The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

2. While letting Jason compete for the #2 spot, he's going to be getting the majority of reps because "Collins already knows the offense".

3. At the same time, Brunell will be getting fewer reps in order to "keep him healthy".

Gibbs says that Cambpell will get planety of snaps but I just dont see it. We are implementing a new offense with 2 new wideouts and a new tight end. The #1 qb is going to need as many snaps as possible to learn the new system and develop timing with the new receivers so I don't see where all of htese snaps for the backups are going to come from. Maybe Campbell will get plenty of snaps with the second string offense but that does the kid no good.

ive always said that jason wil come in in a couple of the early games late if we have a substantial lead in addition to preseason play. i think gibbs is gonna want to give him as many reps in the regular season as possible so he can be our starter next season. of course if he sucks in preseason im glad we picked up collins

Punu wrote:mmmm crow...

haha... You make a good point... I'm just so anxious to get started on the future... I want Jason to get his reps in now.

You know me, man. I gotta stick with Brunell. That being said, I am eager to see J.C. in action. I don't know much about him, so that peaks my interest. However, Coach Gibbs knows what he has in both QBs, and his assessment gives me the assurance that we are doing fine at QB.

Should J.C. outshine Mark in the preseason....

Bring on the Campbell era!!!

I think Gibbs is just saying the correct thing not to piss anybody off. They will all compete in mini camp and the preseason and the best person will get the job, more then likely it will be Brunell but for how long, I see Campbell comming in very early in the season and keeping his job.

Mark was the best quarterback on our roster last year, and in Gibbs' eyes nothing has changed that suggests Campbell or Collins is a legitimate usurper.

For all those that want Campbell to start so badly, just remember that if he actually outperforms Mark in the mini/training camps, preseason, and in practice. . .well, it won't be long before we see him. You can't start a player based on potential alone, and--when you are trying to win games--"potential" cannot even be the main factor in the decision.

This isn't Madden. Young players in the NFL are not good enough that you can win with them in the game (and do this, of course, while they progress 9 or 10 points during the season). If Campbell had been in the games last year he would have been eaten alive. Gibbs will play Campbell when he's ready.

You can't start a player based on potential alone, and--when you are trying to win games--"potential" cannot even be the main factor in the decision.

This isn't Madden. Young players in the NFL are not good enough that you can win with them in the game (and do this, of course, while they progress 9 or 10 points during the season). If Campbell had been in the games last year he would have been eaten alive. Gibbs will play Campbell when he's ready.

Um actually you can you can start a player on potential alone...just look at the Palmer situation in Cinci. He sat his first year and Kitna had a career year that season with numbers that compare favorably to Brunell's last year. But Lewis knew that the future was Palmer, not Kitna, and not wanting to delay Palmer's learning process he gave Palmer the starting job before training camp even started. Palmer was solid his first season as a starter and made the Pro Bowl this past season and led the Bengals to the playoffs for the first time in years. Players are put in based on potential all the time. You can't just play for this season, you have to play for the future as well.

Let's let Coach Gibbs call the shots on Brunell. Everyone was crying when we traded picks for Campbell now it looks like the plan is taking perfect shape.

Brunell can play well enough to lead us to a Superbowl victory, age aside, one guy doesn't do it all. We have the pieces in place for a great TEAM run at a Trophy.

It is not all on Brunell. We have a 1500 yard back, great receivers, a good O-Line and a defense that is poised to improve from an already steallar showing.

We can win on defense and have the offense manage the game and score some points.

Not only that, but we have Saunders heading it all up.

Why are we whining about Brunell already when we don't even know how this offense is going to work?

Brunell's numbers trailed off a bit, however we were riding Gut & Power on a 5 game win streak. Teams were doubling Moss and other than ey no one else was open.

I don't get the argument that Brunell doesn't spread the ball. He throws to the guys that are open. Moss and ey get open so they get the ball.

This year other people will be open and they will get the ball.

Punu wrote:What?! compete for #1! I love Mark, but can we really win a SB behind him?

yes i think we can now he has more weapons to throw to so i think we can win the super bowl with mark

The Hogster wrote:Let's let Coach Gibbs call the shots on Brunell. Everyone was crying when we traded picks for Campbell now it looks like the plan is taking perfect shape.

How's that? JC hasn't taken an actual NFL snap yet. We don't know a thing about him. I don't think it's likely, but if he's a bust, we're stuck with him and two old guys.

Brunell can play well enough to lead us to a Superbowl victory, age aside, one guy doesn't do it all. We have the pieces in place for a great TEAM run at a Trophy.

It is not all on Brunell. We have a 1500 yard back, great receivers, a good O-Line and a defense that is poised to improve from an already steallar showing.

We can win on defense and have the offense manage the game and score some points.

