The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

die cowboys die wrote:but by far the most disturbing thing is that for the 2nd time in 3 games, we've gotten down big in the 2nd half and have literally not even tried to get back in the game, let alone win it. down by 20+ and we're throwing 3 yard slants, 1 yard screens, 2 yard dump-offs? whoever is responsible for this needs to lose their job, period. whether that's brunell, saunders, gibbs, the team cook, or . end of discussion.

Yeah, that really bugs me also. I know they're not giving up but at times it does seem that way.

Anybody else notice that, when the play breaks down, Thrash is the only one that leaves his route to try and give Brunell an option? It looked to me like Moss and Co. stayed locked in, and I thought I saw Randle El turn around to watch Brunell scrambling for dear life.

You know the worst part of all this? Unless Brunell retires at the end of this year, we will likely see it again at some point next year. Look how much time Gibbs gave Ramsey. As long as Brunell is on the roster, Gibbs is going to want to stick him in there. This team could be losing with Mark Brunell under center deep into next year.

nnskinsfan wrote:They did ask. He said he was going to bring in Todd, I think it was, with around 9 minutes to go but we never got the ball back. He said he knew everyone would want to ask about QB but he didn't want to discuss it.

he said Mark was "having a tough day"....what, how bout a tough 3 years

tcwest10 wrote:I wouldn't have thrown Campbell in there either, considering the fact that Trotter spent a half hour of regulation chasing Brunell all over the place in the backfield.

Campbell can't go in until both Brunnel and Collins are injured. He's the 3rd string qb, NFL rules.

1fan4ramsey wrote:

tcwest10 wrote:I wouldn't have thrown Campbell in there either, considering the fact that Trotter spent a half hour of regulation chasing Brunell all over the place in the backfield.

Campbell can't go in until both Brunnel and Collins are injured. He's the 3rd string qb, NFL rules.

THEN MAKE HIM #2 OR #1. THIS TEAM IS A JOKE, AS IS THE FRONT OFFICE AND STAFF.

Letting Ramsey go, only to pick up Collins is one of many boneheaded moves. Clark was let go because of a VERY good stiff arm from LT. AA is a joke of a replacement.

Until this team learns to reward its own, rather thn buying the "hot FA," we will be stuck in mediocrity.

He can go in. The others just can't play after that happens.

Mursilis wrote:You know the worst part of all this? Unless Brunell retires at the end of this year, we will likely see it again at some point next year. Look how much time Gibbs gave Ramsey. As long as Brunell is on the roster, Gibbs is going to want to stick him in there. This team could be losing with Mark Brunell under center deep into next year.

This is what terrifies me and what I have been saying on this board for a month. If not now for JC then when? I cannot imagine Gibbs starting JC next year if he does not play this year.

nnskinsfan wrote:He can go in. The others just can't play after that happens.

Brunell can't play anyway, as far as Collins he was terrible most of the preseason, that all i now of him, His playing time was limited in KC.

Doesn't Brunnell have a huge chunk of guaranteed money coming next year and/or the following? Maybe he's threatening to take it all instead of coming to some sort of agreement unless they keep starting him. I'm using flawed CBA language here but I hope you can still grasp what I'm trying to say. Or, maybe the Redskins are wary of angering for fear of this. I think this may have been brought up before in a different thread.

ATV wrote:Doesn't Brunnell have a huge chunk of guaranteed money coming next year and/or the following? Maybe he's threatening to take it all instead of coming to some sort of agreement unless they keep starting him. I'm using flawed CBA language here but I hope you can still grasp what I'm trying to say. Or, maybe the Redskins are wary of angering for fear of this. I think this may have been brought up before in a different thread.

I think Gibbs just thinks he's the man for reasons only known to him.

1fan4ramsey wrote:

tcwest10 wrote:I wouldn't have thrown Campbell in there either, considering the fact that Trotter spent a half hour of regulation chasing Brunell all over the place in the backfield.

Campbell can't go in until both Brunnel and Collins are injured. He's the 3rd string qb, NFL rules.

But that's NOT the rule. Whether the #3 QB plays is completely up to the coach.

What the rules say is that if #3 goes in the game before the fourth quarter, #1 and #2 cannot play the rest of the game.

But in the fourth quarter, you can put #1 or #2 back in the game as if it were any other position.

Here's where I found it:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskins ... ation.html

RedskinsFreak wrote:

1fan4ramsey wrote:

tcwest10 wrote:I wouldn't have thrown Campbell in there either, considering the fact that Trotter spent a half hour of regulation chasing Brunell all over the place in the backfield.

