Where Redskin Blame Belongs in 2006

Talk about the Washington Football Team here. Do you bleed burgundy and gold?
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Post by DEHog »

SkinsFreak wrote:
DEHog wrote:Dan Snyder!!


I'm really confused when people say it's Snyder's fault. Did Dan miss all those tackles or throw any interceptions? Does Dan draw up the game plans each week?

Every time Dan has paid a free agent to join the organization, everyone initially considers it to be a great move. Then, when the team struggles, it's "Dan's an idiot" and all his fault. :roll: I don't buy it. I'm actually happy that our owner is willing to spend his own money in a genuine effort to better the team.

Building a team through the draft does not always pay dividends either. Take the Cards or the Bucs for example. People down here are calling for Grudens head. The Bidwells in Phoenix used to never spend any money on their team in free agency and the fans there threatened to commit a drive-by on the Bidwells on a daily basis. I know because I lived there for a period of time.

Since Gibbs took over, ALL signings were made on the recommendation of the coaching staff, NOT Snyder. Be happy that he is at least willing to open his check book. I am.


Everyone who??
I did not like bringing Sanders,George,Smith here and giving them big$$$ whilele letting players like Champ,Peirce and Clark walk....Who do you blame for not having a GM??
It starts at the top, slice it anyway you want, but we have become the place to come and get PAID!
Players take pay cut sto stay in places like New England, why because they win.
When will the Redskins understand that a big payroll does not equal big production!
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
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Post by SkinsFreak »

DEHog wrote:Everyone who??


I really just meant the majority of the 'so called experts' and the media, not necessarily all the fans.

I agree with you. I just don't attribute everything to Snyder and don't think all these losses are directly his fault. At some point, the players the coaching staff have brought in, have to step up and make plays.

The coaches wanted these players, Snyder just made it possible.
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Post by Irn-Bru »

SkinsFreak wrote:Since the other thread was locked, I wanted to bring this here to this thread. I was hoping to get some feedback about this from the rest of you.

I actually thought Williams was doing just fine before Saunders got here. I know there is some debate about which guy should leave, but I actually like having Williams on the staff. His defensive scheme has worked here as well as Tennessee and Buffalo. Saunders success was basically with only one team.

If Williams were to leave, I'm not sure who could replace him.

And any notion of replacing Gibbs, in my opinion, is utterly absurd. At this time, he is the right guy to lead this team.

:feedback;



I don't think that Saunders coming to Washington had much to do with players not tackling and the other problems that we've seen on defense. I would agree with you that Williams should stay.

But I'd also like to see Saunders stay in D.C. I'm not privy to any communication issues or differences in philosophy that might make a shakeup necessary, but from what I've seen Saunders' system is simply being worked out.

His track record is good. He was the offensive coordinator for St. Louis in 1999 and 2000, when they had the #1 offense two years in a row and won a Superbowl.

The year that he joined the Chiefs (in 2001), they ranked 16th in points and 4th in yards. The next year they were 1st and 5th, respectively, and they never looked back. I'm probably in the minority now for thinking that Saunders should stay, but I guess I'm holding out hope that his scheme could work--and work very well--in D.C.

Also, I couldn't agree with you more on Gibbs ;)
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Post by roybus14 »

There may be some truth to GW being peeved or feeling threatened with the arrival of Saunders. Remember, Gibbs and Saunders go way back to their days under Don Coryell and the vaunted "Air Coryell" offense with Fouts, Winslow, Joiner, and our Dir. of Player Dev. John "JJ" Jefferson.

Also, Saunders' offense is legit. Look at KC over the past 5 years. I don't expect this team to hit the ground running with Saunders' offense. It may take a year or two before you start to see it. But what Joe Jackson Gibbs needs to do is establish order in that coaching staff and IMO, cut down on some of those coaches and get GW and Saunders' on the same page.

You got two of the better minds leading both sides of your ball and there should be something great coming out of that. Saunders' and GW should be sparring in practice, trying out their different schemes on each other, particularly in camp when you are not really game planning for teams yet. IMO, their practices against each other should make this team "battle ready" and really cooking by at least game four of next season....
Sean Taylor - 1983-2007 R.I.P.... Forever A Skin.....
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Post by DEHog »

SkinsFreak wrote:
DEHog wrote:Everyone who??


I really just meant the majority of the 'so called experts' and the media, not necessarily all the fans.

I agree with you. I just don't attribute everything to Snyder and don't think all these losses are directly his fault. At some point, the players the coaching staff have brought in, have to step up and make plays.

The coaches wanted these players, Snyder just made it possible.


I think that's part of the problem "the coaches" wanted these players. I think a good GM would have stepped in and made a difference.

Also I just feel DS has made many mistakes not just this year but in years past that have cost us.

