What$ Champ Worth?

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 3:27 pm

"Champ has to agree??

Little help here, it that true??"

of course. It's a contract that HE has has to sign as the Free Agent that HE is. The only other way around that is by franchising him. But what good is that, if you already know his heart isn't in it? That's why in the free press article, Millen knows this and isn't dumb enough to give up too much.

Like I said, it's a matter of Snyder taking what he can get, or LOSING CHAMP FOR NOTHING.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:19 pm

"Like I said, it's a matter of Snyder taking what he can get, or LOSING CHAMP FOR NOTHING."

Why do you keep on saying that? Under no circumstance will we lose him for nothing. We will franchise him if we don't get a satisfactory offer.

I don't believe that Champ's heart isn't into it. Last year, he had no pass rush help, the team was horrible, and he was still voted to the Pro Bowl. Right now, he is looking into landing a huge contract and possibly playing with his brother. That doesn't mean if he is a Redskin he won't play hard next year. I think you are being very unrealistic about this...

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 5:33 pm

The only thing unrealistic is the Redskins demands. Millen declined the 2 first rounders and the player offer. And your fooling yourself if you don't see that Champ doesn't want to be there. He'll play at a probowl level for sure, but I'm sure you've noticed the difference between a disgruntled Champ (past 2 seasons) and one who wants to play (early career). He would get a huge contract in Detroit either way.. It's a matter of what the redskins can salvage losing him. Even if you do franchise him this year, will you franchise him next? When it'll cost 8.16 million? I think not. At that point you DO lose him for nothing.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 7:26 pm

If Champ is franchised and sticks around for a year, I'm positive we will be able to sign him long-term. Early in his career, Champ played on some competitive teams. The last two years he played on one mediocre team, and one awful team. I played on football teams that were very good and very bad, so trust me when I say it affects even the most committed players performances.

"The only thing unrealistic is the Redskins demands. Millen declined the 2 first rounders and the player offer."

You have no idea what the Redskins are demanding. The fact of the matter is the only reason an offer that big is being discussed is because your General Manager is terrible at what he does (seriously Matt, go back to Fox, they need you there). If Bailey leaves, you can bet it's because the Redskins got a great deal...

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:17 pm

skinsfaninroanoke wrote:Just as a little side note - someone ought to b*tch slap his mom for the names - Champ and Boss? Sheesh.

Richie, I can't BELIEVE that comment came from you. :shock:

I'm not gonna say anything else about it.
Here's a link with their actual given names.
http://www.onlineathens.com/stories/041 ... 0018.shtml

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:23 pm

Our terrible GM did something that's causing you all this grief with Champ... he drafted his brother Boss. Even on PTI they think it's an unrealistic trade for 1st, 2nd and a a player. This has been the terms for the 2nd offer I believe, and it's in the media.

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:32 pm

This has been the terms for the 2nd offer I believe, and it's in the media.

don't believe everything the media writes or says. and i for one don't think we'll get a herschel walker deal for champ. i do however think a first rounder is very well possible. the lions aren't the only team in discussions with roland bailey. some team will cough up that 1st rounder. i hope it's the lions because of how high the pick is, but i'd ponder other offers if i were snyder.

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:42 pm

No you can't believe everything in the Media, but unfortunately that's all you can go by at some points. I do know that it's been stated by multiple sources (ESPN, freepress, Kowalski etc..) I also have my own source, and while I did not hear the terms of the offer from my source, I did here that it was exorbant and that Millen rejected it.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:43 pm

"Our terrible GM did something that's causing you all this grief with Champ... he drafted his brother Boss."

Oh you're right. When Matt Millen drafter Boss Bailey (because he knew that Champ might leave Washington the following season, and that having his little brother might give him the inside track on snagging him) that made up for his zero road wins in his three seasons in Detroit.

Dude, pick your battles...

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:50 pm

While he may be too boneheaded to realize that, that is the situation isn't it?

" his little brother might give him the inside track on snagging him"

Washington's fighting a losing battle, because Champ is going to be a Lion. I also fail to see what our road record has to do with this argument. Boss is going to be a fixture at Strong Side Linebacker for years to come. The fact that Champ would like to play with baby bro, just incidentally helps.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:53 pm

"While he may be too boneheaded to realize that, that is the situation isn't it?"

Yes it is, but you implied that because the Lions had such an advantage showed that Matt Millen was a competent GM...

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 8:55 pm

C&B, you seem sold on the fact that champ will be a lion for little or nothing in return. let me ask you this, if a deal can't be reached, and champ gets slapped with the franchise tag, don't you think the lions will try to fill their need at CB through FA or the draft? if so, you'll have no need to spend 60 mil on a corner next year.

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:04 pm

If you notice SS III, I don't exactly speak of Matt Millen in glowing terms, so I don't see how I can imply that he's a spectacular GM. The thing is he's been pretty good since last year, hiring Mariucci and drafting Dre Bly even though everyone said we overpaid for Dre. We had at least the 2nd best draft in 2003 as far as picking players go. And this year he hired Jauron as a DC, among other good coaching hires (per Mariucci's approval) We even hired Champs secondary coach in Catavolos, if there was any constant here for Champ, I know he liked Catavolos. Millen has a fat mouth, but he isn't stupid, he's not gonna botch Detroits future for Champ.

Yes they will fill a need need this year, but if a team has the opportunity to upgrade a position, they would do it. Even if it is next year. There are several examples of continuing to address a single position even though I can't think of any at the moment.

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:09 pm

If you don't see how you can imply Matt Millen is a good GM, maybe you need to examine your previous posts.

