The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

there was no pressure on the QB, no pass coverage whatsoever.

I totally agree. What I dont understand is why people are so suprised by that. This all goes back to the HUGE mistake Gibbs and the coaches made when they didn't address our lack of cb depth in the offseason. Springs is awesome, but he is somewhat injury prone. After him our best corner is a second year guy who is talented but not ready to be a number 1. Cb depth was a problem last season and all that we did to address the problem was replace garbage (Harris) with garbage (Wright). Not only that, but we further hurt out pass defense by bringing in Archuletta for Clark. Instead of throwing money at Archuletta perhaps we should've brought in some more cb's. Instead we get Rumph, who wasn't good enough to play fpr the pathetic 49ers. Having a secondary like we did tonight hampered Williams' ability to blitz and it's pretty evident that we cant pressure the qb without blitzing. As for Carter, he has had 1 good season in 5 NFL seasons so I dont know why people expect him to make a big difference in terms of rushing the passer.

SkinzCanes wrote:

there was no pressure on the QB, no pass coverage whatsoever.

I totally agree. What I dont understand is why people are so suprised by that. This all goes back to the HUGE mistake Gibbs and the coaches made when they didn't address our lack of cb depth in the offseason. Springs is awesome, but he is somewhat injury prone. After him our best corner is a second year guy who is talented but not ready to be a number 1. Cb depth was a problem last season and all that we did to address the problem was replace garbage (Harris) with garbage (Wright). Not only that, but we further hurt out pass defense by bringing in Archuletta for Clark. Instead of throwing money at Archuletta perhaps we should've brought in some more cb's. Instead we get Rumph, who wasn't good enough to play fpr the pathetic 49ers. Having a secondary like we did tonight hampered Williams' ability to blitz and it's pretty evident that we cant pressure the qb without blitzing.

yes, yes yes. although if walt harris was garbage, then i would say kenny wright is at least rotting garbage. there is no question we got WORSE in secondary depth in the offseason, and that was my biggest concern coming into this year. we basically have no chance at all of being a good team unless these fools can somehow magically become a lot better very very quickly.

SkinzCanes wrote:

there was no pressure on the QB, no pass coverage whatsoever.

I totally agree. What I dont understand is why people are so suprised by that. This all goes back to the HUGE mistake Gibbs and the coaches made when they didn't address our lack of cb depth in the offseason. Springs is awesome, but he is somewhat injury prone. After him our best corner is a second year guy who is talented but not ready to be a number 1. Cb depth was a problem last season and all that we did to address the problem was replace garbage (Harris) with garbage (Wright). Not only that, but we further hurt out pass defense by bringing in Archuletta for Clark. Instead of throwing money at Archuletta perhaps we should've brought in some more cb's. Instead we get Rumph, who wasn't good enough to play fpr the pathetic 49ers. Having a secondary like we did tonight hampered Williams' ability to blitz and it's pretty evident that we cant pressure the qb without blitzing. As for Carter, he has had 1 good season in 5 NFL seasons so I dont know why people expect him to make a big difference in terms of rushing the passer.

wait I thought it was the offense that lost us the game, u said that in a reply to one of my posts, well you implied it. If I mis read this than let me know. "And when our offense can't get anything done and keeps putting our D on the field they get tired that way also."

wait I thought it was the offense that lost us the game, u said that in a reply to one of my posts, well you implied it. If I mis read this than let me know. "And when our offense can't get anything done and keeps putting our D on the field they get tired that way also."

Our offense did lose us the game. The post that you referenced was a response to people being surprised that we struggled somewhat on defense. I'm sorry but anytime you only score 16 points against an average defense then your offense is letting the team down. My reference to the D was mostly my opinion that our defense isn't going to be as good as some people think it will be. Still at least a top 15 defense and most likely a top 10 D, but people expecting a top 5 defense are dreaming. There is a serious lack of depth there and there are some holes for other teams to exploit. If you want me to get specific about why we lost, my opinion is that we lost because of the kicking game (duh), but it shouldn't have come down to that. The main reason was the lack of a passing game. It was obvious from the start of the game that the Vikings didn't respect Brunell's arm. Just look at where their safeties were playing. Their defenders were close to the line of scrimmage the entire game and as a result we couldn't run the ball or pass protect. I can't remember who made this point in another thread, but that poster said that by not threatening the Vikes deep we basically allowed them to go after Brunell because they didn't have to worry about us burning them. Until we get the downfield passing game going these are the types of offensive perfromances that we can expect.

