The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The main reasons why the Redskins are bad:

1. Overpaying for free agents whose best days in football are behind them. Examples: Carter and Archuleta.

2. Overpaying for free agents that don't bring allot to the table. Examples: Randle El and Lloyd.
a. Randle El's only great success was on throw in the Superbowl. What else has the guy done? 7 TDs in 4 year career is not a high-calibur wide reciever make.
b. Lloyd is really worth a 3rd round pick? Are you serious?

3. Horrible drafts the last few years. If Jason Cambell is not the guy, then the 1st round pick on him was completely wasted. It doesn't help when half of the picks are given away for washed up vets either.

Bottom line: I think the execs on this team got caught eating the cheese that the media had been pumping out and now realizes that you can't fill a plate with just cheese, you need some young meat in there somewhere.

We are bad cause, we were never that good. Last year Philly wasn't even in it, NYG won the East, Dallas was one game behind us. We totally sucked against the Raiders, Chargers and Tampa.

Our O couldn't produce anything in the playoffs. We picked up a few good players like Randle el and Llyod, but our D sucks, Rumph, A Carter, and AA.

Plus trade for Duckett???? dont even used him.

Ladel sucks too. all hype

forskins wrote:The main reasons why the Redskins are bad:

1. Overpaying for free agents whose best days in football are behind them. Examples: Carter and Archuleta.

2. Overpaying for free agents that don't bring allot to the table. Examples: Randle El and Lloyd.
a. Randle El's only great success was on throw in the Superbowl. What else has the guy done? 7 TDs in 4 year career is not a high-calibur wide reciever make.
b. Lloyd is really worth a 3rd round pick? Are you serious?

3. Horrible drafts the last few years. If Jason Cambell is not the guy, then the 1st round pick on him was completely wasted. It doesn't help when half of the picks are given away for washed up vets either.

Bottom line: I think the execs on this team got caught eating the cheese that the media had been pumping out and now realizes that you can't fill a plate with just cheese, you need some young meat in there somewhere.

Posting this here at this point in the season is akin to strapping a side of beef to yourself and jumping into a tank full of piranahs. I admire your "enthusiasm" though.

I know, truth hurts don't it.

I beleive the title of this topic is "This is why were bad..."

forskins wrote:I know, truth hurts don't it.

I beleive the title of this topic is "This is why were bad..."

I don't know man, with Portis back I look for us to get back on track. I admit that I believe Brunell is done, but as for everything else you say, the Archuletta thing is the only one I agree with. Sean Taylor was a pretty good pick and Campbell/Rogers/Mcintosh seem promising....

You are a Cowboys fan right?

forskins wrote:I know, truth hurts don't it.

I beleive the title of this topic is "This is why were bad..."

Yeah but your post is about the Redskins and why they are bad, NOW.

If the most just forgot to put the skins in the title then it should be "This is why the Redskins were bad"
So you still haven't told us wht they were bad you pointed out why you think they are bad now (Of course I disagree). So what does your post have to do with the title?

BTW you got more out of the title than a lot of peeps

1niksder wrote:Yeah but your post is about the Redskins and why they are bad, NOW.

If the most just forgot to put the skins in the title then it should be "This is why the Redskins were bad"
So you still haven't told us wht they were bad you pointed out why you think they are bad now (Of course I disagree). So what does your post have to do with the title?

BTW you got more out of the title than a lot of peeps

' "Boy".. I don't understand a word you just said! '

forskins wrote:The main reasons why the Redskins are bad:

1. Overpaying for free agents whose best days in football are behind them. Examples: Carter and Archuleta.

Well you can't be calling them too old. . .Archuleta is a vintage '1977 DB and Carter clocks in at 27 years of age. I guess anything over 25 and you start to get uncomfortable. . .

OR, I guess you know something about their future that no one else in the world is able to. Maybe that's more likely than you simply making stuff up.

2. Overpaying for free agents that don't bring allot to the table. Examples: Randle El and Lloyd.

Randle El's total cap this year: 1.59 million.
Lloyd's total cap this year: 1.58 million.

If every player was playing at that salary level we'd be about 30 million under the cap! I wish we overpaid every player. . .

a. Randle El's only great success was on throw in the Superbowl. What else has the guy done? 7 TDs in 4 year career is not a high-calibur wide reciever make.

I've talked to several Pitt fans who were sad to see him go. Phillip Daniels was nothing special when he arrived here (a journey-man DE more than anything else), but he's found a place to shine here. Randy Thomas was so-so with the Jets but simply dominated last year. Maybe Randle El won't work out but there isn't any reason that he can't.

b. Lloyd is really worth a 3rd round pick? Are you serious?

Yes. Are you one of the disgruntled 49er fans?

3. Horrible drafts the last few years. If Jason Cambell is not the guy, then the 1st round pick on him was completely wasted. It doesn't help when half of the picks are given away for washed up vets either.