Firing Norv Turner in the middle of a playoff race (which we'd have gotten in if he'd spend some of his $$$ on a kicker)
Firing Marty
Hiring SS
I don't want to hear anything about hiring Gibbs that was a no brainer, had Gibbs not come back DS would have had a marketing nightmare that even he couldn't have fixed.

The only way to describe him is to say he like a fantasy football owner.

Yes I'm glad we have a owner who wants to win...of course he spends $$$ have you seen the prices at FedEx lately??
I just prefer he spend his money on the players we produce!
"Sean Taylor is hands down the best athlete I've ever coached it's not even close" Gregg Williams 2005 Mini-Camp
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Post by SkinsFreak »

DEHog wrote:
SkinsFreak wrote:
DEHog wrote:Everyone who??


I really just meant the majority of the 'so called experts' and the media, not necessarily all the fans.

I agree with you. I just don't attribute everything to Snyder and don't think all these losses are directly his fault. At some point, the players the coaching staff have brought in, have to step up and make plays.

The coaches wanted these players, Snyder just made it possible.


I think that's part of the problem "the coaches" wanted these players. I think a good GM would have stepped in and made a difference.

Also I just feel DS has made many mistakes not just this year but in years past that have cost us.

Firing Norv Turner in the middle of a playoff race (which we'd have gotten in if he'd spend some of his $$$ on a kicker)
Firing Marty
Hiring SS
I don't want to hear anything about hiring Gibbs that was a no brainer, had Gibbs not come back DS would have had a marketing nightmare that even he couldn't have fixed.

The only way to describe him is to say he like a fantasy football owner.

Yes I'm glad we have a owner who wants to win...of course he spends $$$ have you seen the prices at FedEx lately??
I just prefer he spend his money on the players we produce!


As far as the coaching moves that Snyder has made, I agree with you 100%. These moves were solely his decisions. The only right one he made was bringing back Gibbs.

I believe in the old adage, "you live and learn". I feel Snyder has learned from his previous mistakes, and that's why Gibbs has control of this team and the personnel.

This next statement does not apply directly to you, DEHog.

I always here folks in the media, and those fans of other teams that listen to that junk, say that Snyder is SOLELY responsible for bringing in all these free agents, that he wanted them regardless of the recommendations made by the front office and coaching staff. I don't buy that. Maybe the first year Snyder took over, he was solely responsible for bringing in Deon Sanders and Bruce Smith, but other than those 2 guys, I don't believe the shots that certain media organizations take at Snyder. I have never seen any concrete proof that their accusations about Snyder are true.

And yes, I have seen the prices at FedEx. I come up there every year, except this year, I was involved in a move and the purchase of a new home. And yes, I've heard many folks complain about those prices, including me. But you know what? I haven't seen anyone stop paying those prices, including me. That $7 beer is pretty steep, but I still consume many while I'm there. :D
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Re: Where Redskin Blame Belongs in 2006

Post by 1niksder »

Gibbs4Life wrote:
1. Clinton Portis offensively it starts and ends with Clinton, So you broke your hand? Put a cast on it and let's go. See Jon Jansen.



That explains why he had shoulder surgery today because it'll take 6 months before he can play he might not even need the cast
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Post by TincoSkin »

i contend that there is no blame to be delt only a growing understanding that we were in a growing season. inbeween a year where we had a minimal number of playmakers that created a golden year winning a playoff game and a year where our greatly improved squad breaks out as a team for a superbowl run we are in a year of transition.

a new offense takes a year to adjust to .. unfortunatly our D didnt carry our team this year. but its not like our O was doing its job either.

next year when our O is all on the same page and our new QB is broken in we will be able to move the ball.. at which point hopefully our D gets the picture and plays with heart.

this is not a time to hand out blame but one to rally around our new offensive coordinator around gibbs and around our still very real potential as a powerhouse.

you could blame bringing in a bunch of new guys, you could blame gibbs or danny or the lack of a GM but all of these things are what is going to make our team a wreaking ball next year.

my prediction.. we go on a tare at the end of this year with a break out game or two for JC then we make only minor adjustments before next season. then we have a sperbowl year.

balme? there is no blame during growth, only pain as we work toward somthing better.
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Post by Gibbs4Life »

This off-season: Give me Dwight Freeney
Give me Nate Clements
Trade Archuleta for a bag of Tostitos
Is Ladell really that much better than Rock, no so don't overpay
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Post by SkinsFreak »

Nice assessment by Wilbon.

Coaches Coach. Get It?
By Michael Wilbon
Thursday, December 7, 2006; Page E01

When you look at some of the decisions being made by the Washington Redskins, you are led to wonder whether Joe Gibbs can ever fix all this, and, with all due respect to the Hall of Fame coach, how much of the dysfunction is his fault.