Goodness dude, they only scored 16 points. How many points do you expect this defense to hold teams to every week...? Especially with our offense not eating time up and letting the guys catch their breath.

The only reason they socred only 19 points was due to the fact that they had multiple 1st half penalties that stalled drives and Williamson missed a couple of key catches. They could have easily put up more points if not for shooting themselves in the foot a few times.

skinsfanno9 wrote:We knew it would take 4-5 weeks for our Offense to show up. We didn't anticipate that the Defense would take a vacation. Maybe its just that Springs is out, but wow, Johnson looked like Tom Brady back there. I think I even caught him reading the paper on a couple of those passes while waiting for the play to develop.

I don't think it was so much that it was our defense that let us down, but the fact that we didn't put the ball in the endzone when we got into the redzone. I also question some of the play calling in the 4th quarter. If our offense played in the second half like they did in the first half, we would have won.

John Manfreda wrote:I would like to see time of possesion stats, it doesn't matter if they don't give up points but if the offense moves the ball and keeps the clock running that tires out the D and big plays happen at the end of the game, just like this one.

I looked at that number earlier - it was 31:XX minutes to 28:XX minutes, Vikings favor (like the score). Minn. won time of possession, but it was fairly close. The defense had some breakdowns, but wasn't outright awful either, so I don't blame them entirely. Seems like all parts of the team pitched in together to earn this loss, but I think the passing game was the weakest link. The rushing game was actually pretty fair - not great, but fair. We actually topped Minn. in both total rushing yards (103) and per carry average (4.1). It was again the passing game which did not do enough.

1fan4ramsey wrote:Their offense came up HUGE on 3rd downs

And our defense let us down on their 3rd downs. I think some in the secondary need to go back to tackling 101. To many missed tackles that resulted in 1st downs.

The defense was terrible, the only reason they didn't didn't give up at least 27 was because Minniesota couldn't hold on to the ball (on the extra point, and the long pass)... they couldn't generate a rush even when they had them in 3rd and long... they just couldn't get the Vikings off the field... our "big" offseason acquisitions came from the worst defenses in the NFL, both of which will be better without them... If I had to start a new defense, I don't know if I'd have to keep anybody but Sean Taylor and Marcus Washington... let's quit defending them, they stunk...

They killed us on 3rd downs, Everytime i thought we would hold they got a 1st down

patjam77 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Goodness dude, they only scored 16 points. How many points do you expect this defense to hold teams to every week...? Especially with our offense not eating time up and letting the guys catch their breath.

They held that team to a beatable score, our offense and kicker failed to take advantage.

yes they held them to 19 points...BUT NO WAY THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD THAT MANY!! no pass rush, no secondary play. johnson picked them apart and the left side of their o-line THREW our guys around!!! mcintosh better play soon because holdman is junk!!

i'm also starting the ANDRE CARTER stinks bandwagon. DId anyne else see him out there? no?? CAUSE HE DID NOTHING!!!! watch that game over again and watch how slow he is coming off the ball!!!! those big feet of his are weighing him down!!!!!!!! ugh... when will they ever have a pass rush again??!!

The offense didn't help by leaving them out there. Betts is no Portis.

Andre was invisible, no doubt, but I'm going to give him more than one game to say he stinks. He stunk, one game so far.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

patjam77 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Goodness dude, they only scored 16 points. How many points do you expect this defense to hold teams to every week...? Especially with our offense not eating time up and letting the guys catch their breath.

They held that team to a beatable score, our offense and kicker failed to take advantage.

yes they held them to 19 points...BUT NO WAY THEY SHOULD HAVE HAD THAT MANY!! no pass rush, no secondary play. johnson picked them apart and the left side of their o-line THREW our guys around!!! mcintosh better play soon because holdman is junk!!

i'm also starting the ANDRE CARTER stinks bandwagon. DId anyne else see him out there? no?? CAUSE HE DID NOTHING!!!! watch that game over again and watch how slow he is coming off the ball!!!! those big feet of his are weighing him down!!!!!!!! ugh... when will they ever have a pass rush again??!!

