in a season, and if carlos rogers would have invested in elmer's glue stocks, he would have had at least 6 this year. "if". bly isn't the best "cover" corner in the league, and probably not the best corner available this offseason either.

that said, too, do any of you who said you might 'consider' understand the salary cap... AT ALL? to put this in simple terms.... for what it would cost to 'trade' (or cut) portis, we could have any (ok, i'll highlight that, ANY ) CB in free agency for LESS of a cap hit than what a trade with CP would cost!!?!?!?!? and for what? to move up 4 spots? what player is THAT much of a game breaker in the draft? is bly that important? what i'm saying is that we would take MORE of a cap hit to trade for bly than to go after a guy like clements in free agency. (not saying we will, but it would cost less against the cap than a trade)

i personally think we need a MLB more than any other position on the roster (another D-lineman in a very, very close second). but corner is an issue for sure. i just think we'll address it in free agency. and if we actually get another d-tackle/end, and some how, some way manage to pick up a real MLB, we may be able to make-do with the corners we have.

If there was any sense in the world, this post would have ended the thread.

What is the life expectancy of a CB in the NFL? I don't know, but Bly will have 9 yrs in the league next season and I'm sure that is way above the avg, so getting Bly, in my book, will be in the same category as Geff George, Deion Sanders, Bruce Smith, etc., just plain dumb. But getting Bly & 4 spots in the draft for Clinton, is in a new category by itself. Dumb, Dumber & Danny.

The trade rumours are bound to continue - something has changed. We currently have two 1,000 yards rushers - going to be really hard to keep them both happy next year unless we run the ball on every play or one is injured again. Factor in Betts` new contract and who knows? Thats why we`re all talking about it - things have changed and Portis does get injured. He hasn`t been right since the back end of the previous season and played hurt through the play-offs.

Britskin wrote:The trade rumours are bound to continue - something has changed. We currently have two 1,000 yards rushers - going to be really hard to keep them both happy next year unless we run the ball on every play or one is injured again. Factor in Betts` new contract and who knows? Thats why we`re all talking about it - things have changed and Portis does get injured. He hasn`t been right since the back end of the previous season and played hurt through the play-offs.

For someone that has recently been tag as oft-injuried (tag by those that are trying to justify a trade) he sure has a lot of 1000 yard season. It's true Gibbs as run him non-stop from the time he got here until he got hurt, but that's what most backs want (a lot of carries). What can you get by trading a Clinton Portis without being robbed? Yeah he was hurt but he'll be back at 100% and well rested. He can put up 1200 to 1500 yards in any given season? He a locker room guy (even his last year in Denver he kept his mouth shut until after the season).
What would the team look like after the trade? We'd get Bly at CB, have the second overall pick and no one to use it on (plus the Skins don't need to be paying top 5 money to a rookie we drafted too high), will need another top RB (Betts as never carried the load for a full season), still need D-line help(the second pick is too high for any DL or MLB in this draft). Without the trade we have a 1-2 punch at RB, can pickup Clements or Samules in FA (both better than Bly) and at #6 can draft Branch or Gaines depending on with D-line spot is filled in FA.

The team has no reason in the world to do anything that moves the Redskins up in this draft...

hailskins666 wrote:CP IS the redskins offense. exactly how many games did we win with betts carrying the load, without even taking into fact the fumbles?

How many games did we win with Portis? Three out of nine? And how exactly are we supposed to ignore turnovers when considering wins and losses?

hailskins666 wrote:BUT he's only ever hauled in six int's in a season, and if carlos rogers would have invested in elmer's glue stocks, he would have had at least 6 this year. "if". bly isn't the best "cover" corner in the league, and probably not the best corner available this offseason either.

IF Rogers could catch, IF Springs could stay healthy and IF Kenny Wright could play football, then I agree, we wouldn't need a player like Bly.

hailskins666 wrote:that said, too, do any of you who said you might 'consider' understand the salary cap... AT ALL?

I had not considered the cap hit. If it's not feasible, it's not feasible. I do like the return, but not at the expense of our cap. And I also agree that middle linebacker and defensive line are also important needs.

SkinzCanes wrote:I'm going to have to disagree with just about everything that you said. Oft-injured?? In his 4 NFL season prior to this year Portis played in 16,13,15,and 16 games.

How does that make him more likely to be healthy in the future? In 2005 he was very banged up at the end of the season, and he couldn't stay on the field in 2006. I'm not trying to knock Portis, but only two 16 game seasons out of five isn't that impressive. Although I'm more than willing to concede Betts has had injury problems of his own, to say the least.

SkinzCanes wrote:The dropoff from Portis to Betts is huge. Portis is a top 5 NFL back with game-breaking speed who holds onto the ball, is one of the best blocking rb's in the NFL, and finds the end zone on a regular basis. Betts, on the other hand, doesn't score, fumbles, and has a career long run of 27 yards.

PLAYER A:
127 carries
523 yards
7 touchdowns
4.1 ypc
3 20+ runs
29 first downs

PLAYER B:
245 carries
1154 yards
4 touchdowns
4.7 ypc
6 20+ runs
59 first downs

Player A, of course, is Clinton Portis, and Player B is Ladell Betts. Now, I am NOT saying Betts is the better player, the better bet to be productive in the future, nor the most likely to stay healthy. What I AM saying is that Betts can be, and has been, a good running back in the National Football League. And as much as I would like to have Portis and Betts, there are too many holes on the defensive side of the ball to keep them both. The Redskins would be well-served to move Portis for a real upgrade on defense. If Dre Bly isn't that "real upgrade", that's fine. If it doesn't fit in with the cap, that's fine. But just keeping Portis because "he is the offense", or because "Santana won't like it" is foolish.

1niksder wrote:What can you get by trading a Clinton Portis without being robbed?

How about Champ Bailey and a second round pick?

Steve Spurrier III wrote:How about Champ Bailey and a second round pick?

Bly is no Champ and swapping 1st rounders don't make up the difference.

Gibbs brought CP in with him, along with Brunell. Remember how long it took for him to bench Mark. Trading Portis is probably not on Gibbs mind.