The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.

All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.

forskins wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.

All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.

Again, we'll see. The Redskins haven't made as many "high profile" free agent moves in recent years, which is the shift that we're seeing from the early Snyder era. Again, this year was a down year, so I'm not defending our moves, but if you look at the free agents acquired in Gibbs' first two seasons we didn't go for the biggest names out there. . .with the one exception being Clinton Portis--and he's been a great addition, as it turns out.

Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Phillip Daniels, Griffin, Rabach, Thomas, Sellers, Moss. . .none of these were the biggest names out there, yet all have contributed as much as ey, Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Marshall, and our other draft picks have.

The key is to pick up FA's without the damage to the salary cap, which has clearly been the Skins strategy in the past few years. And, like I said, we'll see what works and what doesn't. The Cowboys look like the stronger team this year but were swept by the Skins last year. . .and you never know what next year will bring.

Irn-Bru wrote:

forskins wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.

All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.

Again, we'll see. The Redskins haven't made as many "high profile" free agent moves in recent years, which is the shift that we're seeing from the early Snyder era. Again, this year was a down year, so I'm not defending our moves, but if you look at the free agents acquired in Gibbs' first two seasons we didn't go for the biggest names out there. . .with the one exception being Clinton Portis--and he's been a great addition, as it turns out.

Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Phillip Daniels, Griffin, Rabach, Thomas, Sellers, Moss. . .none of these were the biggest names out there, yet all have contributed as much as ey, Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Marshall, and our other draft picks have.

The key is to pick up FA's without the damage to the salary cap, which has clearly been the Skins strategy in the past few years. And, like I said, we'll see what works and what doesn't. The Cowboys look like the stronger team this year but were swept by the Skins last year. . .and you never know what next year will bring.

Actually, those SBs were not before free agency, just free agency as we know it now. We got Wilbur Marshall in free agency from Da Bears. Also Portis was aquired via trade, not free agency. Same with Moss. But hey, why throw logic and reality into a 'Pie fan's delusions.

Skins2daGrave wrote:haha, i guess everyone would rather see them miss the post season

yepper and that inludes me too .

i simply hate the cowboys...period..

JSPB22 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

forskins wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.

All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.

Again, we'll see. The Redskins haven't made as many "high profile" free agent moves in recent years, which is the shift that we're seeing from the early Snyder era. Again, this year was a down year, so I'm not defending our moves, but if you look at the free agents acquired in Gibbs' first two seasons we didn't go for the biggest names out there. . .with the one exception being Clinton Portis--and he's been a great addition, as it turns out.

Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Phillip Daniels, Griffin, Rabach, Thomas, Sellers, Moss. . .none of these were the biggest names out there, yet all have contributed as much as ey, Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Marshall, and our other draft picks have.

The key is to pick up FA's without the damage to the salary cap, which has clearly been the Skins strategy in the past few years. And, like I said, we'll see what works and what doesn't. The Cowboys look like the stronger team this year but were swept by the Skins last year. . .and you never know what next year will bring.

Actually, those SBs were not before free agency, just free agency as we know it now. We got Wilbur Marshall in free agency from Da Bears. Also Portis was aquired via trade, not free agency. Same with Moss. But hey, why throw logic and reality into a 'Pie fan's delusions.

As I recall, draft picks and new contracts were involved.

Selective memory is a great thing, isn't it?

Primetime42 wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

forskins wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:
Wow. Then I suppose that Gibbs won three "bass ackwards" Superbowls, as well as lead a 10-6 team, with a sweep of Dallas, to the playoffs last year. His philosophy on personnel has been fairly consistent throughout his career in the NFL.

All of those Superbowls were before Free Agency, so one could go on spending spree with Free Agents and not think twice about it. That same philosophy won't bring long term success in today's game when Free agents are paid tons more then drafted rookies.

Again, we'll see. The Redskins haven't made as many "high profile" free agent moves in recent years, which is the shift that we're seeing from the early Snyder era. Again, this year was a down year, so I'm not defending our moves, but if you look at the free agents acquired in Gibbs' first two seasons we didn't go for the biggest names out there. . .with the one exception being Clinton Portis--and he's been a great addition, as it turns out.

Marcus Washington, Shawn Springs, Phillip Daniels, Griffin, Rabach, Thomas, Sellers, Moss. . .none of these were the biggest names out there, yet all have contributed as much as ey, Jansen, Taylor, Rogers, Marshall, and our other draft picks have.