Campbell can't go in until both Brunnel and Collins are injured. He's the 3rd string qb, NFL rules.

But that's NOT the rule. Whether the #3 QB plays is completely up to the coach.

What the rules say is that if #3 goes in the game before the fourth quarter, #1 and #2 cannot play the rest of the game.

But in the fourth quarter, you can put #1 or #2 back in the game as if it were any other position.

Here's where I found it:

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/redskins ... ation.html

Thanks for the clarification! I wasn't sure on the exact rule.

Did anybody watch Post Game Live? Czaban and B.Mitchell were really getting on the Redskins and Gibbs (it was all well deserved), and when Mark Brunell was interviewed. Czaban asked him two excellent questions (verbatim):

1. Do you think that you should be the Redskins quarterback in 2007?

2. If it becomes a situation where the Redskins are out of the playoff race completely, will you go to the coach and say 'Hey, you know, the season is basically over, you should play another qb'

I don't know if anyone saw it, but Mark Brunell got very defensive (well lets just be honest, I think he was pissed) but the situation the Redskins are in right now is absolutely ridiculous.

So much wasted money, and wasted potential. Jason Campbell has been sitting on the sideline two years now, with no playing time, even though Gibbs has said 'he's the QB of the future'....and for what? Brunell? Someone who, without that completion to Lloyd would have had 89 TOTAL passing yards today?

What is it going to take for Gibbs to realize that his blind loyalty to Brunell is HURTING this team.

I thought the guy was a prick but oh well.

nnskinsfan wrote:I thought the guy was a prick but oh well.

I didn't think he was a prick, I thought it was a question that needed to be asked. My only problem is that he was asking the wrong person - the question shoudl have been directed to Gibbs.

It was a fair question, when Steve McNair was in Tennessee he told that coaching staff to start looking for a qb because he didn't know how much longer he would be able to play QB. Why is it an unreasonable question to ask? It's for the good of the team.

cleg wrote:

Mursilis wrote:You know the worst part of all this? Unless Brunell retires at the end of this year, we will likely see it again at some point next year. Look how much time Gibbs gave Ramsey. As long as Brunell is on the roster, Gibbs is going to want to stick him in there. This team could be losing with Mark Brunell under center deep into next year.

This is what terrifies me and what I have been saying on this board for a month. If not now for JC then when? I cannot imagine Gibbs starting JC next year if he does not play this year.

carson palmer spent 1 (or 2 was it) years on the bench before becoming the starter with no playing time before that and look at him, a star.

Maybe I wouldn't be so tired of Marky Mark if he didn't stand on the sidelines like he just took some enzyte



I know that isn't a picture from today, I wish I could find one of any of our losses though because he looks remarkably like this guy.

Am I going crazy or did I see TJ Duckett actually get a carry today?

I agree with pretty much everyone here that: A) The off-season moves this team has made are just mind boggling. We need a GM. B) Why is Mark Brunell still playing for this team? JC needs a shot, regardless of the outcome. Just give the kid a shot. C) Saunders play calling is a joke. Why do we not try and go downfield more often? We did it once today and Lloyd made an amazing catch, why not try it more often. At the very least we may draw the interference call.

The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet in this thread is all the missed tackles today. I realize it was a nasty day out there weather-wise, but give me a break. Our defense had so many situations today where a RB or a WR got 5, 10, 15 yards extra due to arm tackling and flat out poor effort. While I agree that Brunell should shoulder a lot of the blame for this loss, to be fair the defense should be carrying their fair share as well. Very poor effort by those guys today.

Ladell Betts continues to impress me by the way (I had to say something positive)!

Inspired wrote:Am I going crazy or did I see TJ Duckett actually get a carry today?

I agree with pretty much everyone here that: A) The off-season moves this team has made are just mind boggling. We need a GM. B) Why is Mark Brunell still playing for this team? JC needs a shot, regardless of the outcome. Just give the kid a shot. C) Saunders play calling is a joke. Why do we not try and go downfield more often? We did it once today and Lloyd made an amazing catch, why not try it more often. At the very least we may draw the interference call.

The one thing I haven't seen anyone mention yet in this thread is all the missed tackles today. I realize it was a nasty day out there weather-wise, but give me a break. Our defense had so many situations today where a RB or a WR got 5, 10, 15 yards extra due to arm tackling and flat out poor effort. While I agree that Brunell should shoulder a lot of the blame for this loss, to be fair the defense should be carrying their fair share as well. Very poor effort by those guys today.