Draft picks of note:
* Sean Taylor
* Chris ey
* Jason Campbell
* Carlos Rogers


By the way, you have a foolproof argument against any teams draft picks that I'll simply have to borrow. "If X player, taken in the 1st round, doesn't work out for you, then that was a wasted pick!!1!" Brilliant.


Considering the limited draft picks that we have had in the last few years, that list above is not a bad core group.


As for draft picks used on players (or, as you call these 20-something year olds, "washed up veterans" ): old man Clinton Portis, and James Thrash (older? yes. . .washed up? Hard to say. We got him with a 5th rounder I believe and he has been a stud on special teams).

Who exactly are all of these washed up veterans that we're signing using up draft picks?! Those are the only two I can think of at the moment. . .and I think the rest came from Free Agency.

Most of our draft picks have actually been used to acquire higher picks in other drafts. This is how we acquired ey, Campbell, and McIntosh. Was it worth it? We'll know in 5 years.

Bottom line: I think the execs on this team got caught eating the cheese that the media had been pumping out and now realizes that you can't fill a plate with just cheese, you need some young meat in there somewhere.

I don't even know what this means, but it's a nice unconnected analogy to conclude your cute little argument that the Redskins are the same team from 2000. You know, back when your main points actually applied to the team you were criticizing.

Do your homework next time before you try and take our team to task. . .we're all up for debate here but we need you to bring some relevant points to the table, first.

Dangerfield wrote:
' "Boy".. I don't understand a word you just said! '

Now I don't feel alone

Dangerfield wrote:
' "Boy".. I don't understand a word you just said! '

But I think I agree with you.

NikiH wrote:Wow Walt Harris you're right we lost soooooo many players last year that it's really effected us. (SARCASM) Ryan Clark is gone, Lavar (who wasn't even a starter) is gone. Sorry that theory is bogus.

And Brandon Lloyd is selfish? Have you ever heard the man speak? Do you own a television set? I've heard him be the least selfish person at Redskins Park. I've seen him go out there and never say a word even if he only gets thrown to once.

Either way, welcome to the board and I hope your posts because better researched and better aimed in the future.

Nikih,

I have valid criticisms in relation to the handling of personnel on defense.

That the defense has degenerated each year is on- the -face- of- it evidence of mistakes in the handling of personnel.

Not having Arrington on the field last year in conjunction with playing Holdman was disasterous. Holdman, for whatever reason, contributed nothing and cost us dearly game after game. If you remember, we were praying for Arrington's return. Our defense immediately improved when
he returned, but Williams refused to credit the obvious and instead floated negative charges against him (that he wouldn't play according to the system). As I remember, there was no consequence of LA's so-called not playing in the system; there was, however, wildly abundant evidence that players who had played the system (Holdman, for instance) were dismal failures.
Williams' wanting to get rid of LA and putting Holdman back in after proving his incapacity, to me, is evidence that Williams considers his system more important than having talented players. That's nonsense.
Successful systems without superior players do not exist, regardless of a coach's publicity and ego.
Williams also let Smoot and Pierce go, which has cost us dearly, then Clark, Arrington, Bowen, and contributing reserves who were a part of his first successfull seasons here. Hubris, pure hubris. We're seeing now what happens to a system when its thought to be cause of its own success and the players mere plug ins,

The Skins' problems, on offense and defense and special teams, are caused, simply, by bad coaching and a consequent loss of morale.

What a total load of garbage that post is.

Yeah, we've got progressively worse... that's why we had two playoff games last year.

Tell me... in 2004 when eight of the starters finished the season injured and we had only three starters left, how did that NOT prove that "Successful systems without superior players CAN exist".

Fred Smoot is suddenly worth the contract that minnesota gave him?



Vikes fans AND Vikes brass probably wouldn't even agree with such Hog Wash. Only a total homer or killjoy (s in this instance) could see Smoot as worthy of a top 10 CB contract... he's not even top 30... especially now.

Bowen a contributing reserve? Please. The dude was injured 24/7 and NEVER made a contribution off the bench except for in maybe 2 or 3 games while Williams was here. And even then, being that he was a BACK-UP, that would then be proof of Williams being ABLE to employ "Successful systems without superior players," as calling Bowen a superior player is not only a stretch but a complete fabrication.

I mean even though Pierce is a good player now... was he before he played in GW's system? If he was... nobody knew it.

Joe Salave'a - a league cast off, who starts - nobody else in the league thought he was worthy - hardly makes him a "superior player"

Cornelius Griffin - everybody said we overpaid and he's been the most important cog in our defense. is he considered a superior player now? he might be... but he wasn't when he got here... bEFORE being in GW's system.

How about Marcus Washington? Was he considered the stud he is now when we got him? Absolutely not.

