The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I still say go get Will Allen-Pass (UFA Eagles) or Nick Harper (UFA Colts) at CB and E.J. Henderson (UFA Vikings and Maryland product); move Marcus to the MLB, Henderson one OLB and Rocky the other OLB; move Springs to FS, Taylor to SS; draft a DL (either DE or DT) in 07 and a MLB in the 08 Draft. Cut Holdman and use Marshall in packages. Make Rogers battle Wright, Jimoh, and Eubanks for his starting Corner spot in hopes of getting more out of him.

I think that Marcus could make the switch. Besides, if GW is as "genius" as he claims or appears to be, then he could put together a scheme that would maximize Marcus' quickest and hide any of his faults. Also, according to his bio, Marcus is 6-3 250 which is comparable to Ray-Ray, Urlacher, more than Zach Thomas and other starting MLBs in the league. I think that he is smart enough and athletic enough to make the transition.

Also, look at this from a financial stand-point: guys like Nate Clements, Ashanti Samuels, Lance Briggs, Adalius Thomas and any of the other top FAs at CB and MLB will command mucho deniro because of the year that they had. E.J. Henderson had a solid year (ranked 27th in tackles in the NFL; lead the lowly Vikes in tackles) but not enough to garner the money the other guys will want. Will James was hurt most of the year after he was picked up by the Eagles but was okay when he played from what I saw so he will probably be cheap too. Nick Harper may want money but not Samuel, Bailey, Clements type money so he may be affordable.

These are the moves that I think we should make with minimal spending and developing what we got from within.

OR: we could coach up what we got in the Secondary moving Springs to FS and Taylor to SS and coaching up our young CBs; then go after that big name FA MLB. Take the one draft pick we do have and draft a position on defense that we really need but are set for now and that kid can be ready to go by the start of the '08 season.

CcHhDd wrote:how come every year people on this board always suggest we get a DE in the draft?

Because every year the Redskins come up short in sack totals and everyone in the division runs well on us (I put that mostly on WLB).

CcHhDd wrote:To me the dline played ok this year. Carter came on at the end of the year. Griffin was hurt most of the time so next year he should bounce back. Daniels is getting older but does anyone on this board remember Demetrius Evans. You know, the situational pass rusher we used last year but for some reason kept on the bench for most of 06 (not sure why). And I believe golston is ok... but i don't see all the fuss about him. I think we're getting caught up in the fact that we have a seventh round draft pick starting for us (not always a good thing).

I don't know what happen to Evans maybe with 3 DL being added last off season just pushed him down the depth chart. Daniels will be coming off surgery but should be better next year although I don't see him playing as well as he did in 2005 now that he's on the other side. The problem throughout the defense this year was lack of depth. Players got hurt and there was no one to step up.

CcHhDd wrote:If anything we need linebackers and secondary. My first choice going to a cornerback. Springs is getting older and has always had a history of injury problems. Rogers is ok but its doubtfull he'll ever be a number one corner. I wouldn't be against even bringing back smoot.

I'd make MLB the #1 priority, then get another corner. Both would need to be able to start day one so we are talking free agency.

CcHhDd wrote:My idea this off season is to maybe .. hmm.. not do much of anything and let the players gell. Maybe trade down instead of up? Possibly pick up a corner and a middle linebacker? Maybe even a safety. Then just let the skins work things out.

It would be nice to take a backseat for a change but Williams will not play a rookie at MLB so we must do something in free agency, I just hope we don't go overboard. I'd trade down and get more picks, then trading out of the first round for a 2nd, 3rd this year and more picks in 2008.

CcHhDd wrote:Guys we have talent. The problem isn't the players, its the locker room attitude. Change that and we'll start winning

The we have do have talent but the problem appears to be a mystery

CcHhDd wrote:how come every year people on this board always suggest we get a DE in the draft?

To me the dline played ok this year. Carter came on at the end of the year. Griffin was hurt most of the time so next year he should bounce back. Daniels is getting older but does anyone on this board remember Demetrius Evans. You know, the situational pass rusher we used last year but for some reason kept on the bench for most of 06 (not sure why). And I believe golston is ok... but i don't see all the fuss about him. I think we're getting caught up in the fact that we have a seventh round draft pick starting for us (not always a good thing).