Hey, I agree the TEAM is solid - solid enough to support the kid (JC) if he struggles early on. The point is, it would be better to start the kid from the get-go, vs. bring him in late in the season when Brunell gets injured (which is when, not if).

If Campbell ends up as our 3rd string QB... then what a waste of draft picks. I don't believe that Gibbs and staff could have been that wrong about moving up to draft Campbell if they were not at least somewhat confident that he could perform and be our future.

Gibbs is just trying to say the right thing here. The only thing that Brunell can offer that Jason can't is experience. Jason can out perform Brunell in every other catagory. He can run faster, scramble better and has a much stronger and more accurate arm than Brunell. Campbell had a different offensive coordinator all 4 years at Auburn, meaning he had to learn a new offense every year. Jason is very intelligent and learns quickly.

Why do I say this.. because I have seen Campbell play quite a bit. Some of you may remember me saying this a while ago. After we drafted Campbell, I TIVO'ed all of Auburns games from the prior season. They replay all the SEC games in the off-season here in Florida. I was VERY impressed, as were all the commentators in every game. Seeing him play in a couple of preseason games last year with the 2nd and 3rd string teams does not give a accurate picture of this guys capabilities. He is a true stud. They say "don't knock it til' you've tried it." I say "don't knock him til' you've seen him."

Now, with that said, I like Brunell. He has done a fine job for us. I also feel quite comfortable that Gibbs and Saunders will make the right choice. The better man will obviously start. But IMO, playing Brunell will only postpone our future. I am pulling for Campbell, as that is evident. He will bring a new and better dynamic to the offense.

I don't get the argument that Brunell doesn't spread the ball. He throws to the guys that are open. Moss and ey get open so they get the ball.

It's hard to judge whether or not Brunell spreads the ball from last season because we didn't have any wide recievers other than Moss that were capable of producing or a tight end that could actually catch a ball that was thrown his way. However, one thing I noticed quite frequently was that Portis or one of the other backs was open but Brunell didn't seem to get all the way through his reads before throwing the ball away. Not sure if that's on Brunell, the protection, or the play calling but Porits was a pass catching threat for Denver and he was open quite a bit.

As Skinz fans, we are lucky to have this debate about our qbs. A strong mobile vet qb and a young qb who lead his college team to a undefeated season. Making VT d look soft. But if Brunel led us to the super bowl, there isn't any of you would want anyone but Brunell to qb the team in 2007.

SkinzCanes wrote:You can't just play for this season, you have to play for the future as well.

But you can't throw a season away on a struggling player when you've got a better QB and a team that can win now. Brunell gave us our best shot to win last year, so he played. Brunell might be injury prone but Gibbs believes that the man has at least another good season in him (and Gibbs has said before that he thinks Brunell might have 2-3 more good years in him).

We're winning games, we've got a solid team that keeps getting better, and Campbell is coming along nicely. I don't see any problems here (things actually look quite nice), but plenty of people in this thread think that there are big problems with how this team is being run right now.

Carson Palmer is a good example of a high draft pick that fit into a rebuilding team. Campbell wasn't drafted with the same expectations as Cincy had for Palmer and was a lower pick. We are not a team that is only starting to come together. We're not the same as Cincy was when they made the huge decision to go with Palmer. We're a playoff team and a contender now--rebuilding was 2 seasons ago and we haven't looked back yet.

My only point was that a lot of people in this thread immediately write Brunell off and think that it couldn't possibly hurt Campbell's development to put him in this early. In fact, many seem to believe that it's obvious that it would be better for the team to put Campbell in. Not only is that not obvious to me, it seems false.

We're winning games, we've got a solid team that keeps getting better, and Campbell is coming along nicely.

How is he coming along nicely? The only thing he's learning by sitting on the bench is how to carry a clipboard. There is only so much that a qb can learn sitting on the bench. I understand what you're saying about winning now but my point is that if you play Brunell this season, you're going to have to "rebuild" in a way the following year when Campbell takes over. I'd much rather have the kid go through his struggles this season and be ready to go for the forseebale future than postpone the inevitbale struggles. This is in no way meant to trash Brunell but I think that our qb situation is going to cause us some problems in the near future because of the age of Brunell and the inexperience and youth of out future qb.

How do the fortune tellers here now Jason is going to succeed? I dont want him to but he's still a huge question mark. Gibbs won with 3 QB's he's not scared to switch but if he's not comfortable than Im going with a 3 time SB winning coach and agree with him.

Brunell got us one game away from the SB last year and now yall act like he's regressed over the past 2 months. Get a grip.

Jason will play when its time for him to play.

Gibbs won with 3 QB's he's not scared to switch but if he's not comfortable than Im going with a 3 time SB winning coach and agree with him.

If Gibbs isn't afraid to switch then why was Brunell in there playing on 1 leg agaisnt Philly, Tampa, and Seattle?