Ladell Betts continues to impress me by the way (I had to say something positive)!

The only reason I can think of for the play calling is that Gibbs has told Saunders a) Mark Brunell is the Quarterback but b) other than that, the offense is yours. As an inttelligent coordinator, Saunders knows that Brunell can't throw anything accurate over about 15 yards so all the plays are designed for short passes.

I've never seen Gibbs like this on the sidelines. Basically, no one talks to him. He seems isolated from his coaches. Not a good sign.

Perhaps the reason the Redskins are not trying to go down field is that Gibbs keeps Brunell in and he cannot go down field very often. If that is the case, then Saunders has no choice but to do the dink-n-dunks.

But today was not all about Brunell. The defense missed more tackles than kids playing Pop Warner. The offense just didn't function at all. Oh, it moved up and down the field but couldn't score.

I seem to remember a story about Gibbs wife saying that if he got back into coaching, he could damage his reputation. From my point of view, it is damaged and he did it to himself by his insistance on Brunell and the make-over of the team every year. Think about it, every year we have had major changes in personnel. Last years 5 in a row was inspired football but in the off season, the guys that stepped up went elsewhere, some by choice, some not.

I do believe that the game has passed Gibbs by and he cannot be an effective NFL head coach.

I'm so frustrated I had to search for a good message board to vent on. This looks great...

A lot of good post-game comments...here's my take:

Offense: The running game looked good. It's too bad we stalled at their 35 the first three drives. Betts looked great. Duckett looked good. The passing game continues to look inept, as has been stated many times.

Thought: What if the game plan continues to be limited BECAUSE of Brunell? I'm with you - we need to see what Campbell can do. He can't do any worse than Brunell. Granted, I truly don't think today's loss is his fault. But something on the offense needs to change. He's made a lot of bad decisions this year - and that's the opposite of why he's in there. Gibbs likes his veterans because they supposedly DON'T make mistakes.

Look at the Dallas game. Exciting victory. FedEx was rocking. But it was a lucky victory. Novak has no confidence. Brunell made a lot of bad decisions. Third and 2 and he's running parallel to the line of scrimmage with nobody near him. Instead of running for the first down he tries forcing a pass downfield. Just dumb. Not a veteran play. There have been many like that. ey's TD. He forced that in there when he had a man wide open underneath, about halfway to the end zone. I'm glad it worked out, but he constantly seems to force things like that.

Next: Our kicker. We need a real one. Novak just hasn't been kicking the ball well.

Bigger: Our defense. I thought they played fairly well, except for the usual, very important bug. The big play. We continue to give up the big play. Our secondary is HORRIBLE. We don't get sacks, we don't get turnovers. Speaking of turnovers, can anybody get an interception??? The number of times Marcus Washington has dropped a pick that hits him in the hands. Turnovers are HUGE momentum swings. He picks of McNabb early and we might have a completely different complexion on the game!!

That's all for now. I know I've babbled a lot for my first post, but I'm frustrated.

SlkyCaramel wrote:Did anybody watch Post Game Live? Czaban and B.Mitchell were really getting on the Redskins and Gibbs (it was all well deserved), and when Mark Brunell was interviewed. Czaban asked him two excellent questions (verbatim):

1. Do you think that you should be the Redskins quarterback in 2007?

2. If it becomes a situation where the Redskins are out of the playoff race completely, will you go to the coach and say 'Hey, you know, the season is basically over, you should play another qb'

I don't know if anyone saw it, but Mark Brunell got very defensive (well lets just be honest, I think he was pissed) but the situation the Redskins are in right now is absolutely ridiculous.

I agree that Brunell should have been sent packing a long time ago. But this sort of question is out of place. What sort of mentality do you want your quarterback to have? For my money, I want a quarterback who is always confident, always wants to be in the game, never ready to quit, always ready to come back and try again. If the guy is delusional and can't see reality for what it is, then it is the coach's role to make a change.

I agree with Snout regarding the post game interview. You can't expect Brunell to say "yep, it's time for Campbell, I suck". It is the coach's job to realize when your guy isn't cutting it and pull the trigger on making a change. That question should have been aimed squarely at Joe Gibbs. He is the only person who can answer for why we haven't seen Jason Campbell to this point and if/when we will see him in the near future.

FYI: The show comes on again at 1:30 a.m. on Comcast (Channel 11 everywhere I believe)