If anything we need linebackers and secondary. My first choice going to a cornerback. Springs is getting older and has always had a history of injury problems. Rogers is ok but its doubtfull he'll ever be a number one corner. I wouldn't be against even bringing back smoot.

My idea this off season is to maybe .. hmm.. not do much of anything and let the players gell. Maybe trade down instead of up? Possibly pick up a corner and a middle linebacker? Maybe even a safety. Then just let the skins work things out.

Guys we have talent. The problem isn't the players, its the locker room attitude. Change that and we'll start winning

The Dline had something like 6 sacks all year! THat is by far the least in the league. If thats your idea of ok I hate to see what bad looks like.

The Dline had something like 6 sacks all year! THat is by far the least in the league. If thats your idea of ok I hate to see what bad looks like.

I agree. The defensive line wasn't effective at all this season, both against the rush and rushing the passer. Daniels is coming off of injuries the last few seasons and is at the point where he should probably be a backup. Carter, even though he played better towards the end of the season still struggled against the run and while he got some sacks he did not get consistent pressure on the qb. Golston was a nice surprise but does he have the talent to be a full time starting DT? Griffin is very good but injuries have taken their toll on him and our defense struggles tremendously when he isn't in the lineup. Can he be counted on to stay healthy for a full season? He said in an interview that the shoulder he had surgery on last offseason still bothers him. So there are plenty of question marks on this unit and imo we need some upgrades there.

ALAN BRANCH just made himself eligible for the draft

This guy doesn't get past us and we could probably trade down to #10 and get him.

Depth at D line. Find some hidden gems in the first three rounds.

Gibbs4Life wrote:ALAN BRANCH just made himself eligible for the draft

This guy doesn't get past us and we could probably trade down to #10 and get him.

I like that idea very much! If we get him at 10 and get a second rounder as well,that would be tremendous.

HEROHAMO wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:ALAN BRANCH just made himself eligible for the draft

This guy doesn't get past us and we could probably trade down to #10 and get him.

I like that idea very much! If we get him at 10 and get a second rounder as well,that would be tremendous.

Sure, lots of teams are going to give up a first and second to move up ~5 spots or so. The only front office that stupid is, well, ours. Since we usually get hosed in trades, I much prefer we just use the pick. Any trade is likely to be a bad one.

Sure, lots of teams are going to give up a first and second to move up ~5 spots or so. The only front office that stupid is, well, ours.

<Cough> New Orleans <Cough> Mike Ditka <Cough> 1999 draft <Cough> Rickty Williams <Cough> Redskins traded down, still got who they wanted (Champ Bailey), AND NO's entire 1999 draft plus their number one and three for the 2000 draft <Cough>

Countertrey wrote:

Sure, lots of teams are going to give up a first and second to move up ~5 spots or so. The only front office that stupid is, well, ours.

<Cough> New Orleans <Cough> Mike Ditka <Cough> 1999 draft <Cough> Rickty Williams <Cough> Redskins traded down, still got who they wanted (Champ Bailey), AND NO's entire 1999 draft plus their number one and three for the 2000 draft <Cough>

Thank u. Anything is possible. At least make the offer to a couple teams I am sure they will at least think about it.

You're welcome...

And, of course, there was also the Hershel Walker trade, when Dallas stuck it to Minnesota.

DO NOT ADD OTHER TEAMS' GARBAGE!!

by the way Jared Allen was just in jail for a DUI

we need Freeney, Clements and Adalius Thomas (plays all 11 positions on D)

Danny boy knows how to work the contracts so dont worry about the money

and draft Alan Branch after trading down to like 10-15th

we should be set after that, oh and maybe draft David Harris if he's there in the 2nd, can never have too many Michigan players!

Mursilis wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:ALAN BRANCH just made himself eligible for the draft

This guy doesn't get past us and we could probably trade down to #10 and get him.

I like that idea very much! If we get him at 10 and get a second rounder as well,that would be tremendous.

Sure, lots of teams are going to give up a first and second to move up ~5 spots or so. The only front office that stupid is, well, ours. Since we usually get hosed in trades, I much prefer we just use the pick. Any trade is likely to be a bad one.

