The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

My choice is Mark Brunell, But our O-line isnt giving him time to pass, Our defense isnt stoping anyone on 3rd down, Our running game is hurting without Portis, and the penaltys are killing us

I can't think of a single super bowl champion that didn't have strong, consistent QB play. We seldom had that last year.

I can't agree that Brunell is "stupid" as alleged above, but he's breaking down. Gibbs won with 3 QBs, but none were over the hill. I think Brunell's really trying and hanging in there, but the body's not doing what the mind says anymore. He's still got skills as he showed last year, but again he faded at the end as he was injured.

The O line was a problem, but he couldn't get the job done when he had time either.

Redskin Don wrote:I can't think of a single super bowl champion that didn't have strong, consistent QB play. We seldom had that last year.

I presume you are talking about another team...right? Brunell threw the least amount of interseptions. He was one of the most accurate passers in the league. The only reason he did not make the Pro bowl is because they usually pick from the Super Bowl winning teams. Again...I'm not a Brunell fan I kept rooting for the under dog Ramsey and REALLY LIKE JASON but belive me we would have been just as bad with him. without any blocking he would probubly have thrown a few inter. Now I will give you this.....if an arguement is to be played out I would argue that the team is not looking at a SB run and should start Jason to learn the offense for next year, but 2 games out does not make a losing team. I belive we lost 5 and a row last year and came back from it. The team is simply not hitting on all cylinders. When this offense stops backfiring and the V-8 kicks in watch out. Saunders did the same with KC. Their first year was not their best. When this offense starts putting 30 points on the board then you will know that the team has the offense down. As far as Brunell ....no matter what we say you know Gibbs will do what he thinks is best. Gibbs was never let the fans dictate who he played. Heck I can remember thinking Schroeder could not scramble and Rypian was dummer then a box of rocks but they got the job done. I think our best (that I can remember) QB was Doug Williams and I say this because he could scramble, run, throw the long pass and used his brain. He was very smart and agile.

Unless the Skins are 0-15 Gibbs will not turn the ball to JC, hos loyalness to Brunell is sick

The only reason he did not make the Pro bowl is because they usually pick from the Super Bowl winning teams.

If there were only 5 other QBs in the league he wouldn't have gone to the pro bowl.

I think that we have played 2 bad games and need to get better productivity out of our offense. I think our Defense needs to also pick it up a little (they have not been bad) and stop allowing the 3rd and long conversions. I thought the Special Teams were greatly improved from week 1 but still need to get better coverage and better tackling.

I do not think that you can just say "this is because of Brunell!" I agree he has not been very good and I'm a little surprised at his seeming lack of providing a spark, but I think it would be a huge mistake to consider using either of the other 2 right now. Brunell did not lose these games and I think we would be 0 - 2 with anyone at QB the way we have been executing in all facets of the game.

I chose lack of a running game and am a little surprised that so many are pointing to the QB as the reason - His inadequate play and bad decisions on a lot of plays, both weeks, are not the biggest reason we are winless.



I will say that I think we will still win 10 games this season because we have a team that can do that, but I understand that we need to pick it up for that to happen. The Eagles and the Giants have stretches of games that are brutal - we will beat the pukes in DC and I am planning on being there.

I can't agree that Brunell is "stupid" as alleged above

His interception, a bad pass thrown into double coverage, was the turning point at, arguably, THE critical juncture of the game. That's a pass I'd maybe expect a rookie to throw. He threw them away all night long, but he decides he's going to try to thread the needle on that play? Sorry, but I'd have to file that one under the "stupid" column. He's a veteran QB who should've known better.

Ok are you saying the same thing about Bledso throwing a pass to T.O. that should have been picked off by Carlos and returned for a T.D.? How about Manning jr. with 5 int. yesterday? I guess they are dumb also right. They need to be replaced. Brunell threw one intr. get over it. He was flushed out of the pocket to his right several times which is the wrong way for the left hander to throw from causing balls to fall short. How about we max protect the left and run out of the pocket to the left? Lets stop the Brunell bashing. Just about every other post is about Brunell. How about picking on the OL for not blocking long enough or RB running into a pile of people instead of cutting back. How about Saunders for putting a RB on a DE for blocking detail. Yea that worked well all night.
One good note though...Sellers looked awsome!lol.

VRIEL1 wrote:Ok are you saying the same thing about Bledso throwing a pass to T.O. that should have been picked off by Carlos and returned for a T.D.? How about Manning jr. with 5 int. yesterday? I guess they are dumb also right.