However, I've changed my mind. Millen is the greatest GM in league. I mean, "drafting Dre Bly" might have been the best move in the NFL last offseason. Maybe this offseason the Redskins will get their act together and draft Priest Holmes...

hailskins666 · Post by **hailskins666** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:10 pm

i just think if you guys pass on champ, you'll take the next best option, and consider it done, and over with. the not for long league dosen't wait around on people. from what i've read, millen dosen't have exactly what you would call job security, and if he dosen't have some turn around in his investments soon, he may not be around to make many more decisions.

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:11 pm

I apologize for my mistake, but resorting to pedantics, is a great way to win an argument.

DEHog · Post by **DEHog** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:17 pm

Couple of points here...if a deal is not struck and Champ gets tagged..the price for him could go up. (could be bad for the Skins I don't see anyone offering two #1's)

C&B what are "your" sources saying the Lions will offer for Champ?

Are the Lions prepared to make Champ the highest paid CB in the league??

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:21 pm

Sorry for discriminating. If you were a Redskins fan I'd let it slide.

Besides, apparently we aren't really arguing. We seem to agree that Matt Millen is a lousy GM.

I like Millen though. The best story about him is when he punched out the Patriots president after a playoff game when he was still a player...

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:21 pm

[quote="Steve Spurrier III]... but you implied that because the Lions had such an advantage showed that Matt Millen was a competent GM...[/quote]

[quote= Champ&Boss]If you notice SS III, I don't exactly speak of Matt Millen in glowing terms, so I don't see how I can imply that he's a spectacular GM.[/quote]

C&B, you mad interloper, you. If you're gonna be here (and I'm glad you are...it's easier to get the news out of Michigan :lol:

) you're gonna have to learn how to read when Spurrier writes. He's very meticulous, and has no tolerance for instances when you go off-topic or for when you misunderstand what he writes.

Not to "dummy it down" for you,(clearly, you don't need ME for that !

) but I've gone back and forth with him before. You HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION, or he'll come after you.
What he said, as I read it was that you equated Millen's advantage of having Boss Bailey on the team with Millen showing some competence at GM by going after Champ. Almost as if Millen had had that in mind all along when Boss was drafted, which is ridiculous.
He didn't say that you were calling Millen a "spectacular GM", just that you inferred that {Boss on team + Champ's unexpected free agent status= one sharp GM.}

Steve Spurrier III · Post by **Steve Spurrier III** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:24 pm

Thanks tc, I think...

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:39 pm

Millen does stupid stuff, like calling former players fa__ots and blurting mindless comments on live media, he's had a bad few first couple years, but since then, I have nothing to complain about as far as the personnell in coaches and players that he has brought in.

Answering DEHog

My insider sources, is someone I correspond with who apparently works for the Lions organization. He let's me know some of the happenings in the front office before the media announces it. I can trust him, because he hasn't been wrong yet.

Are the Lions prepared to make Champ the highest paid corner in the league?
It's certainly within their power. Approx. $25 million under the cap after certain cuts, restructured contracts and a possible retire. Resigning our free agents will cost at the most 6.5 million. I see them offering Dre's contract initially, and maybe one similar to the offer the Redskins made or even more. Either way it's big money, but I get the feeling that primarily Champ wants to play for Detroit, and may take a contract similar to Dre to make no distinction who is the no. 1 corner. He knows he's going to get a lot of money. He just has his reasons for wanting to be in Detroit. Besides, Detroit isn't shy about the big contracts.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 9:51 pm

Champ&Boss wrote:Millen does stupid stuff, like calling former players fa__ots and blurting mindless comments on live media.
My insider sources, is someone I correspond with who apparently works for the Lions organization. He let's me know some of the happenings in the front office before the media announces it. I can trust him, because he hasn't been wrong yet.

Firstly, you're doing the typos again. Johnnie Morton is only a "former" Lion, not player. Spurrier's gonna catch this. Don't say I didn't warn you.
Your "insider source" is "apparently" working in the Lions organization ? You don't know for sure ? You don't know who he is ? Better watch that one, my man. Soon, he'll tell you, "Hey, let's meet at Ste. Sault Marie Bridge. I'll bring Barry Sanders with me, and you can have your picture taken with him !"
We'll be reading about your unfortunate demise somewhere in
lake Superior.
Maybe your folks ought to get some of those parental controls goin' for you on the internet.

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:02 pm

What are you talking about? I have the utmost respect for my "source" and I don't take lightly some joke about him being an online child molester. I certainly know him more than I know you. I guess your free to do whatever you want, but I don't see the humor in this.

tcwest10 · Post by **tcwest10** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:14 pm

Champ&Boss wrote:My insider sources, is someone I correspond with who apparently works for the Lions organization. He let's me know some of the happenings in the front office before the media announces it. I can trust him, because he hasn't been wrong yet.

THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

"...some joke about him being an online child molester".

Those are your words, not mine. I have five kids, and you aren't one of them. If you took offense, I apologize.
Some alarm went off in the back of my head. I shouldn't have bothered you with it.

"I certainly know him more than I know you. I guess your free to do whatever you want, but I don't see the humor in this"

No, you don't know me. If you did, you'd know I meant no humor in that part of the post.
Oh, well. "There is none so blind as he who will not see."

Champ&Boss · Post by **Champ&Boss** » Mon Feb 16, 2004 10:24 pm

I took this as an attempt at humor

""Hey, let's meet at Ste. Sault Marie Bridge. I'll bring Barry Sanders with me, and you can have your picture taken with him !" "

And you're obviously identifying me as a child, or childlike when you say

"Maybe your folks ought to get some of those parental controls goin' for you on the internet."

How am I not supposed to be offended by that. I came here to talk football, relavent to what's happening between the redskins, champ and the lions. I have not resorted to ad hominems or questioned anyone's intelligence or maturity here, but I guess because I'm not a redskins fan, it's okay to do that to me.