They wouldn't be giving up a first and a second to move up five spots! They would be swapping atheir first for ours and giving us a 2nd to compensate us to move up. On the chart that I saw, the point value to move from #6 to #10 is 300 points or ruffly the value of 61st pick in the draft (a second rounder). The odds of someone having the 10 and 61st pick are that high. But if the team drafting 13th wanted to move up to #6 that would be 450 points or about the value of that teams second round pick #45 overall.
So getting a 2 to move down less than 8 spots isn't unheard of.

So getting a 2 to move down less than 8 spots isn't unheard of.

Good call. It's also not unheard of for teams to pay even more.

Draft Branch and sign 4,5,6 solid players instead of 1-2 "great" ones.

I would be fine with them trading down or taking one of the following...

Glenn Dorsey
Gaines Adams
Alan Branch
Calvin Johnson if for some reason he slips, although if he is that would certainly make trading down more appetizing. someone would surrender a second rounder to get him.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:ALAN BRANCH just made himself eligible for the draft

This guy doesn't get past us and we could probably trade down to #10 and get him.

I like that idea very much! If we get him at 10 and get a second rounder as well,that would be tremendous.

Sure, lots of teams are going to give up a first and second to move up ~5 spots or so. The only front office that stupid is, well, ours. Since we usually get hosed in trades, I much prefer we just use the pick. Any trade is likely to be a bad one.

They wouldn't be giving up a first and a second to move up five spots! They would be swapping atheir first for ours and giving us a 2nd to compensate us to move up.

So in other words they'd be giving up a first and second to take our first? That's what I said.

On the chart that I saw, the point value to move from #6 to #10 is 300 points or ruffly the value of 61st pick in the draft (a second rounder). The odds of someone having the 10 and 61st pick are that high. But if the team drafting 13th wanted to move up to #6 that would be 450 points or about the value of that teams second round pick #45 overall.
So getting a 2 to move down less than 8 spots isn't unheard of.

Sure, it's not unheard of, but we'll see if it happens. I'm not holding my breath.

Mursilis wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:ALAN BRANCH just made himself eligible for the draft

This guy doesn't get past us and we could probably trade down to #10 and get him.

I like that idea very much! If we get him at 10 and get a second rounder as well,that would be tremendous.

Sure, lots of teams are going to give up a first and second to move up ~5 spots or so. The only front office that stupid is, well, ours. Since we usually get hosed in trades, I much prefer we just use the pick. Any trade is likely to be a bad one.

They wouldn't be giving up a first and a second to move up five spots! They would be swapping atheir first for ours and giving us a 2nd to compensate us to move up.

So in other words they'd be giving up a first and second to take our first? That's what I said.

On the chart that I saw, the point value to move from #6 to #10 is 300 points or ruffly the value of 61st pick in the draft (a second rounder). The odds of someone having the 10 and 61st pick are that high. But if the team drafting 13th wanted to move up to #6 that would be 450 points or about the value of that teams second round pick #45 overall.
So getting a 2 to move down less than 8 spots isn't unheard of.

Sure, it's not unheard of, but we'll see if it happens. I'm not holding my breath.

Hey I thought you were using the Steve Czaban school of draft math. To this day he still thinks Campbell cost the Skins two first round picks, a third and a forth.

Someone giving up a second round pick to move up to #6 from #10 wouuld probably not happen, since the 2nd rounder they would have would be too high a value. But a team at #13-#15 would be about right. Everything depends on how much a team wants a guy still on the board!

I still say Patrick Willis in the first and a good, developmental DE in the second. Patrick Willis put up crazy tackle numbers. He is an amazing blitzer, but the inability in coverage of others made him to valuable to blitz. He would be better at EVERYTHING than Lemar Marshall in his first year outside of lining everyone up which would come in time.

Also, he lined up behind a D-Line which, considering the level, was worst than the Redskins.

Though, if we draft Gaines Adams, I would not be upset.

The combine numbers will help separate the top end of the draft.

Mursilis wrote:

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Mursilis wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:

Gibbs4Life wrote:ALAN BRANCH just made himself eligible for the draft

This guy doesn't get past us and we could probably trade down to #10 and get him.

I like that idea very much! If we get him at 10 and get a second rounder as well,that would be tremendous.