Bledsoe won. Eli won. MB did not, and he's now 13-15 as a Redskins starter. What about that says "Super Bowl winning-QB" to you?

Throwing into double coverage - easily evident double coverage, no less - is not smart. Watch Carlos' almost-interception again. He made a great read and an even better break on the ball (which was thrown before the break). You're comparing apples and oranges.

I didn't put any b/c the answer is the whole coaching staff.

VRIEL1 wrote: Ok are you saying the same thing about Bledso throwing a pass to T.O. that should have been picked off by Carlos and returned for a T.D.? How about Manning jr. with 5 int. yesterday? I guess they are dumb also right. They need to be replaced.

these other qb's are a moot point.

Brunell threw one intr. get over it. He was flushed out of the pocket to his right several times which is the wrong way for the left hander to throw from causing balls to fall short.

which was a 'stupid' or 'dumb' decision for a vet who SHOULD know better, no?

How about Saunders for putting a RB on a DE for blocking detail. Yea that worked well all night.

isn't READING a defense pre snap part of the qb's job? why didn't he check out of it? if it was designed that way, it was probably a three step drop, in which case boonell held the ball WAY too long. saunders didn't take one snap.

hailskins666 wrote:

How about Saunders for putting a RB on a DE for blocking detail. Yea that worked well all night.

isn't READING a defense pre snap part of the qb's job? why didn't he check out of it? if it was designed that way, it was probably a three step drop, in which case boonell held the ball WAY too long. saunders didn't take one snap.

This was an area in which Portis was SEVERELY missed. I kept thinking, Portis woulda laid those guys out. Get well soon, CP.

I'm not comparing apples to oranges their both fruit. Yes bad read bad throw. Thats what you are talking about. Even the announcers last night said that Dallas was covering well. No matter where Brunell threw it you guys or gals would probubly be complaining about where he throws the ball. Maybe...just maybe because of the terrible blocking not giving Brunell enough time to throw "down field" was the issue or the blocking not allowing the WR to have enough time to get open. I still say he's our best chance unless we are all packing it in and looking to next season. The coaches need to roll Brunell out and give him a few more seconds. He had that last year. If you are saying his arm is not strong enough then do we need a QB who can throw longer than 70yrds as he did last season in Dallas? I might be off a few yrds.lol. Look all I'm saying is Gibbs knows this offense better then we do and he knows where the break downs are...so let him coach. Obviously if we were better coaches we would be their right.
Look at it this way "It's just a game." Yes I know their are high stakes money involved but for the most part it's not my money.lol. It's too expensive for me to go to. Yes I like to watch it and yes I get my underwear in a bunch knowing they are making so much money but it's still just a game. A bunch of grown men throwing a ball around. No need for us to hang someone for not doing his job.lol. Thats up to Snyder. We can watch and comisserate.lol.

VRIEL1 wrote:I'm not comparing apples to oranges their both fruit. Yes bad read bad throw. Thats what you are talking about. Even the announcers last night said that Dallas was covering well. No matter where Brunell threw it you guys or gals would probubly be complaining about where he throws the ball. Maybe...just maybe because of the terrible blocking not giving Brunell enough time to throw "down field" was the issue or the blocking not allowing the WR to have enough time to get open. I still say he's our best chance unless we are all packing it in and looking to next season. The coaches need to roll Brunell out and give him a few more seconds. He had that last year. If you are saying his arm is not strong enough then do we need a QB who can throw longer than 70yrds as he did last season in Dallas? I might be off a few yrds.lol. Look all I'm saying is Gibbs knows this offense better then we do and he knows where the break downs are...so let him coach. Obviously if we were better coaches we would be their right.
Look at it this way "It's just a game." Yes I know their are high stakes money involved but for the most part it's not my money.lol. It's too expensive for me to go to. Yes I like to watch it and yes I get my underwear in a bunch knowing they are making so much money but it's still just a game. A bunch of grown men throwing a ball around. No need for us to hang someone for not doing his job.lol. Thats up to Snyder. We can watch and comisserate.lol.

The Cowboys were covering well? I don't buy it. We have ey, Randle El, Moss, and Lloyd. Nobddy covers that well.

Missing in the above reasons for losing the Cowboys game was a choice for Redskins corners. Wright and Rumph are not NFL-caliber corners, and IMHO would not even make most teams. Wright was beaten severely several times and even if we had a good QB this game could have been lost throught their poor play.