The key is to pick up FA's without the damage to the salary cap, which has clearly been the Skins strategy in the past few years. And, like I said, we'll see what works and what doesn't. The Cowboys look like the stronger team this year but were swept by the Skins last year. . .and you never know what next year will bring.

Actually, those SBs were not before free agency, just free agency as we know it now. We got Wilbur Marshall in free agency from Da Bears. Also Portis was aquired via trade, not free agency. Same with Moss. But hey, why throw logic and reality into a 'Pie fan's delusions.

As I recall, draft picks and new contracts were involved.

Selective memory is a great thing, isn't it?

Draft picks and new contracts don't make a trade any less of a trade, do they? Selective comprehension is not so great a thing, is it?

Just pointing out that it falls into the same category, which is called "Mortgaging the future".

No need to get uppity.

Nobody gives a damn what you think.

Primetime42 wrote:Just pointing out that it falls into the same category, which is called "Mortgaging the future".

No need to get uppity.

No there certainly isn't. Especially if you know any history. Say how George Allen and Bobby Beathard "mortgaged the future" all of those years when we went to 5 SBs and 6 Championship games. If you choose wisely, a veteran is often a better deal than a draft pick. BTW the 3 SBs for the 'Pies were the result of the Herschel Walker trade to Minnesota, Mr. selective memory.



PS How's Martin Grammatica treating ya? What was the damage for Vanderchoke? 2.5 mil or so? That's a hefty mortgage payment for a guy that made 5 of 18 FGs for the 'Pies.

JSPB22 wrote:Actually, those SBs were not before free agency, just free agency as we know it now. We got Wilbur Marshall in free agency from Da Bears. Also Portis was aquired via trade, not free agency. Same with Moss. But hey, why throw logic and reality into a 'Pie fan's delusions.

You know what, I actually mispoke before, I meant to say Salary Cap. Of course free agency has been around for quite some time.

I know you guys are loving the recent debacle of Vanderjerk. So the Cowboys have one free agent bust this year. Are you the Redskins still paying part of Arrington's salary still? Just curious.

forskins wrote:Are you the Redskins still paying part of Arrington's salary still? Just curious.

This isn't baseball...

1niksder wrote:

forskins wrote:

JSPB22 wrote:Are you the Redskins still paying part of Arrington's salary still? Just curious.

This isn't baseball...

You're putting foul words in my mouth, 1nik.

JSPB22 I have no idea what you are talking about

No, I'm sure you don't.

forskins wrote:You know what, I actually mispoke before, I meant to say Salary Cap. Of course free agency has been around for quite some time.

I know you guys are loving the recent debacle of Vanderjerk. So the Cowboys have one free agent bust this year. Are you the Redskins still paying part of Arrington's salary still? Just curious.

forskins, if you can tell me the name of a single player that the Skins wanted to sign but couldn't due to the salary cap, then I'll respond to your point about this being a salary cap era.

Or, if you can tell me when the Skins will actually hit salary cap hell--since we're, you know, "mortgaging our future" and all. . .year after year after year without end. . . --then we can keep talking. Until then, it looks to me like you're just giving us regurgitated ESPN talking points.

JPM36 wrote:Nobody gives a damn what you think.

That's an obvious lie considering you offer 5th grade rebuttals to a good 80% of the posts I make here

Primetime42 wrote:

JPM36 wrote:Nobody gives a damn what you think.

That's an obvious lie considering you offer 5th grade rebuttals to a good 80% of the posts I make here

I don't need to take the time to refute every idiotic post you make.

Other people have already done it for me. Telling you how wrong you are would just be redundant.


Why don't you respond to those posts?

Go read. I've responded to every rational argument made to me.

You on the other hand, just keep telling me I'm wrong while making backhanded attempts at insulting me.

Instead of telling me I'm wrong, why not try telling me WHY I'm wrong for once?

I never said you were wrong about anything.

All I said was that nobody here cares what you have to say.

And I told you outright that you're full of it because that simply isn't the case.

There are actually people here I have rational conversation with, you know.

Primetime42 wrote:Go read. I've responded to every rational argument made to me.

Except this one:

JSPB22 wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:Just pointing out that it falls into the same category, which is called "Mortgaging the future".

No need to get uppity.

No there certainly isn't. Especially if you know any history. Say how George Allen and Bobby Beathard "mortgaged the future" all of those years when we went to 5 SBs and 6 Championship games. If you choose wisely, a veteran is often a better deal than a draft pick. BTW the 3 SBs for the 'Pies were the result of the Herschel Walker trade to Minnesota, Mr. selective memory.