Sure, lots of teams are going to give up a first and second to move up ~5 spots or so. The only front office that stupid is, well, ours. Since we usually get hosed in trades, I much prefer we just use the pick. Any trade is likely to be a bad one.

They wouldn't be giving up a first and a second to move up five spots! They would be swapping atheir first for ours and giving us a 2nd to compensate us to move up.

So in other words they'd be giving up a first and second to take our first? That's what I said.

On the chart that I saw, the point value to move from #6 to #10 is 300 points or ruffly the value of 61st pick in the draft (a second rounder). The odds of someone having the 10 and 61st pick are that high. But if the team drafting 13th wanted to move up to #6 that would be 450 points or about the value of that teams second round pick #45 overall.
So getting a 2 to move down less than 8 spots isn't unheard of.

Sure, it's not unheard of, but we'll see if it happens. I'm not holding my breath.

Anything is possible. Its at least worth a shot to make an outragous offer. But to just dismiss the possibilities and not even offer teams our pick for possible gains is idiotic.

No FA pickups...at least no BIG ones anyway.

As for the draft...

TRADE DOWN !!!

thaiphoon wrote:No FA pickups...at least no BIG ones anyway.

As for the draft...

TRADE DOWN !!!

FA pickups are going to happen, it is Snyder and Gibbs, while I love Gibbs as coach, he is like a kid in a candy shop with shopping for players and the accountants will manipulate the cap to do it. The part I hope we don't do is extend old guys contracts, we need to get younger.

On the trading down, certainly we should be open but when you seek it you automatically get less value in return. Personally I think we should tell everyone we're here if they want it but do nothing to trade it or we won't come out well.

Roybus -- quit on the EJ thing -- he was signed by Minn a few weeks back for a bunch of cash -- he ain't leaving there.

In my dreams....

The only team ahead of us that could/should pick Calvin Johnson is Tampa Bay. The other 4 teams are either loaded at WR or need other stuff so badly, WR won't be on their list (Oakland, Detroit, Cardinals & Cleveland). If by chance Johnson slips to us, we could easily trade him to Atlanta -- who want and need him so badly they can taste it. He's a local guy to Atlanta and they need WRs really badly. They sit at 10. We might be able to get their 1st rounder and 3rd rounder this year, and their 2nd round pick next year.

THEN -- We could trade next year's 1st rounder (we'd have 2 @ 2nd rounders) for a late 1st rounder this year -- I'd guess that NE would do that with one of their 2 @ 1st rounders. That would allow us to get two solid defensive players this year...a dl at 10 and a cb late in the first round. OR -- we could draft an OT with the later 1st rounder that could be the replacement for Jansen in a few years and depth this year. I'm beginning to worry about Jansen -- he's getting hurt a lot lately...age does that to you.

Kazoo- I agree that they are going to pick up FA's and I agree on HOW to trade down. I just want them to trade down just enough to pick up a few more picks and still get a decent DE or DT and a CB with the pick they pick up.

Fredp45 said:

The only team ahead of us that could/should pick Calvin Johnson is Tampa Bay. The other 4 teams are either loaded at WR or need other stuff so badly, WR won't be on their list (Oakland, Detroit, Cardinals & Cleveland). If by chance Johnson slips to us, we could easily trade him to Atlanta -- who want and need him so badly they can taste it. He's a local guy to Atlanta and they need WRs really badly. They sit at 10. We might be able to get their 1st rounder and 3rd rounder this year, and their 2nd round pick next year.

This is basically what I was thinking when I said trade down.

THEN -- We could trade next year's 1st rounder (we'd have 2 @ 2nd rounders) for a late 1st rounder this year -- I'd guess that NE would do that with one of their 2 @ 1st rounders. That would allow us to get two solid defensive players this year...a dl at 10 and a cb late in the first round. OR -- we could draft an OT with the later 1st rounder that could be the replacement for Jansen in a few years and depth this year. I'm beginning to worry about Jansen -- he's getting hurt a lot lately...age does that to you.

Not sure I'd be willing to trade our 1rst rounder away. I'm tired of getting rid of our next year's 1rst rounder before we even have a chance to see what we could get for it. I do agree with replacing OT with later picks. But in the 1rst round we need DL help badly !!!

Any updates on Jrs that have declared?