Fortunately we can look forward to Springs coming back to remedy the cornerback situation. Portis will make Brunell look at least competent again, but Gibbs will have to replace Brunell to bring us back to playoff caliber, and I think and hope and pray that he will. We need mobility and a stronger arm at QB. If JC isn't ready, put Collins in there, his inexperience may cause problems but at least we'll have a chance.

Redskin Don wrote:I can't think of a single super bowl champion that didn't have strong, consistent QB play. We seldom had that last year.

Baltimore won with Trent Dilfer. They went an entire month without scoring an offensive TD!

Hailskins...I'm glad you know the drop count because I sure didn't on any of the plays. Which ones were 3, 5, or 7 drops? How many had the receiver in position at the 3,5,or 7 drop for Brunell to be so dumb as to not pass to them? To be honest with you I saw many 10 to 15 step drops because the Dallas D was pushing through the OL. Which is why we ended up 2-15 or 3-10 or more yrds. besides penalties. I can say I doubt Gibbs would have made the Hall of Fame had he listened to the fans.
I know I said it's just a game (and it is) I also know how the atmosphere is around DC when we lose. I will agree it's more then a game but if you simplify it it's just a game. We lost 2. I hope the offense gets better and the defense shores up its lines. hope they win the next because they need it.

Old-timer, I agree with you. They would be hard to cover but I don't think all of them were in on every play together and in a timing offense where you have to get the ball of at a certain time I didn't see the offense giving much time for Brunell to throw. Yes some plays he had all day but most of the time he didn't.
Alot also has to do with pushing the receiver off his route or breaking up the timeing at the line of scrimage. Dallas did an excellent job of disrupting our timing.

VRIEL1 wrote:Hailskins...I'm glad you know the drop count because I sure didn't on any of the plays. Which ones were 3, 5, or 7 drops? How many had the receiver in position at the 3,5,or 7 drop for Brunell to be so dumb as to not pass to them?

hold on, now. don't go putting words in my mouth. i said "if" it was designed that way, it was "probably" a three step drop. with the exception of spurrier, i don't think any coach would be dumb enough to put a back on an end for any other than the fact the ball is supposed to be gone quickly. but you never did answer either of the two other questions i posed.... isn't brunell supposed to read the defense pre snap? and if he sees a big mismatch like a back on an end, shouldn't he audible out, if the play isn't designed to get the ball out quick?

To be honest with you I saw many 10 to 15 step drops because the Dallas D was pushing through the OL. Which is why we ended up 2-15 or 3-10 or more yrds. besides penalties.

the line play wasn't stellar. but brunell did have 'some' time on a lot of plays. he just looked 'scared' the whole night.

I can say I doubt Gibbs would have made the Hall of Fame had he listened to the fans. I know I said it's just a game (and it is) I also know how the atmosphere is around DC when we lose. I will agree it's more then a game but if you simplify it it's just a game. We lost 2. I hope the offense gets better and the defense shores up its lines. hope they win the next because they need it.

agreed.

You know, I am getting sick of hearing this and that. This team is crap and the management is crap.....

Now that I got that off my chest.... Let's be real about this team. There is something that is missing somewhere and Joe Gibbs or anybody at Redskins Park ain't talking about it. Is it the coaching, is it the players???

I'm sick of hearing people talking about calm down it's only two games.... This team has yet to show us that they are capable of being consistent on offense. Last year is last year. We are living in "now". We got pro bowlers on the O-line, all this money in skilled positions and we can't score a touchdown on offense. Come on man....

Stop baby-ing this team and trying to be politically correct. Call it was it is, crap....

i think people are overlooking the play of our o-line..brunell had to throw before he wanted to all night.. they werent holding anyone...the only time that changed is when they were only rushing 3 and brunell had time to throw at the end of the game......

GibbSkins wrote:i think people are overlooking the play of our o-line..brunell had to throw before he wanted to all night.. they werent holding anyone...the only time that changed is when they were only rushing 3 and brunell had time to throw at the end of the game......

The offensive line was bad. But even when Brunell had time, he looked bad. You can't blame the offensive line for that lame duck jump ball that Williams intercepted.

However, assigning blame to just one person or unit is a mistake. The Redskins were bad on defense and even worse on offense - and I'm not sure if Brunell or the running game or the line had showed up that we would have won.