Any routine examination of the Redskins now reveals a team that constantly (and unsuccessfully) tries to remake itself, that repeatedly misevaluates personnel, that throws away high draft picks, that has too many coaches (and possibly the wrong ones).

They can spend whatever energy they want at Redskins Park trying to shoot the messenger, but the fact is the Redskins are no better off than the Arizona Cardinals or the Cleveland Browns, the NFL's perennial bottom feeders. No amount of money spent on veteran players and high-profile coaches has helped the Redskins do any better than 4-8.

Look no further than the Redskins' loss to Atlanta four days ago. Okay, neophyte quarterback Jason Campbell certainly didn't have a good day. He played like what he is essentially -- a rookie. But Campbell was nowhere near as incompetent as his coaches on Sunday. How, in good conscience, could Al Saunders or Gibbs (and whoever else might have called plays) allow a kid making his third NFL start to throw 38 passes? Coaches talk all the time about how they must put players in position to do well. How does asking a newborn quarterback to throw 38 times work to his advantage?

We heard all last week about how the Redskins were going to play more "Redskins football," which is their way of describing Gibbs's efficient and winning style of run-first football. And a 14-0 lead over a discouraged Falcons team battling its own issues was the perfect time to play it.

Turned out the Redskins had no interest in keeping their promise. Instead of rushing for 155 yards, Ladell Betts should have been given enough carries to rush for 300 yards. And if he grew tired, they should have given the ball to T.J. Duckett 20 times. A two-touchdown lead and a kid quarterback making his third start demanded it. But the Redskins went ahead with their absolutely nonsensical approach and lost.

After the game Gibbs said it was a mistake to get away from "Redskins football." And where exactly was Gibbs while this insurrection was occurring? Did he have laryngitis? Gibbs either had a hand in it happening or at the very least let it happen. And this leads to the bigger discussion, the view of the team beyond any one game.

The Saunders experiment should be about over now. Twelve games of disaster isn't enough? It's not that Al Saunders has forgotten how to coach in 10 months; he hasn't. He's put together brilliant offensive football teams for years. My bet is he'll be successful again.

But not here -- not with other chefs in a kitchen that is a mess. Probably somebody should demand that since Gibbs's bust sits in the Hall of Fame he ought to be running the offense, which includes calling the plays. Maybe it's difficult for Dan Snyder, since he idolized Gibbs as a kid, to order Gibbs back to doing what he did famously for all those great seasons. But somebody needs to. Once again, that somebody should be running the football operation, maximizing that side of the business the way Snyder has maximized the business side.

I've heard all the arguments from Redskins Park over the years as to why the club doesn't need a president of football operations or a general manager or Boss of Football -- whatever you want to call him. But the evidence has piled up so high over the last seven years it's become irrefutable.

Assistant coaches, no matter how glorified they are by title, don't need to be picking players. Coaching pro football is the most demanding, time-consuming, stressful job in sports. It's the equivalent of two full-time jobs. Scouting is a full-time job, too. Even good personnel people make mistakes, but not as many as the Redskins have made recently.

The defense, in three years, has let Antonio Pierce, Champ Bailey, Ryan Clark and Fred Smoot go. This is not balanced by the acquisition of Andre Carter (three sacks, one impact game) and Adam Archuleta, now a $10 million special teams player. You're not going to read any criticism of Archuleta here. He should have taken the money the Redskins offered. Right after the Redskins signed Archuleta, a scout told me: "Everybody in the league knows Archuleta has left it all on the field. He can't be an every-down player anymore. Why do you think St. Louis let him go? What are the Redskins thinking?"

Nowhere is the need for a general manager more evident than in the disastrous trade for Duckett. The Redskins gave up at least a third-round pick (the total cost of the deal won't be known until after the season) for an insurance policy against an injury to Clinton Portis and then did not play him even after Portis got injured. Or in situations perfectly suited to his talents.

And please, let's not take the easy way out and lay this at the feet of Vinny Cerrato, who isn't picking the primary players ultimately (though getting Kedric Golston in the sixth round was a nice find). Cerrato answers to Gibbs, period. And there's nothing in Gibbs's history, then or now, to suggest that he's a personnel ace. To flip Bill Parcells's phrase, Gibbs needs to cook the meal, but somebody else needs to shop for the groceries.

The Redskins have never been in greater need of having a football man run the football team, somebody with a long-term, big-picture view, not a coach's view. Every coach worth his whistle wants to trade all the draft picks the club has for a guy who can help him win this Sunday. The responsibility of an overseer is to plan for this Sunday and three years from Sunday, which often means telling the coach no. When Mike Holmgren's responsibilities were reduced and the Seahawks installed an overseer, Holmgren once again became a Super Bowl coach.