SkinzCanes wrote:

Gibbs won with 3 QB's he's not scared to switch but if he's not comfortable than Im going with a 3 time SB winning coach and agree with him.

If Gibbs isn't afraid to switch then why was Brunell in there playing on 1 leg agaisnt Philly, Tampa, and Seattle?

Says something about Patrick, I suppose.

I want Campbell in there as much as anyone, but Mark Brunell can get us a Superbowl victory this season. If Mark stays healthy, Gibbs will keep going with him. I also have no doubt that Campbell will be ready when/if his number gets called. QBs are Gibbs specialty. Look at the guys we won Superbowls with people.

Mark can get us to the show and win it. Gibbs would love nothing more than to let Jason sit another year. If that happens, there will be no learning curve once he starts. He'll just come in and be good. If he has to come in this year, he may struggle a bit, but nothing major IMO. Roethlesburger(?) isn't a very good QB IMO, but he took Pittsburgh to a 15-1 record last year and won the Superbowl this year. That's a huge testament to his team, and our team is now better than Pittsburghs

We are going to be fine no matter who lines up at QB...

Brunell sucks. We could have won 12 or 13 games without brunell for sure. Ill take my shots for this comment but I dont care. He is a fumble waiting to happen. He will get his shot at starter but I am rooting for Campbell. Get a shot at no. 2 come on!!!

I hate pessimists. Especially those who cry and moan without any facts or information to support their nervous breakdown.

We were 2 games from the Superbowl. Added Al Saunders and Jerry Gray to our staff. Got a Pass Rushing DE. Signed not one but TWO good receivers. Added a proven TE. Added a hard hitting Safety.
We have a 6 foot 4 230 lb, mobile and accurate QB waiting in the wings, and the draft coming up.

ALL YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IS NEGATIVE CRAP???

Boooo to all of you....Brunell played well with one reciever last year. This year we have more weapons and an effecive scheme and all you people do is moan and whine about Brunell.

He shut your traps last year and he will do it again this year. If not, Campbell will prove why Gibbs was a genius for drafting him. What the heck is there to be crying and complaining about?

Gibbs is not going to play Campbell just because some anxious non-athlete wants to see Campbell give it a whirl. Get your popcorn ready for the pre-season, you will see him play then. If Brunell gets hurt, you'll see him play then. If not, next year.

Quit acting frantic...about 25 teams in the NFL would love to have our situation at QB.

The Hogster wrote:I hate pessimists. Especially those who cry and moan without any facts or information to support their nervous breakdown.

We were 2 games from the Superbowl. Added Al Saunders and Jerry Gray to our staff. Got a Pass Rushing DE. Signed not one but TWO good receivers. Added a proven TE. Added a hard hitting Safety.
We have a 6 foot 4 230 lb, mobile and accurate QB waiting in the wings, and the draft coming up.

ALL YOU HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IS NEGATIVE CRAP???

Boooo to all of you....Brunell played well with one reciever last year. This year we have more weapons and an effecive scheme and all you people do is moan and whine about Brunell.

He shut your traps last year and he will do it again this year. If not, Campbell will prove why Gibbs was a genius for drafting him. What the heck is there to be crying and complaining about?

Gibbs is not going to play Campbell just because some anxious non-athlete wants to see Campbell give it a whirl. Get your popcorn ready for the pre-season, you will see him play then. If Brunell gets hurt, you'll see him play then. If not, next year.

Quit acting frantic...about 25 teams in the NFL would love to have our situation at QB.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Mursilis wrote:If Jason has to earn his way up the ranks, Mark should have to earn the right to be the starter. Just saying he was #1 last year doesn't cut it, in my opinion. After all, Ramsey was clearly the better QB in '04, and look how quickly he was benched in '05. Being the incumbent then sure didn't win him any love.

He was given a chance during the preseason and look horrible. Who's fault is that?

Mursilis wrote:Problem is, the Super Bowl isn't played right now - it's played after a long, hard season of at least 18 games, during which Brunell's going to take a hit or two which is going to severely compromise his effectiveness. All the veteran experience in the world isn't going to help once he's dinged up and unable to throw with strength and accuracy anymore. If the last two seasons have proven anything, it's that Brunell struggles more as the season progresses.

Brunell didn't struggle one bit until a 300+ man hit his knee.

Can you guarantee that Campbell or Ramsey would not have been hobbled by that also?

Did our lack of a #2 WR not also effect our postseason play?

If we draft a safety via the draft should Sean Taylor fight for his spot?
What about Portis?
ey?
Would you have made that comment if it was any of them? I doubt it.