PS How's Martin Grammatica treating ya? What was the damage for Vanderchoke? 2.5 mil or so? That's a hefty mortgage payment for a guy that made 5 of 18 FGs for the 'Pies.

Irn-Bru wrote:
forskins, if you can tell me the name of a single player that the Skins wanted to sign but couldn't due to the salary cap, then I'll respond to your point about this being a salary cap era.

Or, if you can tell me when the Skins will actually hit salary cap hell--since we're, you know, "mortgaging our future" and all. . .year after year after year without end. . . --then we can keep talking. Until then, it looks to me like you're just giving us regurgitated ESPN talking points.

How can tossing draft picks into the trash can for underachieving veterans even be considered building blocks for your future? So what big name player have they brought in that has been worth what the price they payed? Trading the best Corner in football for Portis won't cut it by the way.

Thanks to Jerry Jones wiggling the extra room in the salary cap this year, the "Salary Cap Hell" you speak of is offset this year. Was Brunnel really the best guy on the market that year?? David Patten?? Randle El?? Lloyd? Archuleta? Andre Carter?

It seems that there are some mighty fine DRAFT PICKS that are outperforming all of those guys.

Primetime42 wrote:And I told you outright that you're full of it because that simply isn't the case.

There are actually people here I have rational conversation with, you know.

When did I say you were wrong about anything? I just said I don't care about what you think. What are you talking about dude? Why don't you leave us all alone and go talk to the half dozen people at CowboysGuide.

I'm perfectly capable of having a rational conversation with anyone but you don't deserve my time. A Cowboys fan from NY/NJ?? What a scumbag sellout. Probably roots for the Yankees too.

forskins wrote:How can tossing draft picks into the trash can for underachieving veterans even be considered building blocks for your future? So what big name player have they brought in that has been worth what the price they payed? Trading the best Corner in football for Portis won't cut it by the way.

Thanks to Jerry Jones wiggling the extra room in the salary cap this year, the "Salary Cap Hell" you speak of is offset this year. Was Brunnel really the best guy on the market that year?? David Patten?? Randle El?? Lloyd? Archuleta? Andre Carter?

It seems that there are some mighty fine DRAFT PICKS that are outperforming all of those guys.

First, contracts never really come back to hurt the Redskins. If you answer my original questions in the above posts, then we'll talk about 'overpaid' or 'salary cap hell' that we're destined for. By saying that Salary Cap Hell for the Skins has merely been "offset this year," you join a rich and long tradition of football "analysts" who have been predicting or downfall for years. (And years).

Just a random sampling:

Santana Moss.

Marcus Washington has been a beast for us. FA pickup.

Phillip Daniels has played very well. So has Griffin. (I believe both were FA pickups).

Randy Thomas and Casey Rabach have been very good additions. Whatever the doubt from this year, they may still prove themselves. . .and they showed how good they were last year when the Skins were on a roll. (See: 35-7).

Say what you want about the Champ / Portis trade but the Redskins got at least as good of a deal as the Broncos. They used the draft pick on Tatum Bell, who hasn't been near the replacement for Portis that a Denver fan might hope for. Meanwhile, the Skins picked up Shawn Springs cheap, who has had a good career here. I won't make the bold claim that we definitely did better than the Broncos, but I don't see how we did worse. Besides, I'd rather have a franchise guy at RB than at CB.


The 49ers picked up a WR named Brandon Williams with the pick they acquired from us in the trade for Lloyd. Lloyd has been overshadowed by the Skins poor performance overall this year, but he's shown moments of what he has the potential to be once we smooth things out. Williams has seen 8 games with primarily kick and punt return duty.

I would type more but I know that neither of us are looking at this in an open-minded fashion. I've given my monologue; I'm sure that you'll reciprocate. However, I will say that it's telling to me that you don't answer my objections to the whole "salary cap hell" bit, and that you don't often give an account for what you are saying but rather only try to lob darts back in the other direction.

JPM36 wrote:

Primetime42 wrote:And I told you outright that you're full of it because that simply isn't the case.

There are actually people here I have rational conversation with, you know.

When did I say you were wrong about anything? I just said I don't care about what you think. What are you talking about dude? Why don't you leave us all alone and go talk to the half dozen people at CowboysGuide.

I'm perfectly capable of having a rational conversation with anyone but you don't deserve my time. A Cowboys fan from NY/NJ?? What a scumbag sellout. Probably roots for the Yankees too.

Don't forget Duke! And the L.A. Lakers.


Just kidding, PrimeTime. . .I won't assume the absolute worst about you. . .