If the Redskins keep going in this direction, they'll turn the team over again, squander draft picks again, misevaluate other people's free agents again, and will be no better off than they were before Gibbs returned


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02074.html
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Post by SkinsFreak »

Even nicer assessment in Rich Tandlers rebuttal to Wilbons article.

Shallow Analysis


Did Saunders have Campbell throw too much? By Rich Tandler
Editor-in-Chief
Posted Dec 7, 2006

Tandler's Redskins Blog Ver. 12.08.06--Mike Wilbon is one of the most respected columnists out there but he's going to lose his reputation if he continues the shallow, vapid analysis he cranked out in his article today.


You can reach Rich Tandler by email at WarpathInsiders@comcast.net

Generally speaking, I’m a fan of Mike Wilbon. He is one of the most reasonable, knowledgeable, and respected newspaper columnists in the business. Rarely does he say or write something outrageous just for the sake of doing so or ask a question of a coach or athlete that is carefully crafted to draw attention to himself. This sets him apart from many of his brethren who have also become print/ESPN hybrids.

That’s why I was disappointed in his effort in today’s Post. Not that I disagree with his main thesis, that the Redskins desperately need a personnel manager who isn’t wearing a whistle. That is becoming more and more obvious every play that T. J. Duckett and Adam Archuleta watch. No, there were two points that he made that need to be examined here. First there was this one:

Look no further than the Redskins' loss to Atlanta four days ago. Okay, neophyte quarterback Jason Campbell certainly didn't have a good day. He played like what he is essentially -- a rookie. But Campbell was nowhere near as incompetent as his coaches on Sunday. How, in good conscience, could Al Saunders or Gibbs (and whoever else might have called plays) allow a kid making his third NFL start to throw 38 passes? Coaches talk all the time about how they must put players in position to do well. How does asking a newborn quarterback to throw 38 times work to his advantage?

Too busy traveling to the Monday night game city to do PTI or to wherever you’re doing the NBA pregame from, Mike, to do any more analysis of the Redskins game than to take a cursory glance at the final stats? If Wilbon had just taken a moment to pull up the Gamebook he could have figured out, just as I did, that in the first half when the Redskins had their 14-0 lead, Campbell threw 11 passes. In the third quarter, as the Redskins fell behind by three, the pace of passes increased slightly as Campbell threw seven times. Even after Atlanta took a 10-point lead with 12:26 to play Saunders tried not to place the entire game on Campbell’s shoulders. On the ensuing series Saunders called Ladell Betts’ number three times before calling for Campbell to throw. His third and two pass was incomplete. If anything, one might be tempted to call that series too conservative.

It was only after the Redskins regained possession with 6:22 left trailing by 10 that Campbell passes started to fill the air. In two futile attempts to score to try to pull the game out, Campbell threw 19 passes, exactly half of his total for the game. I don’t think that any reasonable person would conclude that Saunders was in a position where he had to call passes on virtually every single play. The game situation greatly inflated Campbell’s pass attempts. Anyone who was paying attention should know this and acknowledge it before taking potshots at the play calling.

And then, along those same lines, there’s this:

The Saunders experiment should be about over now. Twelve games of disaster isn't enough?

Mind you, Wilbon says this after stating that, “Any routine examination of the Redskins now reveals a team that constantly (and unsuccessfully) tries to remake itself. . .” in the second paragraph of the column. So since they try to remake themselves too often and that damages the team they should remake themselves again and get rid of Saunders? Again, he’s probably too busy to look it up but one can easily discover that the Chiefs’ offense struggled in Saunders’ first season calling the plays in Kansas City. I suppose that Wilbon would have had Dick Vermeil pull the plug on Saunders three quarters of the way through that season, too. Of course, once the Chiefs got things figured out they became the NFL’s most prolific offense for the next four seasons.

Let’s look at it this way—is it better to have Jason Campbell pass 19 times in the last six minutes of a game that this team is trailing by 10 points or to have him learning his seventh new offense in the past seven seasons.

Such "analysis" is more worthy of Wilbon’s vapid PTI and Washington Post sidekick that it is of a Pro Football Hall of Fame elector. Perhaps if he’s too busy to do the kind of in-depth analysis he needs to do in order to maintain his top-notch reputation he needs to hire a research assistant. I’m available, for the right price.



http://redskins.scout.com/2/598746.html
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Post by Irn-Bru »

I liked both articles. Good stuff, SkinsFreak.
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Post by TincoSkin »

that second artice touches on somthing ive stated in a few threads now.. this was Al's first year.. next year we will have a better understanding of the O and so will JC... we all threw a lot of blame around brunell, the wide outs, the line.. etc.. but learning a new O is tough. Als is only tougher.
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