The offense didn't help by leaving them out there. Betts is no Portis.

Andre was invisible, no doubt, but I'm going to give him more than one game to say he stinks. He stunk, one game so far.

granted the O should have scored more. BUT the D isn't as good as people thought and as for carter... look and see if you see him out there that often... he was standing on the sidelines.

There are many things we can look at as to why we lost the game, We could say the call on Taylor was bogus, or Moss should have held on to that pass in the endzone or you could point to either line and blame them. The reasons I see are all fixable in time, but the season has started and some of this should have been taken care of already.

The secondary got beat like a drum many times Monday night but all the blame can’t fall on them. Springs has been hurt for sometime now and neither Mike Rumph or Kenny Wright has shown they can do the job, then Prioleau went down on the opening kickoff. The D-line only had one sack, which didn’t help the DBs at all. Wynn was out, Daniels went down, Carter was a no show and no one else stepped up (Golston did his part though). Coverage and pressure go hand in hand but that WAS a bogus call on Taylor.

The fact is we are running a new offense and that side of the ball will take time, so the defense will have to do better early.

Speaking of the offense, where was it? The rumor was “only 2% of the playbook was used in preseason” so what did we get last night, another 2%? It was 3 trips to the redzone and only three FGs to show for it. Brandon Lloyd and Chris ey were non-factors, TJ Duckett didn’t play and Portis sat most of the first quarter. The Skins had more return yards than rush yards. It’s no wonder the Vikings converted so many 3 and longs (they were playing a long-winded defense).

Here is the main issue, as pointed out by Joe Gibbs weekly over the last two years. On this level everyone is pretty much equal and anyone can beat anybody else. He has always said that most games will be decided by 3 points or less and you just have to be in position to win. Well in the end the Skins were not in a spot to win, but they could have tied the game and played on. Gibbs knew it could come to that and he sent in John Hall, a guy that he has done everything to keep on the team. Gibbs didn’t bring in anyone to compete against Hall during the off-season, he figured since Frost couldn’t punt he keep him anyway to kick-off. After all of that Hall still couldn’t close the deal.

It’s a short week and we play That team in Texas, not going to call it a must win but we better leave the Lone Star State 1and 1

1niksder wrote:Gibbs didn’t bring in anyone to compete against Hall during the off-season

That continues to baffle me....

1niksder wrote: Coverage and pressure go hand in hand but that WAS a bogus call on Taylor.

No matter what Taylor does, he's got a target on his back and will be called for penalties that wouldn't otherwise be called.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

1niksder wrote:Gibbs didn’t bring in anyone to compete against Hall during the off-season

That continues to baffle me....

He knew there was no reason to bring anyone in to compete, he forgot he needed to bring in someone to REPLACE him

1niksder wrote:Speaking of the offense, where was it? The rumor was “only 2% of the playbook was used in preseason” so what did we get last night, another 2%?

The first drive of the game had me feeling better about our pathetic preseason offense, but later in the game, I really was questioning some of the play calling. With three deep receiving threats, WHERE WERE THE DOWNFIELD PASSES!?!? I was thinking with Moss, Randel El, and Lloyd at receiver, and Portis at RB, the defense would have to slack up on coverage, and this would really open up the offense, the same way it did back in the days of the Posse. Why did we not attack the Viking secondary!?!?

1niksder wrote:It’s a short week and we play That team in Texas, not going to call it a must win but we better leave the Lone Star State 1and 1

Maybe it's not a must-win, but it's darn close. 6 games until the bye week, and 4 are against playoff teams from last year. It's definitely gut-check time for this team. There aren't a lot of easy games on the schedule. Beating Dallas (some other people's preseason pick for the SB) in their own house will restore the 'skins to contender and not pretender status.

It seems like Washington and Taylor were the only ones out there on D that had any desire to stop the Vikings. Our CB's could not have played any worse, and Arch spent the entire game walking around looking confused. Sean can't do everything, it's just that simple.

I don't know what was going on with our offense. How can you not even attempt the deep ball with moss lloyd and randle el out there?

Burgandyandglory wrote:

1niksder wrote:Speaking of the offense, where was it? The rumor was “only 2% of the playbook was used in preseason” so what did we get last night, another 2%?