How about Lemar Marshall.... the bench warmer for years that made good and cracked the lineup at MIC despite playing exclusively weak or strong before stepping in as the starter. Is this your idea of a superior player?

Or how about philip Daniels? Was he a stud when the bears let us pluck him from them? Hardly.

Maybe yu should start to think about the fact that you only THINK these guys are superior players because of the way THEY FIT INTO THE SYSTEM.


Personally, the only evidence I see of hubris is judging not only a season, but seemingly the last several, on the basis of just two football games.

Now I remember why reading your posts is a total waste of time and I skip over them...

[quote]b. Lloyd is really worth a 3rd round pick? Are you serious?

Yes. Are you one of the disgruntled 49er fans?[/quote]

Why would any 49er fans be disgruntled? As I recall we have a win and things are looking good. Stats don't lie. From what I read on this board there are deifnitely some disgruntled skins fans. I don't blame them, they suck. Tell Boss Twat I said Hi

BossHog wrote:What a total load of garbage that post is.

Yeah, we've got progressively worse... that's why we had two playoff games last year.

Tell me... in 2004 when eight of the starters finished the season injured and we had only three starters left, how did that NOT prove that "Successful systems without superior players CAN exist".

Fred Smoot is suddenly worth the contract that minnesota gave him?



Vikes fans AND Vikes brass probably wouldn't even agree with such Hog Wash. Only a total homer or killjoy (s in this instance) could see Smoot as worthy of a top 10 CB contract... he's not even top 30... especially now.
S

Bowen a contributing reserve? Please. The dude was injured 24/7 and NEVER made a contribution off the bench except for in maybe 2 or 3 games while Williams was here. And even then, being that he was a BACK-UP, that would then be proof of Williams being ABLE to employ "Successful systems without superior players," as calling Bowen a superior player is not only a stretch but a complete fabrication.

I mean even though Pierce is a good player now... was he before he played in GW's system? If he was... nobody knew it.

Joe Salave'a - a league cast off, who starts - nobody else in the league thought he was worthy - hardly makes him a "superior player"

Cornelius Griffin - everybody said we overpaid and he's been the most important cog in our defense. is he considered a superior player now? he might be... but he wasn't when he got here... bEFORE being in GW's system.

How about Marcus Washington? Was he considered the stud he is now when we got him? Absolutely not.

How about Lemar Marshall.... the bench warmer for years that made good and cracked the lineup at MIC despite playing exclusively weak or strong before stepping in as the starter. Is this your idea of a superior player?

Or how about philip Daniels? Was he a stud when the bears let us pluck him from them? Hardly.

Maybe yu should start to think about the fact that you only THINK these guys are superior players because of the way THEY FIT INTO THE SYSTEM.


Personally, the only evidence I see of hubris is judging not only a season, but seemingly the last several, on the basis of just two football games.

Now I remember why reading your posts is a total waste of time and I skip over them...

We were the 2nd ranked team in the NFL on defense two seasons ago. Last year we dropped down considerably-- eighth or ninth I think.

We had higher quality backups the first year. Last year, we had depth problems at CB and linebacker.

If we still had Smoot, we would have beaten the Vikes and taken some of the Cowgirl points off the board. I remember some on the board praising Gibbs for being frugal and fair (a disciplinarian yet) when Pierce and Smooth walked over money. It was a silly move of hubris and has cost us dearly.

Pierce had already shown himself as a great player as a backup before he was moved up. I'm surprised you don't remember. Washington was coming into his when we got him, and Daniels didn't live up to his reputation here until the end of last season, when he finally contributed.
To think of him as a top player is a stretch, in the system or not.

Marshall is a good, not a superior player. He was before and he is now.
It's natural his stats improved when he shifted to MLB. Under Williams', his first year, he wasn't nearly as good as Washington or Pierce-- the reason being that Williams' system is not an equalizer.

Arrington is an example of an All-Pro linebacker who failed to survive Williams' system.

Bowen was an important player for us in Williams' first year. We also got effective play from some no name DE's and at least one corner who is no longer around.

How can you say that the defense hasn't gone backwards? It's all there in the stats. We have less talent now; hence, we are less effective.

Williams doesn't have a system that can continue to be as effective as it loses talent. That is sheer romanticism. I played LB through high school and college and know that you've got to contend with blockers before making a tackle, no matter the system. No system can help an LB who can't slip a block; no system can cover the creases in a zone if DBs lack speed and skill; and no system can turn Kenny Wright into Champ Bailey.


I admit my own hubris, but deny I'm making a judgement based on two games. My opinion is based on four exhibition game in which opposing offenses ran all over us, the first two games this year, and the fall off of production last year.

However, I do hope that you are right and I am wrong. I think our performance on D this year will be in the middle of the pack or worse.
If Brunell stays at the helm, we won't get to the middle of the pack.