Here's the horrible point, Chris. If Campbell's no better than Collins, why in the name of all that's holy do we think we are ready for this reason. Collins is a guy you keep around to keep wr's warm during practive. If Campbell's not ready to step up to even compete at no.1, what's the truth about Campbell. A second year first round choice not good enough to even figure ahead of a career 3rd stringer, who hasn't really played in year? If true, this is a disaster, we never should have dumped Ramsey, and we have no viable backup for when Brunell goes down, which he has done for ten of the twelve years he has played. Either Gibbs is now playing loose with the truth, tricky with politics, or we are in deep silt.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Mursilis wrote:If Jason has to earn his way up the ranks, Mark should have to earn the right to be the starter. Just saying he was #1 last year doesn't cut it, in my opinion. After all, Ramsey was clearly the better QB in '04, and look how quickly he was benched in '05. Being the incumbent then sure didn't win him any love.

He was given a chance during the preseason and look horrible. Who's fault is that?

Mursilis wrote:Problem is, the Super Bowl isn't played right now - it's played after a long, hard season of at least 18 games, during which Brunell's going to take a hit or two which is going to severely compromise his effectiveness. All the veteran experience in the world isn't going to help once he's dinged up and unable to throw with strength and accuracy anymore. If the last two seasons have proven anything, it's that Brunell struggles more as the season progresses.

Brunell didn't struggle one bit until a 300+ man hit his knee.

Can you guarantee that Campbell or Ramsey would not have been hobbled by that also?

Did our lack of a #2 WR not also effect our postseason play?

If we draft a safety via the draft should Sean Taylor fight for his spot?
What about Portis?
ey?
Would you have made that comment if it was any of them? I doubt it.

Here's the horrible point, Chris. If Campbell's no better than Collins, why in the name of all that's holy do we think we are ready for this reason. Collins is a guy you keep around to keep wr's warm during practice. If Campbell's not ready to step up to even compete at no.1, what's the truth about Campbell. A second year first round choice not good enough to even figure ahead of a career 3rd stringer, who hasn't really played in year? If true, this is a disaster, we never should have dumped Ramsey, and we have no viable backup for when Brunell goes down, which he has done for ten of the twelve years he has played. Either Gibbs is now playing loose with the truth, tricky with politics, or we are in deep silt.

Mursilis wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

Mursilis wrote:If Jason has to earn his way up the ranks, Mark should have to earn the right to be the starter. Just saying he was #1 last year doesn't cut it, in my opinion. After all, Ramsey was clearly the better QB in '04, and look how quickly he was benched in '05. Being the incumbent then sure didn't win him any love.

He was given a chance during the preseason and look horrible. Who's fault is that?

Mursilis wrote:Problem is, the Super Bowl isn't played right now - it's played after a long, hard season of at least 18 games, during which Brunell's going to take a hit or two which is going to severely compromise his effectiveness. All the veteran experience in the world isn't going to help once he's dinged up and unable to throw with strength and accuracy anymore. If the last two seasons have proven anything, it's that Brunell struggles more as the season progresses.

Brunell didn't struggle one bit until a 300+ man hit his knee.

Can you guarantee that Campbell or Ramsey would not have been hobbled by that also?

Did our lack of a #2 WR not also effect our postseason play?

If we draft a safety via the draft should Sean Taylor fight for his spot?
What about Portis?
ey?
Would you have made that comment if it was any of them? I doubt it.

If Brunell was hurt, he should've sat. If he wasn't, then no excuse-making. And enough about the rest of the personnel - in '04, when they both played more than a half a game, Ramsey and Brunell had the same receivers, and Ramsey's numbers were clearly better. Finally, I'd hope that every player earns his spot every year. Williams certainly wasn't afraid to keep Lavar on the bench the past two years, even if he was a prior starter his first several years.

Totally true. Frankly, a lot of us fans of facing the facts, are becoming extremely fatigued with a-factual representations of Ramsey performances and so called failures. His stats are better than Brunell's as a Redskin... he's gained far more yards than Brunell in fewer games and, in the Gibbs era-- under identical conditions Brunell faced-- done a better job not turning the ball over.

Yes, you read correctly. Check it out yourself. You've let an imaginery world supersede the real one.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

SkinzCanes wrote:

Answer me this. Who do he have to throw two after Thanksgiving?

He ONLY had one WR. His degredation in stats are not 100% his fault. 6 game winning streak anyone?

Brunell wasn't throwing to Patten when he was healthy so not having Patten in the lineup isn't a very good excuse for Brunell's declining stats last year. And even when Patten played he was dropping balls all the time so it's not like defenses were keying on him anymore than they were on our other receivers.

I agree but defense could not afford to ignore him.

They ignored Thrash and Jacobs, as soon as Patten went out Santana was getting double and triple coverage.

Brunells decline was not all his fault.

His passes slowed down. Literally. They fell short. Literally. He was throwing out of bounds, too soon.