The first drive of the game had me feeling better about our pathetic preseason offense, but later in the game, I really was questioning some of the play calling. With three deep receiving threats, WHERE WERE THE DOWNFIELD PASSES!?!? I was thinking with Moss, Randel El, and Lloyd at receiver, and Portis at RB, the defense would have to slack up on coverage, and this would really open up the offense, the same way it did back in the days of the Posse. Why did we not attack the Viking secondary!?!?

This might be my naiveté speaking, but, perhaps, Joe was confident we could beat the Cruisers by not showing too much of the downfield explosion we're planning for Dallas. Heading into a rivalry game, he might have been wanting to hold his cards tighter to his chest, while the team continues to adapt to a new offense.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Burgandyandglory wrote:

1niksder wrote:Speaking of the offense, where was it? The rumor was “only 2% of the playbook was used in preseason” so what did we get last night, another 2%?

The first drive of the game had me feeling better about our pathetic preseason offense, but later in the game, I really was questioning some of the play calling. With three deep receiving threats, WHERE WERE THE DOWNFIELD PASSES!?!? I was thinking with Moss, Randel El, and Lloyd at receiver, and Portis at RB, the defense would have to slack up on coverage, and this would really open up the offense, the same way it did back in the days of the Posse. Why did we not attack the Viking secondary!?!?

This might be my naiveté speaking, but, perhaps, Joe was confident we could beat the Cruisers by not showing too much of the downfield explosion we're planning for Dallas. Heading into a rivalry game, he might have been wanting to hold his cards tighter to his chest, while the team continues to adapt to a new offense.

I actually think they didn't take the Vikings seriously ethier.

RayNAustin wrote:Big plans, big time offseason moves and the same ole 16 flipping points.

The defense hasn't played well all preseason, and they couldn't stop the run tonight.

I'm confused as to how much money the Redskins are going to spend on recievers only to throw the ball out of bounds.

Kicking? What Kicking? Kicking off to the 15 yard line???? High school ball.

I recall at least one kickoff that landed at the 20. And these are professionals? Sheesh.

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

Burgandyandglory wrote:

1niksder wrote:Speaking of the offense, where was it? The rumor was “only 2% of the playbook was used in preseason” so what did we get last night, another 2%?

The first drive of the game had me feeling better about our pathetic preseason offense, but later in the game, I really was questioning some of the play calling. With three deep receiving threats, WHERE WERE THE DOWNFIELD PASSES!?!? I was thinking with Moss, Randel El, and Lloyd at receiver, and Portis at RB, the defense would have to slack up on coverage, and this would really open up the offense, the same way it did back in the days of the Posse. Why did we not attack the Viking secondary!?!?

This might be my naiveté speaking, but, perhaps, Joe was confident we could beat the Cruisers by not showing too much of the downfield explosion we're planning for Dallas. Heading into a rivalry game, he might have been wanting to hold his cards tighter to his chest, while the team continues to adapt to a new offense.

One thing I've always admired about Gibbs is he was never arrogant enough to think his team could win any game just by showing up. Even if he was, which he's not, one would think a loss against a bad team (Raiders) last year would've cured that problem. I don't buy this 'don't show too much' stuff for the regular season.

I hate to break it to everyone since i live and die by this team but as long as Mark Brunell is our QB, this team will be nothing but mediocre. He should have retired 3 years ago. I think they basically know he cant win games for them and their pathetic game plan last night was to protect the 8 car......it scares me to think whats gonna happen when he actually has a really poor game. Sure its good to throw the ball away once or twice but 7 times? At least give a guy a chance to make a play and not let it be a fan in the second row!

jru37726 wrote:I hate to break it to everyone since i live and die by this team but as long as Mark Brunell is our QB, this team will be nothing but mediocre. He should have retired 3 years ago. I think they basically know he cant win games for them and their pathetic game plan last night was to protect the 8 car......it scares me to think whats gonna happen when he actually has a really poor game. Sure its good to throw the ball away once or twice but 7 times? At least give a guy a chance to make a play and not let it be a fan in the second row!

You're not breaking it to anyone - lots of people have been saying this for months. Campbell's just sitting there, NOT gaining experience.